A long post about short-form content
I have been having some conversations with people lately about where Hive is headed. First of all we need some perspective.
@dragosroua wrote a post about the HIVE daily reward fund dropping in size. That is still a lot of money to give out each day.
Somehow I found this site that calculates what someone can earn through Instagram. It seems some people can make more than the Hive fund on one post! I should say that I do not use Instagram at all, so I know little about how it works.
So if you see a Hive post making $300 that is small beer to some people. A major influencer is probably not going to put in extra effort to make that and the potential audience is too small for them to be interested. Of course it could be interesting to someone who does not have enough of a following on the big platforms to qualify for any rewards. Anyone can make something on Hive if they get enough votes to cross the dust threshold (about 2c).
There has been a big spike recently in Hive accounts due to developments on @splinterlands, but only a fraction of those people will get into the social media side. A lot of the long-term Hivers will come from a blogging background and that may be the kind of content they like, but in the big wide world it is short posts on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and others that gets the most attention. Even videos have shrunk on platforms like TikTok, although Vine did not last. Many people want a quick hit of something that they can absorb in just a few seconds before liking and forwarding to friends.
So should Hive have a slice of that market? We have @dbuzz. but some people seem to have issues with that. I see their posts get downvoted to nothing. It may be partly about the people involved, but some also have an issue with short-form content getting big rewards. The D.Buzz app does have a default limit on rewards (1 HBD I think), but that can be overridden. If a hundred people really like a short post then does it not have some value?
There have been other attempts at similar things on the blockchain. @appics may have been at attempt at an Instagram clone. Their super cool team (matter of opinion) were at lots of events for 'the other blockchain' a few years back. They seem to have gone off with their own coin now. There have been some other Twitter-like apps that did not last. They may have been driven away by those who do not want Hive to go that way.
I have had people saying to me that they and their friends do not read or write blogs. They want short posts, videos and maybe photos. A selfie can get a lot of love elsewhere, but when Appics brought some pretty young ladies to the blockchain who posted selfies they were accused of being fake (or even robots!). It is not the content I would seek out, but there is demand for that sort of thing.
Do we really want to exclude massive sections of our potential audience? The Hive platform is agnostic to the type of content. It is basically just hosting blocks of text that can be displayed in various ways with the option to link in different media that has to be hosted somewhere. We can post whatever we like and the community gets to decide what it is worth. I do realise that people can use various means to profit from junk posts with little effort and I have been part of projects to deal with that for years. That is part of why we have downvotes. We should check for those who try to abuse the system and deal with them.
I have seen people put up a post, possibly a video, and then do a D.Buzz one to share a link to the main post. That has potential for double earning, but you can decline rewards. You have to think about how your actions are perceived, but if you have something to say then it should be possible to put it out there and potentially earn from it.
A while back there was much discussion about people removing rewards that were given be a certain rogue actor who was driven away for rampant self-votes with his high stake. Some people got caught in the cross-fire and did not get the big rewards they saw for a while. Those rewards are always just potential until payout time. One person said they deserved them due to the investment in art materials they made for the paintings they posted, but it is still up to the community to decide. You can always sell the painting to recover the cost.
Ultimately it is the big accounts that can kill off projects they do not like, but are they a representative audience? Should they restrict the type of content we can have here based on what they like?
Hive has nearly two million accounts with maybe around 13,000 using the social side. Those numbers are tiny compared to the major platforms where a mildly successful person could have more followers than we have accounts. If we want Hive to be a real success we need to be as inclusive as possible.
I have not seen any sign that big influencers have signed up to Hive and brought over thousands of loyal followers to support them. They are unlikely to for the reasons at the start of the post, but smaller scale creative people could be interested and what they want to post may not fit the classic blogging mould. I think we need them more than they need us.
Am I deluded? What do you think?
https://twitter.com/steevc/status/1437873331513012225
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Tokenized communities.
If we keep having a global reward pool, it's gonna continue these arbitrary virtual fist fights between different expressions.
People can create their own tokens that are less easily DV'd away and some already have. The freedom of Hive allows all sorts of things and smart people will find a way.
!BEER
Most community owners seem to be too shy to defend their community's concept (that means muting tags, muting accounts and DVing posts). They want to be nice to everyone - which totally beats the idea of building place with a face - as not everyone wants to be nice to them (and will add them as their 25th tag).
