$129 auto posts?

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I've been noticing automated daily posts rewards getting out of hand, with some of them going as high as $129. In the case of the $129 auto post, this author posts 4+ automated posts a day. Many of these auto posts exceed rewards of many legitimate authors.

These posts are created with a script initially, then run on auto pilot on a daily basis collecting considerable rewards on a daily basis with zero effort.

While I get you may like these posts, they shouldn't be pulling in $50-$130 in rewards for absolutely no effort. It is easy to create one of these posts and just set it on auto pilot. They are made primarily because they are easy and return considerably amount of rewards with zero effort.

I'm sure I missed a lot of the other automated posts, I just did a quick report on the ones I see show up on a regular basis.

Hours to payoutPending PayoutLink
92.23https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631314526996
1224.96https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-10-2021
140.67https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-11
1553.10https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-10092021
2320.07https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210910-en
2319.13https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210910-en
234.33https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210910-fr
231.44https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210910-fr
230.96https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-statistics-20210910-de
320.68https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-whangster79-learning-golf-for-first-time14323
332.44https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631400677748
3533.68https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-11-2021
3844.36https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-12
3954.38https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-11092021
430.79https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-sanjeevm-where-is-leo-heading18255
4725.43https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210911-en
4721.56https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210911-en
473.53https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210911-fr
472.84https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210911-fr
471.64https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-statistics-20210911-de
571.36https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631487137461
591.32https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-jeffjagoe-nlumel3wc2k-3478
6021.83https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-12-2021
6270.52https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-13
620.58https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-themarkymark-ask-me-anything-marky-edition-september-202170592
6389.34https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-12092021
6372.28https://peakd.com/@hive-motors/curation-report-21-hive-motors-community
6657.51https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/weekly-hive-stats-report-monday-september-13-2021
680.68https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-hive-127788-amazing-nature-contest-september-2021-3907e3cf977315056
690.95https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-tussar11-an-unforgettable-moment-spent-in-the-vicinity-of-n-2090
7121.91https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210912-en
7113.73https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210912-en
713.44https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210912-fr
713.16https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210912-fr
771.57https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-spotlights-2021-09-13
811.22https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631573367091
8315.77https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-13-2021
8745.66https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-13092021
9039.46https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/daily-hive-stats-report-tuesday-september-14-2021
9518.99https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210913-en
9511.57https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210913-en
953.24https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210913-fr
950.91https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210913-fr
950.73https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-statistics-20210913-de
97214.96https://peakd.com/@arcange/hiveautoclaim-update-hbdinterest
981.04https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-jeffjagoe-lsiby7nruuz-7987
1011.34https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-spotlights-2021-09-14
10518.01https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631659952887
10816.50https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-14-2021
1100.64https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-15
11147.92https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-14092021
1111.49https://peakd.com/@arcange/re-mickiewicz-qzgk8i
11341.17https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/daily-hive-stats-report-wednesday-september-15-2021
1140.96https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-monkedao-get-a-monke-join-the-monkedao-the-first-nft-dao-on20527
1150.76https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/re-sanjeevm-under-the-knife-1330
119128.60https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210914-en
11919.52https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210914-en
1193.94https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210914-fr
1190.94https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210914-fr
12033.94https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/weekly-report-how-much-hive-is-stored-on-the-exchanges-september-15-2021
1282.11https://peakd.com/@arcange/re-taskmaster4450le-qzhvv9
1291.16https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631746472219
13115.56https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-15-2021
1340.63https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-16
13550.27https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-15092021
13844.25https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/daily-hive-stats-report-thursday-september-16-2021
14322.02https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210915-en
14316.16https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210915-en
14314.93https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-finance-20210915-de
1433.06https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210915-fr
1431.59https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-finance-20210915-fr
1430.63https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-statistics-20210915-de
1490.77https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-spotlights-2021-09-16
15314.19https://peakd.com/@poshtoken/posh-1631832826989
15521.61https://peakd.com/@hive-data/daily-twitter-data-reports-as-of-september-16-2021
1580.71https://peakd.com/@ecency.stats/daily-activities-points-2021-09-17
15958.35https://peakd.com/@hivegc/hive-gaming-community-daily-curation-project-16092021
16134.60https://peakd.com/@penguinpablo/daily-hive-stats-report-friday-september-17-2021
16713.67https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-statistics-20210916-en
1678.36https://peakd.com/@arcange/hive-finance-20210916-en
1672.48https://peakd.com/@arcange-fr/hive-statistics-20210916-fr
1670.85https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-finance-20210916-de
1670.57https://peakd.com/@arcange-de/hive-statistics-20210916-de

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167 comments
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Very interesting. I guess I never realized a lot of these types of posts are scripted. It makes sense now, but I just never put two and two together :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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90% of news stories (cnn msnbc cbs) are simply selected and reposted and or repeated from the associated press or reuters or bloomburg.

