How is this even legal?

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(Edited)

I'm looking at some of the subreddits lately, most of the big ones are filled with rules and guidelines and all sorts of things. I used to love Reddit back in the day, my account is now over 8 years old and has over 130k karma where most of it is comment karma, i.e. I didn't just spam random links I found on the internet in hopes to get upvotes for link karma but instead attempted to comment, reply and focus on interaction with fellow Redditors much like my Steem activity early on. Except that here you made some rewards for good curation and on certain comments (not so much early on, though).

The way I saw Reddit in the day was a way for people to come together, share links, discuss them and enjoy the imaginary internet points if others liked your activity. At the same time everyone knew it was garnering a lot of attention and a lot of people were using it. There were often times when someone would link to a youtube video of an underrated content creator and it would just blow up on Reddit and the Youtuber would see a spike in viewcount and his video filled with positive comments and the popular "I got here from Reddit" ones. It was nice, it felt like the right amount of people at the right place at the right time did something nice for a content creator who was just starting out but wasn't getting the attention he deserved cause of the lack of marketing, attention or curation on that platform, but Reddit did it right. Similarly someone would post an image of a comic creator and people would love it, you'd see comments asking for more, who the creator is, what his website was, etc.

Where I'm going with this is that the real creators were compensated for the entertainment they gave to a big crowd, while the person who shared it only gained some internet points it didn't matter - his job did not take a lot of time thus he wasn't expecting to make money off of it.

Over time Reddit started gaining more and more popularity, if someone would ask me where it all started my best guess would be the r/IAMA which for those who don't know was a subreddit growing in popularity that started off with certain people having unique jobs, having gone through a unique experience or being interesting in general making a post telling others their story and letting anyone ask them anything and put some time into answering the people. As it became more popular and others started realizing how much attention there was on Reddit and the effects it could have on marketing, the subreddit started seeing more and more celebrities and famous people sign up and make IAMA threads. It became so popular that they had to use a calendar as to not push too many into the same time. Some of the most famous ones I can think of right now were President Obama, Bill Gates and the famous for the wrong reasons Woody Harrelson for his movie Rampart. The latter backfired as he kept avoding many questions and kept repeating the phrase "let's get back to talking about Rampart", it made it obvious that he was just there to promote his movie, not to give time to his fans or the Reddit community and meet them halfway. As you can imagine when the internet gets all up in arms they went ahead and rekt the reviews of that movie possibly leading to very crappy sales of it.

In one way one could understand the anti-marketing feeling of most Redditors, especially those that had been there since the early beginnings and only wanted what was best for the site. Many subreddits started having rules against self-promotion or the golden "only 1 out of 10 submissions may be self-promotion" in their rediquette, although I am not sure if that is still a thing. Most people agreed with this and the current owners of Reddit seemed to have the best interest in mind for the community, little to no ads, a way to donate "gold" to certain posts which would go directly to paying for servers so it can keep running and everything was nice and cozy.

Things started to change, though. The new CEO of Reddit made it pretty clear that now that they had reached a big userbase and a very high traffic rank, it was time to cash in on it. The site quickly became riddled with ads "oh well I'll just use adblock" - the site became riddled with "promotional posts" as well. As they were moving to maximizing their adrevenue, get in more and more stakeholders to buy Reddit they were constantly looking for ways to increase it.

How could that be done? Well one way is to make sure people using Reddit would not leave the site. Imgur which had been an image hosting service that Reddit relied heavily on in the beginning was not needed anymore as Reddit started it's own Image hosting. Then also Gif and Video hosting. Now there was no reason to for any consumers on Reddit to leave it as everything they wanted to consume existed there, a subreddit for everything, most people they knew had accounts there now which they were able to follow, etc.

Here is where things get a bit sad though, these new changes to get people to stay on Reddit for as much as possible and the rules in turn added to some of the most popular subreddits like the one I mentioned in the beginning r/art made it so it was also hard to give recognition or credit or any sort of revenue to the real creator of anything. Think about it, it is becoming impossible to credit the real creator for the attention/entertainment millions are getting.

There's been so many cases where somebody shares someone's work, people ask in the comments who made it, where it is from, etc and the sharer may not even know or care enough to find out and answer, they may just be farming karma to sell their account later, this issue for another post though, people like to complain about bots and stuff we have here on a open and public blockchain clearly have no idea of the black market deals and shit that goes on on a private and centralized database where only some people can check what exactly happened and if activity was fake or not, if they even suspect something to begin with that makes them look.