Given the small sizes of most communities people are loath to lose anyone. We still need to see how Hive can scale.
I understand them emotionally. I am the first to admit that a dollar not won is the same as a dollar lost.
There is a catch. Defending your face does not make you lose your current folks (worth hundred bucks each), you only "risk" not boarding misfits (worth a cent at best).
Exactly. I say ditch the reward pool and place the onus for reward on the individual community who can also define what is acceptable within that community and allow them to define their own system of governance.
Aye!
The problem is, the platform's best interest is to spread the distribution of Hive token inflation wide (contrary to interests of large stakeholders who want high curator cut).
Now,
and
... is not the same thing.
@steevc everything you wrote is fundamentally correct. And @enforcer48 gave an accurate and comprehensive answer on how to get away from this.
It seems to me that this is a historical heritage from the time of Steemit. During the formation of the platform, every user from every corner only heard "create unique content and you will be rewarded". Truly unique content often implies deep and specific topics. Which are not interesting to the mass user.
As a result, we got a fairly authentic social platform, with a certain type of content, for a limited number of users. Although, oddly enough, posts about food and cooking feel very good here. Obviously any social groups love food :)
It is possible to avoid a content conflict only by dividing the reward pool- through communities.
I don't think unique content has to be long, but some types do need longer posts, e.g. food, travel and in-depth articles. Hive could span everything from Twitter to Medium in my opinion.
There is no "unique content".
It's always the same stuff as you can see everywhere.
My drawings, my 3D scenes, my photos, my recipes, my "what I'm going to do tomorrow", my "hey, look what I did yesterday"... are equals to your posts.
And you can see this "unique stuff" on Hive, on facebook, on instagram....
So... what is really unique on Hive? The fact that people put a like and earn crypto.
No need sponsorship (Instagram) to make money, no need to have 90-60-90 body measures...and so on, no need to make a "business way" (Facebook).
But this "magic system" is basically wrong, because a content creator HERE ON THE GREAT SUPER HIVE TECHNOLOGY WORLD OF THE FUTURE, just put a like even without interaction.
Because the move is just to grab money from the system, in the system, for the system.
It's a mechanical process. You can do it using scripts. you can put "likes" or delegate someone and even when you're sleeping you still earn "money".
YOU (creating content) in this way, have NO VALUE.
There is more connection, more interaction in instagram and facebook and twitter.
more people saying shit, more people saying something good/bad/stupid/funny...
But at least THAT IS INTERACTION.
We on Hive can just see MILLIONS of dead communities. And the spike in onboarding is because of a game.
YOU (as a content creator) grow in your "potential" thanks to likes, and you earn more "money" day by day.
But your creation, your content, without comments.... have no value.
You can imagine the equation:
more likes=more people agree with me
more likes= more people likes the stuff I create every day
No. Not on Hive.
more likes=more "money" for everyone.
Are you a photographer? Are you a storyteller? Are you a master chef? Are you a scientist discovering dematerializing buffer for human teleport?
Who cares... I don't need to read it... I just vote.
You earn money, I earn money... we are both happy.
That's basically a bad thing, talking about "community"-"social"-"interaction".
Onboarding famous influencers can create a twist, imagining a more virtuous process of interaction in blogging.
But the "blind vote" still represent the very big limit.
My opinion?
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I dont think the community, or the whales are yet capable of understanding that with a global reward pool that covers absolutely all types of content, 1 type of content will always be perceived as superior and the other wont be able to compete.
Just have to have a famous father, make a sex tape, marry Kanye and have a family willing to shill everything for publicity - and you can make money on Instagram too! :D
It's still at the whims of the public. I have never watched any of her shows or other stuff. She is an extreme example, but shows what is possible. Meanwhile I can do what I do and earn something on Hive :)
!BEER
Yes extreme - most of those who earn really well are. Ronaldo is another who in 2019 earned 3x as much as he did from the field for a handful of posts.
The average "influencer" on Instagram is very similar to an Amway agent "working for themselves"
It seems 'influencer' is a career goal for a lot of people these days, but they have to share the available rewards, as we do on Hive. The extreme examples can set unrealistic expectations. I know a lot of people in that industry get stressed out by the pressure to always be putting out 'content'. I try not to get that way with Hive, but then I'm not able to give up the day job.