That's why you tend to see the same subset of stories regardless of what news source you select.

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Thanks for sharing, I never thought about it. I guess they are interesting and informative but I agree with you that maybe they shouldn't have such a big portion of the rewards pool.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Aren't people free to spend their staked vote on whatever they like ?

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(Edited)

Yes.
I just meant that I'll be more mindful of that when casting my own votes. Should have stated that more clearly :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Now you have my attention! People are investing their time to make good content, but this scripted post is just cheating. 😑

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What specific rule do you believe they are breaking ?

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To think back they are not breaking any specific rule, they are just very smart people just exploiting the blockchain for reward, I envy them that I had to spend my time to make content and get some reward while they can just sit, wait for the reward and do other thing at the same time. 😅🙄

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I'm not sure "reward policing" makes much sense if you compare it to the real world.

I mean, for example, why is coca-cola one of the largest and most influential companies on the planet ?

Do they really "deserve" the money they make ?

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I'm not sure "reward policing" makes much sense if you compare it to the real world.

haha I know right!?

I mean, for example, why is coca-cola one of the largest and most influential companies on the planet ?

Its the same, they make a brilliant system (business plan etc etc) and had people work under them (just like a script to do automated task) .

Do they really "deserve" the money they make ?

This I cant really elaborate, this topic is very subjective and we had to see from every aspect. This debate is between fans vs haters LOL!

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No, it's between thinkers.

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No, it's between thinkers.

hi @leprechaun, sorry i am a bit confuse here but, is this on the reward policing or on the "deserved" part?

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I guess, both. You and logiczombie are thinkers :)

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They are not breaking any rule. But the visibilty here is very useful. Btw it is worth to create a script that shows payout on scripted dailies ;)

I think scripts are ok but abusing is wrong. Lets say you can combine French and English stats to the same post for example.

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I'm a huge fan of more rules.

I'm also a huge fan of UNIFORM ENFORCEMENT.

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Yes rules are the best as they make the need for more rules. Its magical

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Please explain the rules you would like us to follow.

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Vote for stuff that adds enough value to Hive to earn its rewards. That's obviously subjective, so use your subjective judgment. If you see rewards being paid in excess of value contributed, downvote. Again, subjective.

If you want the value of your Hive to go up, that is. If you want the value of your Hive to go down, don't bother with this.

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I am honored by your focus.

It seems like this general policy (police + politics) will lead to an inevitable echo-chamber effect.

Think about it.

There is a VERY GOOD REASON that hivewatchers and steemcleaners use DISCORD.

We should be building a decentralized version of DISCORD so all these HIVE groups can STOP USING DISCORD.

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'Policing' is a wrong conceptualization. It implies use of force and exercise of authority. In the context of Hive, the term is almost always used as way to spin and complain by people who don't like how others vote: If you like it, it is responsible downvoting, if you don't like it, it is harmful 'policing'.

Voting is not and never will be policing.

Vote up and down based on your subjective opinion of value to Hive and make the value of your Hive go up. For small payouts on comments and such, it hardly matters. Rewarding engagement helps Hive. But when large and repeated payouts drain a lot of rewards and don't do much to help Hive, that is a problem. Be part of the solution.

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What's the goal of downvoting ?

Isn't the goal to modify behavior ?

Isn't a downvote a penalty ?

Distributing penalties is the role of POLICE (or vigilantes).

If someone owns stake, the reward pool doesn't care if they use that stake to self-vote or to vote for your favorite posts.

The reward pool gets "drained" exactly the same in either case.

I LOVE RULES, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE.

I ALSO LOVE UNIFORM ENFORCEMENT.

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(Edited)

The effect is to reduce rewards on that payout. Which you should do if your opinion is that the rewards being paid out on that content are too high.

No need to read into it any more than that. It certainly isn't necessary for it to modify behavior to be worthwhile; the reduction in rewards, which certainly happens without needing to speculate, is enough. So no basis to say behavior is the goal. Reducing payout is the goal.

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Why does anyone care if the "payout" is "reduced" ?

What positive effect does this manifest ?

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(Edited)

Other payouts are increased, and those other ones are a better driver of Hive growth. Short term the reward pool is zero sum: Every milker or dumb payout costs every more-worthwhile payout some money. Long term the reward pool is positive sum: Rewards directed to the payouts which add the most value to Hive drive up the value of Hive and create even more reward payouts going forward.

