Vault Dividends: Clarification and Conclusion
It's been 3 days since I've powered up to 23k exactly.
I've made 4 Steem that can't be downvoted in that time.
Cool beans.
(days/year) * interest rate * 23000 = 4
(3/365) * x * 23000 = 4
x = 0.02116
So Steemit Inc. says the interest rate should be about 2.19%.
The number I've calculated (2.12%) is very close to that considering how liberal I'm being with the numbers. Truth be told I don't understand why it's that's high. 15% of Steem's inflation is supposed to go into this, and Steem has less than 10% inflation, so I would expect the APR to be less than 1.5%.
Oh... never mind.
Okay so I'm assuming that 100% of all coins are powered up. The less people power up coins, the higher our vote power is and the higher our dividend APR is. Liquid coins still generate inflation that are then controlled by users who hold non-liquid coins (and witnesses). Therefore, because only 62% of Steem is actually powered up, we get a bit of a bonus there. This is where the variability comes into play.
The higher our dividend APR...
This is why my idea is such a good one. Say we transfer that 15% inflation to the bank accounts, how much would the APR be then? Instead of calculating the interest using the 62% of all Steem powered up, we'd be using the percentage of coins being stored in the bank account. This number would be a lot lot lower.
Speculation
Say there were only 10 million coins stored in the bank accounts. That would be 3% our total supply in these accounts. Assuming Steem's inflation rate was something like 8% we could legitimately make the claim that our APR was much much higher.
0.15 * 0.08 / 0.03 = 40%
See that? If only 10 million coins were stored in the bank accounts after implementing this solution we'd be offering 40% passive APR. That's insane.
And also not sustainable.
Obviously, if the APR was this high many more people would be motivated to transfer funds to the bank accounts, diluting the APR rate. However, even if there were 40 million coins transferred to these accounts we'd still be able to say we were providing a 10% return, which is still pretty damn amazing. It's a marketing dream, truly. We can 'magically' turn that 2% into a much higher number.
What happens if those 40 million coins were taken directly out of our powered up supply? All of a sudden, everyone who still has powered up coins has a lot more vests per coin. Our upvote power would go up without the price of Steem going up. Pretty bad ass. On paper, it looks like everyone wins, even if there are some drawbacks behind the scenes. (like no longer getting the APR for powering up)
However, I hardly think that matters... because people don't really notice the APR as it stands now. They sure as hell would if they were getting a 10% return instead of 2%.
I don't give two shits about those 4 coins I just generated passively. Do you? I'd much rather have that inflation allocated to the bank accounts where they belong to increase the total value of the platform using a model that normal folks understand: bank accounts that pay dividends.
What happens if that 40 million got taken out of the liquid supply instead of the powered up supply? Well, that would be even better, because as @penguinpablo reports on a weekly basis, there are currently only 95 million coins on the exchanges. This reduction in supply of Steem would greatly increase the base value of all coins, which is far more important than our measly inflation rates and dividend payouts.
We all know that Steem can go x100. It's literally already happened. Mechanics like this will make it happen again.
Obviously what would happen in reality would be a combination of the two. Liquid coins would be transferred to the bank accounts, and powered up coins would be powered down and transferred to the bank accounts. I have no idea what those percentages would look like, but I imagine a lot of liquid coins would get locked into the bank, because the commitment is 3 days vs 13 weeks. This is the main reason why someone wouldn't want to power up in the first place.
In addition, some users just prefer passive income.
It's passive. It's easy. People understand it. It fits in perfectly with the current UX. We need to be thinking about what the average person wants sometimes, not what all us fringe people are used to. Simplification is king.
Very fun but impossible speculation.
Let's say 104 million coins gets powered down and then pumped into the bank accounts using this incentive. We'd still be offering around 5% APR on the bank accounts, yet everyone's upvote would be straight up doubled in value.
Think this speculation is actually ridiculous? Because it's totally not. If 50 million of those coins instead came from powerups and 50 million coins came from the liquid supply, our upvotes would likely more than double due to the USD value of Steem going up.