I've seen cases where the original creator had to make a new account and start answering people that it's his work, of course at the same time being limited by the "nospam" limits that new accounts face where they can only comment once every 9-10 minutes and if they get downvoted it may increase until they hit a certain karma amount and can comment more - for those of you crying about RC limitations.

It's just baffling to me that someone can share your post, make a bunch of useless internet points he maybe can sell his account for on the black market later on, people reward this person with "gold" that directly goes back to Reddit, it attracts so much attention and possibly new people through Google SEO which all goes back to Reddit through adrevenue and the real artist may not get a cent off of that or any new followers because they don't want people to leave the site so they autodelete or downvote links to sources. Like what the fuck?

I remember the era when Facebook started paying content creators and the majority used to just steal Youtube videos and post them as their own, getting millions of likes, shares and adrevenue and the real Youtube creator found out about it later and could not do anything about it. Not only did it degrade his great video cause by this point a lot of people had already seen it and were not going to re-watch it even though they happen to find out who the real creator is and where the credit should go to - they may as well have missed out on their chance of going viral or gaining a lot of popularity cause someone from another platform just stole your content and made a lot of money off of it. Do you think Facebook cared? They got a cut off of the revenue anyway, sure they may have given the thief a slap on the wrist but it's not like they were going to flat out ban them, even if they did they would just create a new account and restart the whole process.

It can't be completely compared to Reddit but it's kind of this sensation that happens when people are incentivized with money and the platform they are on that recently starts these monetizations is much bigger or easier to game than the platform they were originally posted on. Now think about each individual artist with their 100-10,000 followers and how much daily revenue, attention and credit they may be losing out on in each genre, not just video, gifs, tiktoks, vines or what have you, but in everything because there is a subreddit for everything.

Compare Steem to Reddit where we go out of our way to check that an account is posting original content before curating it with a guild or our own stake and then open a few more doors to check that it's not just an ID thief pretending to be a content creator by contacting the real artist and asking if they are this user. It's a damn shame we don't get more credit for that while other websites make a ton of money off of stolen content.

Anyway, this got pretty long and borderline ranty, doubt many read this far and I've also been on a rolling spree posting lately so I forgive you if you didn't. :P




42 comments
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Watch me change the game, acid. Just watch me.

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You and all of us have the power to do so now thanks to this newfound technology, the moment we start changing the rules of the blockchain because of advertisers though is the moment this project goes down the same fate as all the currenct centralized giants. Luckily for us we can unvote witnesses wanting that to happen. :D

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Our witnesses dont care about us already.

We need new ones.

Posted using Partiko Android

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You keep complaining about HF21 still, it's getting pretty old and it seems nothing but shortsighted.

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(Edited)

Lol yea

Fucking distribution up even more is totally short sighted.
But what did I expect? Ure an Investor.

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How is distribution working out right now?

also fuck off with calling me an investor and therefor for the changes, you should know what I do to help distribution on this platform and how I've focused on it in the past 3 years even when I had less SP than you do through curation trails.

Go repeat that broken taperecorder somewhere else

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(Edited)

No I dont know, cuz I didnt make it in the club.

If people buy steem cheap now, we have better distribution than ever.

Keep calm, dude. :)

And if u think I got my SP through curation trails, ure wrong.
Im also not afraid of loosing any. Bernie is very often flagwalling me.
Still I need to farm steem for the good opportunity. I also need ressources to change anything.

Also cuz hf21 I'll undelegate everything-

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And if u think I got my SP through curation trails, ure wrong.

I meant I was curating/commenting and helping distribution with curation trails with low SP, meaning that even though I wasn't making anything for the first year or so I was still focusing on distribution.

Yeah low price is good for distribution but who's buying? Low price is also good for whales to buy back a ton while we sit here and bring fear and fud to our own users, I'm sure they will appreciate that once/if Steem rises again.

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Im just telling the obvious: our witnesses dont care about us; we need new ones that do

Posted using Partiko Android

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(Edited)

I don't like generalizing all witnesses as all thinking the same, although I agree some may not and it's not hard* to spot which ones. I'm guessing the basis of this comes from most having to cut their rewards for it to go toward the SPS and thus the hate that witnesses didn't cut their rewards, for what its worth I voted to take some from the witness rewards too but people seem to forget that witnesses also had their rewards cut already in a previous hardfork by 20-25%.

Not to mention it becomes a security risk if prices drop too low and witnesses can't maintain their shit.

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(Edited)

Not to mention it becomes a security risk if prices drop too low and witnesses can't maintain their shit.

It's a BS argument which only showed their true color. That said, not surprising if voiced by one of the leading vote buying operators.