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By chance, I found a post in my feed with a very large, one might say exorbitant payment and showed it to my wife. My wife looked at my last post, which was priced at 60 cents, and laughed a lot. I haven't seen my wife laugh for a long time. Well done, Hive blockchain users, you know how to cheer up serious people. Thank you very much for an interesting and relevant post, there is something to think about. I wish you all a good mood. 🙏

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It was very difficult for me to explain to my wife such a big difference in payment for publishing content. I do not like to count other people's money, so I will not draw conclusions.

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Tell your wife you are too brilliant for this platform

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Thank you very much for responding to my comment. I am a person with humor, so I said so as you advised me to do. Have a great weekend and great mood. 🙏

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maybe we as a community should set rules like maximum payouts for these kinds of posts, just an idea

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This is actually an interesting approach. Agree with this.

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This is actually a horrible idea... "What do you mean 'these kind of posts'?" I hear the bots shouting from the corners, being singled out for their lack of soul as opposed to their content. That's botist!!! LoL.

I'd be more inclined to support max payouts for all posts as opposed to a small minority.

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Standards. Not rules, standards. Go help enforce the standards if you believe in them with downvotes.

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Why not rules?, I really don't get it, so you're all expecting to enforce a disagreement in payouts with downvotes when clearly only whales would risk their asses to downvote automated posts from such big accounts?, Marky is pointing out that this doesn't happen in the practice. You can have very high standards but if this blockchain keeps behaving like the survival of the fittest then the only accounts that make that are the whales.

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downvotes are always well received and never start drama :)))

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When stats are worth more than user activity.

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Shouldn't rule out this is actually true.

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Well time is an interesting way to try to judge the value of a post, it's really not a concern.

How a post is created is of little interest to me, nor is the time spent on it.

Someone may edit a piece of art, or a boring blog post for hours, it doesn't make it more interesting.

I upvote some of the posts you have listed, because they present interesting or relevant information.

Just as I don't pay for music based on how long it took to write the song, but rather whether or not I want to listen to the song. Novels are printed for distribution with automation, the 3rd print editions still sell at the price the market will support, not on the effort it took to print them.

No matter how many hours a Janitor works he/she likely isn't going to make more than a well organized CEO.

Effort just isn't a factor.

Please see NFTs and other examples.

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These reports are mostly done to farm reports without any effort. While they may have valuable information, there is zero valuable effort.

So you are ok with someone writing one post (the script to auto create these "reports") then generating thousands of Hive while it runs on auto pilot while legitimate authors struggle to make $2?

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I upvote what I am interested in consuming. (reading)

I'm not sure I would consider many if any "Legitimate Authors" or even how that would be defined.

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I do vote also some of the stats posts, as whatsup says are useful and have valuable info, I get your point though, the earnings that generate may be excessive. Difficult issue to solve if there is something to be solved.

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It's not difficult at all, we have voting up and down to make our opinions on value clear.

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Yeah but no one or very few would downvote whales and risk their own status in the blockchain just for such a disagreement on the rewards, and it's IMO that more than a system abuse as the users Marky mentioned are in fact respected members of this community.

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If people care enough about what they consider to be "abuse" a very strong word, they have tools. I would categorize it more as a difference in opinion.

The integrity of the platform is based on those tools. In my experience, when something becomes enough of a problem people will act. :)

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So you are ok with someone writing one post (the script to auto create these "reports") then generating thousands of Hive while it runs on auto pilot while legitimate authors struggle to make $2?

So you are against someone writing a piece of software and selling it to people for $0.99 - 500? Yes, there is a gimp to everyone's Photoshop.... But.... This hits different when you shift perspective a bit no? I'm all for free and open source software, but we are on a capitalist finance based Blockchain... So....

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Clearly this went over your head.

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Seems to be pretty clear to me. Wondering what I seem to have clearly missed...

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Read the post again maybe :P

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There was a discussion on Steevc post about this.

This is something i feel will never change on Hive unfortunately.

When long form content (blogging) is considered the pinnacle of quality, no other content form can compete.

This isnt really about effort put in because a Hiver can write a 500 word blog post in 10 mins with ease, while someone from twitter or facebook will take an hour+, struggle, and it still wont be as good.
The Hiver will put in much less effort yet both pieces of content will appear on equal ground, more or less.

What It has always been about is: quantity of non repetitive text for most people when determining the "most valuable" content.

A post of a tweet length can never trend on Hive but a shitty badly written short story might.

And that will not change while all content forms share the same reward pool.

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We have the tools to deal with the differences of opinion. Upvotes and downvotes. Those who choose to use them can.

