Now just find a couple of competent and reasonable people and start negotiations.
Not the ones who already participated. It was a disaster.
And downvoting Sun's post will not help either.
You're chinese and I really thought that you'd read Sun Tzu...
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Now is clear that you didn't read or if read lost your mind allowing that someone works with you thoughts and you made this completely mess. Unforgivable mess.
You bring to the blockchain history: for good and now on for bads.
So you have a long time to fix that... Welcome to Steem!
This is good news! Still a little worried about the sharp increase in Steem volume on Bittrex... and how it seems to be making its way to one of the suspect accounts... as a result of which the overall vote value supporting each the 20 bot witnesses has been creeping up slowly, over the past 2-3 days. We're not out of the woods, yet... and it seems like the Korean community has something going on, too...
I have some Bitcoin in Bittrex and Poloniex. Perhaps, I should pack up and leave. I guess I don't really need to keep money in those exchanges, especially if I can't trust them.
Whatever happens we really need to find a way to stop this kind of thing happening again. Nobody should be able to come in and buy the network.
My stake is quite small but my social stake is quite large having been here for nearly three years.
I would love to see a way that this is taken into account in the Witness votes. Something like a REP system that works and a way to use that to multiply my vote strength.
A new account, a week or two old should not be able to have such power when they don't have social skin in the game.
I wrote more about this in my latest post but it fell down the back of the Steem sofa.
The takeover was to just unfreeze his account. Thats all.
If his account was never frozen the take over would not have occurred.
THe witnesses need to explain that one to the community.
It is a complex story with many different perspectives. I am aware of what the Witnesses did and although I may not be in full support of it I think they made the right call at that moment based on what was happening. Freeze until there was clarification.
The stake that Justin bought was promised by Ned to use for the good of the community through a gentleman's agreement. Obviously Ned is no gentleman and sold it on for personal profit.
Many investors got into Steem under the understanding that that was what Steemit's stake would be used for.
Let's hope everything can be resolved for both the good of Steem and steemit.
So any new large whale investor should have his account frozen until he clarifies his intentions? Justin had 20%, not a majority. Thats not decentralization. Thats centralization. Gentlemans agreement worth 12 million dollars? Who does that?
I believe the issue was more with the stake than Justin and rightfully so. For those of us who invested in the blockchain for the last few years I agree that trust in Ned to do the right thing was wrong.
For the record I don't think any whale investor should wield such power in governance unless they add to the community in other ways.
The Steemit account is an absolute majority (about 70%) of the actively voting stake. You can't expect all of the supply to ever vote because much of it is liquid for trading as well as dormant or even lost accounts.
The only way we know how much stake is going to vote is by how much actually votes and i that case it's a clear majority.
So freeze all large investor whales in the future? Freeze all voting bot accounts? This is a decentralized blockcain. ITs the risk we take, the community still has no idea what his plan was or how flexible he would have been with community response to specific ideas he had. He was our biggest new whale member, look how we treated him. We all share the same interest of improving the value of steem .
So freeze all large investor whales in the future?
No.
This is a decentralized blockcain.
Good then stop going on about legal documents (in your other replies). People are free to run whatever software they want, and that includes forks. Blockchains are entirely voluntary and don't rely ultimately on coercive enforcement by government institutions the way centralized systems do. That is their entire purpose for existing.
ITs the risk we take
"We", in this context, means everyone. When Justin buys a company that has stake on a blockchain and that blockchain community has a clear understanding of how that stake is to be used, he violates that at his peril.
We all share the same interest of improving the value of steem .
Absolutely and that includes insuring that the 65-75 million steam that was earmarked for development of the ecosystem is used for that, regardless of whether or not the shares in some company change hands.
In truth, the community accepted Ned's lies and spin for too long and enforcement of on-chain controls over that stake should have happened long ago, but better late than never.
Well said. What’s hilarious, to me at leat, is that this whole drama has been the only thing that’s gotten me (or many others) to actually be interested in visiting/using steem for the first time in like...forever.
