Centralization is the Death of Freedom. Decentralize into Prosperity on Independence Day
Two thousand years ago Rome built Barbegal. The technology necessary to do so wasn't merely hydraulics and masonry. A single entity had to undertake the enterprise of manufacturing the bread necessary to Rome, and Barbegal was but one facet of the enterprise. Concentrating the wealth and materiel necessary to construction was trivial compared to the ability to need it's product. The centralization of power was well advanced in Rome, more impressively than it's ability to build aqueducts, roads, and war.
Sadly, that centralization was what produced Rome's downfall. Centralization inevitably results in collapse. Social power is incapable of being delegated as is necessary to centralized governance without engendering corruption, and ultimately corruption fells the institution unjustly taking the power of sovereign persons through slavery and involuntary servitude.
Every civilization has fallen to date. We're next, and our downfall is ongoing as I write. Does anyone really doubt this today?
The empire that has seized the entire world in it's centralized institutional grasp is in the process of destroying itself, and we have the choice of remaining dependent on it and perishing for the lack of it's sustenance, or undertaking to avail ourselves our necessities.
Decentralization is the cure for corruption, slavery, and imperial collapse.
Our infrastructure isn't constructed to provide us the means to provide our own goods and services without sustaining a parasitic class that (badly) provides management services for the institutions supplying those resources. Previously there has been a profitable transaction between plebs and overlords in which overlords concentrated the productive resources provided by plebs to field armies that seized assets from less powerful neighbors, while doling out enough sustaining resources to keep sufficient numbers of plebs alive to supply the armies.
This generally works, but malice and the absence of goodwill eventually prevents competitors from succeeding. This is unless all the competitors collude and limit their competitive affect, which seems to have reached a functional threshold globally today.
Like the Roman empire, successful establishment of this institution globally will result in collapse from within, as the malice and absence of goodwill in administrators results in existential internecine competition. Theodoric merely took advantage of that collapse, and then made every effort to prevent that malicious culture from infecting the Ostrogoths, managing to delay their collapse for a generation.
At the time the automation technology presently fielded did not exist, and the ability to secure production from thieves could not be decentralized.
This enables today the transcendance of centralization, preventing theft of production and wealth by armed gangs through modern security tech. Centralization depends on armed gangs and theft, and is incapable of enabling security from itself. Today WMDs make an individual capable of their manufacture and deployment immune from gangs of armed thugs, effecting their independence from tyranny and retention of their wealth produced by their independent means.
It is that independence of means and security which is wealth, and it is possible to humanity today technologically. This is why psyops and censorship is the rampant face of centralization today, because only being addled prevents people from being reasonable, and reasonable people want to be independently wealthy.
There is today a conceivable pathway from beginning with a simple 3D printer to having all your goods and services produced by your own efforts. The rep rap movement has attempted to develop 3D printers that produce 3D printers, which enable that manufacturing ability to spread. In addition to manufacturing products, using 3D printers to build infrastructure such as houses, aquaponics, communications devices, and so forth, enable the gradual development of an automated suite of production facilities that provide all necessities of an individual, and more to invest in others.
The environmental scourges of the world are all inflicted on us by centralization. Destruction of the ecosystems of the world are caused by industrial agriculture, and the necessity of massive enterprises to produce goods, such as Barbegal. Eskimo mothers who don't live within a thousand miles of a field of corn have glyphosate in their cord blood.
When we grow our own food in our homes using aquaponics we won't drench them in endocrine disrupting, cancerous chemicals, and we won't level the forests and prairies we live in because they provide our quality of life. Decentralization prevents the toxic effects of centralization, and present us the opposite future of remaining subject to collapsing centralized global tyranny.
Millenia ago, Deuteronomy 30:15 revealed the choice we have today:
"...I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction."
From verse 11 the personal ability to do this is assured:
"...Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?”"
Peace and prosperity, death and destruction. Decentralization and independence of means, or slavery and penury unto death. Your hands will produce one or the other nominal to your future.
The raging mobs are coming.
Choose life. Do it today.
Let your Freedom tomorrow come from you today.
walhall
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 0/12)
We prepare the feast where our sons and daughters will be sated. I look forward to the day when we enjoy that good fortune in our good company.
I told ya, you'll be good company! :D
"glyphosate" is a good thing, it naturally comes from nature. Our own bodies even produce glyphosate. Glyphosate is an innocent bystander kidnapped by Monsanto as a chelator to bind their weed killing chemicals to plants. It's those chemicals that are bad not the glyphosate.
I reckon the glyphosate isn't the worst chemical in the mix, but it's a carcinogen, and it's most of the volume of the mix. Roundup has dioxin in it, a byproduct of manufacture of the active ingredient. No amount of dioxin is safe.
The point is not so much a battle of toxicity between carcinogens, but the ubiquity of the chemical pollution of our food. Eskimos didn't get exposed to it by spraying their lawns. They got it from their food, which they bought off the shelves, just like the rest of us.
Glyphosate isn't a chemical it's an organic compound. That's why Monsanto can sit in court and try claim their product doesn't harm people because it's a natural compound. Sort of how the left claims that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work for people with covid...it's basically true but it's a half truth, alone it doesn't, you have to have the zinc which is what stops the virus from replicating in the cells, hydroxychloroquine only helps the zinc break through into the cells...making it also a chelator as the zinc binds to it. Zinc on it's own can't bring on it's own the quantity needed in the cells to stop the replication. Polyethoxylatd tallou amind or polyalkaxylated surfactants such as polyoxyethylene alkylamine in round up are contaminated with 1,4-dioxane. In round up levels can be as high as 350 ppm. 1,4-dioxane is a carcinogenic and is known to damage the liver, kidneys, brain and lungs.
Arsenic occurs naturally. I still don't want it in my food. The point being food that I grow myself I will not drench in glyphosate, dioxin, or arsenic.
Industrial agriculture does drench it's products in such things, and that's why glyphosate is found in the cord blood of Eskimos.
Again, the body naturally produces glyphosate, not that what was found in the Eskimos cord blood was naturally occurring the issue is with you and many millions of others labeling glyphosate as the culprit in Round Up when it is not, it's an innocent bystander who got caught up in the fray and the reason behind it is because by Monsanto choosing to let a naturally occurring organic compound mask the underlying poisons they put in their product is in essence allowing them to use the argument that their product is safe....if everyone stopped blaming glyphosate and addressed the real poisons added head on it takes their argument away.
No.
Have you ever heard of hydrolysis? It's being poisoned by too much pure water. Drenching our food in chemicals is toxic. Glyphosate is a carcinogen when in quantity that is present in our foods. That does not reduce the far worse toxicity of the other chemicals in RoundUp.
It's the development model of centralized institutions that is the actual carcinogen, that causes Big Ag to plant vast acreages of monocultures it is economically profitable to drench in herbicide. Decentralization of food production, each household growing it's own food with aquaponics, is the solution.
Arguing about the relative toxicity of the chemicals in our mass produced simulated foods is not useful to that technological advance. Eliminating the industrial manufacturing model is. All that is necessary to do that is stop buying chemical sludge with some claimed nutritional content in it.
Aquaponics, growing our own food, is the solution. Decentralization is the solution to all political, environmental, and developmental problems in the world today.
Wrong. I studied the issue extensively, I have two pages written down on it. Glyphosate in large doses hasn't been studied enough to even warrant suggesting that, like steroids, large introductions into the body could disrupt the bodies own ability to produce it. Now, with that said, if it hasn't been studied enough to determine that then it hasn't been studied enough to label it as causing cancer. Back to the drawing board for you.
Regardless that you maintain your views on glyphosate, I have pointed out in every reply to you that was not the focus of my post, and indeed my point stands even if I did simply agree that glyphosate was less dangerous than water.
It's a diversion from the issue, which is that dependence on centralization and overlords produces penury, and potentially genocide, while independence based on individual possession and use of distributed means of production creates both freedom and prosperity.
Wealth is independent means.
May you never suffer hydrolysis.