Regarding audience and users, I have no idea why we would want to limit ourselves to aspiring authors, when engagement and social networks is a much bigger audience, thus opportunity.

:) Funny how things never change. Price goes up or down, it's time to get mad about rewards again. lol

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We should not be discussing difference of opinion. Thats pointless.. We should discuss the fact that different content forms cannot coexist. 1 type always takes over and sets a standard. .
That set standard is what most people point to when they start downvoting.

Discussing opinions solves nothing in practice. Discussing design, might.

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Yeah, agree. The different tribes makes the curation more targeted, tho. I like that. But definitely still some holes. For some reason I think that this will get corrected with time as the supercurators will take care of each own tribe, etc. Hope it makes sense, is too late in here :P

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Discussing opinions solves nothing in practice.

Sometimes it results in consensus.

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This isnt really about effort put in because a Hiver can write a 500 word blog post in 10 mins with ease, while someone from twitter or facebook will take an hour+, struggle, and it still wont be as good.

GREAT POINT.

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Valid points. However: I spent a fair amount of brain time and physical time writing a thoughtful post about splinterlands. I think I added real value as specifically trading cards are my field of expertise in RL. However, due to the gazillion posts that appear from nowhere everyday, the main curators just didn't saw my post. So I got like 1 dollar out of it, while a random Venezuelan teen (No hate here, is the reality) posting a photo of the roasted chicken he is going to eat or a nerd that set up an auto post with formatted APY data of some sort some evening two years ago is getting $25 daily.
I totally understand @themarkymark 's concerns, as I can tell you I was totally discouraged from repeating the creative and intellectual process. Is just about incentives; I got better return elsewhere.

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Also a valid point, but you have 88 followers and mostly write short, pointed posts, which I don't see as an issue, but I can see how those looking for in depth data rich posts, might not have looked there.

Over time though, despite feeling discouraged from time to time, high quality writers tend to build an audience over time.

Thanks for your view!

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Yeah, understood. I mostly "buzz" on @dbuzz as the format suits me better as Im a heavy twitter user with 800+ quality followers; I mostly tweet about collecting, scarcity, finances and crypto. I guess that's why I found dbuzz better for me.
But yeah, will probably return to long post here and there as basically all writing compounds over time and it is nice to post it somewhere, anyways, haha

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I'm a huge fan of short form and I am not being critical of your short posts. I just meant it was different material when you posted your Splitnerlands post! Building an audience can fix this!

I hope we can get more support for short form here. As per the entire conversation, I am not a fan of making this a job... Engaging and relevant are way more important that word count! :) It isn't and should never be about effort.

Skill levels are not the same and results rarely in any natural market are based on effort.

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Yeah, we are definitely in the same page. Also, there is a new microblogging project in the works by the guys at @leofinance so I guess that the flow is going towards that.
Nice ideas, thanks! Followed.

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your best bet (starting out) is to find an account, or a couple accounts or a community that post stuff similar to the stuff you post and reply to their posts.

If you get some responses, keep it up.

If you get crickets, keep looking.

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That was a nice idea, thanks. I'm not actively looking for "hive success" tho as I have a decent job and tend to be quite swamped with it. But it was just venting the frustration, I guess, and Marky just hit the spot, haha.

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yeah i thought we were over this

lets build better front ends that just show the best posts not highest value payout

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Yeah I think the auto-voting thing should be stopped, if you want to earn rewards for curation of content, you should actually curate content. Or at least be forced to click vote by hand.

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I disagree, no other crypto requires you to spend 4-8+ hours a day to make 10% return at best. This has nothing to do with auto voting as well, this is purely community sactioned reward farming.

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Well no other crypto allows you to earn it by merely posting comments on a blog either, so we are all dealing with firsts here on HIVE as far as I know.

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So it means it a is a big gap in reward distribution system...is there way to control them ? ...recently, I asked an user to share the trick to get high value on a nonsense post..with few words and one pic...and my question was down voted...with no reason.....

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It's not what you know, it's who you know!

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You hit it right.... !

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I've been wondering about that too, even saw no words just a single picture . Maybe like those people say, A picture is worth a thousand words lol

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(Edited)

I already commented here, but I have a great idea!

Since people disagree on the value these posts bring to the platform...

MAYBE we could do a vote on it. Like the post could be open for a week and invested people with stake in the game could upvote it or downvote it.. After the post is open for a week, the Author gets the rewards of stake-based consensus!

That would be cool!
(you have stake you know what to do)

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Obviously you are being sarcastic, but the problem is people don't realize it, they drop $5, $10, $20 on the post, and all of a sudden we have $130 posts that have been autoposted. The point is to raise awareness.

