Community Vote - Express your opinion now

in #steem9 months ago

There are ongoing negotiations between the steem witnesses and Tron around the current situation. The big talking point at the moment is the fund's lockup in SP by the Exchanges. Exchanges want access to these funds as soon as possible.

I think it is important for the steem community to express their opinion on this and let the witnesses know how they feel. I also think it is important for the witnesses to also share with their supporters their stance on this.

This is a simple vote to gauge the feel from the real steem community on the current situation. To keep this simple there are only 3 options to chose from.

In relations to the SP lockup by the exchanges would you like to:

  1. Leave the current 13-week power down in play
  2. Allow Exchanges to carry out a once-off power down within 4 weeks
  3. Allow Exchanges to carry out a once-off power down within 7 days.

There is one comment below for each choice 1-3, please vote on your preferred option only. The option with the most upvotes shall be deemed the preference of the community voice.

I hope you will also consider resteeming this post, as the more people that voice their opinion the better.

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It's obvious to not give Justin Sun a hard fork that compromises the security of Steem to bail out his exchange buddies. This would include a 4 week powerdown which does not have a community consensus, and Justin doesn't count as community after attacking the network.

If Justin promised his exchange buddies that if they powered up their customer's funds to attack Steem he'd be able to get it back to them quickly, well that's just too bad. It's between him and those exchanges.

The exchanges powered up their customer's funds to attack Steem under current consensus rule of a 13-week power down and they can abide by those rules. Exchanges should begin power downs now to get liquidity for their customers ASAP. There should be plenty of liquid tokens available to them after just one week.

Edit: and I had some idea they had a lot of tokens liquid already but I checked again and all three of the exchanges that were used by Justin to attack Steem have plenty of liquidity.

Binance: 863,101 STEEM
Huobi: 2,042,430 plus 2,091,683 = 4,134,113 STEEM
Poloniex: 498,420 STEEM, not that anyone actually uses it

But

All of this begging witnesses to hurry up with a hard fork to accommodate exchanges that collaborated with Justin to attack Steem is likely misdirection.

The real goal is likely to enable a fast power down of the Steemit Inc. accounts.

The real goal is likely to enable a fast power down of the Steemit Inc. accounts.

That’s actually what I’d prefer as a “compromise!” Justin wants to bail out the exchanges and says he has no interest in governance, we want his governance revoked/reduced.

If the witnesses take the risk of rushing a hard fork, I think the position should be to apply the accelerated power down only to Sun’s accounts and not the exchanges. Let him move liquid Steem to the exchanges he made promises to as that’s his responsibility to backstop their liquidity while they power down. If he’s unwilling to do this then he’s clearly continuing to lie about his intentions and unwilling to make good on his personal guarantee to the exchanges he misled/coerced.

so it would be safe to say you would opt for keeping the power down at 13 weeks - go place your vote :-)

Probably. Although I also have something else to say. I know that the square does not fit the circle, but I still have hope that Justin Sun can change for the better. He is only 29 years old after all (he was born on 1990 July 10). He will achieve great things with Steemit, if he do change for the better. Enemies can turn into friends. And of course friends to enemies too. Maybe Justin Sun will realize that he can do much more with Steemit than just to milk it.

  1. Leave the current 13-week power down in play

The exchanges rushed into a situation without fully understanding it.

I can't see how that is our problem.

This!

No special treatment!

I say keep the 13 week powerdown.

Remember they are playing to win.

This was a HOSTILE ACT AGAINST STEEM! However we don't have to be dicks about it.

They, the exchanges made a strategic mistake while executing a HOSTILE TAKEOVER! Face it HOSTILE!

We don't need to apologize for that and we don't need to help them fix it.
And we don't need to be dicks about it either.

We just need say "sorry but no."

Then say "So what's next item on your list, Justin?"

Oh ya I forgot to add.

When the exchanges buy the steem they need to satisfy customer withdrawals from the open market, the price of steem goes up!

When the internet sees we have successfully defended ourselves from a hostile takeover, the price of steem goes up.

We can only lose from here.

In other words.
We have already won.

We just need to hold the line.