The "workless wealth crowd"
Instagram is a massive network marketing company that sells no products itself, but enables others. The accounts there are coathangers wearing coathangers, wearing more coathangers....
oh and the "public whims" are also engineered by algorithms remember. they push these people into not only the site, but all over the media too - with every instagram post becoming global news. What chance does a real person really have?
Yes, it's partly artificial, but the public need to buy into the brands. It's a big pyramid with not much room at the top. Who would have seen all this coming when the internet was young? Billions have a computer in their pocket and crave entertainment. I know my tastes are far from typical and I'm not the target audience for most of this stuff. Happily my kids do not seem too obsessed with it either.
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BEER.We just need the options to buy/add Community Tokens into the creation of a community and make default consumable Social Media Services available. The UI absolutely needs to support that at the same time. The question remains can these Token be layer2, should they be layer2?
Let's try an Example:
KK can be banned from Instagram or wherever and the Platform is rather enriching itself than paying her. The estimated income is with affiliate money and off-grid sales. If you see her making 10M on Social Media, it's rather 1M before taxes for her personal wealth status, or even less, depending on contractors.
How can Hive make that better? Easy. A self-created 'community' is immutable, belongs to the Creator/Influencer. The Influencer can emit an owner coin/token and take proposals for consumable social media services like add placements, featured posts, or shoutouts. If the Influencer services get consumed a lot, the price of the token should rise and a huge market cap can be created. I'd guess a KK could have a Token with a billion dollars - no sweat. That seems profitable to me. Most people will just underestimate what consumable social media services are and how a UI can transport them.
... Let me try an out-of-my-head list real quick. All these things should cost Token to be used once or for a short amount of time:
... maybe even BUY that post as an NFT like on Bitclout
Options are endless, but it has to be somewhat on autopilot and requiring only administrative action from the owner. People are lazy, sometimes stupid, and eager to not learn a damn thing they can't immediately use for profit in the very next moment. Especially little fame divas.
And I hate to break it like that but do we need short-form Content and long-form Content leveled for equal chances on HIVE rewards? No. We need consumable tribe-like communities with their own values systems to compete against each other over HIVE rewards. This is the way.
Soccer and rugby can compete for viewers but they cannot do that by having the players on the same pitch at the same time. Single ruleset is a platform for enough drama. Multiple rulesets can only create extra fights.
Have you ever been to a swimming pool that had designated pee and no-pee sections? Did it work well? I am not saying short form is bad but it is anything-goes by nature.
So then you would have to define what short (low energy) or long (large energy) does mean ultimately, which is impossible. An effort of creation is subjective since resources are never equally distributed nor used or even valued in the same way. Especially if we factor time into the equation. Finding consent on common values is never actaully achieved, it's just something people can try to do in a community.
I already shared my POV on effort being irrelevant for rewards.
If there are two platforms, no definition is necessary, you simply choose where you post.
In practice, half the people post same stuff on both because noone is going to downvote them for that.
this account is flagged due to his stupid personal downvote-crusade only against accounts on his personal blacklist, which are publishing in german language. Best regrads
Communities have lots of potential. I think they ought to be more about interests than just a token to get real engagement with posts. Your comment is a post in itself!
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I see the twitter-like posts benefit on Hive blockchain, but merely to be rewarded in the first through a second layer token. Besides that it can also capture Hive rewards, but not as the primary rewarding mechanisms. And also maybe we could have different posting properties to filter out in Hive posts from tweets, thus separating the content while keeping it on the same blockchain.
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We need ways to mix up the types of content whilst allowing people to see what they want to see. That may mean smarter filters. Using other tokens may be part of resolving the rewards issue.
!BEER
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I think that sites similar to Instagram or TikTok will finally start to gain popularity on hive. A few things must happen. Simply, more people must join the hive, because big prizes for nice selfies or funny anecdotes or videos will not come from "big" votes from a handful of people who have a lot of hive power. But the rewards for such posts will come from a very large number of people with little upvote value. Also, the community of Hive will have to accept that this kind of content can have value to many people.
I really want to see many more people on Hive to see how it scales. That will change the nature of it. There will be abuse that may be hard to deal with, but lots more people will be able to earn and I thought it was about empowerment of the masses.