Justin did not pay anything close to 12 million dollars. He got a massive discount, either because he know about the stake being a form of dev fund and thought he could jam it out anyway with the help of exchanges, or he couldn't resist a deal that was "too good to be true" and didn't bother to carefully look into what he was buying.
How much he paid is not an opinion, it is a number. The rest of my comment is a set of alternatives, which is also not opinion, as one of them must be true. Did I miss some other possibility? I don't think so.
I can assure you no investor is going to be buying the ninja-mined stake that was promised for development any time soon. There has never been any issue with regular investors buying ordinary stake, but this is not that.
Should Steem have three or four branches like the U.S. government in order to seek balance, like you said, @ammonite, in order to stop this from happening again? I'm not sure how the branches would work but perhaps there could be different teams. So, instead of buying just Steem and instead of only voting for just witnesses, perhaps we could have for example, Red Steem and Blue Steem, Red Witnesses and Blue Witnesses lol haha, no, but seriously they don't have to be those colors. But there has to be a way to put limits to these types of things like you said. So, it comes down to the architecture of the blockchain, the design, the structure. I'm a bit of a web designer but I don't know too much about blockchain. I could probably study it but I can't really say too much at the moment concerning how that would be done.
I am not sure if looking to the way democracy is performed in the world today will give us good answers. They all seem to be corrupted by money. The REP or UA system that could be redesigned to add more weight to our vote based on our interactions on the chain. I don't know much about the workings of the Blockchain either but I am sure there is a better way. Thanks for the reply
The problem is not republics like America but rather the infiltration into the United States for example. One big problem is namely corporatism which is not really a consequence of capitalism but rather corruption and infiltration and collusion with government via cartels, monopolies, authoritarianism, tyranny, etc. I agree with you that perhaps our REP system or upvoting system could be redesigned like you said or something. We should all at least experiment, talk about it, and try at least.
A good start but why hasn't Binance begun their powerdown? ...it's been 14hrs now.
Stalling tactics once again before the next propaganda blitz, imho.
Keep up the pressure.
Still, what Ciara Sun claims to have said regarding the powerup - allegedly given scripts by TRON to initiate the coordinated powerup, talk of death threats, and that CZ was in the chats prior to the powerup... this seems more like collusion every day.
Unverified at this point but makes a lot of sense.
@mmmmkkkk311 is attempting to use his flags to intimidate Steemians into abandoning their support for @steembasicincome.
He baselessly claims it is a "ponzi scheme" which just shows that either he doesn't understand how it works or (more likely) he just doesn't understand what a ponzi scheme even is! And the blatant hypocrisy in him trying to fight "vote selling" when that is exactly what he did with his bidbot! As as bidbot owner with over a dozen alt accounts he is in no place to judge what is right or wrong here on Steem. Now he is mad that his scam has ended. So like an upset child, he has decided to take out his anger (caused only by his own failures) on other innocent people. Making him nothing more than a big bully!
I am here to counter @mmmmkkkk311's bullying. I will upvote every post/comment that he downvotes. You can support my anti bullying upvotes by delegating (links below) Steem Power to @ilovemk311. And you can help keep this message visible by upvoting this comment or by purchasing SBI shares for @mk311isabully which will help to counter the downvotes that @mmmmkkkk311 will surely send my way. Which I highly encourage him to do as the more downvoting power he wastes on me the less he can use to downvote the real content creators here on Steem that would otherwise become his victims!
I ask YOU my fellow Steemians to help me take a stand for our Steem community.
With this jerk bullying innocent people we are seeing many great content creators leave due to the drama and negativity that @mmmmkkkk311's downvote campaign brings to the blockchain. While he claims he is trying to defend his investment he is actually unwittingly destroying it.
SBI is an initiative that has done nothing but help promote onboarding and community building here on the Steem blockchain. Let us not turn our back on it out of fear for getting downvoted. Instead lets stand up for this great initiative that has helped so many people and helped the Steem community to grow and thrive!
Why dont we freeze all the Bit bot accounts next and all the large whales? Remove their voting rights.
THey have a hugh influence. Just thinking along Witness logic.
