On the "imminent death" of Steem-Engine // "overpriced tokens" of steem-engine // and the fate of steem-engine in a post SMT world

This is a common thread that I find out there. @steemitblog just launched a piece about SMTs. Now, I'm seeing these types of questions. So, I want a post to address it.

The general questions are "What's going to happen to steem-engine after SMTS come out? Are you just gonna die? Also, your pricing is way too high, who is gonna want your much more expensive and slower tokens when I can just get a cheap and quick SMT?"

Those are fair questions, and I thought I should answer them. In short:

We're not going to die. We're going to kick ass.
These tokens are still vastly cheaper.
We're a smart contract platform, we do shit steem/SMTs can't/don't.

We're not going to die

Steem-engine isn't in competition with steemit or smts. We're going to help launch them. Steemit may or may not have a place where you can create these tokens. You will likely need a site to help you with a graphical user interface for the experience of actually creating your smt especially if you're a non-dev trying to get in there. We hope to be one of the first ones helping people set these things up.

Steemit may think that adding SMTs should be super cheap. I don't . I think it needs a BURN to make people buy steem off the market and burn it so the price gets out of the shitter. I don't buy the argument that just making them cheap is the way to go. If you make SMTs through steem-engine.com you're gonna burn Steem. It'll be more than 3.

If you don't make them through steem-engine, and later want your smt listed on steem-engine guess what we're gonna make you do?

I currently think 100-1000 steem is the right burn amount. TBD. The token creator might be mildly pissed at me for this (they won't actually care because a successful token launch can bring in so much more than 100-1000 Steem that it's peanuts anyway). The rest of the community can thank me later.

These tokens are vastly cheaper

"Hey dickhead, 3100 ENG costs more than 3 steem. Are you stupid?"

No, I'm not stupid, and please don't call me a dickhead, but you need to remember something. Getting your token listed costs a metric fuckton. A friend of mine with a well known project recently started his own blockchain project. He took his project to lots of different exchanges. The price tag to get his token listed at the cheapest was 2 btc. At the more expensive ones it was 15btc. They also didn't like the chain he was using, so he'd have to make an erc20 out of it.

So, yes 3100 ENG >> 3 Steem
but 3100 ENG << 3 Steem + 2-15 BTC

So, I remain confidant that I'm currently ~$20k cheaper than the SMT option IF you want it listed and tradable somewhere (ie if you want anyone in the ecosystem to think your token has value).

Internal Market

"But aggroed, they'll make an internal market for these. That'll smoke your exchange too!"

Well again, things that function just like Steem can be traded there, and there will be some. But things like NFTs and securities likely won't be there. I think there will be enough missing and enough legal hurdles that will make it like the internal market now: A nice quiet place to trade, but unlikely to compete with real exchanges.

The other challenge is incentive. People beyond just me are pushing steem-engine all the time. There's incentive for us to do this. We make money. No one makes money by pushing the internal exchange. There's no incentive. So, even though it's cool it never really gets mass adopted. Maybe this will be different with a worker proposal or something, but I personally doubt it. And even if it happens, it's still just SMTs, and not all the other things we do/can do.

SMTS and Scot are not mutually exclusive

I think in the future people are highly likely to have a SMT and pegged Scot or Scot and Pegged SMT in the future. I'm betting both will be a part of life. They will have different complementary functions.

By the way, I run a business. If you create a 3-steem SMT I'm going to charge you somewhere in the vicinity of 3000 ENG to get deposits enabled on my exchange. Hint: it's still cheaper than 2 BTC. Double hint: It'll be cheaper to just make a Scot and have it appear automatically.

So, rerun your maffs people.

I'm going to create my own exchange with blackjack and SMTs so I don't have to pay your stupid listing fees

That's great. You can do that. You can use the code we have because it's all opensource. The license is friendly and will allow you to do that.

As it turns out making the marketplace/exchange isn't that hard. git clone is easy enough that even I can do it. A major hurdle is getting people to use it. Maintaining this thing is harder than it looks. Adding features via new devs isn't quite so simple as my haters like to imagine.

If there's someone rich and powerful with their own community it's possible steem-engine might actually lose that race, but barring that I think you'll find that starting from scratch against what we've built even by copying exactly what we've built without the people that built it or the relationships we have will bring you costs, wasted time, a good learning experience, and a few new friends. It will be a neat journey but unlikely to give you a competing exchange.

Can you think of an example of that already?

fruits and veggies

A potato generally ins't in competition with a strawberry. I mean, yeah they are two foods you can eat, but one is a fruit and one is a vegetable. Unless you're absolutely broke and starving you typically want both in your diet (shut up keto people, this isn't about you). They are different parts of your diet.

Well compare them anyway...