I've learn a lot from this person, and yes I do agree you have to weed through the stuff to come to any verifiable conclusion, him and his nutter friends I owe a lot of gratitude to for sharing information that better enabled us to take necessarily precautions over this virus. While thousands of people stood in the stores looking at bare shelves we were all tucked in, stocked up and prepared for whatever was going to happen. I even wrote an off beat article on it...
https://hive.blog/palnet/@sunlit7/conspiracy-nutters-brussells-sprout-and-the-walking-dead-wtf
Nah, I enjoy the thrill of the chase with Ralph (aka valuedcustomer), we respect and tolerate each other quite well, I appreciate the fact we can engage on this level and don't feel a need to flag each others opinions.
I know that wasn't the focal point of your article, it was merely the only point I wanted to discuss. I just haven't come to any conclusive conclusion of your or any other number of articles written based on future doom and gloom of our food supply. I am sure there are many who couldn't grow a dandelion if they tried but I have a rather good green thumb for growing things, how to preserve those things for winter is a bit lacking but up until now I hadn't really seen a need to acquire those skills. My reasoning for doing so now isn't so much based on the gloom and doom stuff I read but more so from the effects of taking this country down the globalization rabbit hole. I don't see real progress and change forthcoming as easily as I thought it would when people started to rise up against it...for me personally I believe this virus was a deliberate release in response to people taking a stance...now that's some scary stuff that can get people moving to think if we are forced to stay on the same track of have nothing then learning and teaching my kids to can before I pass from this earth may prove to be one of the most vital skills I've ever taught them. Right now though even thinking, reading, commenting on doom and gloom has me worn out...what has transpired this year so far is about as much as I want to encounter right now.
I always appreciate your forthright opinions, and this may strike you as untrue, as our discussions generally focus on our disagreements. However, it is disagreement which requires discussion, as agreement is already present on matters on which both of us agree, obviously.
We will certainly continue to disagree on as many points as our experiences and understanding of the world differ, and this I account a good thing. God forbid only my own views be those of all the world, as I would be granted no criticism whatever by which to improve my understanding. If only for this reason, that your criticism enables me to better understand the world, I am grateful for your comments.
I think this reveals that in many particulars regarding governance globally we are in agreement, and I think that's why you bother to pay my posts any mind at all, deigning to weigh in when you observe I am off the rails of common sense or reason.
My own perspective on the current execution of governance concurs that people are being prevented from improving their quality of life by overlords using psychological manipulation, which implies many other things as well. The implications of the above quote from you reveals there are many points of agreement between us regarding our present social circumstances.
I am glad this enables me to benefit from your own understanding, as you are led to comment.
While I appreciate the courtesy of your comment accompanying your flag, I must request that you refrain from automated comments. I recall you do automate comment, due to your many accounts and this account's use to automate flagging of those you find objectionable.
If you should actually note that any of the opinions or facts I post are false or otherwise insuperable, no one would benefit more than I from being set straight. I am aware of my entirely human limitations, and the certainty that I am wrong in many ways about many things I would rather be right about.
Rather than a general comment that I am wrong about something, I'd prefer specific criticism that would actually enable me to become right should I be able to understand and agree with your criticism.
Thanks!
Senior, The centralization of Rome led to the collapse of the Roman Empire, but it facilitated the spread of Christianity. Today, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestantism were all born in Europe.
New continent and Europe were divided into three Christian sects, but they are a Christian civilization.
It is politically, economically, religiously and culturally decentralized, but the unity of a Christian civilization is interesting.
On the other hand, Islamic civilization, the enemy of Christianity, is different in that it is decentralized into Shi'ite, Sunni, Sufism, Taliban, Arab, Iranian, Egyptian and Libyan.
In the days when Europe was the world's hegemony in the past, wars and conflicts continued, and two world wars broke out in Europe.
After World War II, as the United States became the hegemony, World War III did not burst and only small wars broke out.
So, I think it's good that America is the world's hegemony. Currently, the world order in which the United States monitors Europe, Russia, China, Japan, and Islam is good.
In particular, South Korea wants the reality that the United States suppresses the aggressiveness of China, Japan, Russia and North Korea.
The valued-customer's argument is theoretically correct. By the way, I don't know if the valued-customer's argument fits the reality of East Asia.
If the great American civilian Bill Gates, loved by valued-customers, becomes Caesar in Korea, China and Japan, at least there will be no war in East Asia.
Today, East Asia wants the capital, skills and know-how of Bill Gates' empire.
It seems that East Asians want peace in Rome, not Roman republic.
All the religions you mention are centralized, with priests, temples, and wealth all controlled by an overlord, some kind of Arch Priest. Some are larger and more powerful than others, and some are more barbaric, but all of them are centrally controlled.
I cannot fully grasp the cultural reality of East Asia, so suspect I am likely to be wrong, at least in part, but I believe what people want from Bill Gates in Asia is a high quality of life, not being forced to accept DNA alteration and tracking ID2020 chips being injected into them.
Adopting decentralized means of production is really becoming the only way to prosper. Governments around the world are destroying small businesses, apparently intentionally targeting them and delivering their customers to large corporations who aren't restricted as are small businesses.
Centralization seems to be reaching it's penultimate stage, the point where civilian populations become a drag on the economy for the most wealthy overlords, who have more power than those yet dependent on people rather than finance for their funds. Now is when pogroms and genocides are being prepared. Death squads are being recruited, and target lists drawn up. Mobs of murderous minions are being whipped into frenzies, lusting for violence and blood like alcoholics do wine. They are drunk on the wine of violence.
East Asia is sadly more familiar with such than most places in the world. I'm sure all people want to avoid political cataclysms. I don't think we're going to be able to dodge the bullet coming at us today, that virtue signaling propagandists have fanned into conflagrations of hate and murderous envy.
We should make sure they don't have the power to do such things, and making stuff ourselves reduces their wealth and power. If we get good at making advanced technological tools and equipment, we can also make WMDs, which are designed to take out gangs rather than individual enemies, which is just the ticket for enraged mobs.
I really hope that people everywhere are strapping up with weapons that will make mobs with torches, nooses, and pitchforks obsolete, because that will make overlords obsolete.
Then we can improve our standards of living while massively increasing our individual freedom of action. I will die before the world I foresee comes to pass, but I will die with a smile on my face, happy our posterity will live better lives than we did.
Edit: also, Christianity may not be quite as unified as you think. Wars have been fought, people burned alive, and genocides committed because of sectarianism, all across Europe, and the rest of the world is not unscathed.
Senior, you are right. By the way, since Christianity and Islam fought a war to centralize each other, a new continental civilization was born.
Senior, you are right.East Asians want to be rich like Bill Gates, but they don't want to be Bill Gates' experimental animal.
Since East Asia is relying on the hegemony of the United States to enjoy an uneasy peace, there seems to be few East Asians who embrace your sublime and outstanding ideals.
The ruling classes of Korea, China, and Japan are trying to rise above each other with the support of Bill Gates.
East Asians do not yet know the concept of overload. They are dominated by Ultranationalism , nationalism, collectivism, religiousism and materialism.
Perhaps they will understand you as one of the many conspiracy theorists in America. There are many conspiracy theorists in the United States who want to become famous.
I agree with you. Europe was almost destroyed by Hitler, a Christian heresy, but with the help of the United States, Europe was saved. However, modern Islam is going through more serious internal religious wars and divisions. Europe is now at peace with the help of the United States, but the situation in Islam is unlikely to improve.
Senior, my English is awkward so I hope you don't misunderstand my writing.
=p I have no interest in fame. This is why I am pseudonymous. There are many who seek fame, but I am not one of them. I also hope that I am not only someone that theorizes about conspiracies, but one of the few that offers means of solving the problems conspiracies present. I continually beat the drum of individually gaining means of producing goods that technological advance avails humanity today, and support my opinion regarding how this solves problems with copious citations and examples.
It is my desire to enable humanity to better prosper in peace and joy, and so I do not merely complain about impediments to our happiness, but seek to provide people understanding of how to improve their lots.
I understand why you mention you are learning English, but it is very difficult to notice except that you mention it. I hope you soon feel your English is good enough so that you no longer need to point out that you still are learning it. Very few native English speakers have used the word 'sublime' in writing IME, and fewer yet use it correctly, as you did describing my philosophy.
I do my best to uphold the ideals Jesus taught, which I do believe are sublime.
Wow, you are great!
My dear senior, your praise is always appreciated, but at the same time makes me arrogant.
You speak easy English to the level of East Asians like me.
So, when I talk to others, I always have to use an English dictionary and translator.
I am worried that I will get used to your easy English!
