Internet Having a Field Day With Peter Schiff

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https://cointelegraph.com/news/peter-schiff-lost-his-bitcoin-claims-owning-crypto-was-a-bad-idea

https://bitcoinist.com/peter-schiff-loses-access-to-bitcoin/

https://www.ccn.com/peter-schiffs-bitcoin-wallet-vanishing-act-is-the-most-boomer-thing-ever/

Ah, funny and ironic on so many levels. You'd think someone who constantly talks trash on Bitcoin wouldn't own any, but I guess not. If he is to believed, not only has he forgotten his password and not backed up the 12-word seed phrase, he also blames the error on technology (his phone) and makes the claim that, due to his personal experience, Bitcoin is now even more worthless than he originally claimed.

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KEK!

He's really going to blame his phone?
You can't make this stuff up.
You'd think someone that makes such bold claims would be more educated.

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The Irony!

It's pretty funny how ol' Schiffy thinks he can use this in an argument to 'prove' Bitcoin worthless. If he has truly lost the money, he's ironically made Bitcoin even more valuable by taking liquid supply off the market permanently. We should all be thanking him, I guess.

Thanks Petey!

Good luck convincing the world you aren't a dinosaur.



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32 comments
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This is one of those... well, all of us who work with cryptos have horror stories.

There are so many ways to lose access to your crypto.
And so, i feel bead for Schiff.

But, it really feels like Schiff is just computer phobic.
Why did he have bitcoin on a phone? (accept a small amount for immediate use)
Why didn't he have any backups? Backed up phone, backed up file, backed up seed phrases?
Why, why, why?

Its sad
And half of me thinks that he just has the caps-lock key on.

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Breaking news: Peter-Schiff only had $10 worth of Bitcoin.

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rotflol

That would be about right.... but i think he had more than that just from donations.

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Let's take his word for it and imagine it is the wallet's fault. How is this Bitcoin's fault?

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Because BTC depends on wallets being fault proof. If wallets aren't fault proof, BTC isn't either.

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Are you trying to say that wallet security is the responsibility of BTC, Mr. Schiff?
That's like blaming USD because you got jacked or lost your purse.
It just takes a different type of knowledge to handle.

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If hardware necessary to possess BTC is incapable of ironclad security, BTC is incapable of ironclad security, and that's a fact. Possession of gold, dollars, or some other valuable can be managed in a variety of ways, and if I get jacked because I do not use one that is ironclad, that's on me.

There is no mechanism whereby Schiff could have avoided this hardware fault, if he is reporting what happened accurately. What he reports is that the password ceased working. He didn't report losing the password.

If wallet passwords can just quit working, BTC is utterly unreliable. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. BTC is dependent on wallets to function. If wallets are unreliable, BTC is unreliable. This is a feature of BTC, just as traces of cocaine and feces are features of cash today.

It's like if when you put your money in a bank, the money may or may not be there when you go to draw it out. Were that the case with banks, you wouldn't use banks. In fact, that's exactly why I don't use banks. Citi flat stole my property. I have not had a bank account for ten years, and I will never put money in a bank again.

Thank God for cash.

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Mr. Schiff is making up the story and presents no evidence otherwise. He jumps to an illogical conclusion without showing us the faulty wallet and data and denying us the oppertunity to investigate.

Even worse, people like you who also don't seem to understand what BTC is back him up.

Bitcoin (an inanimate intangible cryptocurrency) is somehow responsible for any issue with all the programs designed to manipulate it.

Ok boomer!

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LOL Your ad hominem says nothing about me, a boomer in fact, but is telling about you, who also claims to know what happened to Schiff's wallet, while complaining you haven't been allowed any evidence. You also claim to know I am ignorant about BTC.

So, I'll leave you to your faith in your own speculations.