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The problem is that we are asking voters to evaluate a post's value, but the only answers available are "more" and "less".

I'm not sure about the scalability or implementation complexity, but I think you should be able to include a threshold value in your upvote, eg. "this upvote counts until the post hits $20 and no more". Even if this is only available to power users, and most interfaces retain simple upvote/downvote UI.

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that would be a great idea (or should at least be discussed)

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My big issue here is why one user is posting identical posts in different languages. I will report this to Hivewatchers.
If the community disagree with rewards, the community must downvote. As always, much of the rewards come from autovotes, without which, I'm sure the posts wouldn't make as much attention grabbing reward.

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If the community disagree with rewards, the community must downvote.

The problem is they don't, and when they do, there are lots of tears.

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(Edited)

No one will downvote larger stakeholders, proof of stake creates the fear, but that's just how it is. If we had equal value downvotes, regardless of size of stake that removed a fixed percentage of a post's rewards, this would solve that problem and we could all downvote what we considered 'over-rewarded' content without fear of unequal retribution.

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Why should someone with 15 hp have the same downvote power as someone with 4M?

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(Edited)

Because wealth is not a suitable measurement of someone's ability to make rational judgement or to measure their true worth.
Downvotes are about ethics, morals and integrity. Upvotes are simply about generating reward so then size of stake is and should be important.

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Weath (stake) surely measures someone’s ability to invest in the platform and have say. Plus your idea would allow people like nog with 5000+ accounts and like 500hp to completely control the entire platform.

What you are proposing would be so maliciously abused the place will be a zoo.

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Good but then don't expect from the rest of the mortals to downvote any account above their HP. This is a structural problem and will keep like this while the HP of an user is the measure to judge if something is worth to be downvoted or not.

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Yes, let's give autobot armies nukes.... What could go wrong?!? * * Goes off to make 500 accounts to downvotes whales * * I see no problem here... LoL. The whales will never let that happen, it's too easy to manipulate.

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why one user is posting identical posts in different languages.

Because I care about people who are not English speakers/readers and who might not understand it correctly. Simple as that.

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Meh. If people want to use their stake to downvote these, cool. But I think that at least the ones by for instance @arcange and @penguinpablo provide valuable information that I’m happy to pay for.

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I did a post the other day about the value of short posts and auto-posts will be another area people will argue over. In some cases I see people self-vote these auto posts for some guaranteed income. That seems wrong to me, but then I think self-voting is bad generally. I know in some cases others want to support a project and voting up their posts (however they are created) is one way to do that.

You can only really make over $100 if some whales support what you do. We have the odd rogue whale, but I would hope the others spread their support and either look out for good content or follow trails they trust.

I see you or someone else adjusted some high rewards. I think that is fair enough when an account can make $20+ on daily auto posts.

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That seems wrong to me, but then I think self-voting is bad generally.

How is this (morally) different from purchasing a banner ad ?

If you buy more stake in order to raise the profile of your posts, then ALL STAKEHOLDERS win.

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Stakeholders win. Authors lose.

When you purchase a banner ad there is no issue with your stake appreciation aka curation reward (that has been intentionally pushed towards equalisation by the hardfork) is boosted by misplacing some author rewards to your own post.

It only takes a minor downvote to discourage people from voting questionable posts (for the fear of ineffective curation returns, that is).

FTR, my position is that effort should not be a factor in rewards. Lack of content an autoposts is the dangerous mixture to me.

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What is specifically "dangerous" about a "no content" "autopost" ?

(IFF) you don't like it (THEN) mute the account

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I don't think it's the same and there are not really other things you can compare it to. Self-voting is a double win as you get more post rewards and more from curation. You can get the latter voting for others. I just think we need to be wary of normalising selfish behaviour.

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(Edited)

Buying a coin, like HIVE is functionally indistinguishable from purchasing stock in a corporation.

If I can buy enough stock that I can self-boost my content in order to drive eyeballs, that's an INVESTMENT THAT HELPS EVERYONE WHO ALSO OWNS SHARES.

Imagine if major corporations like mcdonalds or coca-cola got into HIVE and wanted to boost their articles to the top of the trending page every day.

HIVE WOULD GO THROUGH THE ROOF.

And then other corporations would jump in and buy up tons of HIVE

so they could boost their own content !!!!!

Paying for banner ads only benefits the web-host, not us.

SELF-VOTING INCREASES REAL VALUE FOR ALL STAKE-HOLDERS.

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Imagine if major corporations like mcdonalds or coca-cola got into HIVE and wanted to boost their articles to the top of the trending page every day.

You first need to build the userbase you want to sell it off to corporations. There is a faction betting on building it through relevant content. It could be right or it could be wrong.