There too centralized ...lol
Binance started powerdown of ONLY 16K #steem
This is unbelievable. Are the leading exchange @binance tech people really so incompetent, and do not see a difference between STEEM and MVests?
Or just pretend so dumb, in reality trying to win TIME for new strikes back from @justinsuntron ?
Instead of 31.739 MSteem they tarted 31.739 MVests. Incredible !
Are the leading exchange @binance tech people really so incompetent, and do not see a difference between STEEM and MVests?
Or just pretend so dumb, in reality trying to win TIME for new strikes back from @justinsuntron ?
The first one would fit Hanlon’s Razor (never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity) so can’t be completely dismissed as a possibility.
But the second seems quite plausible given how this coup d’état has played out so far.
Fuggg yeahhhh!
lets wait for Binance now (its coming, i feel it) and we are done here.
According to the Bible, God is everywhere: Fact or Fiction.
Watch the Video below to know the Answer...
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It was reported a few hours ago that Binance was going to start powering down. Good news all around.
Please help me to understand how and when its help steem witnesses to get there control back ?
Vote real witness
And don't let others vote for you. No proxy.. just do it yourself.
Yea man!!!! Hopefully Binance will quickly click that power down button. Had been waiting for ages.
Now just find a couple of competent and reasonable people and start negotiations.
Not the ones who already participated. It was a disaster.
And downvoting Sun's post will not help either.
Do you mean the last Town Hall talk? Are there a recording, full impressions?
https://steemit.com/steem/@ausbitbank/witnesses-meeting-with-tron-representative-roy-liu-full-recording
I listened to it already. I mean the yesterday's talk.
Some of the negotiators did well others were terrible.
I find the steem negotiators a perfect match. Don't bring me new ones, I started to like them. Just remove Marky else Roy will not let me speak again!
You're chinese and I really thought that you'd read Sun Tzu...
Now is clear that you didn't read or if read lost your mind allowing that someone works with you thoughts and you made this completely mess. Unforgivable mess.
You bring to the blockchain history: for good and now on for bads.
So you have a long time to fix that... Welcome to Steem!
Yes negotiators. And community involvement.
All I ever Wanted was to Play Steemmonsters in a Peaceful World....... @aggroed
This is good news! Still a little worried about the sharp increase in Steem volume on Bittrex... and how it seems to be making its way to one of the suspect accounts... as a result of which the overall vote value supporting each the 20 bot witnesses has been creeping up slowly, over the past 2-3 days. We're not out of the woods, yet... and it seems like the Korean community has something going on, too...
How and where do you see those stats? I’d like to check them too!
You can see exchanges volumes on https://www.coingecko.com/it/monete/steem#markets
Thanks I’ll check it out.
I have some Bitcoin in Bittrex and Poloniex. Perhaps, I should pack up and leave. I guess I don't really need to keep money in those exchanges, especially if I can't trust them.
This is a positive response but negative for Justin Sun.
Whatever happens we really need to find a way to stop this kind of thing happening again. Nobody should be able to come in and buy the network.
My stake is quite small but my social stake is quite large having been here for nearly three years.
I would love to see a way that this is taken into account in the Witness votes. Something like a REP system that works and a way to use that to multiply my vote strength.
A new account, a week or two old should not be able to have such power when they don't have social skin in the game.
I wrote more about this in my latest post but it fell down the back of the Steem sofa.
He bought 20% .
Had acccount frozen ( hacked) . Did nothing .
What investor would ever touch steem again?
The takeover was to just unfreeze his account. Thats all.
If his account was never frozen the take over would not have occurred.
THe witnesses need to explain that one to the community.
It is a complex story with many different perspectives. I am aware of what the Witnesses did and although I may not be in full support of it I think they made the right call at that moment based on what was happening. Freeze until there was clarification.
The stake that Justin bought was promised by Ned to use for the good of the community through a gentleman's agreement. Obviously Ned is no gentleman and sold it on for personal profit.
Many investors got into Steem under the understanding that that was what Steemit's stake would be used for.