Conclusion
Steem bank accounts have already been implemented (since inception) and we are foolishly allocating our interest rates to people who are powering up rather than people who want passive dividends. It's hard to fathom why no one is talking about this issue. I find it very frustrating.
Everyone understands that a bank account should have dividends, and Steem can prove that we can offer a deal that is magnitudes greater than any conventional bank. In the face of negative interest rates, the time to fix this problem is now.
I can all but guarantee that this diversion of inflation would be good for literally every single person on the platform. The likelihood that it creates a scenario where more money is allocated to the bank accounts than there should be is very very high. Users will pay a premium for the convenience of passive income, and all we have to do is take away a measly 2% APR from active community members, while simultaneously increasing the overall value of the platform by much more than that.
This is a no-brainer.
I will die on this hill.
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 5/20 - need recharge?)
I love to have the actual 2%.
Posted using Partiko Android
You forgot to say that you don't want the 10%,
and all the other gains that come with it.
Two parts to this story.
It should be two parts of the story.
Cuz I think only circle jerks wanna change the power-down time from 13 to 4 weeks, which is now being pushed..
If it was two parts, we wouldnt need to change that. Right the opposite, it incentivites more to build up a stake.. which then makes the 13 weeks better again, cuz it makes the whole ecosystem more secure against price manipulation.
Circle jerks are a big problem here, only a game of power and influence.
Yea. But you could fix it easily if the devs spend some time learning game theory. :)
To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.
Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.
Yeah, this is far from obvious. Took me a long time to noodle it but it did eventually make sense:
https://www.palnet.io/steemleo/@preparedwombat/3vs4h1-the-steem-power-you-earn-for-holding-steem-power-revised
(Revived and Will be Revived, Sometimes To DownVoters' Readers, Voted and Related Accounts, For Freedom of Speech, Right for Writings to Survive, Right to Show both Pros and Cons.
언론의 자유와 글의 생존권, 찬반 양론이 모두 보여질 수 있는 권리를 위하여, 다운보팅 학살에서 재생되었고, 재생될 것이다. 가끔, 학살자들의 독자나 보팅자들, 관련계정들에게 제공된다.)
[Steem : For Freedom] Code Of Conduct : DownVote DownVoting-ManSlaughterers. List Update v.4.1 .2 행동수칙 : 다운보팅 학살자를 다운보팅 하자.
( https://steemit.com/engrave/@bewarecenterbase/steem-for-freedom-downvote-downvoting-manslaughterers-list-update-v41-1-haengdongsucig-daunboting-hagsaljareul-daunboting-haja )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-for-freedom-code-of-conduct-downvote-downvoting-manslaughterers-list-update-v-4-1-2 )
2019.11.16.Sat.16:11 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase,
==
For Freedom Of Speech,
_1. Let's Down-Vote DownVoting-ManSlaughterers.
The followings are known Content-Nazi
and Commie People's Court Bamboo Spear Red Guard Man-Slaughters
If you like, select anyone below and
DownVote Now and Anytime.
.
@oldstone =@slowwalker =@wisdomandjustice =@photoholic =@ilovemylife, (=@veronicalee ) : kr worst man-slaughterer.
@howo = @steempress : Content-Nazi by day, Commie Bamboo-Spear by night, All time Man-Slaughterer.
@patrice=@spaminator=@prowler=@mack-bot=@mack-botjr =@mack-fund : worst man-slaughterer, biggest enemy of Steem; but nowhere to downvote.
@steemcleaners, @ety001, @justyy, @oflyhigh, @cheetah, , : Evil profit assholes of @spaminator group : @adm, @pfunk ; Lots place to DownVote.
