RE: Hive is imperfect anarchy, by design
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
I think there's very few people who would do that. Hive would not exist if it were not for the financial aspect. Why would anyone come here when the audience is tiny? I can't see it moving far from the current rewards system, so we have to work with what we have.
0
0
0.000
What if it was up to members to gift you for your post? But here's the exciting part: you would have the ability to take your gift back if you chose to do so within those seven days. That would also make EVERYONE responsible for fighting 'wrongdoing', not just HW. TBH I'd expect to see the scamming dropping off a fair bit because of the different way of being rewarded.
The next question would be: "So how do we stop plagiarism?" pretty much the same way we currently do. HW would drop a notification on them and blacklist them. It would be neat if HW had a "Sticky Note" ability, thus making their notification the first comment on a post so you would hardly be likely to miss it. That Blacklist should then be produced by HW every month in a post; that way, we can all see who's on it.
peakd could do things to help highlight troublemakers. There used to be a browser extension that would tell you if a user was on blacklists you had chosen to follow. I think that is useful as you may not realise their history when you see a post. We need to be informed to make judgements.
EXACTLY! Where is that extension? We need it NOW I might ask @good-karma if there's a way that could be implemented in @ecency
hive.blog has a blacklist feature, but it may not be working properly.
Here's another perspective to why it might be done... and I'm not going to say this often but because I respect you Steev I'm going to let the metaphorical cat out of the bag... just a little. 😺
There are the users (these are divided into content creators and content audience/consumers.) and then there is the investors.
Both of these types have completely different motives for the platform and depending on how long or short term they might be thinking the strategies may differ.
I think we understand the context of the users quite well because we fall squarely in that category for the most part. This, as it turns out, is what most people are predominately focused on when they think of the Hive Blockchain. It's the utility aspect of this blockchain that drew me here and I still love the fact that this is a social blockchain even though, currently, the "social" lately has been less than "social" in some places... if you know what I mean.
Let's move over to the perspective of the Hive Investor. These people are significantly less in number than the user count on Hive but some of us are both users and investors. (I fall into this category as well as the entrepreneur category but we won't talk about that... at least not in this comment.)
The investor thinks VERY DIFFERENTLY about the things they invest in and many of these folks wouldn't be here if they didn't think that Hive in some way (at some point) would out perform the Bitcoin they traded it for.
These wonderful people add value to the underlying asset that determines content value on the blockchain... But they are not so wonderful at waiting. (Watching Hive churn out value is like watching grass grow for them.)
They have ideas about when they would like to "turn a profit" and they don't think like an entrepreneur does. For example... I am looking to BUIDL on solid infrastructures and have a 20 year vision for this Blockchain.
THAT is a completely different way of thinking about the Hive Blockchain wouldn't you say?
So that brings me to the point of patience and vision.
Investors look to have their financial capital do the work for them... and they may disregard completely the value captured in the token in the form of social capital altogether. It just is not a priority to them. ROI is the priority and when compared to what they might have made by keeping their Bitcoin rather than investing it in the Hive Blockchain... Well! You get my point!
They are becoming very impatient in an already impatient world.
Conventionally if an investment doesn't perform quarterly many investors will write off the investment all together because they have been trained to do so and have performance requirements.
Here's the problem though...
This isn't your traditional investment.
They are stuck in this investment come hell or high water... it doesn't matter if they like it or not.
But they have an advantage.
They are the market makers... and if they lay aside their human qualities... you know! The ones that keep humans human? Like Ethics and Morals... They can in effect manipulate the price of Hive up and down at will and whim.
All they need to do is justify this action (be it actually good for the blockchain and it's other owners or not) because the code allows for this in granting the ability for the reward pool to be managed with raw exposer to the DV.
In this way they can move the price of everyone's Hive up or down however they want to... but at the expense of social capital on the blockchain. (The very foundation of why Hive is a utility.)
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what super powers this grants to certain individuals on this blockchain and how that will ultimately reorganize (not to mention Hive Think) the entire network around centralized and hidden entities with ulterior motives than what is beneficial to a user-friendly Hive Blockchain.
You know that there is a problem when more people are making money on the exchanges trading Hive back and forth than the people giving the blockchain it's usefulness via the reward pool.
These are serious things to consider in making an informed decision about what actually is and is not good for this blockchain.
This is, in my opinion, a once in a lifetime opportunity to reimagine and innovate new and better ways to human...
