Triggering the Troops
I know many people have invested their lives in the belief that the military is virtuous. Often literally. It thus seems to them like a personal insult when someone questions the merits of their alleged service. The soldier's identity is so tied to the military that many reject even the slightest possibility that they might be in the wrong. I wrote a post a few days ago observing that many veterans who are proud of their service fighting for freedom are also the first in line to celebrate arbitrary authoritarian prohibitions and regulations. I conjectured this is due at least in part to military training and culture. This is no hasty pronouncement. I grew up in a conservative household, and was strongly pro-military and pro-police in my youth. I joined the Young Marines instead of the Boy Scouts, and was proud of that tangential connection to the service. In short, I did not reach my present position on this subject lightly.
Some of you will disagree with my views here in a civil manner. Some will agree wholeheartedly. And some of you are just as psychologically weak as the most easily triggered, snowflakiest SJW, and will denounce this as treason and cowardice. The usual response to criticism from this last group is name-calling, insults, and empty slogans about "protecting and serving," "love it or leave it," and "but men fought and died for your freedom!"
Yes, some soldiers fight and die. People fight and die for a lot of things, and under a lot of flags. That doesn't make it noble. The threats to my freedom aren't in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Bosnia, the Korean DMZ, Yemen, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Panama, Somalia, Uganda, and who knows where all else the military has been deployed on peacekeeping missions in my lifetime. The threat is in the halls of the capitol, from the people who pay the military and order their deployment. The people who sent troops who killed student protesters at Kent State, disarmed civilians after Hurricane Katrina and are now threatening to forcibly disarm Virginian gun owners.
The denouncement of dissent from military members and their supporters only reinforces my impression that the military operates like a cult. A cult with guns that can, has, and will use jack-booted authoritarianism while they proclaim to defend freedom. Their god is the State, their icon its flag, and their salvation its growth. Their enemy is liberty.
Think that's hyperbole?
Military recruiters tend to pad the truth or outright lie about what the contract entails. Boot camp isolates the recruit, imposes a harsh schedule, and explicitly seeks to break down the individual psychologically through verbal abuse and arbitrary disciplinary actions. He wakes up on command, stands in formation, sings a hymn, and recites a prayer to his sacred emblem. He marches to chow, and then eats a communal meal on someone else's arbitrary, short schedule, or starve. Then drill. Individual failure means group punishment. Horizontal enforcement is encouraged. Obedience is rewarded sometimes, and failure, dissent, or disobedience is punished harshly, sometimes when it hasn't been committed in the first place.
The recruit is trained to worship the rank structure. More bars and rockers? Obey. Shiny metal bits? Obey harder. Shut up and do as you're told without question. Or else. He learns a jargon that is gibberish to the uninitiated. Of course, most specialized fields have jargon, technical terms, and slang, but the military adds to this a symbolism and mythology. Like a secret society, you're jumping through hoops in order to be granted the honor of joining at the lowest official rank instead of being a mere prospect or aspirant. This is classic cult conditioning. "But it's to prepare troops for the battlefield chaos," you say? Bullshit. It's to ensure the conscience can't kick in under any circumstances whatsoever when they receive their orders. They're trained to live their lives on someone else's schedule, follow someone else's rules, obey someone else's orders, and just shut up and do as told.
Do you believe we mundane civilians take our liberty for granted, and you deserve respect because you wore a uniform? Anyone not in the military is presumed inferior, undisciplined and weak, right? How does your obedience to superiors and capacity for violence on command demonstrate virtue? Sure, the military has codes of conduct, military law, and rules of engagement. But orders come from the brass, and the brass gets their orders from the politicians, and the politicians are undeniably corrupt bastards who lie, steal, and cheat their way into power. There hasn't even been a nod toward a congressional declaration of war since World War II, and yet we have been subjected to the Korean war, the Vietnam War, Gulf Wars I & II, and innumerable other military interventions around the world. What happened to the oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic? No, soldiers obey the domestic enemies and make excuses when they break the rules that are supposed to restrain them. Because that is who pays them.
Oh, right, some of you think I am the domestic enemy because I question the legitimacy of your system. Those who challenged my prior post have demonstrated that cult trait to a T. That alone should prove my point that the military is no friend of liberty.
Many soldiers genuinely volunteer to join the army (aren't conscripted), especially in western democracies. For the most part the powerful volunteer armies of democracies deter authoritarian regimes from committing endless atrocities. The alternative is tyranny. The right for government to conscript is still recognized in many of the most democratic countries and general conscription still happens in quite a few.