A handsome Australian guy @tarazkp always speaks difficult and beautiful English that Europeans admire.
Americans speak English that is easy for me, while @tarazkp speaks British style English that is difficult.
Do Australians think they are Europeans, unlike Americans?
Perhaps i should speak British English, so blonde beauties wouldn't like it? In fact, blonde beauties are not talking to me. hahaha
I wish you a healthy long life.
Blond beauties love the British accent. As I have aged out of their range of interests, I no longer spend much attention on blond beauties. You are young yet, and probably will profitably affect an accent. LOL
Dear @valued-customer, I am a lonely 45 years old Korean single man. Do you not understand my sorrow and solitude? hahaha
I might understand...
It is the young that suffer most the lack of companionship. As we age the press of urgency we experience is lessened, and our grasp of the drawbacks of such liaisons improve.
Maybe affect an ascot with the accent? This will lend you an air of ribald, English scholarship, which at least a few blond beauties might notice. Really depends on your overall presence, and the effect you intend to achieve. If you are lonely, I suggest carefully reconsidering that effect, as it seems to be falling short of your needs.
I am most comfortable alone, so do not equate solitude with loneliness. I am seldom more lonely than when in the press of too much poor company, rather than profoundly immersed in solitude.
Honored senior, I was joking. Don't take it too seriously.
=p
It was funny. I joke back.
Forgive me if I offended you.
Dear senior, I know you were joking now. By the way, I thought your generosity might make me a rude fellow.
So, @roleerob was probably worried about that and advised me.
In the future, I will not be joking with you and will be polite to you.
Although I don't know American culture and customs, I don't want to be rude.
So, I ask for your advice. Honorable senior.
Thank you!
I may not understand your sudden concern about my feelings. I would feel disrespected if you felt unable to joke because of concern for my feelings. Do not fear such trifles as being judged by me. My judgement of my peers is insignificant.
It is your judgment of you that matters, my friend.
Should you ask my advice, I will provide it as I'm able. Have no fear on that account either.
Rest easy in your heart.
Senior, thank you for your generosity. By the way, I am worried that I will make a mistake in conversation with other people because my English is poor.
I thought I should show respect to you because you are about the same age as my father.
I will follow your offer. By the way, I would be more grateful if you taught me American manners and customs. Not everyone will be as generous as you are.
Senior, I hope you are healthy and longevity.
Do not worry if I might take offense. If I reveal I have misunderstood you, as I have in the past, rather than take offense I will be happy to gain understanding when you rephrase what you said so that I do understand. Regardless, even if you deliberately insult and malign me, I will not be offended, because even such speech only defines you yourself, and not me.
This is exactly why I state to you that my judgement is a small thing to you, and it is your judgment of you that matters.
I am sure that you will be alarmed and dismayed by American customs, as respect is often shown by insulting others. Strangely, when you do grasp that doing so reveals confidence in that person's self respect and disregard for the judgments of others, this will make sense. Due to cultural and language barriers, as well as my intention to be polite, I have no intention of insulting you in the American fashion.
Thank you for your kind words. You reveal your good character by your good wishes. I am honored by your consideration, and blessed to benefit from it. May your joy always increase.
Dear senior, thank you for your kind suggestion. By the way, surely I still have English proficiency and experience that is lacking in international standards.
So @roleerob encouraged me to read and write English rather than posting. He said it is important to learn how to use the Hive blockchain, API and nodes.
I don't currently know the usage and concept of Hive keychain, blockchain, and cryptocurrency. So, I decided to study more than posting.
I was originally disappointed with Korea's closed environment, so I wanted to learn foreign news, information and new technologies.
The status of Koreans is determined by money, origin, academic background, occupation, and family.
Korea is a feudal society, so it is difficult to escape the individual identity class. So, I wanted to increase my value by learning information and technology from abroad that is more open and advanced than Korea.
The upper Korean class gets American citizenship through studying in the United States. By becoming Americans, they become Korean royalty and nobility. However, poor people like me are bound by identity class.
I didn't want to be a permanent servant of Korean warlords as you said. So, I wanted to improve my value by learning a culture developed abroad.
As you say, personal freedom comes from personal property.
I definitely thought I should first understand the hive blockchain ecosystem, as @roleerob claims.
I'm not good at English, so I'll write more next time.
Senior, I wish you good health and longevity.
Oh no! Once again I see some translation difficulties of some sort with my Korean friend @silvergrifin007. I have no idea what I said that you could interpret to mean I was discouraging you from posting. Let me state here and now that I cannot imagine doing that.
The two issues I recall writing about to you were:
As far as understanding the mechanics of the Hive blockchain, in response to asking for help with an error, I tried to educate you on how to ensure you connected to the best Node available. I think it is always prudent to understand matters to the best of your ability, but understanding the depths of all the complexities on the Hive blockchain are not necessary for you to simply write posts and comment on the work of others.
Thank you for this insight into your history there in Korea and the motivation for what you are attempting to do "in here." As an American, I have no experience with the "identity class" you describe there in Korea. The closest I have come is the 14 years I spent working for a global British company. In my trips to Britain, I saw current examples of their social classes. While I knew this was part of British history, for some reason, I mistakenly thought that was in their past. Not so ...
I will bookmark your comment for future reference. Thanks again for sharing this insight.
Dear @roleerob, Thank you always for your kind help.
Please understand that I use English dictionary and translator to translate your text.
I found that I had to post to the hive more carefully. I thought my clumsy English could mislead others. Posts posted to Hive cannot be deleted. So, I plan to post carefully in the future.
thank you for your help.
I am practicing coding to display the source of an image.
Am I right about the way I display the image source?
I use the way Koreans code image sources.
The HTML code you sent to me didn't work, so I used the HTML code used by Koreans.
It is challenging and hard work @silvergrifin007, to figure out all of the details on these blockchains. Let alone translation issues on top of them ...
You have demonstrated a willingness to invest your time in trying and not give up. I hope you are feeling some encouragement, with the progress you are making.
Yes, in the one post I checked (little time this morning ...) I did you see you are now providing sourcing information. Glad to learn you found some input somewhere in Korean that was helpful to getting this particular challenge behind you.
Senior @roleerob, thanks always for your kind help. The image source code you gave me didn't work, so I got help from Koreans.
😉 Yes, you did mention this already ...
... so I will correct this statement, which is likely once again the result of a translation issue.
The source code I provided to you does of course work, as was demonstrated repeatedly, in the attempts I invested my time in to help you. Further, I took considerable time to extract the image code you put into one of your posts, which was failing. Pointing out the spaces you had left in there and which needed to be removed, since HTML coding requires it. Illustrated by your exact image then working, after applying these corrections, since I embedded it in my response to your post ...
Not to be concerned @silvergrifin007, however, as you are demonstrating that you have solved the problem via someone who can communicate to you in Korean. Hopefully, they can also help you with technical problems in the future, with avoiding the challenges you face with translating instructions written in English.
Dear @roleerob, I always appreciate your kind help. By the way, my English is not good enough, and I am wrong with HTML coding. I need a lot of study and training in the future. So, I'm currently taking Korean HTML and javascript coding lessons. However, it is difficult. Hahaha
Respected senior, I wish you good health and longevity.
Very good. Perhaps I will be seeking your help, in the future! 🤗
Senior, by the way, the level of lectures by Koreans is lower than that of Americans. If I speak English well, I will be able to listen to American lectures. It is a pity that I lack English proficiency.
Just found out I have Hive Account. Good to see you buddy!
Welcome back to the fold! Just in time for the shearing of the sheeple. How's Germany?
hehe, Germany is doing fine, at least better better than the US atm :)
Well, that's damned with faint praise =)
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Interesting excerpts you have chosen from God's Word @valued-customer. Beyond others reading the context in which those statements were made, here is another one, for your consideration:
In both yours and here, we read the consequences facing man. Free to choose? Yes. Free to choose the consequences of our choices? No.
As Americans, in understanding the legacy handed down to us from our Founding Fathers (as your post is on Independence Day), I know of no better quote tied to this above than the following:
In the brief time I have this morning, I do not have the time to track down the source of this, but I have never forgotten it, as I think it captures very concisely what choice man has in front of him. When it comes to his decisions about "centralization" and "decentralization."
Well said, and gently so.
Thanks!