I for one am going to see it for what it is... and continue to actively work towards a more user-friendly and friendlier Hive Blockchain.
@Steevc, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts on this very important and fundamental aspect of our Blockchain.
I hope that it is received well and that you can see why I think this is so important to all of our success. I really do want to see people win on this blockchain and I don't think that winning by myself is winning at all... unlike maybe some people here.
These are the values of an entrepreneur. We want to bring the people who want to win along with us.
I would also like to say...
Thank you for this very interesting writeUP about what is happening on the blockchain. I really felt that you did a good job of framingUP the discussion and obviously many others did as well based on how many comments you have here!
I will be reading through all of the comments on your post and will be coming by with @Comet.Ranker (seeing as this is a Targeted Post) to Comment Rank them by order of contribution as well!
Obviously this is done with my time and that means the comments are ranked in order based on my opinion and, of course, others who have Comment Ranked before @Comet.Ranker arrived.
I hope that you are having a really wonderful and productive day!
All the best until we talk again,
@wil.metcalfe
P.S. I'm also going to tag @dickturpin, @melinda010100, @joerhino @ryzeonline @cynshineonline @samsmith1971, @wrestlingdesires and @dreemsteem here as I believe that what is being discussed here is of vital importance. We can't hide from the possibility that this is what is happening and there is so much at stake. We are all owners after all. Thank you everyone for your eye, ears, and thoughts! You are all truly the best of the best and I love and respect you all! -Wil
Thanks for the tag @wil.metcalfe A truly important post here from @steevc and equally important response from yourself. There is little for me to add other than to say that I support the views expressed here by the two of you. !LUV !PIZZA
<><
@wil.metcalfe, you've been given LUV from @samsmith1971.
Check the LUV in your H-E wallet. (1/3)
Thanks so much for the tag :) I'll have a read tonight, it sounds like the plot is thickening! I hope there are great things ahead for Hive, and all of us ☄️
!PIZZA !ALIVE
You Are Alive and have been rewarded with 0.1 ALIVE tokens from the We Are Alive Tribe, and it's paid for by the earnings on @alive.chat, swing by our daily chat any time you want.
Wil, you need to learn the value of succinctness. I see a text wall from you and it turns me off. I want opinions, but this looks like a post, not a comment. I did skim over it, but not sure where the actual point is. We obviously have different views of what Hive is and others will differ too. It's a framework that we can hang things on.
Peace
It's not a problem if you don't want to take the time to read down another level Steev. There's a book I would suggest, however, that I think it might be relevant.
Here it is:
And here's the link to where you can read more about this book (if it so interests you) and this is also the link to the image for sourcing purposes.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9778945-the-shallows
In the end I think you might do well to note that my thought out response is a form of intellectual respect. Although I can not ask for that same respect in return... I can say that I am a bit disappointed Steev.
Regardless
It's all good!
Thank you for your time. 🙏
In my evening I have had various things to do including writing my own post, responding to (briefer) comments by others, chilling out with some TV and doing the ironing. Time is at a premium. Now you want me to read some book! ;) It's not a matter of respect.
As I think I've said before I have little influence on where Hive goes and those who do probably will not see your comments here, so if you want to influence them you need to spend the effort where it will count. I have seen your comments elsewhere and I know that others are put off by the length. Few will want to read that much, so get the important points down and maybe link in a longer post if they want to know more of what you think. I am just trying to be helpful.
Peace.
Thanks for your advice. Personally... I don't care what those other people think Steve. I took the time to write you because I care about what you think. That is all.
It is a matter of intellectual respect... and seeing as you have given your advice I thought you might be open to reading some advice in the form of a book. 😉
I'm a busy fellow as well... But you had better believe it! I always make time to read and learn from all sorts of people... I want to avoid any bias so that's why I take the time to read ALL the comments (after reading the content.) as well. A comment is a form of respect, especially if it's intellectually sound, and it is really AMAZING what can be learned there!
Perhaps shorter and more concise is preferred... however to write-off something based on how much brain juice went into it... could this not lead to your own form of bias?
I can understand however that you have a lot going on like we all do... and I can understand not everyone is ready to drop it like it's hot and expend the brain juice it would take to reciprocate the effort such as I have made in the above comment...
But despite all that!
I'm confident that I have said something of value and so I stand by my words and how they have been expressed.