!BEER
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BEER.This can change in few years down the line. Like Bitcoin, Hive's strongest asset is a community and we can make things happen when we collectively working together while strengthening the decentralization of the chain.
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Just for you to be aware, there's still missing blocks going on on your "witness".
I think it is time for people to stop playing the governmental game of divide and conquer. I feel there is room on Hive Block Chain for a lot of different and various content. Why we have to keep dividing people and dividing content down and down till there is nothing left is stupid.
If a person wants to share a selfie, and people don't like it then don't vote on it. If people want to write a really really bad poem and you do not like it then tell them why help them improve, and don't vote on it.
As we are divided into one camp or another we are destined to fail due to infighting.
People with power will use it, but Hive is a form of anarchy really. We may need some controls of behaviour that can actually damage the platform, but otherwise anything should be allowed.
!BEER
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BEER.You are not deluded. Hive's social side could use a lot of help.
I like it here. I've interacted with some really cool people about comic books and video games and making video games. There is lots of potential. Who doesn't like getting money for talking about things they love?
There are some major issues though. Some could be fixed eventually and are technical/ux. Like making barrier to entry and learning curve easier for 'normies'. Kim Kardashian probably couldn't make a Hive account or use it even if she wanted to.
But a huge problem is the top down control structure. I've almost quit entirely multiple times already because of some things I see whales or bots do to others. Luckily I have not been their target and I like to hope it is just rare isolated cases and most if not all deserved it. But I don't think it is that simple. Usually it is done with some misguided sense of protecting the platform or stopping bad actors from doing something. Most of the time it is petty nonsense and circle jerking millionaires pushing their ideas on lots of poor people that have different ideas.
DPoS blockchains in general have decentralization problems IMO. Having a social site where the overlords can flex their power does not help much in that regard. And that happens here on Hive. A handful of people control basically everything. This is not good for a social site that is trying to grow off the idea that it is decentralized and won't be censored like the big sites are.
But the only way that changes is if those same people change it, which isn't going to happen. I still think Hive is the best option we have for these kinds of things so... despite sounding sour above I have hope!
The big accounts are not going away and they may say they deserve a say as they infested heavily, but they should be flexible. As Hive grows their influence could decrease.
!BEER
... or early mined or bid botted heavily ... :)
There's that too, but we have to work with what we have.
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I have been meme-ing on "quality posts" for a while now but you put things into perspective quite well. We need side chains and other solutions for short form content and Hive will be there more for the resource credits
I think this is really interesting and I know we have discussed this quite a bit! I am a bit in the dark as I still have not been here this long. However to me and people joining the blogging is a small part of Hive. With options like 3 speak and Vimm and Dbuzz people who use those forms of social media can be part of Hive doing the things they already do. It is the same with all the great games, I have seen many people come to discords coming to Hive via SPL. However onboarding these people further is important if and I say if people want Hive to grow and develop into something bigger and more mainstream. If they are helped, educated they maybe will stick around but also become dedicated and responsible Hive users. Luckily as a general rule I have found people on Hive very kind and very helpful, we love the Hive and !PIZZA.
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Our conversations were part of what inspired this post. Hive needs to evolve to suit different demands, but does not have to be just one thing.
!BEER
I agree that is the beauty of it really!
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BEER.What an excellent and common sense post, Steve. How many users have we alienated through this aversion to short form media? Yet, I see many 'poor' posts garnering $100s. There is too much perceived correlation between length, quality and reward.
If people judged posts primarily on sincerity and integrity AND we dumped autovoting and curation trails, we would have a much purer allocation of rewards.
The main problem however, is that curation is so well rewarded. Some large stakeholders often don't care about what they're voting on, only that they get their 10 full upvotes a day done to maximise their returns.
Here is where we find a paradox. It's often the same people who care the most about their curation rewards who are the ones who are in disagreement with encouraging short-form content!
Another problem that is getting worse is the stigma attached to short-form content. Many people are scared to death to make short posts for fear of being muted or ignored by large stake holders. Many feel the need to write huge posts, but I see many posts 'doubled' to make them appear to have large word-counts by posting in two languages.
We need short-form. We need a full suite of social media tools and mostly, we need the support of the mighty and powerful to encourage users to use them!