Here's the facts in the matter: Schiff claims to have lost his BTC because his wallet was corrupted. Every bit of evidence, as scanty as it is, comes from Schiff, and only from Schiff. Nothing you postulate about Schiff's history or motivations is evidentiary in the matter. Your speculation only reveals anything at all about you, the speculator. The same is true regarding anyone else speculating about what did or did not happen to Schiff's BTC that Schiff did not personally state did happen.

So, if Schiff is lying, the entire matter is boojum, and deserves the ignorance I deployed regarding Schiff prior to this twatfest. If he's not, you're full of shit, and BTC cannot be held securely because computer hardware can fail spontaneously, and this can divest HODLers of BTC at any time, with no recourse.

I happen to know that hardware can indeed spontaneously fail, as I have observed this. Knowing jack all about Schiff, I do not speculate regarding his veracity, but merely note that his story could potentially be factual, and if it's not, I don't care about it anyway.

That's it. Those are all the facts there are regarding Schiff, his BTC, and BTC's security, that derive from this story.

Have a nice day.

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As people said, if he backed up his passphrase by writing down his 12/24 words in order (most wallets warn you to do this, but anyone can create a wallet), it doesn't matter if his wallet failed because he can recreate it.

However, he didn't take this necessary measure and is dodging question

In otherwords he messed up.

You are defending him for some reason dispite obvious signs that he messed up and is being dishonest about this which raises questions about your character.

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(Edited)

I actually am not defending Schiff. I am simply certain that you, and many of us that have seen this story, are very interested in seeing BTC and crypto expand their markets quickly and by orders of magnitude, and see that criticising Schiff for suffering hardware issues - or what he and many, many boomers and crypto noobs see as a hardware issue - will cause those neophytes to feel every criticism, and relate to Schiff's situation.

That will cause them to act like rebellious teenagers, and dig in their heels against adopting cryptocurrencies. They will viscerally believe exactly that problem could happen to them if they had BTC, and every scathing comment regarding Schiff will make them feel they are the target.

That is really why I bothered to enter this discussion, and the more I learn about Schiff, the less I am interested in defending him. The actual issue is promoting financial freedom to folks yet malserved by legacy banksters, and deriding Schiff is the opposite of that IMHO.

My character is shady. Doubt away. I certainly continually seek to make amends for my mispent youth.

Also, I must confess I have never had BTC, and my only actual possession of crypto has been through Steem. So I did not understand the 12/24 word matter (and frankly, still don't. This is the actual first time I have heard of it, or that wallets could be recreated). I am shocked at my ignorance, and appreciate your bringing it to my attention. Given my nescience regarding the permutations that bears on this fault, I suspect I may have both misunderstood what I thought was simply writing down a password, and mispoken based on that.

That foolishness and factual fault still does not invalidate my position that folks as ignorant and stupid as I will not be attracted to BTC by this story, and many will identify with Schiff, having suffered data losses themselves. I don't think mocking Schiff helps BTC.

Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding regarding wallets being recreatable. I very much doubt most people that have not held BTC understand that distinction. Perhaps that particular information might enable some of the potential market for BTC to not be as discouraged from getting some if they understood they could rebuild their wallet if they only did do what Schiff did not, and that his error wasn't forgetting his password, but the key to recreating that wallet.

I didn't know that could be done because I have never had a BTC wallet - just like everyone else that has never had a wallet, and my misunderstanding of the distinction between 12/24 words and a password is certainly not exclusive to me. I bet almost none of the folks you want to adopt BTC that haven't yet know that difference, and think as did I that critics are accusing Schiff of forgetting his password - the exact language I have seen it phrased as.

Boomers don't know. It's a good idea to make that distinction the crux of the discussion, rather than mocking Schiff, who doesn't even matter.

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I'm glad you looked into what the issue is a little more. It was definitely no one's fault but his.

I agree it is also an issue with bitcoin, but the coin has both sides.

If you keep your bitcoin insured and in a bank (on an exchange like binance), they will protect it and even give it back if they are hacked (to a point). They will be responsible. However that is starting to look like just keeping normal cash in the bank. You gotta trust them.