@buildawhale group :
@blocktrades, @themarkymark, @buildawhale, @steemflagrewards,@blocktrades, @photovisions, @steemitworldmap, @magicmonk, @inertia, @planetauto, @scottcbusiness, @steembasicincome, @steeminator3000, @thelifeofjord, @dmitrydao, @dedicatedguy, @leo.syndication, @curie, @elsiekjay, @juancar347, @jongolson, @cheetah, @anthonyadavisii, @jpphotography, @cryptoandcoffee, @thegreens,, @minismallholding, @enjoyinglife, @andrianna,
@roundbeargames, @elenasteem, @thekitchenfairy, @steemcleaners, @h-hamilton, @world-travel-pro, @qurator, @freedompoint, @derangedvisions, @balticbadger, @jenina619, @slobberchops, @meesterboom, @jodipamungkas, @nickyhavey, @isaria, @scaredycatguide, @neoxian-city, @sjarvie5, @jlsplatts, @alcibiades, @steemauto, @truce, @uwelang, @edgarsart, @soyrosa, @jenina619, enjar, @crimsonclad, @acidyo, @stickyfingerz, @jordangerder, @holoz0r, @coingecko, @joythewanderer, @snook, @c0ff33a, @abh12345, @elenasteem, @preparedwombat, @lightcaptured, @sjarvie5, @fredrikaa, @worldcapture, @elizacheng, @world-travel-pro, @bengy, @davedickeyyall, @steemer-sayu907, @porters, @culgin, @budapestguide, @barski, @eugelys, @ginnyannette, @kommienezuspadt, @carlgnash, @wildhomesteading, @midlet, @thelifeofjord, @slobberchops, @zpzn, @blewitt, @jenina619,
@clayop : kr top witness, Commie Bamboo-Spear to the bones, disguised good writing advocate for his own hidden interests.
@ibc, @condeas, @linuxbot, @astrophoto.kevin, : German Content-Nazi,
@jacobtothe,
@smartsteem,
@smooth = @smooth.witness,
@corn113, @steemitlsh, @westport, @himapan, @eversloth : kr Commie Bamboo-spear.
@steemflagrewards and supporters of this dent of man-slaughterers :
@lukestokes.mhth, @yabapmatt, @themarkymark, @cervantes, @pjau, @pfunk,
@patrice, @guiltyparties
--
(You can be deListed
if you comment that you promise and keep that you won't downvote
Except strictly illegal writings such as plagiarism, copyright infringement, human/drug/weapons trafficking, kid porno etc.
Self-Vote is Fair Reward for investment and deligence.
Farming is Not Stealing, but
DownVote is robbery, bully, bamboo-spearing, man-slaughterering. )
_2. Remove From Witness Support and Down-Vote
@patrice, @themarkymark, are the worst witness to drop
@steempress, @smooth.witness,
@clayop : kr top witness, Commie Bamboo-Spear to the bones, disguised good writing advocate for his own hidden interests.
@clayop, @asbear, @ocd-witness, @ats-witness , @noblewitness=@sircork
--
Top Witnesses who are for Down-Vote-Pool HardForks.
@roelandp, @yabapmatt, @good-karma, @gtg, @blocktrades,
@themarkymark, @someguy123, @cervantes, @aggroed, @smooth.witness,
@therealwolf, @anyx, @ocd-witness, @timcliff, @ausbitbank,
@curie, @thecryptodrive, @followbtcnews, @clayop, @drakos,
@lukestokes.mhth, @jesta, @steempress,
@xeldal, @emrebeyler,@liondani, @riverhead, @actifit, @busy.witness, @bhuz,
And
_3. DownVote-Hide their comments,
which can make them self-voters and then downvoted by themselves among man-slaughterers.
_4. Write Much More, Even Copy and Paste, to Dry-Up DownVoting-ManSlaughterers' Power,
_5. Be Proud of Negative Reputation.
If your writing is automatically hidden, Show your writings to Man-Slaughterers' Readers or UpVoted Individually.
It's the Auto-Hidden Writers' Right, To show Writings individually.
Copy and Paste your Hidden Writings to Man-Sluaghterers' Every Posts, Comment, and Every Readers' or UpVoted's Writings, individually.