If you want an SMT that is exactly an SMT and want it to be on the base layer than SMTs are better than Scot.
If you want something with an SMT ability that has any capability beyond SMTs I think it's likely Scot will be better.

Why? We can code 10x faster than steemit or the steem community can. That's not a diss on devs. That's a reality of coding at the blockchain layer rather than coding on a layer 2. It's also JS vs C++. We're always (as long as we don't start to suck) going to have more and better features then them. They may incorporate things we do later, but it's my contention we'll always be steps ahead because our process involves the side chain.

As long as SMTs are black

Look, I like the Henry Ford quote to describe this. The Model T comes in whatever color you want so long as that color is black.

SMTs are a robust protocol. They do a lot of things, but they do exactly 1 robust thing. They are SMTs. If you want anything for your token beyond that then SMTs aren't going to do it or they aren't likely to do it for a long time.

Steem-engine is a smart contract platform. We're adding a recurring payment system and NFTs as two examples of things we can add before it's even on Steemit's radar (or the communities radar) as a thing to add.

So, if you want a token that functions pretty much exactly like Steem does in Steemit.com then SMTs are going to be better for you than Scot. If you want a token that can or will do anything beyond the scope of what's included in the SMT whitepaper it's my contention that Scot will be better.

Conclusion

We won't die. We're going to kick ass! SMTs that have value aren't going to be cheaper than Scot. We're going to stay ahead. These things are complimentary anyway.

I'll see you again soon at steem-engine.com

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Now, if you could just explain the whole cryptosphere in fruit and veggies terms, that would be really great for me. :D

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:)

People love to be negative but great entrepreneurs like you continue to bring out innovation and improvement at an extraordinary rate.

Keep up the good work. Steem Engine tokens are perfect for my purposes (tokenised litigation funding) and I plan to create plenty more of them in the future.

I look at the amount of time, money and developer effort it has taken Lawcoin (another tokenised litigation funding project) to create their tokens on the Ethereum blockchain and the superiority of Steem-Engine is self evident.

Every single thing I've looked at with Ethereum has baffled me. I'm not dumb but trying to understand where the "WHEN" tokens I know I got from Scott Adams are to be found on Metamask has me completely baffled.

Everything with Steem and Steem-Engine is as close to intuitive as possible: sending transfers to real, human readable names is so much better than the hex of other crypto.

Yup those human readable account names make EVERYTHING easier. ALSO there will be more than just steem-engine.com , we will have many front ends and maybe we can have @esteem-app @good-karma build Trading and steem engine tokens into their desktop wallet. we can and will have many desktop and mobiel wallets

@steempeak and its dev @asgarth will probz be closest to allowing market orders on their front end , or maybe at least staking and unstaking buttons :D

You have done great things for this community and continue to do so. There will always be those few that are pissed off because they missed the bus and the only ones they should be blaming are themselves. These are the people that wont end up getting anywhere in life to put in bluntly.

The biggest thing for me in this whole equation, is that Steem-Engine is here, and working and doing things. It has been implemented. People are creating tokens. And people are using the creation process and market. Steemit/Steem always seems to have been long on promises and painfully short (and delayed!) on actually delivering on those promises.

So beyond the valid points you bring up, with every day that passes Steem-Engine establishes a little more of that "First Mover Advantage" which tends to have a more far reaching impact on the business world than most are willing to give it credit for.

=^..^=

Glad to see you address these issues head on.. I've wondered but never quite got to the calling you a dickhead stage.. I personally think @steem-engine has been a breath of fresh air for the blockchain.. I'm enjoying the #newsteem as its been called. !tip

There are a lot of nay-says in this world, they will always find a reason to try and slight those who create new ways of doing things. I applaud what you have done for Steem. I'm excited about the communities that are emerging.

Shut up Keto people, this isnt about you
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Lol I bet you're right @aggroed you're going to kick asses for sure XD. Well explained. Steem Engine has utility and will have it still when SMT's are released, there are already some interesting tokens in it, with proyects that support this, they won't dissapear in a blink eye.

image.png
So far we only get this, not SMT.

I’m really looking forward to NFTs on Steem-engine. Have you got use cases lined up for that already? O and any progress on getting some liquidity for the pegged tokens, such as BTCP and EOSP? Keep up the great work.

SMT is decentralized.
Steem-engine tokens still centralized.

Read the Steem-Engine Updates from last week, that will be changed long before the SMTs are near the plate

The ‘burn steem to create tokens’ idea is my favorite idea for the steem ecosystem I have heard in a long time. I can’t think of a logical argument against burning steem for anyone who wants the value of their stake to increase

I think the fact that steem-engine stays at 1 steem/1 eng is because of burn. I think if we had burns for steem steem would be higher priced.

