Hive: Account Management System

in LeoFinance3 months ago

We are embarking upon a very interesting time within the cryptocurrency world. There is a lot changing as we push closer to the time of mass adoption.

Before we arrive there, we have some things to work out. Obviously, infrastructure still needs building. There are holes in our base ecosystems, especially in the DeFi realm. At the same time, we must see a push towards the entire industry becoming easier to use. Right now, it is too difficult for the average person. Ultimately, they will end up frustrated and simply leave.


For this reason, many believe one of the steps forward to the utilization is a simplified sign up process. We all know that the general public is unclear about keys and how they work. They are accustomed to a username/password world. If they lose the password, resetting it is what they want.

Obviously, this is not the case in crypto. Here the norm is if a key is lost, the account is gone.

A system based upon keys, if it does not scare people, is far too complex for them to even mess with. For this reason, they simply will move on. We saw this repeatedly over the years.

Hence, the idea of enabling people utility via Twitter, Facebook, or Google accounts. This is what the present Internet does so it is expected that is what should be duplicated.

From a growth perspective, this makes total sense. We do need to reduce the learning curve as much as possible, especially for social media applications. People are not going to spend hours trying to figure something out simply to engage with other users.

However, there is another perspective to consider. One of the areas of focus on a platform like Hive is the fact that one owns his or her account. With a key system, there is no way to close an account down. It is not owned nor controlled by the platform. This is a major concept that we have to consider further.

The Internet evolved into a system of gatekeepers. Like many traditional industries, there are a few powerful companies that positioned themselves as the guardians. In other words, if you want to pass through, permission is required. Fail to live up to what they want and one is at risk of not being allowed to participate.

This is something that is becoming obvious to people. Each time companies such as Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube go through their banning sprees, another set of individuals realize how they were ruled by these entities. Entire businesses that took years to build were wiped out in a matter of seconds.

We see the same thing with the financial aspect of things. PayPal is the prime example here. Want to engage in commerce online, it is likely that you will have to deal with this company. Just like the social media outfits, PayPal can cite violations of its ToS as a reason for account closure.

Both of these can have financial ramifications. Of course, the later is nothing but financial so the peril is evident right from the start. What if, however, we are rapidly embarking upon a time when the former is equally as dangerous.


Yesterday I wrote about how Facebook is becoming a company that is even more perilous than we already know. Its foray into virtual reality via the Oculus brand is not healthy for individuals. When using these devices, one has to engage via a FB account. This puts people behind its wall.

Eventually, as the applications are expanded, there will be a wallet system tied to those accounts. The challenge with this is that Facebook is on control. Since one is behind their wall, anything in that wallet is subject to being lost if the account is banned. Here we see how the social media account became akin to PayPal.

Hopefully, people can see how uncertain this can be. So what is the solution?

When we look at Hive, one of the main features of the blockchain is account management. The base layer has this system built into it. Everything regarding the account is monitored and validated. Transactions are updated every block ensuring no double spend. Keys are also handled at this layer providing a trustless system.

The best part about this is that no account can be closed. Hive lacks the coding to shut down any account. Once an account is opened, as long as the key is not lost, it can be accessed. At the same time, whatever is in that wallet cannot be taken

As they say, Your keys, your coins.

Now let us expand this idea to the evolution of the Internet that is taking place right now. This will embark upon what people are terming "Web 3.0".

We are going to see more tokenization appearing. DeFi and NFTs, two areas of massive growth, are only going to get bigger. Over time, the applications integrating with cryptocurrency, wallets, and blockchains is only going to expand. This means people are going to have accounts that have PayPal characteristics more so than the traditional FB or Google. In other words, they contain monetary assets.

Here again, do we want this under the control of Facebook, Google, or Twitter? The answer becomes fairly obvious.

This is where Hive can step in. Unlike blockchains like Bitcoin or Ethereum, accounts are Hive are personal. They can be set us with a name the user creates. Instead of a string of numbers and letters, this is something that people are familiar with.

While having a key is radically different from what people know, it does provide the level of protection that does not exist presently. Each time we see a "Log in with Facebook", we are looking at a site or application that might not be accessible if the account is banned. Obviously, this extends to more than just to Facebook's ecosystem.

Perhaps we need to start focusing upon the idea of "Log in with Hive". This platform's account management system ensures that anyone using it will always be able to access whatever application or site is desired. Since the account cannot be closed, it will always be available to the individual.

This will also protect whatever assets are in the wallet system. Over the next couple years, this is going to become a much bigger point of emphasis. If the monetary value tied to accounts expands, people are at greater risk of loss if the major Internet outfits simply decide to close an account.

We know how important people's digital lives are. When a Twitter account is closed, for example, that individual's digital history vanishes. It is as if he or she never existed. With the new technologies being created, this concept is only going to take upon larger meaning.