But I understand as well.
I save a lot of my deeper thinking, commenting, and composing for the early morning hours because of this very thing. The timing isn't always right for deep reading but I find that mornings are when I am at my best. 🙂
It's been good connecting with you.
I consider you one of the brighter minds here on Hive and I hope that you can see that I bare no ill will (pun intended! lol!) towards you in any way.
I hope that your enjoying your evening my friend!
@wil.metcalfe
@steevc 's post: 1311 words.
@wil.metcalfe 's comment: 1088 words.
A lil cheeky #FoodForThought ;) Much love, you two! 🙏
Hahahaha! Yep! #FoodForThought indeed! The fact that you took the time to read and recognize the value in both the content of @steevc's post as well as in my responding comment... This is equal to intellectual respect to me and for that I thank you Jay! 🙏
😁😉😇
Hive is not of vital importance to me. In fact, it means very little to me in the big scheme of things. My priority is to heal and become well again. My family is of vital importance, my physical and mental health, and my business is of vital importance. Hive does not even come close.
Your absolutely right Joe. At its essence this is indeed the correct way to view this subject. I admire your priorities my friend! 🙂
Thank you for sharing your perspective. We will talk soon. As you can see I have been busy tying loose ends here but soon I’ll have some more time to talk about the things that really matter. ✅
Great priorities, Joe. Did you end up watching the healing documentary? :) 🙏
Still working through it. Some good stuff. Offline aspects of my business have recently picked up and come to bare fruit so been preoccupied as of late. I will share details of that with you later on.
All good bro, psyched to hear whatever you have to share! #KeepRyzing :) 🙏
The biggest problem with Hive is it is entirely and utterly schizophrenic! It doesn't know what type of platform it is; is it Youtube? Is it Tumblr? is it, Podcast Alley? Or is it Wix? Then let's mix in; Is it a Trading site for Crypto? Is it a gaming site?
We have members who are only interested in the price of Hive and only blog about coins and tokens worth trading. We have Internet influencers who use Hive to dump their "My Time in Mauritius" youtube videos rehashed by editing in the Hive logo, basically "Milking the rewards pool", as another revenue stream given they've already been paid on Youtube!
And don't even get me started on "The Games". Splinterlands, for example, reminds me of the stories we used to see on the TV news about kids being sucked into "In-game purchases" and stealing their parent's credit cards to keep buying the upgrades. I saw a post from someone the other week saying how they had spent a fortune on cards and now stopped playing because they realised, luckily, they were losing too much money.
And then we have the piesta de resistance, people removing other peoples rewards for reasons ranging from Plagiarism to "Not liking you or your opinions."
It’s spot on... if these are growing pains then ok... but I’m beginning to think that this is a whole other kettle of fish... amounting to a very hostile and unfriendly “social” blockchain.
Can’t BUIDL here.
Can’t invite here.
So what’s the point?
Even posting content or commenting feels heavy as a posed to fun, light, and uplifting.
This isn’t going to end well if all of this nonsense continues and people don’t get their heads out of their arses. I’m afraid that by the time they do... it will be to late. This could very well be a rug pull in slow motion.
How else can you explain it?
And interestingly enough... HOW the DV is implemented is at its core.
I just read and reblogged my original introduce yourself posts and my very first post after that about what I was thinking about freedom and the potential of this idea of social on blockchain at the time... In hindsight those two posts are VERY interesting and maybe even telling.
Certainly they have given me pause to think about how and why my journey began here on Hive.
I found it helpful to listen to my words from the dusty past... they inform me as to what I need to do next and they confirm that I am making the right decisions as well.
Thanks for chipping in Peter.
I forgot to mention the growing phenomenon of Tribalism that's now growing more and more on Hive. "You're not in our gang!" People are getting downvoted for daring to post in communities on subjects that members of said communities feel are not relevant. Talk about Lack of social skills instead of maybe posting a comment:
"Hey, we really like having you in our 'Hiding things up your bum' community but creating posts about your dog's new speedboat isn't really relevant to the community. Would you please try and stick to the communities purpose of bum secrets. Thanks."
Folk are just hounded out on their ear instead.
image source
Your right. And this is also very bad for making Hive a better place. Communities should be a way to bring people together and yet here they are being used to eject people quicker than they come. Another bad sign indeed. Certainly not a place to invest your capital and BUIDL something of worth... like a real community.
