PoB doesn't work, never will work, and we don't need it to work.

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I don't want this to be a long ranty post, and I don't think I need that many words to make these points. I just listened to the tail end of the witness chat on MSP Waves and well...my thumbnail says it all.

PoB doesn't work

Proof of Brain, or the idea that the knowledge of the crowd will organically push the "best" content to the top, doesn't work. Here's a few reasons:

  • There is a financial incentive. This pollutes the psychological relationship a user will feel when voting. How each user reacts to this will vary from user to user on a spectrum of, "I don't care at all about the financial incentive, to, I only care about the financial incentive." Most users will be shades of grey between these two extremes. Regardless of where they sit along this spectrum, the macro picture of the crowd is a polluted mess of incentives as the financial one is just the most prominent. Most people think about things like, "How much money does this person already have?, Will this person sell or stake?, Is voting for this person good for Steem?, etc.

PoB will never work.

This is something that can't be separated from the system. It's at the core of the mechanism for Steem. Steem without this wouldn't be Steem anymore.

PoB doesn't need to work.

PoB is not the only way to sort content. As a matter of fact, we're the only ones trying to make this work.

  • Algorithmic. What literally all other content platforms use. I've got push back from this saying that then we would have Google/FB. No. The BAD thing about the way that those platforms use their algorithms, is the fact that they use that data with the end goal of finding the ad you will click on. That's the BIG goal. Them pushing relevant content to you is the carrot they dangle to keep you on the site. If you look for example at a site like https://www.artstation.com/. Since the content is very specific and niche, they don't need to appeal to a diverse group of advertisers. So the only purpose of their trending algorithm is to push forward the best content. The ads are all to appeal to the same niche audience so there's no need to use users data to try to feed them relevant ads. It will be up to each business to figure out what works best for them for monetization, but a functioning trending algorithm could be shared across the ecosystem.
    A more functional trending algorithm would take more information into consideration like:

Page Views
Number of Comments
Number of Replies
Number of Votes
Vote Value
Vote Time Windows
Known Bot Votes
Known Trail Votes
Number of Resteems
etc.

  • Manual. This of course would have a problem scaling, but we could cross that road when we get to it. Again I will point to Steempeak. The landing page is simply a rotation of curation groups. It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than the current situation.

The other main reason I feel PoB doesn't need to work, is because it's just marketing anyway. It's not actually the law in the code. It has to do with how frontends display content. The law of the code is, with x amount of Steempower you have the power to control y amount of the distribution of the reward pool. Period.

This is a better sell anyway!

There is a lot of discussion about what is the value of owning SP. There are many IMO, but this is a BIG one and one that can be sold to the masses. I'm channeling @nonameslefttouse here, but he's right.

Instead of supporting the content you want to consume by constantly spending money. Invest in your ability to be able to not only support that content without spending money, but literally get paid to support it.

Doesn't that sound a LOT BETTER than "Come to STEEM and join us in fighting spam! You might get punished for it, it's not fun, and it probably won't work, but at least you're doing your part in our exercise in futility 😃 "

Chew on it, think about it. Talk about it in the comments. Here's a painting of a sunset to calm you down in case I triggered you.

joc0zwc3jk.jpg



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19 comments
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I like the painting of the sunset. 😁

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This post has something for everybody! 😂

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To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

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You should talk to Heimi about avalon.

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Is that some non-PoB frontend? I know he mentioned that this was part of the driver to the new solutions on Dtube. I'm a fan.

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I'm beginning to feel your argument to be correct at least when it comes to content discovery. The reverse auction business as a way to encourage content discovery simply does not work.

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Yes, I'm only talking about content discovery. I believe downvotes can be an effective tool to deal with abuse, but it will only work if you have a reasonably even distribution. As soon as one bad actor becomes too big to moderate, it all falls apart.

This is why I'm super on board with the SCOT's mute function. I think it's absolutely necessary for these communities to have any chance of scaling.

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I agree. Distribution is key. There are bad actors on Steem with such huge stake that the middle class is completely helpless at straightening them out.

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Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!

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That line about supporting content and getting paid for it is key. I heard the tail end of the whole convo as well... my opinion is that businesses have a huge reason to own SP and it will only grow in the future (RC pools, rewarding user base, account creation, funding, etc...) most users will not want SP (other than the small group of the “rich” who want to invest in the chain itself)... users will earn small little bits of Steem that are worth a lot of $ and will exchange for community tokens/fiat immediately.

Users will want tribal currency, businesses will want the currency that underlies the whole ecosystem.

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I think that it very well could develop like this. I think for sure a large percentage of the community will go along these lines. The way I see it is similar. I see it like users on Steem will organically transition from "worker" to "investor". So they will come for some activity, sharing content, community, social media, games, whatever, but as they engage on the platform and build up stake, they'll learn more about the benefits of keeping their stake.

I do think the casual users will all start off selling immediately, but if we can gain real traction there will be more information out there that explains the benefits of staking.

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Dear @midlet

Interesting read. I had my own doubts about POB.