In other words, we become, in some ways, a part of the account. When that goes away, so does a part of us, at least from the online perspective.

This is a concept that few are considering at this point yet the ramifications are clear. As we march forward, if people do not control their accounts, they are in a bad position. Whatever they generate online is subject to the whims of someone else. This is very dangerous, especially if there is money tied to the account.

It is a point that everyone needs to start considering.

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Unlike blockchains like Bitcoin or Ethereum, accounts [on] Hive are personal. They can be set [up] with a name the user creates. Instead of a string of numbers and letters, this is something that people are familiar with.

Perhaps we need to start focusing upon the idea of "Log in with Hive". This platform's account management system ensures that anyone using it will always be able to access whatever application or site is desired. Since the account cannot be closed, it will always be available to the individual.

This is perhaps the most compelling proposed enhancement to Hive I have heard yet.

When I first tried to onboard (in December), I gave up after 30 to 45 minutes of trying. A few weeks later (early January), I tried again and successfully signed up via

When I showed Hive to my students in February, they almost all said, "It's way too hard to sign up." To combat this, I set up class-only accounts on their behalf, and simply gave them the posting keys. A few of them chose to set up their own accounts (like maybe 2 or 3).

When I found LeoFinance's twitter login method, I thought, "This is great, except it only allows folks to use LeoFinance. They still need to figure out key management before they can interact with the rest of the Hive ecosystem."

What you've proposed is exactly what is needed (imho) -- a simple login that can be used with multiple front ends, multiple dApps, etc.

You have my full support in both promoting and implementing this concept.

The challenge is, of course, that this "Log in with Hive" will have to be centralized solution (I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I hope I am).

Posted via

In reading the @spknetwork paper, they are implementing a host of other logs ins like Google, Twitter, and FB. They also have email.

So people will be able to access that network in other ways.

As for the Log in with Hive, I am not sure how that would work but it is something that we need to keep promoting. Get developers to start utilizing the idea of tapping into Hive.

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Well better password management would be required since most people just tend to reset their passwords whenever they forget. I tend to do that sometimes as well when I can't remember them and for some reason it wasn't saved somewhere. I think the entire system of keeping track of your private key and only using public keys would save people a lot of hassle but it would also take quite a while to get use to.

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Yeah I am with you on that. I can never remember even what I set them to.

Pain in the ass. The only ones I dont change are the ones saved which is basically for bill paying.

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I do that a lot and it's normal for people to forget I just have printed all my hive key because there no way I'm gonna remember that all

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Perhaps we need to start focusing upon the idea of "Log in with Hive.

We need this.

Today the founder of musing reach out to me and I politely asked him to collaborate with Hive. In the future we will have many applications will have their own blockchain, so it’s important to have tools that allow applications(Dapp) that are not part of hive to connect hive.

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this is why keychain needs to be the ultimate app for log-ins.

Log in with keychain can become an alternative like "log in with Twitter/facebook".

Besides this, I think keychain needs on the mobile an QR code scanning thing for payments. This is not needed today but can be a big thing in the future ( with fixed HBD as a real stable coin, who knows).

The QR code thing on Keychain could be also used for log ins. you don't need to put a password into the browser. Scan the QR code and log in. Works already on other apps, and would be super cool for Hive.

Like a Hardware wallet that doesn't need to connect to the machine, you want to log in. The website sees because of unique URl you are agree with log in on keychain. Bam :)

Why i like it? this is something we could pitch to apps :)

keychain has to become something similar to Metamask.

We also need HIVE Hardware wallet!

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Agreed. And Hive does have an account management system that is built in and decentralized. This is something that is important for humanity going forward.

A lot of things being offered here, the list keeps growing.

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Somehow I feel like we need a workable system, I know most people fear the loss or their account as a result of misplacing their keys, somehow I think this fear will also be in the mind of anyone aiming to Invest big into hive, or what do you think?

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I think those who invest big into Hive will make damn sure their keys are safe and in a place they can find them.

It is the average person I think is of greater worry. They are not going to take extra care if they are just signing up to a social media app or something. Yet as we know, over time, that can become worth a bit of money. That person suddenly has something to lose.

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This i actually understandable I believe its something to ponder on, I know a lot of newbies that have lost their keys and ultimately they will need to create new accounts, it can actually be discouraging plus a lot of dormant accounts.

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As long as there is very little in it, not the end of the world.

People will learn about keys and those who make a second account after losing their keys, will not do so again.

Experience can be a great teacher.

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I agree on this, I have taken it upon myself to tell new users to keep their keys as their accounts can be really valuable in years to come.

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it will make things easy for me for sure and will allow for easy adaption for new users

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I like the idea of

Log in with Hive

considering one HIVE account can access on other applications on HIVE.