Let's hope everything can be resolved for both the good of Steem and steemit.
So any new large whale investor should have his account frozen until he clarifies his intentions? Justin had 20%, not a majority. Thats not decentralization. Thats centralization. Gentlemans agreement worth 12 million dollars? Who does that?
I believe the issue was more with the stake than Justin and rightfully so. For those of us who invested in the blockchain for the last few years I agree that trust in Ned to do the right thing was wrong.
For the record I don't think any whale investor should wield such power in governance unless they add to the community in other ways.
The Steemit account is an absolute majority (about 70%) of the actively voting stake. You can't expect all of the supply to ever vote because much of it is liquid for trading as well as dormant or even lost accounts.
The only way we know how much stake is going to vote is by how much actually votes and i that case it's a clear majority.
So freeze all large investor whales in the future? Freeze all voting bot accounts? This is a decentralized blockcain. ITs the risk we take, the community still has no idea what his plan was or how flexible he would have been with community response to specific ideas he had. He was our biggest new whale member, look how we treated him. We all share the same interest of improving the value of steem .
No.
Good then stop going on about legal documents (in your other replies). People are free to run whatever software they want, and that includes forks. Blockchains are entirely voluntary and don't rely ultimately on coercive enforcement by government institutions the way centralized systems do. That is their entire purpose for existing.
"We", in this context, means everyone. When Justin buys a company that has stake on a blockchain and that blockchain community has a clear understanding of how that stake is to be used, he violates that at his peril.
Absolutely and that includes insuring that the 65-75 million steam that was earmarked for development of the ecosystem is used for that, regardless of whether or not the shares in some company change hands.
In truth, the community accepted Ned's lies and spin for too long and enforcement of on-chain controls over that stake should have happened long ago, but better late than never.
Well said. What’s hilarious, to me at leat, is that this whole drama has been the only thing that’s gotten me (or many others) to actually be interested in visiting/using steem for the first time in like...forever.
Justin did not pay anything close to 12 million dollars. He got a massive discount, either because he know about the stake being a form of dev fund and thought he could jam it out anyway with the help of exchanges, or he couldn't resist a deal that was "too good to be true" and didn't bother to carefully look into what he was buying.
Maybe , Maybe not. Thats your opinion. This should be debate about facts. Legal documents, etc.
How much he paid is not an opinion, it is a number. The rest of my comment is a set of alternatives, which is also not opinion, as one of them must be true. Did I miss some other possibility? I don't think so.
!ENGAGE 15
@test45 you have received
15 ENGAGEfrom @ammonite!View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.
I can assure you no investor is going to be buying the ninja-mined stake that was promised for development any time soon. There has never been any issue with regular investors buying ordinary stake, but this is not that.
Present the legal documents. Its what makes the world go round.
Should Steem have three or four branches like the U.S. government in order to seek balance, like you said, @ammonite, in order to stop this from happening again? I'm not sure how the branches would work but perhaps there could be different teams. So, instead of buying just Steem and instead of only voting for just witnesses, perhaps we could have for example, Red Steem and Blue Steem, Red Witnesses and Blue Witnesses lol haha, no, but seriously they don't have to be those colors. But there has to be a way to put limits to these types of things like you said. So, it comes down to the architecture of the blockchain, the design, the structure. I'm a bit of a web designer but I don't know too much about blockchain. I could probably study it but I can't really say too much at the moment concerning how that would be done.
I am not sure if looking to the way democracy is performed in the world today will give us good answers. They all seem to be corrupted by money. The REP or UA system that could be redesigned to add more weight to our vote based on our interactions on the chain. I don't know much about the workings of the Blockchain either but I am sure there is a better way. Thanks for the reply
The problem is not republics like America but rather the infiltration into the United States for example. One big problem is namely corporatism which is not really a consequence of capitalism but rather corruption and infiltration and collusion with government via cartels, monopolies, authoritarianism, tyranny, etc. I agree with you that perhaps our REP system or upvoting system could be redesigned like you said or something. We should all at least experiment, talk about it, and try at least.