Proof of Brain, or the idea that the knowledge of the crowd will organically push the "best" content to the top, doesn't work

My impression is, that in current days content (even quality one) doesn't really have much value. Pretty much everyone can create content. So it's hard to expect that "everyone" can be paid well, for something that has very little value.

The fact is, that your content may only have some value if you're already recognized withing community. If you have some solid followerbase, some reach and exposure. Otherwise created post has literally no value. After all who cares about quality of publication if noone reads it?

If we will add the fact, that quality content can be already created by AI (I've seen some blogs created by AI and I thought that it's better than most humans could write) ... then value of content alone will drop even more.

Supporting selected authors (or people we recognize) is clearly the way we're already curating now. And this is the only way to go in my opinion.

Yours
Piotr

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Well, I sort of agree and disagree with the idea that content is worthless. I'd alter that to say almost all content is worthless to almost everyone.

Here's the things though, your content doesn't need to be valuable to millions of people. If it's valuable to 20 people, 50 people, 100 people, that might be plenty. There are billions of people in the world, and no matter what you're saying or making or producing, there's people out there that will find it valuable.

Up until now there has been no way for them to reward that content other than a worthless upvote or like, but Steem represents a totally new idea, where they can invest in this system and reward the things they find valuable with something actually tangible. What makes it really powerful is it can be anything. It could be a charity, it could be some writing, art, activity, literally anything. The whole reason PoB was a flawed concept is because what is "good" or valuable from person to person varies wildly, that's why we need some other mechanism to help people discover the content they find valuable.

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Hi @midlet

I absolutely appreciate your comment and your time.

I sort of agree and disagree with the idea that content is worthless.

I'm fully aware that we would all love content to be worth something. But just look around. How many people out there really care about curating quality content. Not many.

And how many care about reading random publications, created by people they do not know? Again: not many.

Im a social media marketer with few few years expecience, and if there is anything that I'm good at, then it's analizyng human behaviours and looking for patterns. And so far my strong impression is that absolute majority people out there (regardless on social media platform) get quickly overwhelmed with amount of content and very soon most of those users will stick to supporting those who they know, recognize and value.

If it's valuable to 20 people, 50 people, 100 people, that might be plenty

Absolutely. However (again) your content will most likely be viewed by 20,50 or 100 people not because your publication represent quality content but because you (as an author) will attract attention of those who would like to support you.

There are billions of people in the world, and no matter what you're saying or making or producing, there's people out there that will find it valuable.

I think Steemit proved already, that it's not really true. And those who do not understand it and think that creating interesting post should be enough to attract readers ... they simply quit.

If you would compare autors publishing average content (but engaging with people and ensuring that others will start to recognize them) vs those who create amazing content but noone knows them -> I bet my own leg that first group will do thousand times better.

but Steem represents a totally new idea, where they can invest in this system and reward the things they find valuable with something actually tangible

True to some degree. My impression is, that most autors absolutely would rather like to be rewarded with readers and people who engage with them. And again: creating quality content is not enough to get much of attention and support.

Again, thx for great comment. We may see some things differently, but surely we're both having similar approach to PoB.

Yours
Piotr

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No problem :)

So all the things you're saying are true, but only for Steemit, and I don't think because they're true on Steemit, that makes it absolutely true. That might sound confusing, but the main thing is, Steem only has around 10k(being generous) active users.

So if you were approaching this like a scientific study, we don't have a large enough sample size for it to give an accurate representation of what it would be like at scale(millions of users).

Currently Steem is like a small village made up of people from around the entire world with almost nothing in common except our interest in cryptocurrency and Steem. That's the reason most people just talk about Steem, and that's also the reason as you stated, simply creating "good" content is not enough currently. In these early days if you want to get more support you have to connect with people because the chance is high that your content is not valuable to them.

People are more likely to support the people they know rather than content, because there probably is very little content here that they'd like. I can attest to this because it's what I do. On PAL I have quite a bit of Pal power relative to the other users, and with the 50/50 curation, I'm constantly looking for good content to upvote, but it's not easy to find, so I typically just upvote my friends, and people that engage with me.

I don't think this is as much about psychology as it is about this platform lacking features for content discovery and the platform not having enough users to provide enough variety in content to satisfy everyone.

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Hi again @midlet

I also wanted to make some suggestion.

My impression is, that the hardest part of attracting attention on STEEMIT is the fact, that our audience have very little chance to actually find our publications. Lack of solid notification system is an obvious issue. And regardless how hard I would try - there is very little chance I would find out about your new interesting publications (my feed is just flooded with to many posts).

Please allow me to share some suggestion with you. If you would ever publish content related to blockchain, crypto, artificial intelligence, psychology etc. then perhaps you could simply send me memo with link to that post.

This way not only I would have a chance to read your publication, but I will also upvote it right away with 20k SP voting power. If I would consider it interesting then I may also share it with wider audience.

Please let me know what do you think.

Cheers, Piotr

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Thanks :) I'll try to remember to shoot you a message if I post something relevant.

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