No compromise on the power down. The entire point of the power down period is to prevent the non-committed such as exchanges from being able to make these kinds of plays. 13 weeks powerdown is the smart contract they signed with their keys when they powered up.

We are in this mess because of a one-off rule effecting an individual account of steem, ninja mined or not it was a one off solution, so no. No!!! No exception to the power down rules. Prior to steemit being sold, the promise was the next hard fork would be the SMT stand alone Hard Fork, and that is what should be done. We have seen in the past how changing to many parts of the code has not worked out. When you power steem up I believe all the wallets tell you there is a 13 week power down, if they did not read or did not understand it to bad.

FOR NOW (since Justy likes this phrase)
Leave it at 13 weeks. A complete test of a hard fork can be built and tested, once Consensus Witnesses are in place.

I feel like the Exchanges are hold Steem Community, AND their own customers' assets hostage. What prohibits them from Powering down NOW? Why not start? ONCE a complete build happens, and it TESTED, Exchanges can always stop a power down, and restart. But no... why not POWER DOWN, now, and stop holding a sword over clients and Steem Community members, with an unspoken threat?

I now have over 6,000 steem held hostage at binance.com, right now.

Day 2 of the Binance BANK RUN

I am sorry.
Keep reminding them on Tiwtter daily. it seems to be affecting the narrative.

Their choice, their problem

If the powered down already they would have had a reasonable amount of liquidity already! Why don’t the witnesses just give a written agreement that nothing will happen to their funds since that’s the argument they have now!

I feel Roys arguments were too sketchy! Tron Super reps rolled over, BitTorrent employees rolled over, so did dLive I’d rather they just take it by force which To be honest I think they will!

They’ll pay off some witnesses get this fork through and get their way this is all just talk they getting their way one way or another

I agree. There is no need for us to take any action. It sucks that there is that much stake locked up of user funds but obviously the exchanges have no interest in that which also means they could not care less if they lose everything which will in the end get pinned on the witnesses for freezing assets.

I don't think that they even understand the mechanics of a fucking power down! lol
(I'm serious,after listening to roy yesterday)

1/13th every week gives them ample liquidity.

Yeah, but it is not about liquidity even if he wants to make it appear like it.
The exchanges can buy all liquid steem on other exchanges if they have to fulfill customer withdrawals.
I think their only concern is that 32 Million steem might be somehow lost forever (by hacking or malicous actions by anyone (like some of the witnesses who have shown to be really butthurt)). If the steem is somehow lost, they can never get back customers' funds, because there is not enough liquid steem left. This might imply horrendous legal consequences as the powerup was illegal and losing customer funds in a voluntary and illegal action is probably their worst nightmare. Getting sued into bankruptcy is likely the biggest concern.

I want to see all the snakes bankrupt and in prison.

This.
They want out ASAP without repercussions.
A regular power down is the quickest, and easiest, way to do it!

So it's a matter of trust in other words!

Or lack of it.

Based on what the witnesses said programming and testing a HF would take longer anyway and rushing a HF is stupid.

They did something deeply wrong. We have no reason to let them off easy.

If they power down now, they’ll have 1/13th of the Steem back in a week.

Exactly. The simplest an easiest solution, without any hassles.

The exchanges need to suck it up. They abused their standing to help out Justin. I hope his 30 pieces of silver keeps them happy for 13 weeks.

F-that I'll keep the silver. They can have fiat.

I vote 1. as it reduces the chance that the exchanges will do this again in the future. Although, they could just vote again now (in a couple of weeks to give Sun a chance to code a hardfork) and reduce the powerdown to allow themselves to get out. But once our witnesses regain consensus we need to fork to stop the exchanges from doing this again, if possible.

yes 1. i was not sure if to subcomment or make a separate comment? anyways if massive amounts of steem can be liquid at once and sold then it may induce massive volatility to the steem price which will drain our assets.

My vote goes to this one.

Leave it at 13 weeks - that forces the exchanges to start their powerdown now instead of just holding out for a fork.

And maybe people should consider pulling all their coins from the offending exchanges, not just their steem, and launching a lawsuit. The entire crypto space keeps getting periodically ruined by dodgy exchanges, so if the steem community can take these ones down or at least ruin their reputations permanently, so much the better.