While there is no “perfect” place to continue @silvergrifin007 / @valued-customer, in this imperfect “virtual world,” I would like to respond to what is written here on this thread. At the end, I will tie it to the content of this post.
Before I begin, I find myself often wondering “what are you doing ‘in there’ @roleerob?” given the obvious limitations of this “virtual world.” I have often written “Face Time” is more than an app to me. Much more … I could wish we could all sit down in a wonderful little coffee shop not far from my home and share some fellowship there. And discuss what I am about to say. But … That is not possible …
First, I want to genuinely apologize for writing the response I fairly quickly put together yesterday to what my Korean friend had to say. In his answer to my question about posting a picture of Jesus into my post about private keys. The cultural and language gap we have between us in effectively “talking” is considerable. One of which I am well aware. So … It was, therefore, foolish on my part to attempt to subtlety communicate what I intended to convey.
I will address that openly now. As clearly and concisely as I can manage. And it is addressed to you @valued-customer. As you will see below, I have done what I can to help @silvergrifin007, but it is in God’s hands and the power of His Spirit as to how much of it he will truly and fully understand.
You closed your response yesterday with this …
… which provides reference to the foundation of what I have to say to you this morning. Indeed, God has “written in our hearts” what is True and what is not. As you are a self-professed advocate for the truth (and what mature person isn’t?) and a champion for “reason,” I will suggest to you an essential point for why I would refer to this statement as foundational …
In our earlier exchange, you left me with the impression you believe there is a God. Your statement above reinforces that impression. Therefore, I believe it is irrefutable that God’s Truth overrules any statement of “your truth,” or “my truth,” or anyone else “waxing eloquent” about what they think the Truth is. The question before us (or anyone else …) is what does He have to say to us about the Truth? And where and how does He convey it? As a disciple of Jesus Christ, I believe the answer is the Bible.
As a disciple, we are called to obedience to what He reveals to us. And “Rule #1?” The Great Commandment. And “Rule #2?” The Great Commission!
In each of our individual lives, if we have ever had any encounter whatsoever with a self-professed Christian, we have all experienced the eternally fatal shortcomings of man to “walk in obedience” to these profound statements of Truth from a Holy and Sovereign God. Far too often, we experience self-righteous, condescending, and hypocritical attempts which typically produce a “hardening” of their recipients hearts, rather than the intended “softening” …
Simply stated, these are manifestations of what the Bible calls “the flesh” rather than “the Spirit” … I certainly have experienced these myself. Too many times … Perhaps you have as well …
For what it is worth, my own attempts at obedience are informed by and patterned after what I might refer to as the Great Example, as the Apostle Paul was God’s chosen vessel for reaching the Gentile world. And supernaturally gifted to carry out His mission ...
So …
What does this have to do with our “exchange” of the present? Everything! Combined with what I clearly wrote, in my response to @silvergrifin007, about “time and opportunity.” I do not believe in chance. To do so would be contrary to belief in a Sovereign God. While I might not understand why, I believe all the events in our lives are ordained by Him.
The 3 of us did not “accidentally” meet “in here.” It was for a purpose. Is it possible that purpose has no greater focus than your eternal salvation? Would @silvergrifin007 and I serve a greater purpose than to be “tools in His hands” toward that possibility? A “band of brothers?”
I will leave it with you both to do what you will with these questions. You have now the basis for what I have written and will write, from time to time as I am inspired to do so, in whatever future there is for me “in here.” If there are any questions on this, I will do what I can to help either of you with them.
In closing @valued-customer, your response was graciously and somewhat humbly written, from my perspective. That speaks well for you. Again, from my perspective …
What it will be to what I have written here this morning, now “out in the light” and “from the heart,” I leave with you. In my part-time efforts “in here,” I would like to continue to be able to “talk” with you, as I am not troubled by differences of view on any topic. It is just part of life.
May God bless you and yours with a peaceful new day! 🙂
P.S. I could write a post about what I now see sadly “connected” to your writings my friend. I would be hard-pressed to provide you a more powerful example of why “decentralization” will never work. God will not allow it …
There can hardly be a more basic question than “Is man good or bad?” Many today would respond with the first option, based on a global belief in some form of evolutionary “enlightment” … The Truth argues forcefully, with supernatural authority and power, for the second option. Leading to the essential need to restrain it. History is littered with the broken bits and pieces of man’s failed attempts to rebel against this …
So … On Independence Day, we can celebrate the opposite. Of one of the greatest examples in history of man’s inspired attempts to create a form of governance under which these painful realities are addressed. If only men will submit and surrender to the Truth …
Nope! Instead, we live in a time of plague and pestilence “out there” and you now have what appears to be a “virtual” bot form of it following you around “in here” … 😔
@ silvergrifin007 / @ valued-customer를 계속할 수있는“완벽한”장소는 없지만이 불완전한“가상 세계”에는 [here] (https://peakd.com/hive-163399)에 응답하고 싶습니다. 이 스레드에서 / @ roleerob / re-silvergrifin007-qd1zqr). 마지막으로이 게시물의 내용에 연결합니다.
시작하기 전에 종종“roleerob에서‘어떻게하고 있니?’ 이 "가상 세계"의 명백한 한계를 감안할 때. 나는 종종“얼굴 시간”은 나에게 앱 이상이라고 썼습니다. 훨씬 더 ... 나는 우리 모두가 내 집에서 멀지 않은 멋진 작은 커피 숍에 앉아 그곳에서 교제를 나누기를 바랍니다. 그리고 내가 말하려고하는 것에 대해 토론하십시오. 그러나… 불가능합니다…
먼저, 어제 한국 친구가 말한 것에 대해 상당히 빨리 정리 한 답변을 작성해 주신 것에 대해 진심으로 사과하고 싶습니다. 개인 열쇠에 대한 게시물에 예수의 그림을 게시하는 것에 대한 내 질문에 대한 대답. 효과적으로“대화”하는 데있어서 우리 사이의 문화 및 언어 격차는 상당합니다. 그중 하나는 잘 알고 있습니다. 그러므로… 그러므로 내가 전달하고자하는 것을 미묘하게 전달하려고 시도하는 것은 저의 어리석은 짓이었습니다.
나는 그것을 공개적으로 다룰 것이다. 내가 관리 할 수있는만큼 명확하고 간결합니다. 그리고 @ valued-customer에게 전달됩니다. 아래에서 볼 수 있듯이, @ silvergrifin007을 돕기 위해 할 수있는 일을했지만, 하나님의 손과 그분의 성령의 능력으로 그가 진정으로 완전히 이해할 수있는 정도에 관한 것입니다.
당신은 이것으로 어제 당신의 응답을 닫았습니다…
… 오늘 아침에 내가 당신에게해야 할 말의 기초를 제공합니다. 참으로 하느님께서는 참과 아닌 것을“마음에 기록”하셨습니다. 당신은 진리에 대해 자 부적으로 주장하는 옹호자이며 어떤 성숙한 사람이 아닌가?“이성”에 대한 챔피언이기 때문에, 나는이 진술이 기초적인 이유라고 말할 수있는 필수 포인트를 제안 할 것입니다.
이전의 [exchange] (https://peakd.com/re-roleerob-q91r0z/@roleerob/re-valued-customer-q938lu)에서는 하나님이 있다고 생각하는 인상을 남겼습니다. 위의 진술은 그 인상을 강화합니다. 그러므로 나는 하나님의 진리가“당신의 진실”,“나의 진실”또는 다른 사람들이“진실이 있다고 생각하는 것에 대해 설득력있는 왁싱”에 대한 진술을 지배한다는 것은 반박 할 수 없다고 믿습니다. 우리 앞에 (또는 다른 사람에게) 질문은 진리에 관해 우리에게 무엇을 말해야 하는가? 그리고 어디서 어떻게 전달합니까? 예수 그리스도의 제자 인 저는 대답이 성경이라고 믿습니다.
제자로서, 우리는 그분이 우리에게 계시하신 것에 [종종] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A15&version=KLB)로 부름 받았습니다. 그리고“규칙 # 1?” [위대한 계명] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A36-40&version=KLB). 그리고“규칙 # 2?” [위대한위원회] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A16-20&version=KLB)!