Coca-cola talk is daydreaming at this point. But even then, users downvoting Coca-cola promo make them need even more Hive sending the token price even further through the roof. Coca-cola has no feelings to be hurt and can afford to pay the community-requested premium on their ad. You only need to make sure the major frontends do not mute Coca-cola content based on receiving too many downvotes.

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I don't think coca-cola is going to be interested in participating unless they can guarantee their placement with the smallest possible investment.

LBRY Odysee.com ranks vids based on staked tokens.

You can stake to your channel and or stake to one or more individual vids.

You can also stake to someone else's channel or to someone else's vids.

This makes staking like an upvote that you can take back later if you wish.

The same goes for text posts and file posts (not just vids).

LBRY Odysee.com also has an option for you to post "pay per view" content.

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Well Hive would change if that happened. For now I see self-votes as a simple money grab. In most cases it's not about getting on trending as that would take the sort of investment most can't afford.

As always people get to decide how much a post earns and you can get judged by what you do. Most of the people I support could only add a few cents to their posts. I choose not to self-vote as the extra money is not worth it to me.

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I've never heard a coherent moral theory of why self-voting is teh evilz.

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Not necessarily 'evil', but maybe not always a good thing. When I see it then my voting is influenced. I realise people can be sneaky about it via proxy accounts. I know of an account that upvotes every post and comment they put out.

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Yeah, but even the hivewatcher police upvote their own stuff.

I've even pointed it out to them and they say, well, it's ok as long as you don't abuse it.

I have no idea.

If you own the stake, you should be able to self-vote.

The "reward pool" doesn't know and doesn't care who you vote for.

It literally makes no difference.

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You can do what you want and so can others who will judge you. People make up their own minds about stuff. They won't necessarily agree, as we obviously don't, and that's okay.

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Is it perhaps like when someone spends money in their own restaurant ?

Is that some sort of rude gesture and an insult to all the other restaurants ?

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These analogies do not really work IMHO. Hive is not like 'real life'. There are new norms.

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Look, if you're trying to say it's bad to self-vote, you're really begging the question of exactly what MORAL THEORY you're basing this on.

(IFF) "HIVE is not like anything" (THEN) NONE of your "moral instincts" apply.

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With a new economy we have to find new norms. I go with my instincts. I can make my own decisions on what is good or bad for Hive, but I will look at what others say. You just haven't persuaded me to change my mind, but things could change. I will continue to vote as I see fit. Thanks for the discussion.

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I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

I'm just trying to understand why people find it offensive.

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(Edited)

Maybe you should flag them all, or as many as you can. It seems shady to me, I hardly ever see these auto posts. If an auto post has some kind of info that helps me on that particular day, I would upvote it. Some of arranges auto posts have some good statistics and data. Like that first auto post on your list, I clicked that and it didn't look too informative.

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image.png

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More like $229, haha! Yeah Marky used to be the king of the $229 autoposts, however it looks like he finally grew up and stopped that nonsense. it's a good thing cause he is all posting agains it now, how ironic??

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(Edited)

Those were not automated posts, those went through hundreds of posts a day to find five good ones. Then leave a few paragraphs of comments on each of them, then give most of the rewards to the curators that reviewed them.

Plus they were rarely over $30-40, because they are so old and price changes, they look like they are $228, but they were no where near that at the time.

Funny you cherry pick one post that got more rewards than any other one.

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I merely performed a search for "buildawhale" and it's literally the FIRST THING in the list.

image.png

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Sure, but isn't it easy for someone to look at your work from the outside and consider it "low effort" ?

Isn't it easy to overlook the hours of scripting and careful name selection and audience building that made such a post possible in the first place ?

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All I would say is that USD has nothing to do with it.
The price of Hive goes up and all of a sudden more downvotes are required?
Hard disagree.

Either downvotes should have been cast the entire time or not at all.
None of this is going to make any sense after Hive goes x100.

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Should have been downvoted entire time, but no one wants to do it, and if you do there is too much complaining about how important these reports are to people and how Hive needs them.

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If noone wants to do it, why do we have downvotes in the first place? Oh, cuz someone wanted to do it ... Probably to inflate their whale status some more. LoL.

Not much makes sense in life, but eh, what can ya do? Oh, get bigger sticks to beat down your oppressor!!!

Sidenote: I'm all for auto posts,... Proposals don't always get funded, and auto posts are a valid alternative, if someone supports that author, then more power to them.

Obviously someone supports them.

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I don't think auto posts are bad unless they get repeated with no changing data at all. Downvotes are the best way to control what anyone thinks is over rewarded and thats all subjective. Posts can be a good way to pay for projects and if autoposts give people some info on whats going on with the project and give them a way to support it, I'm all for it.