Edit: Just to add to my comment:

Binance has just applied for an operating licence from Singapore. See

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-16/binance-applied-for-singapore-s-new-crypto-license-ceo-says

I don't see why witnesses can't contact the Singaporean authorities and lodge objections to Binance getting it's licence. It's important for Binance to understand that if they pull dodgy stuff, there are painful consequences.

Ah, I see I have to vote here. I already commented, but here's where my vote is.

Leave the 13-week power down as it is. Let them sort their own mess.

they will not go bankrupt by Steem, let them learn their lesson

2 Allow Exchanges to carry out a once-off power down within 4 weeks

For what reason?
Why pander to their monumental screw up?
It makes no sense, sorry.
(after listening to roy, I don't think they even understand the mechanics of a power down _ i'm serious)
If they had started a power down straight away, they'd already have 1/13 by now.
7.6 % per week is fine.

I'm willing to start discussing in June, but not now, when it would benefit attackers.

Could have done this on Dpoll...

Posted using Partiko Android

I agree.

Yep.

4 weeks could be the best they should get...and for everyone else too..

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FOUR. Every account gets a 4 week powerdown

IMO, those exchanges were powered because he wants the insta PD not just for exchange accounts, but for his newly purchased accounts too.

I'm not for changing the rules for a select few accounts, but would side with a compromise giving all accounts the same 4 week ability.

Jesus you have to be difficult, pick from one above. What happens with the chain and ongoing power-downs can be discussed separately, I know 4 weeks were up for discussion anyway

That's why I think it could be a workable compromise.

I don't support any of those options :P

I wish I understood what this means.

I know what's going on with the sale to tron- but it seems I'm going to be reading a lot more on this today.

I've reesteemed- what I do understand from previous posts leads me to comprehend the importance of what is happening right now.

My reesteem is nothing seeing that I'm no one in the overall scheme of steem (on the larger scale), but I want to show support.

Posted using Partiko Android

You take that self defeating nonsense and chuck it out the window. You hold Steem? Your voice matters. Even if there are louder ones.

And Resteems help push a post to the trending section, too. See? Your actions do have value!

😳 well then. You certainly have a point.

It's unlike me to forget that strength comes with many in solidarity- no matter how big or small.

♨‼

Posted using Partiko Android

When the Gauls at the gate ask if we're all standing together, what do we say?

you goddamn right.gif

I think it is absolutely critical for the Tron group to understand that the existing 13 week system provides them with a safe secure way of moving funds to exchanges.

The community has been discussing a shorter power down period to be more attractive to investors and those discussions should continue. Once consensus is reached a properly tested hardfork can be deployed to implement the community decision.

Right now to properly deploy a hardfork for a shorter power down would take a few weeks and the exchanges (or anyone else) could be well on the way to moving their funds to the exchanges.

But they need to start the power down for that to happen.

Starting the power down now will not impact them if a decision is made to deploy a hardfork and allow them to power down faster. It would be just a matter of stopping the existing power down and restarting with the new.

In the meantime they would be moving funds now. Safely and securely.

I don't think that they even understand the mechanics of a fucking power down! lol
(I'm serious,after listening to roy yesterday)

We need to keep the 13 week powerdown so they do not feel they can throw their weight around and get a bailout again. Everyone knew what they were doing, no one counted on the community being so strong. Do not back down, it would be a mistake.

3 Allow Exchanges to carry out a once-off power down within 7 days.

I agree with this.
And for future discussions I'd like to propose this:

  • Steemit accounts will lose the rights to vote for witnesses and proposals.
  • Only steemit accounts will have a specific time for power down: 2 years (24 intervals of 1 month each one).
  • Justin is free to use the tokens at will. He will not be committed to anything in particular.

All of us need to go to an intermediate point. Justin will have what he wants (property of tokens) but he will need to wait.
The community will recover the previous governance, but in exchange they don't force the statements made in the past by Ned.

1

I was told to do due diligence before investing by this very community a while back and so it's a 1 for me.

It can't be asap or when Justin commands us to run a hardfork.

Hardforks are heavy actions that require heavy testing on testnet before applying. Also, all exchanges will be required to update their nodes too.

There are reasons that we don't apply hardforks so often.