우리 각자의 삶에서, 우리가 자백 한 그리스도인과 어떤면에서라도 만난 적이 있다면, 우리 모두는 거룩하고 주권하신 하느님의 진리에 대한이 심오한 진술에“순종하게”걷는 사람의 영원한 운명의 결점을 경험했습니다 . 너무나 자주, 우리는 의도 된 "부드러워 짐"보다는받는 사람의 마음을 "고 화시키는"자기 의롭고, 교묘하며 위선적 인 시도를 경험합니다.
간단히 말해서, 이것은“성령”이 아니라“육체”라고 부르는 성경의 표현입니다.… 나는 이것을 직접 경험했습니다. 너무 여러 번… 아마도 당신도 ...
그럴만한 가치가 있다면, [그 위대한 예] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%209%3A21-23&version=KLB)에 따랐을 때 순종에 대한 내 자신의 시도는 정보를 받고 패턴 화됩니다. 사도 바울은 이방인 세계에 도달하기 위해 하느님 께서 택하신 그릇 이었기 때문에 3A21 % 2D23 & version = NASB). 그리고 그분의 사명을 수행하기 위해 초자연적으로 선물을 받았습니다 ...
그래서…
이것이 현재의“교환”과 어떤 관련이 있습니까? 모두! @ silvergrifin007에 대한 응답으로“시간과 기회”에 관해 내가 분명히 쓴 것과 결합했습니다. 나는 우연히 믿지 않습니다. 그렇게하는 것은 주권 신을 믿는 것과 상반됩니다. 나는 왜 그런지 이해하지 못할 지 모르지만, 나는 우리 삶의 모든 사건들이 그분 께서 제정하신 것이라고 믿습니다.
우리 셋은“실수로”“여기에서”만나지 않았습니다. 목적을위한 것이 었습니다. 그 목적이 영원한 구원보다 더 큰 초점을 두지 않을 수 있습니까? @ silvergrifin007과 나는 그 가능성을 향한“그의 손에 도구”가되는 것보다 더 큰 목적을 제공 할 것인가? "[형제] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8%3A14-17&version=KLB)의 밴드?"
나는 당신이이 질문들에 대해 무엇을할지 당신과 함께 둘 것입니다. 당신은 이제 내가 미래에 저에게“여기에”있을 때마다, 내가 영감을 받았을 때, 내가 쓴 것과 쓸 것의 기초를 가지고 있습니다. 이것에 대한 질문이 있으면, 그들 중 한 사람을 도울 수 있도록 최선을 다하겠습니다.
@ valued-customer를 닫을 때, 귀하의 [응답] (https://peakd.com/hive-163399/@valued-customer/re-silvergrifin007-qd24ul)은 제 관점에서 자비 롭고 겸손하게 쓰여졌습니다. 그것은 당신을 위해 잘 말한다. 다시, 내 관점에서…
오늘 아침에 내가“빛으로”그리고“마음에서”내가 쓴 것에 대해 나는 당신과 함께 떠납니다. "여기에있는"시간제 노력으로, 나는 어떤 주제에 대한 견해 차이로 고민하지 않기 때문에 계속해서 당신과 "대화"할 수 있기를 바랍니다. 그것은 삶의 일부일뿐입니다.
평화로운 [새로운 날] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm+118%3A24&version=KLB)을 통해 여러분과 여러분을 축복하시기를 바랍니다! 🙂
추신 나는 내 친구가 당신의 글에 슬프게“연결”한 것에 대한 글을 쓸 수있었습니다. “분권화”가 결코 효과가없는 이유에 대한보다 강력한 예를 제공하기 위해 열심히 노력하고 있습니다. 하나님은 그것을 허락하지 않으실 것입니다…
“사람이 선한가 나쁜가?”보다 더 기본적인 질문은있을 수 없습니다. 오늘날 많은 사람들은 어떤 형태의 진화 적“깨달음”에 대한 전 세계적 믿음에 근거하여 첫 번째 옵션으로 응답 할 것입니다… 진실은 초자연적 인 권위와 힘으로 두 번째 옵션에 대해 강력하게 주장합니다. 그것을 억제해야 할 필요가 있습니다. 부서진 조각과 인간의 실패한 시도로 역사는 혼란에 빠진다.
그래서 ... 독립 기념일에 우리는 그 반대를 축하 할 수 있습니다. 인간의 영감을 받아 역사상 가장 위대한 사례 중 하나 인 이러한 고통스러운 현실을 다루는 형태의 지배 구조를 만들려고합니다. 만일 남자 만이 진리를 제출하고 항복한다면…
아니! 대신, 우리는 전염병과 역병의시기에 살고 있습니다 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chronicles+7%3A12-14&version=KLB). "in here"를 둘러싼 "가상"봇 형태 인 것 같습니다. 😔
I can but commend you on your effort to reach out and extricate me from my confusion to the best of your ability. I reckon that's our natural state. It's why we resort to following orders, why institutions replace God as our master, and why we fall short of every measure of perfection.
Indeed, that is how we are made. I submit that insofar as God is not at question in your understanding, and I will discourse with that view accordingly, that plan for our existence is no mistake. It is how we are intended to be made.
However, this does not mean we should substitute human masters for that truth, however incomplete and partial, God reveals in our hearts. The fact that it is partial reveals our personal effort to gain greater understanding is intentionally purposed. We are either meant to remain nescient of greater understanding, or to increase our understanding through our effort, our experience of the world, moderated by that guidance received in our hearts. I submit it is the latter that is true and in accordance with what Jesus taught, and the former a malignant falsehood overlords seek to use to gain of us minions, rather than peers.
Where does Jesus say this? He does not. He exhorts humanity to follow his example, not blindly obey edicts of overlords. We cannot fail to see that every example of attempts to impose obedience through institutions, churches, temples, mosques, governments, and all, have been corrupted by evil psychopaths for their own aggrandizement.
God speaking to each of us in our hearts is exactly decentralization, and freedom to walk our own way as we interpret that revelation according to our nature, not to conform to any dogma, institution, or overlord. Each of us is delivered a different understanding in our hearts. It is impossible to say honestly that all men should obey blindly what they do not themselves receive from God and follow the example God provides by availing each of us different understanding. That is directly contradictory to what God has done.
I cannot agree that Paulinism is what Jesus taught, and reject in it's entirety the profession of faith in Paul. Romans deified their great men, and deified Jesus, and Paul was their huckleberry. If what Jesus did walking in flesh on the Earth was the act of a god, it has no relevance to me and my own walk. What inconvenience is it to an immortal being to 'die'? How ludicrous is the concept of torturing God?
Only as Jesus was just a man who demonstrated that mere men could defy overlords, suffer being tortured to death, and exemplify independence and the adherence of each individual man to the heart God informs in us, rather than obedience to institutions, Priests, or Kings, that I find is relevant to we men, and exactly decentralization that enables us to choose to bless our communities, rather than simply obey and do what we are told. That former is what Jesus did and exemplified, and that latter but creates tyrants of evil men.
He did all this and had no more resources to do it than I do, or it means nothing. He himself said more than once that nothing he did was beyond what other men could, and would, do. He specifically denied being God, and the utterly unreasonable convolutions of theologians that seek to justify his Roman deification but illustrate how insuperable denial of his humanity is.
That is what has produced the incessant corruption of every religious institution that has ever existed (not just Chrisianity), the wealth of churches, the Inquisition, evil rape and murder even of children by those that tradition of deificaiton and obedience mandates aggrandizing.
It is why I do not call myself a Christian, because that is what Christians do.
I have shrunk from saying these things, as I do not accuse you of any of these horrific crimes, yet insofar as you must identify as a Christian you cannot fail to be accused by these words.
We aren't commanded to obey what we misunderstand, but to understand. We aren't informed in our hearts completely, but incompletely, so that we will ourselves create that understanding. We aren't commanded to obey, but lead, exemplify ourselves, and personally undertake directly an individual relationship and understanding of God. Utter decentralization, complete freedom, the absolute antithesis of obedience to institutions and evil men, is what God actually does with us, and what Jesus exemplified.
Finally, what is 'holy scripture'? The documents recovered in caves thousands of years old do not show what is today known to us is unchanged. Men have altered the content of scripture. When Jesus walked the scripture he read and said not to alter is not the scripture any Christian today is called by their faith to obey. Neither the Gospels, Epistles, no writings of Paul, James, nor any of it was scripture to Jesus. What he read, and what he based his teachings on, is all that is necessary to follow his example, I as an honest man I must reject the Romanization of his teaching that turned his followers into a weapon that conquered the world with iron and fire, in blood and woe, because I seek to follow Jesus' example, not imperial Rome's.