If you keep bit coin in your own wallet, you need only trust yourself. However it is like keeping gold, if you lose it or someone steals it, you are on your own. The difference being it is not physical. This is also an afvantage for trading and exchange it.


I am interested in seeing BTC grow. However I've never been a crazy shilli g fomo person, I want to see legit and sustainable growth. This will require widespread adoptions, education and some form of agreement with governments.

In my mind it is just another tool.

We can debate how good it is and the principles behind it. But debating things likethe actual code require a lotnof knowledge and understanding. Its like discussing printing money vs earning it. One is based on an actual definitive procedure, the other is done deifferently by all.

Glad we could reach some kind of understanding.

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Funny how being irresponsible is instantly the technology’s fault lol

Something that important you write down!

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The real point he's making is that it's too difficult for the majority of people in the world to properly hold and secure bitcoin, which is true and which is definitely an issue at the moment.

At some point there will be ETFs and other similar products which will allow the average person to invest in bitcoin without being responsible for securing it (just like how most people invest in gold now), and then this issue will largely go away, but of course it does run counter to a lot of the ideology of bitcoin and the "proof of keys" movement.

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Sure, it's like Grandpa in the early 90's table-flip rage-quitting the Internet itself.

"HTTP://ww..." WHAT?!
This will never catch on!
Too confusing.

I don't really know anything about ETFs. I'm curious as to how they could be more simple than booting up a Coinbase account and linking it to a bank account or a credit card.

But yeah, looking into the past, I've had quite a few scares where I transferred crypto and the wait was so long I thought I might have lost the money forever. Even just that anxiety is a high cost to pay, and that's coming from a computer science major. The general population is going to have a heart attack over this stuff.

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I'm curious as to how they could be more simple than booting up a Coinbase account and linking it to a bank account or a credit card.

This is a lot harder than you might think for most people. I have had to help multiple people in my family do this. You have to upload photos of your ID documents, and take a selfie with them, and things like that, all of which are difficult and a big pain. On top of that, it will decline most credit cards in the US and sometimes will result in your credit card being shut off due to suspected fraudulent purchases, and linking a bank account often has issues and/or people don't want to put in their bank account info because they don't "trust it" (there is some irony here).

An ETF would make bitcoin available via the traditional means that most people already know how to use. You can buy it just like you would buy a stock or mutual fund through services like E*Trade, or Fidelity, or you can call up your financial advisor and they can handle it for you through the services that they already have set up and are familiar with.

An ETF will make a world of difference for ease of investment, but of course the ETF investors won't actually hold any of that bitcoin themselves so they lose out on the freedoms and advantages that can provide.

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yea man. let's get some more men in grey suits for every little problem.
the matrix will do it for ya! ;)

;)

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Ghosts in the machine will fuck those little grey men up.

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what ghosts?

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'Ghost in the Machine' is a pretty famous anime about self-aware AI spontaneously emerging from industrial supercomputers. In that regard, it was a bit of tongue in cheek, responding to your own jibe about 'little grey men'.

However, hardware faults can be considered similar to mutations in biological systems, and produce unpredictable and random signals and noise into digital information systems. The results of such signals are unpredictable, and usually contrary to whatever the system is devised to undertake. However, just like biological mutations, it's conceivable that such spontaneous random signals can also produce beneficial, or effects which aren't negative.

Frankly, Imma do more bartering. I don't find digital systems reliable, because of my decades of experience losing data from hard and soft ware problems, and neither do I trust legacy financial mechanisms. Banks are inveterate frauds IMHO, and have stolen $100k's from me before I quit using them.

Pretty much leaves barter.

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I love how you think and need to see that anime :) ^^

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It is too difficult, but I don't think ETFs are the answer.

I think the simplest path will be to create second layer, less-secure access keys like thumbprints and face-IDs. Exodus wallet does a good job of this.

Some people will lose their funds from not backing up keys, but that's life.