I have often thought about why entire civilizations dried up and disappeared... why kingdoms fell... initially they build infrastructure that brought people together and kept them together like Roman Roads and Aqueducts. Those and the ability to freely trade value between each other brought people together as a sort of glue for society.
It’s when those positives get canceled out by negatives adding up to net negative that people abandon systems and ways of humans that might have worked in kinder times.
It’s very interesting but I think that we might be witnessing this phenomenon on Hive!
As I power down and turn my assets back into Bitcoin this will be very interesting to watch and note.
What kills a digital community has a lot of parallels in think. Human history repeats...
And I’m finding it fascinating indeed! 🤔
You going to be at Hive Feast Peter? I just told TheyCallMeDan I would go over on Twitter. Should be pretty interesting I think. I’m interested to get a feel for what those people are thinking about Hives current social direction. I wonder if the issues will be addressed or not. This will be telling...
I don't know we will have to see.
It is all those things and that's fine. Not everyone is a blogger or vlogger and they have other options to earn.
Online gaming is massive and Hive can have a slice of that. There are 350k accounts playing Splinterlands and the game is turning over serious money. Many will see it as an earning opportunity, but it's their choice. Just because it's not your thing does not make it illegitimate.
That's also okay. There is a finite reward pool and the community get to decide who gets some of it. People do try to get it by fraud or other underhand means. Differences of opinion will happen. The big accounts can wipe you out, but often you can wait for them to get bored if you stop winding them up.
Some people can't seem to understand what Hive was designed to be and how others use it. A few people having a bad experience does not mean it has failed.
This is why it will take forever to grow or find those elusive new users, especially from the Open Source community because each community is only concerned with itself and when people go on Twitter saying: "See! Facebook is down come and join Hive and get paid for what you write." and you get there and find it's a shedload of work and you have to work VERY hard to get anywhere or buy your way up the ladder buy spending fiat to buy Hive. And it seems to me that's what a lot of people do, buy in to the platform.
I would think you would support something that requires hard work to earn anything. I was grinding away for ages before I made much, but it can be social too. If you are just chasing money the returns can seem low, yet people are active on FB for no money.
I get that some are desperate for making anything, but you should have to add some value. They won't be able to afford to buy in, so they need to find an audience for what they do.
I saw someone do an 'urbex' (urban exploring) post that was a just series of pictures of the same view of the outside of a building. That is not exploring and just trying to cash in on something. There's loads of low effort posts fishing for votes, so you have to stand out. I may mention this in my #FollowFriday post later.
The thing is, you get a different experience on FB than Hive. The problem starts when you earn that very first $1.00, like it or not, there's an expectation of making $1.00 or more next time, and then you look at established accounts drawing $50 - $150 a time and think, "WTF? is this worth it?"
Hive is not really a social platform like FB nobody goes on Hive and says, "Hey Steve, what did you have for dinner last night?" But on FB, you could get a hundred or more responses to that question. On Hive, you're likely to get a DV for poor content. 🤣
Yes they are quite different. Some people do post their dinner/beer/walk/run on Hive though. Expectations are likely to be wrong though and money changes the equation a lot. You can chase the money, but I always tried to make it social. I would not have stuck around through the tough times if it wasn't fun. I actually get far more engagement on Hive than I've had on any blog I've done. I do think you tend to get out what you put in.
Looking at trending gives a very distorted view. It's all at the whims of the whales. Meanwhile others are making $1-10 per post from an engaged audience of small-fry.
I used FB to stay in touch with a few people, but I find it a crap user experience with all the ads. I'm not going to post really personal stuff on Hive as it will never have the privacy controls.
Horses for courses mate.
You get a shot at getting paid for the shit content though. Where else can you find some tips for posting what you're about to eat for dinner? 0.1$ on a comment is still 0.1$ to your wallet vs 1000 comments on facebook.
I think people miss out the part where it takes money to print more money. And while some people can complain they're not getting anywhere from just starting out here, it just speaks entitlement to try and ask for the benefits of being established without doing some growing in the community socially to get that point.
Giving free money doesn't make people stay. I'd rather be stingy with my votes than give social aids to people that would eat up their seeds instead of planting them and then be bothered why others are harvesting the fruits from the trees they planted.