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Yes but imagine if other non hive applications accepted the log in as a means of access to their sites. That would be an amazing step forward.

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I used to think that there has to be some form of middle ground for this type of thing, but I am starting to think that there simply may not be. If people want to be able to use crypto and not have to worry about losing access or their account being locked, they are going to need to deal with keys. Allowing some form of Google SSO might bring a lot more users into the space, but it has the hazards that you mentioned above. I just don't know if we will ever see mass adoption if people aren't willing to be educated about keys.

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 3 months ago 

I think metamask/keychain, that's the compromise.
Store your keys physically somewhere difficult to get to; for emergency backup, and just set a password on your extension.
If you forget your password, you need to go do some digging.
Bit of a learning curve for newcomers, but short of multisig with a bunch of friends, there's not much else on the table.

Learning curve yes but compared to the option that exits with the centralized entities, a far better alternative.

I believe we will see more things like Metamask in the future. That is part of the infrastructure that needs development.

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I agree with that, but they need to make something that is easily useable for mobile. Right now it just doesn't exist. It works great in a desktop or laptop browser, but via mobile not so much. That will be game changing if they can get there.

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I do not really see how there is a middle ground around keys of some sort. Maybe there can be a new approach but the only thing I can think of is a reset with proof of personhood which means another verifying or something.

But who knows, many some developer out there has a sensational idea that is being worked on.

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Even if they could get something like Hive Keychain working on a mobile platform like someone else mentioned, that could be a step in the right direction. EOS wallets like Token Pocket kind of work that way currently for mobile devices.

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I thought Keychain is now on mobile. Am I mistaken?

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It might be, I haven't messed around with it too much.

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Few understand the importance of having true ownership over your own account, with all its data, history, reputation, followers and, of course, funds. A central concept of Web 3.0 which we certainly can be emphasizing and advertising more. And it goes hand in hand with censorship resistance.

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Few understand it but I think it will become obvious going forward. This is something that is going to have huge financial implications are more money is floating around in app and games.

Web 3.0 is not going to be an easy transition for everyone.

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I can’t fathom my entering this environment to mimic what we despise. Yes, I’m on all those social media accounts. No, I never ever trust them with my livelihood. Now that HIVE exists, it should advance only with principles it was built on. I haven’t been on the blockchain long, but I could tell you what I wouldn’t want it to become.

I can’t fathom my entering this environment to mimic what we despise.

I agree yet look at how many enter this space yet mimic their behavior from before like flocking to a centralized platform to "chat".

Now that HIVE exists, it should advance only with principles it was built on.

I love seeing this. To me, that is why we are here. Those who focus upon just the money are missing the bigger picture. I am glad you see it and I look forward to engaging with you more.

Drop by @leomarkettalk and get to know us more. We are there each day.

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I agree to but you also have to agree a lot of normal people don't know of the hive and it's not easy to tell them where can you share your perspective on FB Twitter or youtube but they are stopping us from speaking it out

overall I agree with you

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Certainly I agree most people do not know about Hive. I think this is true even for those in crypto.

However, I think the tide will change when the killer DApp comes out. That is what will change things. I have a feeling if we see the @spknetwork soon, it will make a lot of noise very quickly.

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I think so too

Thanks @taskmaster4450le - I will and I’m sure I’ll learn a bit there too. Happy Cinco de Mayo.

We try to educate. A lot of diverse topics so who knows what you will learn. You might be surprised.

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@taskmaster4450le you had me at Cryptomaniacs ✋🏽

I too was like really, when I first came to the blockchain and seen I had to use these long ridiculous keys just to access my account, and I couldn't even change them or link them to a more user friendly password. After learning of the reasoning behind the unrecoverable keys, I thought 'that's cool' no one else has access to my login info and no one can take what I've worked hard to earn. So if and when people realize how their accounts are protected from others they will change their minds and they'll take the necessary steps, it something that just has to grow on them.

If hive were to change this procedure it would give me second thoughts of if I want my money here.

Just like banks, hive is protecting our funds but unlike banks the owner has control. I like the fact that I have the control and I have several copies of my keys in several different places including hard copies.


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You are your own bank so secure your money.

It is up to each of us. With freedom does come responsibility.

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Yes, yes for sure ....



@taskmaster4450! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @successchar.

Learn more about $PIZZA Token at

Hive has social password recovery built in. There must be ways to improve I’ve upon it, making it more usable and easy to set up, etc.

Btw, holy crap there’s a Discord button floating over the comments now. Is that new?

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What do you mean a discord button?

I dont seem to see that. What am I missing?

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It's on the bottom right on the smartphone version of the site. Takes you to the Leo Discord server. At first I thought maybe it was a per account thing, which would be cool, I mean if anyone could have a link to their discord in their profile or hovering over comments.