Your comment is longer than some posts. It' should be quality that matters, but we know that's not always the case. More manual curation would help for sure.
!BEER
fighting blind vote...
could be a good point to find a balance between "manual curation" both for posts and for comments?
you earn "money" if you comment. if your "manual curation" exists as it does for the creator of the post.
blind votes are allowed just to "agreement" for a comment
could it be?
Not sure what you mean. You earn from curation if your vote is big enough. The system doesn't know what is manual.
"The system doesn't know what is manual."
But the system does know what is a comment.
So, the system could give rewards only to comments.
In this way you get rewards only by commenting.
If someone comments with "!!!" very easily can have downvotes.
Everyone is more likely to comment actively.
The vote (as a single "like") to a post, should not bring any reward (in this way you would fight the blind vote and communities are more active and alive, with people who talk).
That is my solution, thinking about the blind vote
I doubt you will see a major change in how rewards work. You need to tell developers and witnesses your ideas. We can earn in many ways, but some people will want to automate it. There have to be incentives to vote and curation rewards are part of that.
so again we'll talk about how little interaction exists in a community (hive blog) where everyone is minding their own business just because they're interested in profit and not social interaction.
Connecting and playing games doesn't increase the value of social.
they are just active connections that feed the system.
but of single entities that only look at their own gain.
again, there is more interaction and exchange of ideas inside facebook and twitter (less on instagram, but it is a different social, based on the pleasure of photography)
I have already commented on the high curation rewards but this allows me to explain myself further. No one cares for firing out 10 full upvotes to maximise curation because it does not work that way. Spreading your mana to 100 posts works as well. There are few ways to change your curation ROI. You can vote after the 24hr window closes but that is trivial to avoid. Basically, two major factors remain:
You can self-vote (circle-vote). The extra returns are technically author rewards but they were generated via curation.
You can vote on stuff that attracts downvotes and lose out.
Number (1) is easier with big votes but it is up to the community whether they care or not. I am going to discuss the non-cheating part here.
The funny dynamics is created by (2). If a large stakeholder is ready to downvote overrated stuff, your best play to maximise curation is to spread yourself thin not to stand out (the larger your account is, the more important).
Consequently, a single grumpy reward-disagreement oriented account can push large accounts to distribute rewards wide (which I already claimed to be positive). All it needs is to survive.
It has to be large enough to be relevant, it should not be used for posting (for reasons beyond getting zero author rewards) and it should spread their own upvotes thin to minimise DV damage from top accounts defending the status quo (not to waste too much earning potential on its large heap of HP). Lots of work but it is doable.
None of this fun game is longform vs shortform. Accounts acting on this division act based on opinions and preferences, rather than curation maximisation.
I like curation being well-rewarded 😁 and I like being able to give some of my voting power through auto-voting. I honestly don't have time to read lots of posts but there are accounts on Hive that I want to support and encourage to keep going because generally I like what they write.
But I agree, sometimes short form information, humour or beautiful photograph would be great and just what the doctor ordered.
The problem (for me) with short-form, if there is one, is the tendency to fragment discussion and debate and encourage pile-ons.
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BEER.I kind of felt the same way about DLike when it was around. I was on the fence about whether it was a decent platform or not and whether it deserved rewards. I think there has to be a place for shortform content here. Especially once the Leo project finally drops. People need to start thinking outside the box and not be so critical about what meets their notions of something worthy of an upvote.
I liked Dlike - it was a great way to share information that might have been of interest to followers without having to write (or think about) a long post.
Is LEO still looking at some kind of short form feature?
Yes, I believe they are. Who knows when it will happen though. They have a ton of irons in the fire.
Yes, we need to be broad-minded if we want to reach a wider audience. Let the wider community decide what has value. Deal with abuse as it happens.
The problem is, abuse is a fine line and very subjective. It's going to be a dance to stay on the right side of that line or determine what is.
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Well there's some stuff that is definitely abuse, e.g. plagiarism. The edge cases are trickier.
For sure!
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Hey @stevec - great post and insights. As you know I'm new to Hive but certainly the way it was introduced to me was that I could create the content I've been posting elsewhere here and (eventually) get rewarded for it. (of course having come in I'm grasping that it's so much more than that...)