At least 70, those outside of the top 20, disagree with that statement. You witness because you're long in the game. If for any other reason, hasta la pasta and don't let the door hit you in the back on the way out... oh, and don't worry about the light, we've got apps for that.

If they had contributed 2% they would still have 13% and sacrificed only 20% of that what those who give them a reason to witness, creators, gave up. The perception would have been totally different.

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Not sure but I believe that comment came from @smooth, and it's not just about not being able to pay for servers, it's also a different security risk - think competitors, bribes and all that other nice stuff. Not saying that's what smooth was pointing at but I'm sure it's something that can happen/has been attempted, even though I doubt enough witnesses would go for it for that to be a possibility.

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I saw it publicly first voiced by TRW.

I do understand the reasoning and would have been totally fine with 8/2 as it would have shown that witnesses, several of them also involved in development and thus potential benefactors of the DAO, were open to also contribute a (small) share.

After all, while the Steem blockchain could be used just for its fast tx and easy wallet which doesn't require any additional app download, the core of the chain is creation rewards. Ergo, without creators... don't need all those witnesses either because very little raison d'être.

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As I said above I was a proponent for sacrificing witness rewards for the SPS, also I have been of the opinion to thicken the tail for the rewards between the top 20 onto 21-50/100.

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I'm still not sure this is something to focus on and keep shifting blame when there are blockhains out there who only reward their witnesses/miners/validators.

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(Edited)

I'm not putting blame, I'm still here and still contributing daily. But the perception thing is a valid sentiment members may have.

I don't see the future in $TEEM but in shit tokens. Through all my intarwebz travail I am yet to see a dapp which tells me I should get a TRX wallet despite Justin less than a day ago claiming 3m accounts on TRON. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If a Dapp like BUZZi and the realityhubs tribe could have a lovechild. User generated product reviews... imagine how the Big G which still dominates how traffic flows, would eat all those [product name + REVIEW] titles and thus send traffic. Traffic is transactionable. Very transactionable. Queue lite accounts.

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PS. I don't see witnesses complaining why they can't witness shittokens. :P

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To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

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It is my first experience of seriousness in a platform like this, in facebook only work a little and not efficiently.

In recent days I have learned a little what it means to be here at steem, and I plan to continue working well and grow according to my possibilities.

pd: if it was something long, by the way at the beginning there is a paragraph repeated a couple of times :D

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I love the fact that I can get on Reddit and find a community about anything that I like, with answers to any questions I might have on any given topic. That will never change, I guess.

The rest of the problems you mention are, as you noticed, not really Reddit-specific. This is the direction Internet has been going for the past 10 years, and the result is a hot mess of advertisement and people who can't share their own work anymore. It's hard to revert these trends -you should get into the minds of the people who use the Internet everyday. For every scammed artist there's someone who is willing and capable of stealing their work for a bunch of likes - or money, of course - meaning they will give those likes more value that they give their own dignity. You can't really convince people to value their own dignity, it should come naturally.

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Can't wait to see what communities on Steem will do for content creators wanting to take back the power into their own hands.

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That is a good trip through social media history which brings us to today and steem. It is like playing an awesome game that would be even better if way more people played.

You have to wonder if being early adopters into something ahead of its time is what we are in. How long do you stay ahead of your time before you concede it was never meant to be?

Good thing is this is a marathon and those of us into long distance running will do well in the race if it becomes what it should be.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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You have to wonder if being early adopters into something ahead of its time is what we are in. How long do you stay ahead of your time before you concede it was never meant to be?

That's a good one, many others took off sooner or later in my experience, Bitcoin / Ethereum / Dash, but considering the problems Steemit has faced and the way Steem operates and how it is distributed all over the world meaning many will sell at any price and undervalue their time/effort/etc just cause they can't help it either way due to their situation. I'd say this platform and currency is very unique and will run its own course, one thing to keep in mind and due to the importance of keys is that once we start seeing some action in the price again after things start heading toward the right direction is that many will start coming back fast because many will have saved their keys somewhere. Hopefully next wave we will also have better solutions to account creations such as light accounts/guest accounts and once the fomo starts not just buying into Steem but getting active here, wanting to start projects combined with communities, smt's and a worker proposal and the advanced tech Steem has compared to others where it won't as easily suffer congestions like the others did during ATH's and peak hours - I think we have a good chance next time to make some real noise and give the centralized competitors some real fear. :)

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Yah we are working towards the best and the worst is simply a low token value. I can live with that and really value the upside investment-wise.