Make people buy from the weakest hands in the market. Burn that steem. Repeat.

What do you think will happen to price?

very nice, man!!!

The sun shines for everyone.

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I can NOT forsee a future in which Steemit SMT would kill steem-engine. These fools missed a great opportunity by not getting more behind this project. My prediction, SE will outlast Steemit SMT and SteemitInc.

I think scot will always be ahead of smt in terms of features and innovations because it is easier to improve things in a sidechain than it is directly in the Steem blockchain through hard forks.

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Steem Engine's first mover advantage shouldn't be underestimated. I think both co-existing is the most likely scenario, sort of like how the NYSE and Nasdaq do.

BooM, someone is aggro

Hahaha!!! I love reading your posts. Really enjoy your attitude. Makes me smile.

Some people just hate a winner. What your team has going is definitely a winner.

:-)

Steem Engine is certainly the easiest one I have come across to create a token on. The price really isn't bad, the listing part is really cheap, staking and extra features cost more but if you had a blockchain developer fork the Dash code or something and set up staking and modify the wallet for you, you would pay several thousand.

We started by creating the BuildTeam token on Bitshares, it was around the same price 600 BTS or so, but I can't remember if you need to be a lifetime member which costs 3000 BTS.

The advantages of Bitshares is that their tokens can now be indexed on Coingecko, Steem Engine tokens can't be indexed anywhere atm so while they are fine for community tokens and as an SMT stopgap they aren't idea for larger or more serious projects due to lack of indexing.

Our BUILDTEAM tokens are dual listed on both Steem Engine and Bitshares but the Coingecko indexer only reflects the Bitshares market which is and issue as the Steem Engine price and volume isn't factored in.

I would highly recommend Steem Engine completes this form using the Exchange Listing option http://bit.ly/CGRequestForm so that it can benefit all of Steem Engine tokens with discovery and indexing.

Edit: Also by being indexed on Coingecko, it allowed icoholder.com to add our project and include token price data and charts etc, see this announce post.

i believe SMTs will be a lot more successful than Steem-Engine in terms of adoption, but that Steem-Engine will continue to grow anyways as long as you don't give up and manage to better decentralize it. There's a market for both.

I had basically given up on Steemit before you came along with Steem-engine.

Now I'm enjoying the use of actifit, palnet, steemleo, sportstalk and ofcourse Steem-engine itself.

I'm loving it!

Yes! It’s fun to post again.

Hi, @aggroed!

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  ·  4 months ago Reveal Comment

Glad we are already on board the rain just waiting to get you our destination. We have been hopelessly waiting for SMT over 1 year and SE came to the rescue, alot of people I onboarded to steem where feed up and left, but since SE Came alive they have started coming back to the moon to steem and ENG

Weedcash is amazing!

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Hi @aggroed, always good to read updates from you :)

Personally I hope that you and your team will build a lot of useful tools for SMTs. Steemit will provide a working blockchain solution but let's be honest here - the biggest update for steemit.com since it's launch was change of colour from blue to green. Someone needs to build those easy to use SMT products for all the normies.

With those up an running you could probably create many bridges between SMT and SE for that sweet synergy effect.

Also I don't blame people for seeing SMTs as a threat to SE. It takes some time and work to build up a confidence in your skills and understand that basically everything is an opportunity :)

Good job also @cardboard with what you are doing on Steem-Engine with your TPU token.
I believe TPU is a very good investment, the will benefit from price rise and at the same time it add's to TIPU SP delegation!

Yeah I highly doubt SMT's would just be 3 steem. That would be a horrible burn rate for them. I think they should be around 500-5000 steem personally, maybe even more. Someone should be serious enough if they are making them anyway.

Steem-engine will always have a place and the speed of new features constantly being added with a day 1 exchange listing via steem-engine market is incredible.

Co-exist is the way forward, more DEC like token that can exchanged to more chains other than STEEM will be the best thing ever.

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Well Done @aggroed !! Go Steem-Engine Go Scot !! Upped and resteemed.👍😎❤
🙋 I am 100% Staking all ScotBot Tribe Tokens for 4 years when I retire early at 60! Lol, Even if only one of them does Great, I will be very happy and able to retire fully , early!! Woot Woot! 👍💯🎉

thanks for all of the work you've been putting in!

  ·  4 months ago (edited)

hilarious article

Thank you for keeping us informed. With a busy life having a hard time keeping up with what’s going on

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I have no idea what rerun your maffs people means but I love it!!

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People always like spread FUD in this blockchain. I believe both will coexist.

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Congratulations @aggroed!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 8 with 49 comments

@aggroed, You've aligned everything effectively and definitely Steemengine is different than SMT's and i believe that Steemengine will run productively and effectively ahead too. My good wishes are with you. Stay blessed.