!ENGAGE 20
@joeyarnoldvn you have received
20 ENGAGEfrom @ammonite!View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.
A good start but why hasn't Binance begun their powerdown? ...it's been 14hrs now.
Stalling tactics once again before the next propaganda blitz, imho.
Keep up the pressure.
They did now. Apparently there was a some genuine confusion over how to use the wallet.
Still, what Ciara Sun claims to have said regarding the powerup - allegedly given scripts by TRON to initiate the coordinated powerup, talk of death threats, and that CZ was in the chats prior to the powerup... this seems more like collusion every day.
Unverified at this point but makes a lot of sense.
Who is more stupid:
A girl with Dawn Syndrome or Extreme Communists who don't understand basic economy?
Did Justin Sun get a sex change already?
great news
What is with Binance ; why are they dragging their feet after the announcement. Something fishy going on.
If they want to repair damages, they should also vote for community witnesses
He baselessly claims it is a "ponzi scheme" which just shows that either he doesn't understand how it works or (more likely) he just doesn't understand what a ponzi scheme even is! And the blatant hypocrisy in him trying to fight "vote selling" when that is exactly what he did with his bidbot! As as bidbot owner with over a dozen alt accounts he is in no place to judge what is right or wrong here on Steem. Now he is mad that his scam has ended. So like an upset child, he has decided to take out his anger (caused only by his own failures) on other innocent people. Making him nothing more than a big bully!
MK admits to running a bidbot
Actual account who was "wrecked by @mmmmkkkk311 (for holding sbi shares)"
I am here to counter @mmmmkkkk311's bullying. I will upvote every post/comment that he downvotes. You can support my anti bullying upvotes by delegating (links below) Steem Power to @ilovemk311. And you can help keep this message visible by upvoting this comment or by purchasing SBI shares for @mk311isabully which will help to counter the downvotes that @mmmmkkkk311 will surely send my way. Which I highly encourage him to do as the more downvoting power he wastes on me the less he can use to downvote the real content creators here on Steem that would otherwise become his victims!
Choose a delegation amount
5 | 10 | 20 | 50 | 100 | 500 | 1000
With this jerk bullying innocent people we are seeing many great content creators leave due to the drama and negativity that @mmmmkkkk311's downvote campaign brings to the blockchain. While he claims he is trying to defend his investment he is actually unwittingly destroying it.
SBI is an initiative that has done nothing but help promote onboarding and community building here on the Steem blockchain. Let us not turn our back on it out of fear for getting downvoted. Instead lets stand up for this great initiative that has helped so many people and helped the Steem community to grow and thrive!
Why dont we freeze all the Bit bot accounts next and all the large whales? Remove their voting rights.
THey have a hugh influence. Just thinking along Witness logic.
There too centralized ...lol
We dont even need a reason. Since thats what we do to large investor whales. Ask Justin Sun.
Binance started powerdown of ONLY 16K #steem
This is unbelievable. Are the leading exchange @binance tech people really so incompetent, and do not see a difference between STEEM and MVests?
Or just pretend so dumb, in reality trying to win TIME for new strikes back from @justinsuntron ?
Instead of 31.739 MSteem they tarted 31.739 MVests. Incredible !
The first one would fit Hanlon’s Razor (never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity) so can’t be completely dismissed as a possibility.
But the second seems quite plausible given how this coup d’état has played out so far.
Hey can we reachout together on twitter to Binance guy...to power down fully...CZ responds to tweets.
I am thinking of twitting this image...and tell him to power down fully...which hashtags would work? ... I am not that twitter savvy.
No need any more. They are powering down now at full
YAHOO!!!
Killer news! Build our community and this won't happen again!
Is the Test 45 account @test45 secretly the mother of Tron Babysitter Justin Sun?
Nope... Come on man...
But it has no profile picture, meaning it could be your mother.
Could be my dog... Oh wait he has an account
Ohhhhhhhh
lol
Good to know
Congratulations @aggroed!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:
So in less than a week, we may see a sell off ? Only ? is will it hurt or help.
Cool