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It does not matter how many #btc he has.
I guess he thinks he does need to update his stuffs.
Last phrase is priceless, losing his password made #btc more valuable.


Posted via Steemleo | A Decentralized Community for Investors
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(Edited)

"...losing his password made #btc more valuable."

This is the problem with math, and looking at things from only a financial perspective. In fact, folks reading of this problem have their experience with data loss reinforced, and become less willing to adopt BTC - which reduces the market for it, and reduces price pressure.

BTC only has value as society adopts it. In truth, Schiff losing his BTC has reduced the price pressure on BTC, reducing it's value.

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I get what he's saying, but he definitely went about it like a guy that's just learned where the power button is on his computer.

How do you log into your bank account online if you forget your password?

Granted you can call your bank and get a password, but how secure is that if someone calls and pretends to be you?

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LOL I respect his ideas on economics well some of them but he is a gold bug and shills gold up to the wazoo because he owns gold and gold-selling companies.

I've seen many crypto interviews and debates where he gets obliterated and he really is a dinosaur whose success in the old system has blocked him off to see the possibility.

He doesn't give two shits about BTC he just using all his marketing to shill gold and this is just another gold shill

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(Edited)

Maybe, but speculating about his motivations and what really happened doesn't matter to folks that do not have current expertise in extant IT tech. It may not be apparent to you, but Boomers have lots of money, and have been experts in their fields, which is how they got the money.

The tech landscape has utterly revolutionized repeatedly over the last 40 years. I know, because I have been a part of that landscape during that time. There are a lot of people with data on 3.5" floppies they can't use, and that proves to them every time they want to see the photos or data stored on them that BTC isn't secure.

If they have a gold coin under a floor board, they have a damn good reason to want another one, rather than .2 BTC.

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(Edited)

Regardless of exactly what happened to Schiff, the point he makes is valid. Computers and that kind of technology aren't anti-fragile. Rather, they are insuperably fragile. Additionally, as the storage and communication technology constantly evolves, the protocols and standards incessantly change. You can't use 5.25" floppies anymore, so data you stored on them just doesn't exist for practical purposes. Won't be long until CDs are the same. Same with blockchain: it's as permanent as the protocols it uses. In other words, it's extremely transient.

Computers are enormously complex, and suffer problems and fatal flaws that aren't predictable or resolvable by the vast majority of folks. Things like HD crashes and electromigration have repeatedly cost me data, and back ups on floppies, zip drives, tapes and etc. are nothing more than coasters or paperweights. Component failures on boards effect bizarre and incomprehensible, unpredictable, and unresolvable data errors. It's entirely possible that some transistor or connection failed on his device and transmitted some utterly impossible to reproduce signal that corrupted his wallet. This actually has happened to people that have been involved with computer technology for a few decades almost ubiquitously. It's certainly believable and relatable to folks who've been there.

This is why I am not, and never have been, a BTC maximalist, but consider myself a BTC minimalist, which you may or may not recall from our prior discussions. Mocking Schiff because of his BTC contrarian posture is one thing. Calling him a dinosaur because of hardware failure is basically mocking the vast majority of humanity, who are no more competent to resolve such matters than is he. Cloud storage is utterly unacceptable to me, and while it may work and resolve the issue of hardware transcendence, it is simply handing information to surveillance actors, which Imma not do.

I will point out that I set up my first network in 1987 using CP/M and Osborne PCs. DOS was hardly even stolen by Microshaft at that time. Windows didn't exist, because Gates hadn't consulted with Macintosh yet, and hadn't had the opportunity to steal that yet. I'm not a newb, and have observed these tech issues for decades. This isn't simply a problem that people who use whale oil lamps and cook over wood fires suffer.

The fact is that you're a newb. The tech you find facile is going to be just as short-lived as 3.5" floppies, and then you're going to have to adapt. Boomers like me have repeatedly adapted for decades as the tech has transformed repeatedly, and we have seen and experienced data loss over and over. It is because of this long experience of data insecurity that we do not have confidence in data as money. You don't have that personal experience. Because you're a newb.