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I have heard of users with large stake downvoting someone just because they simply do it for fun... without even telling why the post got downvoted! I think that is not a constructive way to help users with less stake on Hive, at least the user has the right to know why his post got downvoted, how can he improve his content whether it is good enough or not and with a mindset already anticipating kind of.... "Oh I think this will be downvoted again!" . This is driving the users away from Hive because of frustrations.

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You can't expect everyone to like/agree with your content and even more you can't expect people to always explain themselves. Look at something like youtube or reddit or any other social media with both up and downvotes, there's likes and dislikes there, you shouldn't get discouraged because some people don't like it and downvote there. Just keep going.

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Well, if I would have been a newbie, I´ll get discouraged being downvoted especially if I am just having a "Start" on the blockchain... So how would you feel if it happens to you as a newbie and you wouldn´t know what´s wrong with your stuff? Downvoting someone´s content is annoying, unless that post is really not worth the huge reward. Look around and tell me whether all those huge rewards are worth it.. We have a Hive Group that´s been onboarding new users and for us...downvoting is unpleasant. How can you tell a newbie what is wrong with his/her stuff if they do not know the reason, good start eh!...If downvoters do not like the content, then why not leave it alone and do not upvote.

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if you don't like something, just use the "mute" function.

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Yes thank you indeed!

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I don't downvote much, but when I do,.. it's probably some call to violent action or hate speech or some weird kkk/ss Nazi flat earth / covid denier bullshit.

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And I most definitely will not take the time to explain myself. ^>^

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Oh well that is a different thing.. But you know what.. One covid denier was infected with the covid himself and critically ill and almost died.. Now recovered, he is an advocate as a pro vaccine person. We call it here "Querdenker".

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Oh well that is a different thing.

Thats where I think the problem starts. You can't just say some downvotes without comments are "justified". Who gets to define that ruleset? What happens when you don't agree with that ruleset?

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I can't describe other's behaviors. I only know about my own. You can't stop people from downvoting, and standards are just that, standards. Not rules or regulations enforceable to be able to fully stop them, but just guidelines to steer people a certain way.

How can you tell a newbie what is wrong with his/her stuff if they do not know the reason, good start eh

Haha, they should go onto reddit. I post rarely there(under a different username, rishi556 is my voting only account) and its 90% downvoted. Just gotta toughen up for the internet. Everyone is anonymous and nobody gives a damn about you or what you think. Just keep pushing. Everyone is trying to build THEMSELVES up and some of those people don't care about bringing others down. Best thing to do is stick to your social circle and enjoy things with them(its what I have my twitter for, other than VERY few crypto related things, its just some close friends).

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Great visibility! I think its very obvious who is hitting the reward pool, and I like the way its projected.

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You have dedicated yourself to doing a great job friend, honestly I had not noticed it so clearly, and I must agree with you ...

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Not sure why you included Hivegc as they're not automated and are quite similar to other curation reports on OCD accounts with rewards going to curators.

As for poshtoken, the rewards are going to the developers that helped get it going. We're planning on doing a proposal for the next stage of development and will most likely send post rewards to the DHF after that.

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There is nothing unique about the HiveGC posts to the point they can be automated just a list of votes and the image of the post and done. There is no editorial or content outside of just listing the votes issued.

As for poshtoken, many users have been flagged for using post and comment rewards to fund projects, that’s what the dhf was designed for so the community can decide if it should be funded by community funds.

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Yeah, you're right about the hgc posts, I contacted one of the curators after I placed the comment to improve on that.

And yes, it just seemed like such a small project at the time that the funding wouldn't really cross more than 3-5k hive which at those prices was not much to bother going through the DHF - considering every thing else that gets rewarded it seemed like the easiest method at the time for something as important as POSH but for the next step which will be bigger we will definitely go through the DHF.

I just mainly wanted to point out that compared to others in that list who just get the rewards personally these two things stand out.

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I'm not sure editorial content is the right test. If the posts evidence ongoing value contribution then its fine to vote them IMO. Some automated or repetitious posts might do that, some not (others to some degree but not justifying the rewards paid).

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What I mean in the case of HiveGC posts is it is just a post of what votes the account made, no further information outside of the link to the post and image.

What if everyone decided to make a post that showcased who they voted for the day and got $50+ for it.

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(Edited)

I'd say it depends how and why the votes are made. If there is a whole lot of value added by those particular votes, then maybe. If someone is just voting haphazardly or otherwise uselessly and then posting about how they voted, then certainly not.