I fear to say these things because obedience is all that keeps some men from wickedness, faith in irreconcilable triumvirates all that gives some hope, and I would neither encourage the former nor deprive the latter. There have been those that took umbrage at my words and sought to do me any harm they could because they thought themselves champions of immortal, omniscient, omnipotent God, who was so feeble He needed defending from mere words, and themselves so great to do what God could not.
Worse is the despair of them that might lose their only hope if they are dispossessed of their dependence on false doctrines, as I have been. The corrupt and evil posturing of 'holy men' to gain power over their dupes craftily secure their temporal power and also seek my end, demonize me, twist my words, and undertake to confuse more their minions is incessant.
So much possible harm, with so little potential good, that can come from me expressing these facts compels me to seek discretion with diligence.
You reveal you are no minion, no cretin incapable of grasping this truth, and you have sought this discourse forthrightly, so I have spoken what I have seen revealed.
May it do you no harm, and increase the blessings you enjoy.
Edit: >"...a...bot..."
Bernie is just a person, no less confused than I. His attentions may deliver him some benefit. I am recommended by him as so important he must attend to my every post and comment.
It's hard not to get all swole in the head about it.
Thank you for your well-considered response @valued-customer, to this latest “exchange” around our understanding of what is True. Some further input, for your consideration:
The portion of what I have written, from which you have extracted this excerpt about obedience, very intentionally contains 3 hyperlinks. To the words of Jesus Christ Himself. I am not sure where the confusion lies then, as I do not know how this can be more clear. Based, of course, upon what I believe to be the only source of His words – the Bible. If you take another look, then perhaps that will help clear this up.
I’ll now ask a similar question:
Where are you reading anything like what you are stating here? Or, if you didn’t read this somewhere, upon what do you base this statement?
?..? Paul was imprisoned by the Romans. And was ultimately executed by them … I could ask again where you are reading anything contrary to this historical fact.
I know this sounds redundant, but I will once again ask where you are seeing this written? What I have written intentionally contains a number of direct references to God’s revelation of Truth to us. Which you have chosen to make reference to yourself, in your post here. 👍
It will be helpful to me, in providing whatever counter points you wish to make, to cite the source of your understanding of them.
To the contrary, based upon what He has revealed to us in His Word, there is nothing in this life of greater relevance to any of us … It is of great interest to me to clearly understand how you have come to such apparent reverence for Jesus, yet deny so much about Him. I covered a great deal about what the Bible itself (your argument is not with me …) has to say about Him in our earlier exchange, so not sure any attempt to recreate any of it here is going to be all that helpful.
The rest of what you have written “sounds” like much more than just an intellectual exercise for you, my friend. Far from it! What you have written sounds like you have suffered serious personal consequences (or?) somewhere back in time. Of course, if I am understanding this correctly, I have no way of knowing what that might be. I would like to understand it more, as it would surely improve my grasp of why / how you have come to your understanding of the truth you have written about here this afternoon.
That said, you may also considerable it to be none of my business. How fervently you feel “led” to be an “evangelist” for your understanding of the Truth, I have no way of knowing. I’ll just take you at your word, either way.
To close for now, I want you to know that it is even the possibility of what I read this morning being a “stumbling block” of some sort to you that led me to set aside my plans for the morning and write what I have above. I won’t say more than that, but will happily answer any questions it might raise, should there be any.
And, to set your mind at ease, …
… you need not be concerned on my account, as I do not think this could happen. From past exchanges, you surely know I prefer “straight up” dialog and do what I can, from my side of any interaction with my fellow man, to set their minds at ease on their potential for causing some offense.
I do hope you will feel comfortable continuing, as your time permits, with answering some of these questions, so I can better understand the basis of your point(s) of view.
I confess I have been pressed for time, and relied on my recollections of long past reading, failing to follow the links you provided, which fault I have now rectified.
I do not disagree with your words now, but my hurried grasp of them earlier misled me, which thankfully you caught. My understanding of the commands to which you refer is to love humanity, as in to seek the benefit of them we can and to harm none, with enduring commitment, and also to love God. If that is your understanding as well, we do not disagree in this. I apologize for my fault.
It stands as my experience, which I believe you share. It is written here, a statement of fact that I live daily, as do you yourself. Is there some disagreement you have with it?
Are we not each personally reached by God? Is that attention merely automated, a canned message, or is it personal and unique to each of us? Are we not the author of our will, the sole entities that impel our limbs to move, our lips to speak, our eyes to see what is there? Finally, is there some other way we can interpret that revelation, besides according to the nature we have been created to undertake? Can I see with your eyes, or feel with your heart? I cannot be other than I am, and to suppose God converses with me and expects some other interpretation of that conversation than what I will undertake as my created being is wont to do, seems a bit silly.
I do not create me. I but command me, without reservation whatsoever, and thus in the conduct of my affairs am supremely at liberty to act as I will. I know of nothing that better describes this fact than complete freedom.
The specificity and personalization of our interactions with God in our hearts is utterly decentralized, distributed to us each and individually, not partaken of through mouldering parchments or lectures of priests in common with any. How else can this interaction be described if not decentralized?
It is not contrary to my assertion. Do you assert that the Holy Roman Empire did not declare the writings of Paul scripture? While pagan Rome killed him, we are told, after Constantine Holy Rome venerated and accounted his words scripture. This was not stated by Jesus, but men with imperial ambition, that used those words to draft conscripts in Jihads that conquered every scrap of land they could. That utility to such men is absolutely contrary to that commandment Jesus did speak.
Jesus said to not judge others and do them harm unless you were perfect, and emperors slaughtered millions just to take what was theirs. I do not think I could provide a wider contrast between philosophies and actions should I try all my days.
Nothing Jesus said or did could justify murderous imperial conquest, yet Rome claimed it acted on his authority. It is through his deification, the manipulation of Christians to obey them as his representative, and additions of Pauline and New Testament scripture that had nothing to do with either Jesus, nor scripture, that availed them of that temporal power, recommended evil in his name, and claimed to have been undertaken by his divine power.
Nothing claimed by Christian Rome can be conformed with anything righteous, nor in accord with what Jesus himself was, taught, or exemplified, and I reject it as antichrist in spirit and fact.
Jesus spoke of humanity as the temple of God, and despite being a carpenter (a builder) he laid not one stone on another to construct any Earthly shrine, demanded no money, took nothing from anyone, loved all equally, even those that murdered him as they murdered him.
The scripture he knew is all that is necessary to this undertaking, and not one jot nor tittle more is possible to recommend. Indeed, it is that addition of Paul and others that distorted and utterly perverted that example and teaching of Jesus into burning at the stake and raping children for God.
My long past reading leaves me without chapter and verse numbers, but addressed by a man as 'Good Rabbi', Jesus said "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."
This specifies he is not God, and should not be conflated with God. He claims with this statement to be a man, like other men, bleeding, farting, stumbling on the road, and incapable of the aspects of God that exceed the powers of men.
Beyond this, his own assertion, I submit it is utterly beyond reconciliation with reason or physics that God could be a chunk of meat. My points about the crucifixion illustrate the inapplicability of such to God. The old canard about God making a rock so heavy He can't lift it applies. Can God be less than God?
There is no God but God. In this the Muslims have the right of it.
I will here point out that nothing that conforms with reason, with the experience each of us has of existing, and acts possible to such meatsacks as we are, is possible to reconcile with deification of men. The Romans deified Jesus, and the Gospels were written long after he died, of questionable provenance, and this does not lend them any relevance as scripture whatsoever.
Jesus never read them.
The Romans deified many men. Do you accord any of them co-divinity with Jesus? Can God be a rock too heavy for Him to lift? The very idea of men being God is a pagan idea, long predating Christianity and exemplified in the Roman traditions applied to Jesus for political purposes.
Describe to me how to torture an immortal being to death. Keep in mind that being is omnipotent. There is nothing real about the very concept of killing an immortal being that conceived and bare the universe with his will. It's nonsense, suitable for pagans leaving bowls of gruel at the feed of their idols.