So, you may think it's ironic and funny that Schiff has made this problem public. Mocking him publicly for having that problem is jabbing the majority of potential crypto users in the eye who face fear of the same problem. Bad form, bad idea, and highly contrary to building comfort levels for the general public regarding adoption.

Do reconsider.

Thanks!

Edit: either you have misread his tweet, or you're calling him a liar.

"If he is to believed, not only has he forgotten his password and not backed up the 12-word seed phrase..."

What he actually reports is that his wallet corrupted his password. A million backups of the right password will not solve that problem. You may doubt that happened, which it is apparent you do. I don't, because I've had similar experiences over the 40 years in which I've been using computers. Cars today with computers can be hacked by flashing lights at the vehicle lights so that malware is transmitted to the computer onboard.

Hardware failure does happen, does input absolutely unknown and irreproducible signals, and does cause data loss and computer failure. While you doubt this is common, it has happened to me multiple times. I don't doubt his story, because he must have known in advance that the mockery that has erupted would and he made this public anyway.

It's highly unlikely that a financial professional would have failed to backup a password, because that's something you need to do competently in finance, and has literally nothing to do with computer technology.

You have a current degree in computer science. Since you got that degree researchers have been busily making it obsolete. The expertise I possessed in 1987 that enabled me to be one of the cutting edge technologists of the day has been rendered obsolete multiple times since then. 5.25" floppies were superseded by 3.5" floppies. Tape backups were superseded by Zip drives. I adapted. Floppies were superseded by CDs, and then DVDs. Zip drives were superseded by flash drives. I adapted.

Every single time I adapted, I lost data. Videotape was invented during my lifetime. I had a lot of video of my family growing up, all lost now, because there was no way to transfer those videos to DVDs by the time I lost access to VCRs. How many DVDs are laying around with Bday parties no one will ever watch because of the exact same problem?

While that storage tech was evolving, every other aspect of computer tech was doing the same thing. I took one class in computer programming in 1980, Programming in Basic. It is not insightful to claim I am a dinosaur because I can't program in Rust today. Basic was brand new once, and I was an early adopter.

You recently posted about not learning new JS to interface with Steem, and being happy that Dsteem was still extant.

Feel a bit cold-blooded yet? You should.

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Schiff is a professional Bitcoin basher.
He's literally attempting to make that his main brand.
He's profiting (or trying to) in a way that I find unacceptable.

I didn't need a five-page report about why my post is ageist and offensive.
I think it stands on its own, from tone to content.

You make some good points though.
Experience is valuable.

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I reckon you are being overly kind to me, which I do appreciate. Personally, I think my comment was ageist and offensive, which is regrettable, and it wasn't my intention to accuse you of being those things. It was my intention to convince you to not be those things, because I know you want BTC and crypto to deeply and instantly penetrate the broadest possible market for all the right reasons.

I wanted you to grasp how we dinosaurs see the problems with BTC, and that non-crypto boomers will identify with Schiff's claimed status, and the ridicule heaped on him. Putting folks in that position will instill in them greater resistance to crypto, which I also want to see in everyone's wallets and pockets to the greatest extent possible as quickly as can be done.

I prolly should have said it better, but as you certainly are aware, I dunno how to make brief pithy comments that get points across. I also don't know Schiff from Adam, and from all I've heard of him in the last day or two, am glad of that.

Most crypto folks just ignore that he didn't claim to forget his pass, but that the mechanism that accessed his BTC was somehow corrupted, which is something highly relatable to folks less familiar with computers than you and I, and damn familiar to me as well. Whether that is true or not, non computer folks are going to feel every barb and insult heaped on Schiff and strongly identify with how his specific report is being ignored and he is being accused of failing to secure his pass.

It's prolly too late for me to head that PR problem off anyway.

Thanks for not biting my head off.

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