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If you keep your keys in a safe place hive can be the most secure way to keep your coins, if they are powered up of course; also they can be put to work by joining a curation trail. High security and decent rewards, I think that's a pretty good deal

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That is a great point. If the keys are kept safe, nobody can access your account. What better system is there than that?

Unless you pass on, then your heirs might be locked out too which I am sure has happened already.

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Education is crucial to newbies especially when dealing with private keys. I always tell people once you enter the crypto sphere you are becoming the bank. In the next few years hopefully simplification of blockchain applications will be the norm.

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Yeah I am not sure if there is a happy medium. To become a bank, security is crucial. That means keys.

People want easier stuff on that end yet it will only lessen the security and with the money we are potentially talking down the road, that is not a good thing.

It is an interesting discussion to see what takes place.

Either way, much better than FB and Google log ins.

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Great sharing! i have lost my key before because of inactivity and i had to make this new account to be able to join back to the community. But to be honest, after steemit becomes hive, it feels a lot better. :D

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Yes we are a much different place than we were 14 months ago. We are just getting started also. In my view, there is a lot more to come that is exciting.

Glad you made it back, even with your new account. I hope there wasn't too much in the first one that you lost.

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When you get past the initial hurdle of using keys and a key manager (eg. Hive Keychain) + back up, it's actually quite easy and safe. The mindset shift is a hurdle, but once we're past it we are in a better place.

Has any major Steem/Hive user that we know of ever lost their keys? I know plenty of small accounts who registered and then forgot about it, to later not recover/remember, but I'm not aware of any large investor or long time Steem/Hive user doing so that we know of.

When you get past the initial hurdle of using keys and a key manager (eg. Hive Keychain) + back up, it's actually quite easy and safe. The mindset shift is a hurdle, but once we're past it we are in a better place.

Agreed. It is not brain surgery. Most can get it with a bit of concentration and it is well worth the time.

I am not sure large accounts. As stated above, if one invests a bunch of money, there is the likelihood that person will be very smart with the keys. It is likelier the smaller accounts.

The comment just above this one mentioned losing the keys.

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Is it like HiveSigner?

Is what like Hivesigner?

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The ecpsystem overall here is well regulated if you think about it
it is amazing
Everything around you is carefully and meticulously managed every post, every vote, every transaction

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Perhaps we need to start focusing upon the idea of "Log in with Hive".

You mean a separate login method from existing keychain and hivesigner, developed especially for the apps not built on Hive, but which have users with Hive accounts?

That would be beneficial for the users and the guarantee their account won't be closed, which centralized platforms don't offer, and also a good way to put the name of Hive out there.

Where I see a potential issue is when we consider that most 'Login with...' options are for highly-established platforms, which Hive isn't. So, we can only hope users might request it as an option, if they know it exists, but it would be a slow spread, probably.

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We definitely don't want to log in using some other legacy platform. Using the Hive keys was clunky at first but gets easier with use over time. And the whole point is that they are keys to your wallet and not merely your social media site. People need to differentiate and see the need for the keys.

I used keychain for a good while but last week it broke on me, and I had to delete it and go back to prior methods of logging in. I reinstalled it but still can't post an image in my LEO blog post at all because of keychain error. So there are still problems with keychain from my amateur perspective. Fortunately there are older ways to log in to Hive and LEO platforms.

By the way you and I and others are getting daily downvote from the same account. I wonder what his problem is?

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I know I mention other blockchains a bit too much, but WAX's cloud wallet is so easy, you can use your google account, Facebook account whatever, and works seamlessly. Hive should look to that as the gold standard, and then once you become a whale and have megabucks in your wallet (don't we all wish that!), maybe you don't trust Facebook or google, and then you can export your keys.

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I don't want any one such as PayPal, Twitter or Facebook to have a hold of my money. That is why I like the Hive block chain. It really is disturbing that Facebook and others can just shut you down and run away with your money. That to me is stealing and that make me angry. So I will stick with Hive. I would think that using Hive signer to get into my account on Hive which is easy for me.

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Keychain should be our brand. Or better, Hive -keychain log in :)

Would add many benefits to websites and would allow a semi anon log in way :)

Maybe if implementing 2FA codes, there could be some sort of way to have a user set password and 2FA code for logging in, that should be quite secure already. Or is it not?

Ofcourse the key would have to be saved too, but maybe that could come later when the user is already more familiar with the Hive ecosystem. Something similar is already on Leofinance with twitter I think.

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Very true as accounts are starting to increase in value the security aspect does become more serious. If you have 100 Hive compared to 10 000 Hive this does become more highlighted in how you think. An easier system is not always the answer however and I am comfortable with the keys yet not everyone will be as it is so foreign in how they work currently. Hive is very different and anything that has monetary value needs to be looked at differently.

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Thanks sharing🥰

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