We need volunteer armies and accordingly soldiers who honor the nation deserve respect. In the meantime we can dream pf a future without war or the constant threat of war.
There's a lot to unpack from your comment, and this is made difficult by the way it sidesteps most of what I actually wrote.
Yes, the military is at present a volunteer force. That in no way negates my criticism of the recruitment and training process. The threat of selective service conscription still looms, and is still no different from slavery. What is the source of the alleged right to conscript?
You say western armies deter totalitarian regimes. I would in turn point out that the US is growing totalitarian. Anything that is not prohibited must be licensed, registered, tracked, and recorded. The economy is a stifled morass of taxes, subsidies, bailouts, trade restrictions, and regulations. What is the source of the alleged authority to impose these mandates?
We need a voluntary means of security. That was the point of the 2nd Amendment. However, the military is not funded voluntarily. The government claims to represent us without any real evidence of consent, just the veneer of democracy. And the perpetual wars fought by the political class do not secure my liberty.
I mean this question in all sincerity. Do ALL soldiers deserve respect for serving their respective governments? Patriotism isn't a uniquely American feeling. When foreign solders obey foreign governments, does this confer some sort of virtue? When foreign soldiers and civilians defend their homelands from US invasion, are they noble defenders of liberty?
Yes, all those who serve their Nations have my respect, even our enemies, past and present. One man's Patriot is another's terrorist.
Remember the American Revolution? Yeah, our founding fathers and the minute-men were terrorists as far as King George and his government were concerned.
Yes, they were traitors and rebels according to the political system imposed upon them at birth. The soldiers who fought to maintain that status quo felt they were acting honorably. But reality exists outside their perceptions. One side fought to maintain an authoritarian regime, and the other fought for independence. Which side would you choose? Do patriotism and loyalty trump liberty? If so, that is no honorable position.
I think they were fighting to have their own boss instead of the current one being forced upon them.
The whiskey rebellion clearly demonstrated that freedom was not the end goal of gw, and only a few pushed back on that one.
Divided, we fell.
All hail, the united snakes!
True. As with most revolutions, the result wasn't really liberty, just a new ruler.
My main point was that modern militaries are diverse and people join for a lot of different reasons. Your posts read like every solider in every conflict is just a mindless killing machine who thinks they are spreading liberty.
Conscription is different than slavery in the sense that the government doesn't own you. It is more akin to taxation by labour. I suppose governments that rely on it could improve conditions and pay for soldiers. It was taxation without representation that was considered exploitation by the American colonists. States, where taxes aren't spent on public welfare and the public good, are generally shitholes (low education, low life expectancy, high crime rate, poor infrastructure, etc).
The US is not a totalitarian state. They aren't 100% free and may even be creeping closer to totalitarianism. However, clearly you haven't researched actual totalitarian countries like North Korea, or even somewhat totalitarian countries like China and Russia. America doesn't come close.
The government does fund the military by taxation, but I don't subscribe to the belief that taxes are oppression. Most people don't actually. In fact, if you earn below 10,000 $ a year, the government doesn't really tax you anyway. It's when you start earning a lot that this becomes a problem. Generally, the more you earn the more you are either relying on social stability or exploitation.
All soldiers do not deserve respect simply for having served. However, most of them do. When America invades a country, usually the objective is to topple some corrupt government. This doesn't make the soldiers working for that government bad as long as they are not committing war crimes. There have been countless examples (movies made, interviews, etc) where respect for the enemy is discussed.
Taxation is the government claiming a superior right to whatever portion of your earnings they demand. It is extortion. But conscription? Aside from chattel slavery, what is a more direct claim of ownership over another's life? "You will fight, kill, and die for us, or else, because we said so." How is that right? Governments xlaim to represent the people, but if they can't find volunteer soldiers, much less volunteer funding, how can they claim to fight in the public interest?
You seem to be the triggered one since you can't stop posting your hatred for everything military. Did someone touch you in the naughty spot while you were in the Young Marines? Or do you just hate yourself for being a librarian?
Can you comment without resorting to pathetic fallacies?
I have been critical of government since I started here. You're just mad because you think government enforcers should be exempt from criticism.
I also disagree with our leaders in many ways, yet I do not look to overthrow our form of government no matter how imperfect it may be.
Not only a military Veteran, but I am also an activist. I take exception to you attacking the men and women who have served honorably in our Nations. I am not a Nationalist, but consider myself a Patriot. I defend the Constitution and the rule of law.
Your attacking honorable people who have served their Nations makes me want to puke.
So, you will follow illegal orders?
Nice.
Bold of you to state your criminality so openly.