_6. Make Much More Accounts to Fight For Freedom.
_7. Automate Resistance Process.
Or At least Make it Easy, Just Spread Your Writings, Copy and Paste
until DownVote Function is Removed From Steem.
_8. Make Situations Complex, To Kill Man-Slaughtering Bots and Programmers.
Vary Self-Vote or Not, Voting %, Voting Time etc.
.
_9. Repeat Persistently As Above, if you love Steem
.
Or If you dislike battle field,
_10. Leave Steem and Never Look Back,
until you hear No-DownVote HardFork and Steem becomes peaceful place.
.
--
(This Writing is Copy-Left by @BewareCenterBase.
You can Copy-And-Paste anywhere in Steem
For Freedom of Speech and To Remove DownVote Function From Steem.
and to Make Steem Peaceful Place. )
==
Korean Verion. Latest List is above. 한글판, 최신 목록은 위에 있음.
--
[steem蟲:HF21] 남아썩는 다운보팅 파워로, 무엇을 다운보팅 할 것인가? [steem:HF21] What to Down-Vote with HF21 Down-Vote Power ?
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/2cbcn-steem-hf21-steem-hf21-what-to-down-vote-with-hf21-down-vote-power )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/2cbcn-steem-hf21-steem-hf21-what-to-down-vote-with-hf21-down-vote-power )
2019.08.28.수.08:45, by @BewareCenterBase,
Steem Hard Fork 21 ( 이하 HF21)
에서는
다운보팅 파워가 도입되어,
기존 HF20 이전에서
업보팅 파워를 소모하여 다운보팅 할 수 있도록 한 것에서,
다운보팅을 업보팅과 별도의 파워를 사용하여 할 수 있도록 하였다.
관련 글들은
이 글의 아래 목록에서 찾아 볼 수 있다.
https://steemd.com/@accountname
에서는
hf21 에서 도입된 다운보트 파워
잔량과 회복을
보팅 파워 와 마찬가지로
확인할수 있다.
자, 여기서 남는 문제.
남아서 섞어 나가는 다운보팅 파워를 어디에 쓸 것인가?
_1.
탈중앙 매체에서 불가피한 다운보팅의 원래 취지대로,
스팀 블록체인의 생존성을 위협하게될 수 있는,
저작권 위반 이나, 아동 포로노, 해킹, 스캠 피싱 등의 사기 유도 글
등을 다운보팅 하라
는 것일 것이다.
그런 글들이 보인다면, 다운보팅 하면 된다.
그러나, 그런 글들은 많지 않다.
_2.
그래도 남아서 썩어나가는 다운보팅 파워는
자뻑 정의감에서 남의 글을 다운보팅 학살하는
컨텐츠 나찌나 인민재판 공산 죽창
다운보팅 학살자들을 다운보팅 하면 된다고 본다.
이것은 다운보팅 전쟁을 촉발할 것이지만,
다운보팅 학살자들의 나쁜짓을 통제할 방법은
이 취지에 공감하는 사람들이
그 다운보팅 학살자들을 다운보팅 하는 것이
불가피한 선택으로 보인다.
다운보팅해야할 다운보팅 학살자들의 목록을 공표해 나갈 것이다.
일단은
@oldstone=@slowwalker=@wisdomandjustice
@patrice=@spaminator=@prowler=@mack-bot=@mack-botjr =@mack-fund
Witness to drop and to Down-vote :
@patrice, @themarkymark, are the worst witness to drop
@clayop, @asbear, @ocd-witness, @ats-witness , @noblewitness=@sircork
_3.
기술의 한계가 있으면 기술 개발과 노오오오력으로써
극복할 생각을 하지 않고,
다운보팅을 권장하여,
스팀 투자자 및 스팀 사용자들의 감정을 학살하여
스팀에서 쫓아내는 스팀 최악의 적들을 다운보팅 해야한다고 본다.