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I love reading your posts, lol. The work you guys are doing on Steem Engine and the community are really some of the main reasons I am staying. I am loving the platform and glad to see it growing! Keep kicking ass @aggroed

I’m growing pretty used to kicking ass.. I will make sure to have my steel-toes for these upcoming ass kicking sessions.

🎁 Hi @aggroed! You have received 0.1 STEEM tip from @davedickeyyall!

@davedickeyyall wrote lately about: My Actifit Report Card: July 29 2019 Feel free to follow @davedickeyyall if you like it :)

Sending tips with @tipU - how to guide :)

i want steem-engine and smt both ♥

Thanks. All who worry about this should know that a bird at hand is worth more than fifty on the tree.

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Great post and love the candor. You are precisely correct and man....I love capitalism :D

Hell ya. Don't worry @aggroed - there are plenty of us that see the genius in what you have built and appreciate the low fees... a lot don't understand - I'm super pumped for the next quarter and for the future on/of the Steem-engine platform!

I like the very easily readable style of posts you usually write. Made that whole set of probably very technical questions and answers pretty easy to consume

I can't get it in my head what this obsession with things dying is that some people have. Scarcity mentality? Network effect is what makes or breaks open source projects in particular. It would be absolutely stupid for you guys to think you're in some kind of competition against Steemit, Inc. None of us are.

  ·  4 months ago Reveal Comment

Smart contracts are designed and implemented within blockchains, and therefore they inherit some of the blockchain's properties: They're immutable, which means a smart contract can never be changed and no one can tamper with or break a contract.

@agroed Why are you pretending?

Steem-engine is not a side-chain, they even do not use smart contracts.

What awareness you express about fraudulent misrepresentation, negligent misrepresentation or innocent misrepresentation in regards to the accuracy of any representations of fact that may lead to the latter party to enter a "smart" contract with you?

Your "smart" contracts are stored in a database not on the blockchain and your "smart" contracts can change on the fly, when you see fit without consent of the latter party that entered a "smart"contract with you.

I am very disappointed.

https://steem-engine.rocks/contracts/c5da4e4e71790e0498f0a905e92792fae8604483/726eb5ee4003ab5172b2e4633203c282537e2ef1

I think you're poorly informed.

There is no backend to steem-engine for any transaction that's independent from the steem smart contract node. None... Literally everything that happens is on the block. That includes the smart contracts that were written.

Smart contracts are not stored in a database by use for the node other than on the steem blockchain. steem-engine.rocks may have them, but that doens't make them stored theer as far as the site is concerned. We don't own it.

Yes, contracts can be edited, but you could also lock which edit is tolerable to you so that your contract could never update. Not sure that's wise, but it could conceivably be your prerogative. We give notice of changes to contracts we have set. People can make financial decisions based on that.

If you and others don't think we decentralized enough you can either be patient as we expand out of our infancy, or you can create your own more perfect thing and have fun there.

Anyway, I think you're wrong, I don't think I'm misleading anyone. If people agree with you the answer is to not use steem-engine. It's voluntary. If people agree with me they should use it. No one is forcing anything here.

Wouldn't tendermint with lotionjs do the job? Honestly, I believe Tendermint is a step up from Steem's current consensus system and I'd like to see it switch over.

Also, is it going to ever be possible on Steem Engine for SE tokens to have inflationary rewards that do not require a bot with active key access? This centralized feature is the main reason why I wait for SMTs over coughing up the 3000 ENG.

Individual smart contracts cannot be altered, but they can be replaced by newer versions (append only). The old versions remain in the blockchain. So the immutability aspect is that if a smart contract is changed, you can always look at the old version to see the differences, as you mentioned.

All blockchains are databases, but not all databases are blockchains. The most important requirement for a blockchain is that a) each block has a hash b) each hash is a component used to determine the next hash, and c) the previous hash is referenced by the current block.

That makes it a blockchain. Does this alone make it decentralized? No. Is there real consensus? Not yet. But the Steem Engine sidechain qualifies as a blockchain, by this narrow definition.

so i can call steem engine a dex? Ive been calling it a semi dex or quasi dex

I always referred to it as an aspiring dex, you know, chugging away at the goal but still waiting on tables on the side...

  ·  4 months ago Reveal Comment

What's nitrous?


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As far as i know nitrous means tribe isn't it ?

No, Nitrous is a customized version of Condenser. And condenser is the frontend to the Steem blockchain that developers can customize to create their own unique frontend of Steem. So, Nitrous was made to provide you the same feel of Steemit.com but with your custom token from Steem Engine showing in the upvote button area.

I don't know...