If I am a criminal for defending the rule of law and my Nation's Constitution, then so be it. Plus, you are twisting what I said.
I never said that I would follow illegal orders. I said I will never look to overthrow our Constitutional form of government.
You don't read well do you? I do. I believe you stated that you are a Veteran. Thank you for your service.
My anger with this whole post is the attacking of Veterans and Military Members, not this person's dissatisfaction with current and past policies of Administrations and Legislature within our Country.
That is how we keep democracy. Not by mob rule, not by anarchy, not by apathy. Free speech I am all for, just remember that there will be reactions to what one says.
Ask my fellow Vets. I know that better then anyone. If you don't like what I have to say and call me a criminal because of it, that is fine. I will respond by calling you an ass-hat because I like that word.
What rule of law?
The one that let hitlary destroy evidence but jailed a selfie taker?
Following orders from criminals is no virtue.
I'm glad i got out when i did.
Number one I care nothing of Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, or a great many folks that have held positions of power. I currently do not wear the uniform, though technically I am still technically affiliated with the military as I am a member of the Individual Ready Reserve.
If you feel that attacking people for their serving is okay, well have at it. You have my respect for serving in the military, but you are no friend of mine.
Well, excuse me for pointing out your oath to the criminals.
I doubt we could be friends as long as blind obedience guides your choices.
I tend to chafe at having bits put in my mouth.
Slavery was "rule of law" once. So were Jim Crow and prohibition. Appeal to legality is not an argument. Liberty is my preferred standard. If you prefer legality over liberty, you only support my contention that the military sees itself as a superuor caste and stands as an enemy to liberty.
If you defend the Constitution, what is your response when the government routinely violates the very rules designed to restrain it? "Rule of law" protected slavery, Jim Crow, prohibition, and innumerable other injustices. What is your standard to weigh legality?
If you are indeed honorable, you will recognize that I have struggled with these questions before arriving at my current conclusions instead of dismissing me as a cranky troll.
Hey I've got a great idea, let's single out a portion of the population and stereotype them! Definitely not for their race, gender, or religious beliefs because that would be hate speech. Let's single them out for prior federal service it's totally different.
Suggesting that someone's chosen actions are destructive violations of liberty is not "stereotyping."
To judge a person by their actions is the exact opposite of stereotyping. Otherwise it would be "stereotyping" to say rapists are bad guys for committing rape.
If you are only able to call me a troll, you prove my point.
As per the definition:
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
So, yeah, you are a troll.
However, you do seem to enjoy the freedom and liberty you have, without any respect for those who ensured it for you.
So you are not only a troll, but a very self centered, disrespectful and extremely crude troll at that too.
Your crudity is expressed via your intolerance and outright ignorance and add to that your attempts to twist the facts around so as to suit your ego.
You don't even have an agenda, you are literally wasting our time, time that will never be replaced and as such is not worth wasting on selfish little people who don't even have the decency to show any appreciation or respect for what they have in life.
Out.
Internet troll
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.
Both the noun and the verb forms of "troll" are associated with Internet discourse. However, the word has also been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment.
Calling someone a coward because they question your beliefs is such a superb rebuttal. And there is so much courage in blind obedience.
General Mattis, General Kelly, General McMaster? Tell me again about blind obedience.
Flagged for hate speech.
How specifically is this hate speech? Don't be a snowflake.
Really? I mean really! Did you know that President Richard Nixon (also a Quaker) served in the US Navy (Commander) for 24 years? He served in the South Pacific during WWII.
President Jimmy Carter also served for 18 years in the Navy also serving during WWII.
No, Bad Quaker. It is YOU that are the snowflake.
I counter your name-dropping nonsense with Smedley Butler.
As a: retired member of the military, a lifetime member of the American Legion and Non-commissioned Officers Association and also a member of Veterans for Peace; I must say your diatribe is very nasty and distasteful.
I have witnessed war first hand. I have seen it up close and hate it more than anyone can imagine. Yet; sad to say it is a necessity. Your attack on those of us that have served in the military hurts us a great deal. Many of us deal with our own guilt and the ghosts that haunt us.
Often when people thank me for my service, I feel very peculiar. I do not feel that I am worthy of that thanks.
I speak for myself and some of those I have known and currently know that are Veterans.
Thank you for your attack on our honor. I believe in free speech, and will defend your right to say what you like. That does not make you any less an ass-hat. That is my freedom of speech. Thank you for hurting my sisters and brothers that have served honorably and have sacrificed physically and mentally.
I do not ask for your respect. I do not ask for you to salute me or even like me. As I said, I hate war more than many could ever imagine, yet; if called upon, I would once again serve. I am being as civil as I can. So continue to attack those that serve, that is your right. Expect those that you insult to respond.