As a content creator (and consumer for that matter) I much prefer Instagram to the other social networks - I think the format of being (originally anyway) foremost about great images is good, and encourages creativity and quality. Although it's obviously expanded a lot beyond that I still think the quality on it is higher than elsewhere. I'm more likely to engage on it and ultimately I think it's a lot more mainstream than blog posts or tweet length content.
So - a vote for me for short form content on hive, because in my view you can definitely have quality in short form. Could be Instagram like.. or maybe something new/not done before - wouldn't that be radical?!
As I said, I don't use Instagram, so I don't really know what it's like. I am pretty old-school when it comes to social media, but I have played around with a few over the year. Many did not last (Tsu, Multiply, Orkut, Google+...). One thing I liked about Hive was that it could not be killed as long as it has enough witnesses to run it.
I've not seen a real explanation of why Hive should not be for short-form. I don't think it can really about value as we know it earns elsewhere.
I thought this post might stir up some debate.
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I've always had this attitude too. If people like it and nobody is self voting or gaming the system I don't see what the problem is. Value is in the eye of the beholder or voter in this case.
Today on d.buzz somebody thanked me for posting a bit of Ethereum news. They learned something new about the project and also saw potential for an upside in price if the news was accurate. To that person, that post was very valuable. It may have created an opportunity for him or her also. The post was rewarded with a generous upvote.
I think the beauty of HIVE is that the blockchain can be used for so many different usecases. Gaming, blogging, micro-blogging, vlogging and I'm sure I'm leaving out some other uses I just can't think of at the moment.
We shouldn't be excluding anyone. Every new user that plays by the rules is good for all of us! It's good for traffic, it's good for voting rewards, it's good for onboarding new users! Those gamers enjoying Splinterlands might eventually check out dbuzz or Peakd and see what kind of content we have and vice versa.
We've created a HIVE ecosystem now. Everything begins to feed and nurture every other aspect of the project. More Splinterlands users, eventually should help to grow dbuzz, Peakd, and LeoFinance users.
The biggest objection I hear from "normies" when you try to bring them onboard is that "all their friends are on Facebook or Twitter". Lets face it, social media is funner with friends. However, if we begin to bring more people over, the friends follow!
I would love to see a G+ or Facebook style frontend added to HIVE. At that point, I think we have something for everyone!
I totally agree with this! I think so too. On top of that, I've seen a lot of bigger social accounts in the crypto space get chased away from HIVE because people didn't like what they were earning and started downvoting their content. I think that's really sad and a HUGE mistake. To add insult to injury that same account goes back to Twitter, YouTube or Facebook and tells their 50K to 100K + users, "Oh Hive was a mistake. If you start earning everyone will downvote you. There's no growth potential and you're censored through the voting system". Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.
This is not a good look for us at all!
With great power comes great responsibility. The voting system can be abused in rewards, censorship, and down voting. It's the other side of gaming the system. It's gaming the system to work against someone who's only fault was their post earned to much in somebody else's eyes.
I would love to see a safeguard built into the platform that limits the amount a person can downvote a single individual. If one whale can destroy a person and 100 other people love the content, that's a serious flaw that needs to be fixed. As long as this happens to people that aren't gaming the system and just looking for a friendly place to host content, we have a problem. Not to mention the other 100 users who will be sorely disappointed when the person leaves the platform for greener pastures.
You're not deluded. You hit the nail on the head. I love HIVE and the community but as we start to grow and more and more dapps come on board we need to be inclusive and also need a way to protect new users from this type of abuse.
I've always said, let the community decide. That's how the free market operates. Hating on peoples posts because someone thinks they earned to much is just wrong IMHO. It shouldn't be for any of us to decide what value the other 100 people saw in the post.
People get mad at me when I say this but it's the main reason I rarely downvote people. Unless it's blatant spam or someone is obviously gaming the system, I allow the community to decide what every post is worth. I don't think it's anybody's place to be the post rewards nazi and decide what someone should or shouldn't earn. I'll leave that up to the users and the people that voted for the content!
I've tried to use my downvotes for good. The system is designed so you can do less of them than upvotes, so in general the downvoters cannot dominate. It can be hard if a big account targets you, but if you are doing good then you may get support from others.
We need to get some people with big followings elsewhere on board and get them to encourage their fans to join up. Chasing them away is bad for us all. Meanwhile people favoured by the whales get loads even if they do nothing to publicise the platform.