Bitcoin doubling in value from today is a new all time high. Steem doubling in value simply puts it back to where it was 30 days ago. Which seems like the better short term investment to you?

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I use to play around on reddit but it ended up to be no better then facebook or Instagram to me. I don't need to go over my experiance in detail because you've covered it all in your rant 😁 I stick to Steem now and sometimes Twitter.

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Though it get pretty long but you really say lot truthful things here. Is true, steemit should and is high time to be given credit of. I guess perharps people are still yet to discover this platform

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The question is already getting raised how Facebook an make money off link sharing without passing on to the actual creators.

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Fascinating analysis of the incentives and how they've shifted over time.

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How did you read this while listening to mspwaves, fkn multitasker! teach me

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I get a lot of practice listening to the news on the car radio, while simultaneously hearing about Henry's latest obsession, Japanese sports cars from the 80's, Fletcher's justification for bringing his ooshie sqooshie toy to school and Evelyn's request for chicken nuggets because she saw the golden arches up ahead.
Now, it's 4am, and I'm only doing 2 things at once. Decadent :)

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Damn, maybe I should become a dad to up my multitasking game, or you now, lose it completely. :D

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(Edited)

Lovely summary of also partly my personal internet history. I've already spent too much time on projects that I believed in and then been disappointed when the project went down the drain due to mostly pure greed.

Still being quite new on Steem, I don't get all of the dynamics mentioned, especially in the conversation with @luegenbaron

But seeing topics about flagwars, whales self-voting, bid-bots it seems like this platform has its fair share of controverse. Do you think you could maybe publish a post for newbies like me that would explain some of these issues?

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Congratulations @acidyo! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You published a post every day of the week

You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
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Actually what you find baffling is very old practice already. Long before you joined Reddit top redditors already charged (anywhere between $120 and $300) to submit a post. A good reddit post could after all send more than 30,000 hits within the first two hours. After that it merely depended on how good the linked work was as not every submission stayed on the frontpage for a long time.

But this wasn’t solely a thing on Reddit. Before Reddit, there was Digg. A good post on Digg’s frontpage could send the same 30,000 and then some. Digg frontpage posts have known to hit 180k views in a day. And some top diggers would take the odd “request”... at a fee obviously.

But that was not solely an issue to the Web2.0.

Sites like kottke, the drudgereport, daringfireball, and so many more are mostly curation sites. Curation with an added paragraph of commentary and every blue moon an own essay. Even now those sites have hundreds of thousands of followers and while especially those mentioned are ethical and don’t take payment to be curated they make thousands a month. From curating great content in their niche.

Boingboing.net anyone?

Now thousands of early day “bloggers”, people publishing and curating online long before blogging was popular a term, have eventually sold their site because a blog network thought it fitted their profile and their audience would bring a decent traffic boost and thus increase in ads rate card (yes, there was a time that views mattered for ads pricing). Or they sold to some SEO link farm company who loved the page rank of that site.

The internet has never been able to survive without others sharing discovered content. Curation is an integral pillar to the internet. The internet has also always made money from curation, whether that was from ads, direct payment for curation, or selling their site or account... it ALWAYS was a thing online. And tbh, for those who put in the effort and went the distance, it was much more rewarding — pun intended — than Steem is. Right now Steem is mostly a pay to self reward platform.

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STEEM = new reddit. Tribes =New subreddits. We won't have any problem with ads because if we put ads on steem dapps, the revenue will prob go to buying and burning tokens, as soon as people understand that any ad they watch goes directly to increasing their rewards, their STEEM and tribe token's value, they will disable adblocker and start watching ads.

I did it... after I knew that steemit.inc was putting ads up I decided to stop using adblocker on steemit, ofc, this is because I expect them to, sooner or later, to stop their dumping and actually buy STEEM and burn it with their surplus ad revenue. If they don't do it I'll just start using adblocker again...

Humans have 4 resources that can be monetized, our health (organ selling), our time(normal job sells time for USD), our attention (a portion of ad revenue should come to us) and our data (a portion of data selling should come to us). If a website isn't paying me to watch ads or for my data, screw them... if they want to be greedy and not live in a sharing economy, screw them...

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I didn't know there was a black market for reddit accounts with high karma. That's pretty bad.

My only question is why would someone want an account with high karma?

Posted using Partiko Android

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For marketing and giving weight to their opinions cause people judge accounts based on age and activity.

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What's your opinion on dlike? At least, it leads users to the source but in the process reader have to leave Steem interface. Would you say, it is harming the ad revenue to Steemit?

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Capitalism is so hard to resist, even when an original project's intentions were pure. I've seen it happen with so many good services.

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