그들은
스팀 개발자들, 스팀 재단, 스팀잇 회사 관계자들,
다운보팅 풀 도입에 찬성한 스팀 증인들
목록은 갱신해 나갈 것이고,
일단 상위 30위 증인들 중에서 hf21 down-vote 를 지원하고 있는 29 명의 목록을 준다.
@roelandp, @yabapmatt, @good-karma, @gtg, @blocktrades,
@themarkymark, @someguy123, @cervantes, @aggroed, @smooth.witness,
@therealwolf, @anyx, @ocd-witness, @timcliff, @ausbitbank,
@curie, @thecryptodrive, @followbtcnews, @clayop, @drakos,
@lukestokes.mhth, @jesta, @steempress,
@xeldal, @emrebeyler,@liondani, @riverhead, @actifit, @busy.witness, @bhuz,
심심할 때, 무작위로 눌러서, 다운보팅의 맛을 보여주시라.
혹시 보복이 올 것이 두려운가?
자유와 언론의 자유는 그냥 얻어지지 않는다.
많은 피래미들이 벌떼처럼 다운보팅한다면,
고래 증인들도 대응 방법이 없을 것이고,
다운보팅 기능을 없애는 쪽으로 가게 될 것이다.
그래도 두려운가?
겁장이들은, 두려우면 빠지면 된다. ㅋㅋ
==
[ Related Writings : 관련 글 ]
Related Writings List below maybe cut due to size limitation <14k in comment.
More related writings can be seen at the original address above
아래 관련글 목록은 댓글 <14k 크기 제한으로 잘렸을 수 있습니다.
위 원문 주소에서 관련글 볼수 있습니다.
(Up To Here, Can be Copy and Pasted. < 14 k by Size )
Will be Arranged later.
여기까지 댓글에 복사하여 붙여넣기 가능함. < 14k 사이즈.
나중에 정리될 것임.
==
[Steem: deMerit] Down-vote is Evil Political Solution to Technical Shortcomings. [스팀蟲: 단점] 다운보팅은 기술 부족에 대한 사악한 정치적 해법.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-down-vote-is-evil-political-solution-to-technical-shortcomings )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-down-vote-is-evil-political-solution-to-technical-shortcomings )
2019.09.11.Wed, 06:26 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
[Steem: deMerit] Steem is Not Currency when DownVote Denies Currency's Characters such as Private Property Right and Liberty of Contract. [스팀蟲: 단점] 다운보팅으로 사유재산과 계약자유 부정하는 스팀은 화폐가 아니다.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-is-not-currency-when-downvote-denies-currency-s-characters-such-as-private-property-right-and-liberty-of )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-is-not-currency-when-downvote-denies-currency-s-characters-such-as-private-property-right-and-liberty-of )
2019.09.11.Wed, 06:53 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
[Steem: deMerit] Steem with DownVote is not Money or Currency. [스팀蟲: 단점] 다운보팅 있는 스팀은 화폐가 아니다.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-not-money-or-currency )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-not-money-or-currency )
2019.09.16.Mon, 17:53 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
[Steem: deMerit] Steem with DownVote is Shit, not Money. [스팀蟲: 단점] 다운보팅 있는 스팀은 똥 이다, 화폐가 아니다.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-shit )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-shit )
2019.09.17.Tue, 06:42 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
[Steem: deMerit] Steem with DownVote is not Money or Currency (2/n) - Bank Analogy. [스팀蟲: 단점] 다운보팅 있는 스팀은 화폐가 아니다. 은행 사례.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-not-money-or-currency-2-n-bank-analogy )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-steem-with-downvote-is-not-money-or-currency-2-n-bank-analogy )
2019.09.23.Mon, 13:19 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
--
[Steem: deMerit] How to view Steem is, Not by whitepaper's forcing, but by each user's free perception. [스팀蟲: 단점] 스팀을 어떻게 볼 것인가는 백서의 강요가 아니라, 각자 자유 인식에 의해서이다.