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(Edited)

FWIW, the curators do a lot more than just picking the best posts of that day along with many restrictions and requirements (such as checking for plagiarism, not rewarding the same authors too often, etc) such as being helpful in Discords to newcomers and the community, keeping the community clean with roles and other diverse things.

OCD's target to reward curators has been around 10% of the votes that land on the content of the authors, meaning if there's 5 posts that were picked to be highlighted for a community in a certain day and they got about $300 in rewards, we'd attempt to vote the reports for about $30, though price actions recently have asked for a lot of adjustments here and there. There are a few exceptions* of some projects under our wing such as the lovesniper project where there's a lot more work being done behind the scenes and other reasons where we can't respect the 10% rule, one of them is that too many attempt to plagiarise/fake introduction posts so we're better off rewarding unvouched intro posts a bit lower to not encourage such activity.

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Proves we need to rethink our own auto-voting. I personally am auto-voting less, and manually voting more.

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It has nothing to do with auto votes, but in fact what is being voted. My gut tells me manual voting they would still vote on these posts.

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Great post there is a easy solution the problem just limit the amount of auto votes that any one account can make in one day and also limit the vote amount that any user can use when using auto voter's this could help quite a lot

I really enjoy all the comments on this post loads of good interactions lol 😂👍🏾 thanks for sharing this post

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It has nothing to do with auto votes, but in fact what is being voted.

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(Edited)

I echo your thoughts. I do agree that some of these posts are interesting for some people. Especially when people get excited to see their names on the top stats. But I don't think it will be exciting if they keep seeing their name every single day.

I have the skill set to create such automated posts and even make them very interesting. I also tried doing it for a short span of time last year. But for some reason, I did not find it ethical to spam the chain with automated data and I stopped doing it.

If people really want to show some statistics, they should be building tools/websites that can be used by everyone to get this data anytime. Maybe a weekly stats or a monthly stats is okay to some extent but I'm not sure if creating a daily stats post is adding some value here. I don't want to be a judge here but personally, I too feel it is farming the reward pool.

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Would you consider setting those posts up with hive.fund as benefactor to reroute part of the pie (in an existing market) ethically?

Consumers: Happy.
Reward pool defenders: Happy
Automated posters: Sad but alive.

More generally, Hive would be a happier place if posting rewards were opt-in rather than opt-out. It is way more socially acceptable to downvote a post that apparently should not have stated "Give me rewards, I deserve them" (compared to someone who could claim posting for fun and raking rewards being an unexpected nuisance).

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So I should start to auto post to get rich fast?

See you on my yacht.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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An interesting post - I will use this as a template for a bot! /S

My perspective, as a new Hive user and also someone who is writing longer form blog posts on the platform, is that it is like any other form of content creation. You can put hundreds of hours into making a detailed, valuable video/post on any number of skills but a kid pretending to be arrested for clout on TikTok will still 100X your views/profit. Is that "bad"? While I personally think so, it's ultimately not for the creator to determine, people like what they like regardless of quality.

Can't account (or enforce in this case) for taste!

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PLEASE PROTECT US

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM MEDICAL MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM FINANCIAL MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM RELIGIOUS MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM EMOTIONAL MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM SCIENTIFIC MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM LOW EFFORT POSTS

PLEASE PROTECT US

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compare all that shit with real information on @lasseehlers account that gets downvoted everytime for 3 months!?!?...

Earth is flat, we have MANY proofs, look up Eric Dubay's book "200 Proofs Earth Is Not a Spinning Ball" and here I will give you some proofs for free:

Balloon versus 3D model:

https://www.lassecash.com/@lasseehlers/flat-earth-proof-1-my-first-flat-earth-proof-debunking-ball-earther-mathias-kp-who-made-the-turning-torso-ball-proof-video

Here is another proof, using the small and local sun:

https://www.lassecash.com/@lasseehlers/earth-is-flat

And here are a documentary of 1 hour full of related REAL information:

https://www.lassecash.com/@lasseehlers/level (click the photo)

https://www.lassecash.com/@lasseehlers/elon-musk-is-a-fraud

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I like a lot of what Arcange has done for the platform, but this naked vote farming led me to withdraw my witness vote for them.

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I've had similar concerns. Occasionally I vote on posts like these, but it has definitely crossed my mind on how easy it is for these posts to show up and earn high rewards. Even your posts on this make high rewards. It's good to be aware and these posts do bring value. I will say that because there are so many posts like these that they're getting less and less valuable.

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My posts are not automated posts and earn on average less than $ 1 !!! So can you stop being a fucking blind vigilante. Otherwise, downvote all @actifit posts !!! With people like you, HIVE is unlikely to have a future ....

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