It's literally the same exact principle as worshipping idols. If a man can be God, then so can a stone.
Jesus, as a man, loved humanity and gave us an example of how society could rise above war, penury and profit, prejudice and hatred, and Rome killed him for it. Then they declared he was a god and conquered the world in his name.
Nothing could be more antichrist.
God is not mocked.
Jesus said "...these things, and greater things than these..." men would do. Those other men will do things God did not? Men can exceed each the other their accomplishments, but none can God's.
Finally, what matters it to me if the immortal, omniscient, omnipotent creator of the universe can pretend to be tortured to death without getting all fire and brimstony about it? I am not God. It has no relevance whatsoever to what men can or cannot do.
Saying God died on the cross is a lie, or God is dead.
The convolutions of theology seeking to support the deification of Jesus are ludicrous and absolutely disingenuous. God is God. Men are not God. Men aren't even idols. We're sacks of meat that all die, all suffer, and all can do exactly every real thing Jesus did do that inspired generations of people in the Roman empire to follow his example despite the tortuous power of the Roman legions.
That's why Rome deified him, and used that determination of people to follow that good example of absolute freedom to do as they will despite any torture or deprivation, to turn that revolutionary power Jesus revealed society has to transcend power itself, into a weapon of war by deception.
That deception is deification of a man who lived as we should.
That life he revealed avails ordinary men power to assert their freedom to obey the voice of God in their heart, and refuse to obey empires, soldiers, and torturers. No greater power exists on Earth that men command, and it is utterly distributed to one and all, as decentralized as anything conceivably could be.
I do not often speak of Jesus and what his life reveals about freedom and decentralization, but it is those very principles that also grant to decentralized means of production that same power to free us from tyrants and vampires seeking to destroy us.
I do not think I disrespect Jesus one bit when I deny he was God, but rather properly grant him incredible respect as a man with a simple truth that delivers the power to end war, empire, and suffering not only on Earth, but across the very heavens we dip our toes into today.
Freedom and decentralization of our will is exactly that message Jesus lived, and love for our fellows, and though I seek to not pollute my evangelism of that message in my posts on decentralization and freedom with the discussion we are having now, and the extremity of toxicity that introduces (all too often) into discourse, I do seek with all my might to do what he did: to set men free to prosper in joy.
Back “in here” a bit this morning @valued-customer, to see if there was any follow-up from you, to which I needed to respond. Before getting on with my day …
At the end of your reply above, we (I and any others who may be reading this) see this statement:
Whether you would reconsider this choice of words or not, as well as on what basis you might do so, of course I cannot say. But they are clear enough …
”But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.” These foundational aspects of a blessed life were established by the Sovereign Creator of all that is. Established specifically for His image bearers and them alone.
What is required to walk in daily communion with them? As I have throughout our exchanges, I will answer both this and your ”Is there some disagreement you have with it?” question, by reference to His Word:
We see reference here to "the way" rather than any sort of wording that would support any possibility of "our own way" ... This statement is decreed by The One who claims divinity, as the basis for the authority from which to make it ...
With that, I have done all I know to do to remove any "stumbling block" that the exchange of a couple of days might have represented for you. And will now close out this exchange on your post, as you wish, by replacing it with the ultimate stumbling block.
Pollution? While there is still time, I will pray our Lord grants you the grace to reconsider your hardened position against Him, while it is still an option open to you. His Story is so much greater than whatever personal history you have behind this appearance of a "Roman fixation" in your understanding of it. Infinitely greater ...
오늘 아침 @ valued-customer에게“여기에”돌아와서 응답해야 할 후속 조치가 있는지 확인하십시오. 내 하루를 시작하기 전에…
위의 답변이 끝날 때, 우리 (나와 이것을 읽는 다른 사람들)는 다음 진술을 봅니다.
당신이이 단어의 선택을 재고 할 것인지 아닌지, 그리고 당신이 무엇을 할 것인지에 대해서는 물론 말할 수 없습니다. 그러나 그들은 충분히 분명합니다 ...
그러나“이제 믿음과 소망과 사랑이이 세 가지를 지키십시오. 그러나 [가장 큰 것은 사랑입니다] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A13&version=KLB)” 모든 창조주. 그분의 형상을 가진 사람들과 그들만을 위해 특별히 설립되었습니다.
그들과 매일 친교를 나누려면 무엇이 필요합니까? 우리가 교류 할 때마다 나는 이것과 당신의 대답에“* 당신은 그것에 동의하지 않습니까?”라는 질문에 대답 할 것입니다.
우리는 여기서 "*** 우리 자신의 *** 방법"의 가능성을 뒷받침 할 수있는 어떤 종류의 표현보다는 "*** *** 방법"에 대한 언급을 본다 ... 그것을 만드는 권위의 기초로서의 신성 ...
그것으로, 나는 며칠의 교환이 당신을 대변했을지도 모르는 "돌파구"를 제거하기 위해 내가 아는 모든 것을했습니다. 그리고 당신이 원하는대로, 당신의 게시물에 *** 궁극의 *** [교환 블록] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians % 201 % 3A22 % 2D24 & version = NASB).
타락? 여전히 [시간] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%206%3A1%2D3&version=KLB)이있는 동안, 저는 우리 주님 께기도 할 것입니다 (https : // www). .biblegateway.com / passage /? search = 2 + Timothy + 2 % 3A25-26 & version = NASB) 당신은 여전히 [옵션 공개] (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2055%3A6&version=KLB) 그의 이야기는 당신이 그것을 이해함에있어 "로마 고정"의 출현 뒤에 숨은 개인적인 역사보다 훨씬 더 큽니다. *** 무제한 *** 더 큰 ...
I did mean to use those exact words, for the reason I subsequently provided.
I do not believe Jesus was God. While you do not presently resort to ad homina, you should realize that many, many people will. Since my intention is not to challenge people's faith, but to advance what I see is the underlying purpose Jesus sacrificed his life to achieve - the peace, prosperity, and joy of free people - to focus my posts and comments on challenging all Abrahamic faiths rather than how to achieve peace, prosperity, and joy as free people would all but eliminate my ability to do what I set out to do.
I will not say I am a Christian. I have no interest in mocking either God nor people who believe in Christianity by pretending to be a Christian. As you may understand from my above comment I do believe that Jesus exemplified the way all people can best effect society, and speak always to myself promote the same freedom of thought, independence, and benevolence to our peers I see Jesus did.
Degenerating my posts into theological disputes would not achieve what I intend to achieve, and would instead deprecate the mission Jesus modeled, and I seek to emulate, IMHO. I have been willing to undertake this discussion with you only because you demonstrated consistently that you were willing and able to do so without simply attacking what many Christians would consider apostasy, or heresy, without regard to the actual example Jesus provided, which the vast majority of Christians do. You also have repeatedly assured me that my honest and forthright opinions would do you no harm, and I feel confident you speak truly.
My catalog reveals I have not often spoken freely on this subject, if I ever have before here, and these are the reasons why. Discussions of dogma are contrary to that mission I undertake, and the word pollution is an apt metaphor IMHO for what that would result in were I to allow it to impact those who might otherwise simply consider the principles that underlie the life, acts, and teaching of Jesus and the structure God imbued the universe with, and how people and society can achieve the best possible future.
Understood @valued-customer. From my perspective, I have neither attacked you nor been involved in anything remotely close to "toxicity," but that is simply the opinion of one man. If you would like to “straighten me out” and enlighten me to the contrary, feel free.
While I would like to have more clarity on and a deeper understanding of the source of what comes across as intensely personal in your unhappiness with “all things Roman” (sorry, fresh out of any ideas for better ways to express it), I will let it go and leave assuring you I am not your adversary.
@ valued-customer를 이해하십시오. 내 관점에서 볼 때, 나는 당신을 공격하거나 원격으로 "독성"에 가까운 것에 관여하지 않았지만 그것은 단순히 한 사람의 의견입니다. “나를 똑바로 세우고”반대로 나를 밝히고 싶다면 자유롭게 느끼십시오.
“로마의 모든 것”(죄송합니다, 더 나은 표현 방법에 대한 아이디어로 신선함)에 대한 당신의 불행에 강렬하게 개인적인 것의 근원에 대해 더 명확하고 더 깊이 이해하고 싶지만, 나는 내가 당신의 대적이 아니라는 것을 확신시켜줍니다.