Steemit only has @justinw left.

I like option 2 the best. It is the best compromise.

Well, let me ask this, aren't we already on two of the three exchanges?

  1. Justin can't be trusted, I don't believe a word he's saying.
  2. No one forced the exchanges to do stupid things. Let them clean up their mess. I'm voting for 13 weeks.

I agree on 2

Get this man (Justin Sun) a seat on Oprah. He would get a glance at what he should do with his huge amount of money. Yes, I am talking about Oprah Gail Winfrey. A philanthropist with a net worth of $2.7 billion USD (2020).
Justin Sun is in the perfect position with Steemit and with his huge amount of Steem Power. Steemit and the Steem blockchain could literally change (improve) the lives of a lot of people. He only need to do the right things.
The right things would really make the whole Steem blockchain well recognized and even loved by many people. The right things. Not forcefully replacing the top 20 Steem witnesses, and trying to centralize the whole Steem blockchain in his own hands.

1!
no preferential treatment for businesses. SP is meant to take long to power down to decrease volatility.

Option 1. Same deal for everybody. They should know how a powerdown works.

I am still of the opinion that we should have a 4 week powerdown for everybody.
There is no reason to treat exchanges differently.
After all they deliberately locked customer funds for 13 weeks in order to screw over Steem governance.

They should know how a powerdown works.

After listening to roy yesterday, I really think that they don't know how it works. Crazy.

  1. Leave the current 13-week power down in play

Considering anything else to bail out Justin Sun's exchange buddies is downright ridiculous. The security of the chain should not be impacted any more than it has by the decisions of those who colluded to try and take over the chain.

Rewards and positive discrimination are for those who behave properly and deserve them.
I can understand the situation and how exceptional it can be but even though... if someone gets special treatment it's unfair for the rest of the community.
Anyone who wants or needs to power down for some critial reason has to wait 13 weeks. If exceptions are made EVERYONE gets the right to ask for the same treatment. We don't have to lose integrity because some external actors that tried to harm us are now asking for favors.

Recently we were discussing the reduction of the powerdown period. It was decided it wouldn't be integrated in the next (now previous) HF but we'd resume the discussion after. If there were already a decision we could try to accomodate this request and act fast to implement it, but that is not the case.

Why has Bernie flagged this?

Apparently he doesn't understand that on Steem it's not only the stake that matters. He commented.

I can't see his comment, so thanks!

So is he in the camp that Justin can do WTF he wants with his stake?

He writes in such an offensive way that I can't actually face reading what he writes to find out what it is he actually believes.

Nah, I don't believe he supports JS. He just looks down on others.

Here's what he commented:

I love when people with 0 say make polls like they actually matter.

Because he does not like me, no other reason.

Given all the complications of a hasty fork, I'd go for 1. In the future, I'd explore a better system to satisfy more steemians while also not compromising our governance, security or opening up doors for abuse, something the former employees of Steemit, Inc. already proposed as a solution AFTER the hardfork for SMTs, given the split support for and against the reduction of the power down period to 4 weeks.

Leave it at 13 weeks and add a fee - ninja mined stake should go into a community controlled account to act as a fund and to finally have a purpose and a positive influence.

Congratulations @paulag!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 7 with 75 comments

Option 3 - short PowerPoint for everyone. You should have access to your stake with reasonable notice. 13 weeks is not too much of a disincentive.

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I like what abh12345 proposed. But, if I have to pick one of the three options then... After reading a bunch of comments I would go with #1.

Seems like there's still a lot fishy going on and I think we should keep our leverage until better negotions happen and perhaps a contract can be worked out since there seems to be such a lack of trust.

Hey @paulag, are you still interested in buying Steem (just over 50 is what I have)? I thought I'd ask as I need to cash out to put it toward my first aid kit fund. I've done this before with a few other Steemians if you want a reference. If so, I'm on Discord at FirebirdVelitas#4492. Thanks! :)

not at the moment, but next time I have cash i will contact you and see if you are selling then. sorry!

No worries, just thought I'd check since you had posted about it before!

No worries, just thought
I'd check since you had posted
About it before!

                 - phoenixwren


I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

I love when people with 0 say make polls like they actually matter.