( https://steemit.com/kr/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-how-to-view-steem-is-not-by-whitepaper-s-forcing-but-by-each-user-s-free-perception )
( https://staging.busy.org/@bewarecenterbase/steem-demerit-how-to-view-steem-is-not-by-whitepaper-s-forcing-but-by-each-user-s-free-perception )
2019.09.17.Tue, 08:01 (utc+9), by @BewareCenterBase
Good thinking.
!BEER
Good luck getting it past the not my idea crowd.
touche
View or trade
BEER.Hey @edicted, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @freebornangel for you. Enjoy it!Damn
I don’t know where you find out these things and shape them into this essay, but it’s very convincing!
You have my vote.
I would love to see sp inflation go to 0% - we can still make bank from crearive Author and curation rewards.
Then I would like to see the steem bank get it or some portion of it.
The idea would be to have the sp to steem powerdown stay at 13 weeks and then given people the inflation who want more liquidity ~ bank withdrawl time can be set from 1 day to whatever (or keep at 3 days), but interest starts from midnight utc and is paid once a day at 235959utc.
Its basically exactly what you describe....
I think it is a good compromise instead of that top '
proposal' right now. Which seeks to turn steempower into a short term investmemt and seems to favor scammers, account resetting, people reaping quick rewards, etc.
Make a proposal!
Tell all them witnesses!
Looking at the upcoming negative interest rates. This is one of our chances!
We'd be fools not to use it!
It will not only give all those circle jerks an option to invest and generate roi without leeching off the reward pool (cuz in the 50/50 hf circle jerks werent addressed), but also incentivises outside investors or even normal people, due to the upcoming worldwide negative interest rates, to invest.
Meanwhile we're going to change the powerdown from 13 weeks to 4.
We need to make up our mind whether we want (or are expecting) people to lock their crypto up, or whether we want to let them remain liquid.
No point fighting against the tide if it's going against you.....
This idea is totally in sync with the idea that we need more stake-lock options that allow users to take advantage of the platform without over-committing. Not sure why youre claiming the opposite.
I'm not claiming anything. I'm just pointing out that there is a change very likely to happen that is related and then hinting that we should figure out holistically what we're really trying to achieve before pushing through multiple (related) changes.
Why do you think so?
It's essentially Steemit Inc's decision. No one else has the expertise to push a hard-fork and have it approved by the witnesses.
It's a very inconsequential change IMO. It still takes a week to get a chunk of coins. They are making that chunk much bigger? Shouldn't matter to a lot of stake holders. Often the 1/13th of the total coins is more than they wanted to take out in the first place. The slow payout promotes making more informed decisions not based on tilted in-the-moment FUD/FOMO plays.
It is currently the top voted Worker Proposal that you can see on the list HERE
I was of the impression that the proposal system and steem.dao was intended to decentralise the development dependency away from steemit. From memory I also thought the last HF had significant development resources provided from the Build Team rather than steemit.
I admit, I may be wrong on this and up until recently the only ones with expertise to push a HF through is steemit but I didn't think this was the way the blockchain was heading.
Well, most of these are technical stuff I don't understand. But I believe earning from Author and Curation rewards is better than earning by the interest rate.
Hmmmm
So by looking at your dividend and knowIng the official dividend rate you can calculate the dividend reward per 1000 SP which is the earnings return on our investment?’
How do you know when your rewarded a dividend? Does the Steem come from the Dteem Inc wallet?
If not all the Steem is powered up, that increases our actual dividend?
So the dividends come from the inflation pool in proportion to how much Steem you have Powered up?
So could you use the actual dividend percent versus the stated dividend percent to reverse calculate the total amount of Steem powered up Yes?!
Hmmm
Just playing with proportions
2.9% is to 23k Steem
What 2.5% is to total powered up Steem
So Steem held by others on exchanges increases my dividend right?
Thanks
Make a proposal man, that's the only way majority will be able to see it and discuss it as well..It's an awesome initiative as far as I'm concerned