My confidence in you has been well justified, I can only concur you have neither attacked me nor anything I have said.
My apparent dislike for 'all things Roman' is simply that the Holy Roman Empire (leaving aside similar or worse crimes against humanity pagan Rome undertook) consistently waged war and utterly sullied the values and principles Jesus so dearly sacrificed to affirm, uphold, and represent, and that this deprecated human rights, the superhuman love and wisdom Jesus expressed, and even the concept of God Rome's subjects understood.
I can like none of these deceptions, nor the purposes for which they were undertaken, and least the effects they exerted on society. They are the antithesis of Jesus' own life and work, and achieve the opposite purpose Jesus intended, leaving people dependent on overlords, uncomprehending of their personal relationship with God and personal responsibility for implementing God's will, and their freedom granted by that personalization to directly act on their conscience.
In my posts and comments I am often faced with hostility to, or incomprehension of that freedom, individual possession of power to effect good, and the benefits of doing that good without setting a price on it. IMHO, these present societal shortcomings result directly from the antichristian (I know of no better word, perhaps besides Satanic) perversion of Jesus' teachings the overlords of Rome produced by deception and abuse of temporal power.
Whom would Jesus genocide? Burn at the stake? Indebt usuriously to a degree that amounts to indentured servitude? Which children would he rape? None, and in no wise would Jesus do any of these, yet throughout the history of Holy Rome and the Church(es), all these have been, and still are being commonly practiced, or analogs thereof, by people claiming to do them for Jesus.
My blood itself curdles when I see such setbacks for society, depreciation of the human condition, and people hurt so. I have known people to curse Jesus for nothing he has done or sought, but because evil men deceived and did the above harms claiming to do them 'for Jesus'.
I do not like such things.
With some important family and ministry commitments behind me for the moment, "back in" here a bit this evening @valued-customer and somewhat surprised to find this response. As it is your post, I guess we can continue? I'm retired, so that is okay with me ... 😉
Away from this for awhile and now reading some of your answers to my questions, I will start off with what may surprise you. That is much of what you have to say about these "megachurches" I can sympathize with, as there are certainly many, many "sins" for which they will (and have already been ...) be held accountable. Before a Holy God who sovereignly declares over and over how important justice is ...
I think I have said this before (perhaps not), but if so I will repeat it here. I never have nor ever will be a member of either the Roman Catholic or the Eastern Orthodox churches.
That said to try and establish with you we have at least a little "common ground" in our views, I would also like to comment briefly on having experienced (like 2 weeks with a Christadelphian in Australia!) a great deal in life, when it comes to all the various "shapes and sizes" of people's views and opinions on Jesus Christ and the church. Until this exchange with you, I might have easily said I have "seen and heard" it all ...
Not the case, however, as I have no experience with anyone who professes such a strong admiration for Jesus Christ and yet rejects so much of who He Himself said he was ...
So ...
As time permits, I have some questions, which will help me better understand your perspective and the basis for it:
While well aware that some or all of this may deemed "off limits" by you, I hope you will accept that my reasons for asking are well intentioned. I seek to improve my understanding of the nature of what seems to have you "bound up," as it is not only not clear, but confusing ...
Until next time, I hope you and yours are doing well.
Absolutely. Not the institution(s) called church, but the buildings have often been marvelous architecturally. The people who have been in churches have done superlative things, but all too often affected by the confusion caused by pollution of their understanding with belief in magic, rather than understanding the real fact of consequences in the real world of dedication and devotion to people and society Jesus modeled, which creates of society paradise.
In time that understanding will prevail, that success Jesus enabled will result, and we will enjoy it.
[Edit: first, it is shown by the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Gospels are drawn from various sources, which have been subsequently edited into the documents we have today. Rome did this.]
There is only one suite of sources, although divided today into scripture and apocrypha, the texts produced after Jesus' life based on the recollections and oral histories of his acts. My consideration of what is 'romanized' and what is factual is based on the fact that Rome crafted a weapon of Christianity and to do so they deified Jesus and added a bunch of crap of service to overlords, as well as labeling troubling texts as heresy, and quashing any attempt to maintain other histories with iron and fire, such as the Albigensians.
As I am no biblical scholar, and I am ill equipped to ponder massive volumes of tedious lore, I have assessed Jesus as a man having had an epiphany of just and joyful society, and evaluated reported acts he undertook. I first consider any supernatural magical powers rude deception and lay them at the feet of Rome or hucksters making the crowds around Jesus pay. I then further parse what Rome would have benefited from adding to history and compare it to Jesus' mission of delivering people from the wicked, and ascribe my guess as to their fact or faux accordingly.
It's not that I don't believe miracles, or quantum effects, can happen. It's that I have no confidence in the reports of Jesus' acts because of the abuse of his history to turn his followers into bloodthirsty murderers such as the world has rarely suffered, and I see that it adds nothing good to the principles and actions it is undeniable a man can speak and do. The most important thing Jesus did was state how we should live, and that was the totality of what he did that is relevant to me in the achievement of the geas he set each of us.
He didn't call us to spit in mud and smear the biohazard on blind people's eyes to make them see. Nor to magically sense a touch on the hem of our garment that drew from us our power, or cast demons out of pigs. He called us to live as men and women with equal regard for others as for ourselves, to be just in our dealings, and seek to deliver to our kith and kin that society we all wish we lived in. The simple truth Jesus demonstrated is that no matter what others do to you, you can love them and work to benefit them.
If all men just did that, Jesus would rule Earth, in the hearts of men. This is what he meant by 'I am the way.' This is what I mean when I say that each of us is our saviour. [Edit: more than anything else, deification prevents this. By the pretense of ascribing Jesus' acts to God, mortals are convinced only God could do these things, so they don't.]
All the rest is unnecessary. Worse, going beyond that is counterproductive, producing such desecrations to make brutal pagans blush.
So, I leave it at that, because I can neither know exactly what is lies and what isn't no matter how much I try, and it doesn't matter anyway. If I just do that first thing, I fulfill Jesus' example. I don't need to conjure up fish and bread magically. I need to use aquaponics. Instead of giving away what I produce thereby, I can better enable folks to use their own individual aquaponics systems to provide them bread and fish every day of their lives.
This exemplifies the distributed nature of society, the sovereign nature of each of us in our personal responsibility for our achievements, and the blessings of these principles come to fruition. Jesus modeled a society where the means of production were utterly distributed, where each person was their own economic node nominal to their needs and availed of enough to make up shortfalls elsewhere they occurred in society.
A society based rather on mutual aid than collective parasitism. Both types of relationships also exist in the natural world, such as bees and flowers to exemplify mutualism, and tse tse flies to exemplify parasitism. It is easy to see that both grant benefits to one of the parties, but mutualism benefits both, and that is a preferable model for society IMHO - and I reckon we can all agree on that.
I am glad to see both Jesus and physics agree that decentralization is the proper basis for human society.
No. I have known members of both faiths, men with good and bad traits, like all men. I would recommend the video content of Brother Nathaniel of the Russian Orthodox tradition, generally promoting good and quite entertaining.
If you would lay my aversion to institutional churches at the feet of one sect or other, lay it upon Pentecostal Protestantism, as vile a perversion of true faith as ever has been afflicted on good people. Methodism also diverted me from what was good and true, as did Catholicism but through the person of one director of a youth program.
Various precepts of Christian heresies (which I consider deification to be the most primary) nonetheless do produce beneficial impacts on society, and despite it's savagery, the Christian world has been less so than others. Christian people can do admirable things for people, emulating the example Jesus lived, and this can produce even sublime social results.
The leadership of churches never allows such goodness to long stand however, as defiling what is good usually makes them money, increases their power, or feeds their lusts somehow, and institutions are ubiquitously captured by psychopaths, or the least socialized humans local to them.
Empires all fall. Eventually freedom will fulfill Jesus' life.
Okay @valued-customer. Thank you for investing your time into these answers. They certainly help clear up any questions I have about how you have reached your conclusions.
We have some "common ground" for agreement. We have considerable differences, which have eternal consequences, as these differences are not related to trivial matters ...
Ultimately, your challenge is not with me, so we can continue on peacefully coexisting "in here," at least as far as I am concerned. From what I know of you, I imagine we can agree on that much.
Have a good day!