Somehow we need to reach a tipping point where things really take off, but we can't seem to get there. As you say we should act where real harm is done, but not let differences of opinion over what has value wreck things.
I think 1 or 2 HBD on a dbuzz post is fair if people get value from it. It maybe still needs some work to improve the presentation. I've just not felt the need to use it.
!LUV
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@the-bitcoin-dood, you've been given LUV from @steevc.
Check the LUV in your H-E wallet. (2/3)
Lots of good points.
Some stuff is not clearcut, though.
Badmouthing those who do not pay ransom is the backbone of influencers' industry.
Some people might be mad at you for saying they can't/shouldn't vote on the stuff the other 100 people are allowed to.
this account is flagged due to his stupid personal crusade only against accounts on his personal blacklist, which are publishing in german language. Best regrads
The problem is that theres a reward pool we all share and just like the person that values your tweet or buzz likes it, the person that doesnt value it will downvote it.
Downvoting is a legitimate action that conveys your power to distribute the reward pool.
And because of that short form content will never in a million years pick up here.
Rewards need to be stripped from the base chain and moved to L2 where content forms can be separated and their tokens compete.
A lot of people are starting to say this. That makes sense and seems like the easiest way to fix this. It seems to be working out with the LEO platform too.
You are not deluded :)
You are reasonable as always.
Hive as a platform is not attractive enough for the masses.
Is that a curse or a bliss? You be the judge.
@tipu curate
Some want it to be an exclusive club, but that will limit what we can make. I think it was intended to empower the masses and I want to see if that can happen. More users will bring more spam and abuse, but we will have to develop the tools to deal with it. I am actually surprised the spam is not worse.
!BEER
You are right. It was imagined to be a safe haven for everybody. Eden on EOS is Dan's third try :)
Masses bring the noise. They bring life and action too. I guess Hive needs another earthquake ...
Ps: it looks like TipU is not working at the moment. Sorry.
I got the vote. Many thanks!
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BEER.Exactly. While rewards remain on the base layer that will never change.
The problem is content form competition. A tweet can never in a million years compete with a Hive long form post in a system where the same token is used to reward both.
Thats why to get fair competition between content forms and a chance for mass adoption Hive needs to remove rewards from base chain and have separate content tokenization for each content form.
And when will the community decide that a tweet is worth anything? Ill tell you.
NEVER.
Its not freedom to post however people wanted that gave birth to the juggernaut social media sites like twitter and Instagram. IT WAS THE RESTRICTIONS!
It was providing an equal playing ground for the most basic of users.
Where the biggest idiot was put on equal ground with the most brilliant person.
EVERYONE can write a tweet or post a picture. Very few people are even willing to read a 500 word post let alone capable of writing one.
So what are most going to use?
A place where everyone that gets any kind of attention is writing 500-1000 word posts
Or
A place where anyone can get attention with very little effort and everyone shares the same restrictions.
What Hive social media right now looks like is a system similar to the forums of Web 1.0 of late 90s and early 2000s.
We cant be inclusive because long form content will always be perceived as superior to short form. Thats a simple fact.
What we can do is change the design. We can design everything as such that we are inclusive.
That is the only way. And this is something people dont like talking about. I mean even you are trying to explain it to yourself why that is that masses dont want to come here.
Splinterlands brought in 100k new accounts and literally no one is using Hive social media sites.
I tend not to deal with absolutes. 'Never' implies a really long time and 'the community' is not one thing. 13,000 people is not 'no one', but it's not that great.
Twitter started as a way to post via SMS and turned into something else that lots of people wanted to use. Things change on the internet. I see plenty of Tweets that I think should earn something. People make me laugh or inform me and that is worth something.
But then I've been here 5 years and seen the platform struggle to get used. Favouring long-form content could be part of the problem and so people should be more open-minded.
All those new Splinterlands players are potential social users. Even 10% could double the active users if they got the right push. The game site could be encouraging them to post about the game or talk to others. Things often need a nudge, but it needs the right people do do that.
As I've said, the platform is neutral and it's up to people what happens next. Hive does not have to turn into a short-form platform. I'll keep blogging as I enjoy it.
I explained it, i feel fairly well what, in your words, "neutral" means in practice.
And why Neutral is not neutral at all.