You are a recipient of my infrequent down-vote, because evidently you are just a dick.
You say war is a necessity. However, under what definition of just war has the US deployed troops since WWII? It has all been old men sending young men to fight and die for their political ambitions, not defense of hearth and home.
You believe I attack your honor. I do not. I question your actions and their effects, regardless of your motivations. I question the model of the military. I question the politics behind military adventurism. Especially in a world where the military is not conscripted, it is the duty of the soldier to examine the premises and principles behind his choices and actions. But the military teaches obedience, not critical thought. This is a pitfall if the goal is defending freedom.
Oh, and by the way?
You want attention? You got it.
Yes, keep telling yourself dissent = hate. But please read USMC Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler's take on the subject, too.
Nice punting of the hornet's nest.
I wouldn't expect true beliebers to do anything but continue to be duped.
The subtleties you ask of them, they are not capable of.
Twice i've mentioned being a vet to those folks, yet they still ignore me.
Their worldview is us and them, based on their prejudices, by design.
They are not capable of knowing what they don't know, nor that they don't know it.
They just want to ride for free on what anybody should do.
Heroes are ordinary people put in extraordinary situations that persevere.
Seeking the title precludes being one, imo.
So why did you join hero?
I joined because I graduated high school and was in a dead-end job in 1979. I transferred to the Marine Corps shortly later because of the Iran thing in those days. Besides not one Veteran responding to this post which defames Veterans has used the term hero except you!
I would find it very difficult to find a Vet that would be comfortable being called a hero. Oh yes, there are some. One in every crowd. Normally sit in the canteen at the Legion and talk about everything they did and find out they are just affiliate members whose highest rank was Tenderfoot in the Boy Scouts. We all know the type.
I was duped by a copsucker upbringing.
Wasn't heroes the theme of the post?
We ride for free because we served?
I'm real disappointed that the dad i got bought into the paradigm and misled me for too many years.
He went to his grave mad at me for bucking up against my oppression.
I still struggle to free myself from that indoctrination.
It's a shame on our civilization that war still exists.
Imo.
We can do better than kill each other because,... politics.
You're on the list now. I probably issued the first follow command through my bot and it didn't take, my bad on that one. Fixed.
I wonder sir, in what unit did you serve...I mean other than the
boy scouts, I mean Young Marines?Tell me, how is that relevant to my observations? If I am in error, enighten me. Address the arguments, not the individual making them.
I was wondering about it, prior to making any comment, so I could do so with perspective; It was going to be pertinent to my comment one way or another and ergo relevant to your observations. I didn't want to antagonise the situation by commenting without that knowledge. However, in hindsight, maybe it would be best that I don't comment or engage further as it seems you aren't really interested in a dialogue on this topic, or from me in general.
That's ok of course, it's your prerogative, just as your opinions are yours to have and promote.
I shouldn't have engaged with you I guess, considering the following statement which doesn't really invite a conversation anyway. I regret it, as I regret some of the other things I have done in my life based on not having the full-picture prior to acting.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
I made that statement based on my observation that many cannot handle dissenting views, as evidenced by the irrational, angry comments I have received here and elsewhere for criticising the police and military. If you're willing to engage in civil discourse, so am I.
You know, I almost downvoted your post to make it disappear. after your response to my comment. I didn't because that would have been wrong, a knee-jerk reaction and against my beliefs. I wanted to communicate with you. I've sent several of your posts to curangel as one of their curators you know, and have to say I've always found something interesting in them. I believe we've also conversed back and forth a little too.
We are human, and don't always agree, and whilst in the past I've thoughts differently, as I get older I tend to behave in a more balanced and calculated manner. Wisdom? Maybe. I don't know.The old me is still there, just waiting to go to war with someone - I've lost none of my ability to do so, I just stifle it now and am better for it. I have better relationships and conversations here and in the real world.
We are all entitled to our opinions and in my opinion should be able to show respect for others and theirs, whilst getting our own message across. As I gun owner, (so many guns) I am faced with this conundrum all the time...Just for example. Argue my point, or just agree that an anti-gun person is entitled to theirs. I simply go shooting and leave them to their own opinions. They won't change mine, and I won't theirs. No point arguing. Let's all just have a beer and live our best life huh?
I'm not going to say more on the topic you raised in this post. My opinion doesn't matter. Don't worry, I have one for sure, but would rather just have beers and burgers, sit around and tell lies. Ya know?
All the best.
Congratulations @jacobtothe!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
Well, I guess this storm was worth something.