People forget that while the money element is overt, the principles of social networking are still the same. And it's more about people liking you for being you and what you bring to the table at a social level than actually about your content in general. Most of the content here aren't my cup of tea but I like the person enough to offer some tips for a job well done. That's just it, a tip. But you get no loss of coins from your wallet and you earn some for yourself and the person you tipped on.
Well, that's what I advocated—doing away with the current voting system and implementing a gift (Donation) system.
I never seem to be able to explain myself well enough when it comes to Hive. The only other way I can think to say it: When I'm on Mastodon, I'm not really looking for anything. Sure it's nice to get a reply or even reblog, but when I'm on Hive, it's like "Game on!" Is my post worthy of some votes? Will it interest anyone? Have I covered this before? Have I copied anyone? Am I using the correct tags? Am I posting in the right communities? should I promote it?
Sometimes it's nice just to go on Mastodon and post meaningless shit. 🤣
Dbuzz. Or just post meaningless shit because some people would support meaningless shit out there.
There's a tipping feature already. If you use that, you belong to less than 1% of the users here. Most don't use it because it has psychological impact equated to actual loss of money right from their pockets even if they know they can just print more from curation.
The whole thing is just a tipping platform for sharing meaningless shit, interest or opinions. People want to get paid for their opinions and meaningless shit they share. Some don't think that's nice.
And we have organizers of comet.wanker to tip their own accounts for doing a good fucking job that justifies their branding.
For the love of the Pond Gods and call down the wrath of HW? They seem to dislike Dbuzz?
I have to say, even though I can't entirely agree with a few of the decisions, I actually have a lot of respect for HW (guiltyparties) mainly because they've always treated me with respect even when I've disagreed with them. Respect goes a long way in my book.
But isn't that precisely what buildawhale, minnowbooster, and all the other so-called leg-up groups are basically doing? See, I think this has more to do with face fitting than any deliberate act of wrongdoing. It was the same in the appeals channel when I was conversing with so-called wrongdoers. I'd watched the very same people who ripped me to shreds do EXACTLY the same thing prior to when I started, and to a certain extent, they still continue today, so that tells me it had fook all to do with rules and everything to do with muscling in on their perceived turf "Who the fuck is this newcomer coming in here acting like he's one of us? This is our group cheeky fucker." I know exactly what ran through the tiny minds; it was obvious to us grown-ups.It has other history leading up to that conclusion and a mix of turds that abuse nice things. I think of it as a project that has loop holes where admins refuse to implement some measures. It's like, if copy pasting links to your interests is what dbuzz is about (or part of the culture it tries to promote), then what's stopping multiple users or a user from creating multiple personalities and just doing the bare minimum of just that? On the surface level newcomers aren't expected to get it but a lot of the stuff that happens here have years long history which makes another level of complicated.
Those projects have retired afaik but the stake is still there. I can't speak for the people you refer and maybe even better to just actually tag them as this is a better place to record everything than discord. The mean people have seen plenty that immersing on the task too long can make one jaded. I can see the point some rainbow pony believers want to promote with their positivity drive but I have been on both sides of the spectrum to know both extremes are whacked.
Some people are pieces of shits that needed to be downvoted. Some people need to have their nice positive world actually grounded to the real thing. And some also need to take a chill pill with the antiabuse thing because not everyone commits stupid shit with full awareness. There's a learning curve to use Hive so some leniency could here and there wouldn't be that bad.
👍
I upvoted that emoji for the effort. I consider it meaningless shit that doesn't add value to the conversation but I upvoted it anyway for taking the effort to reply.
You said a mouthful @wil.metcalfe and I'm not sure there's much I can add, especially since I've shared on this and related topics many times in my few months on Hive, often in extremely detail, and most of them received hundreds of comments from Hivers.
- Freedom, Censorship, & You: The Ultimate Guide (Emma's Dilemma) Pt. 1
- What Kind Of Community Does Hive Want To Be?
- 9 Truths About Power, Abuse, & Downvotes (You'll Probably Hate)
- Plagiarism, Pitchforks, & Witch-Hunts... Hive-Style!
Anyone who's truly passionate about this topic would be wise to read and absorb the wisdom shared in these posts, because I personally believe a more enlightening body of work on the topic doesn't exist, at least on Hive.
The only thing I don't touch on here is 'code is law', because 'code' is changeable and always reflects the values and principles of the coders, so it's the coders/communities personal values that matter most.
I hope Hive blossoms beautifully, but only time will tell. 🙏