My Take on the New "EIP" Hardfork 21 Announcement

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(Edited)

It's crazy how this whole thing has gradually shifted from rumour into actual fruition. There have been murmurings about these implementations from over a year back, if I recall correctly. Whisperings of a possible sweeping change that will introduce that vital missing ingredient of "fairness" and "equality" to the Steemit platform. However, upon discovering the nature of those changes, I quickly dismissed them as pure propaganda nonsense. Fast track to today. Oh yeah, reality has hit home and real hard too...

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First off, I absolutely hate the "I" in "EIP". "Improvement"? Interesting choice of linguistics there. I think the community can be the judge of that, thank you very much. Looks like this was a pre-decided "done deal" from long before, regardless of what we all thought about it. But anyways, there's no evidence I've got to back up such a statement so let's call it a hunch for now.

So we might also be getting a downvoting pool. To you know, stop "bad content" from getting remuneration. And free downvotes would appear the logical answer to this, right? Well, why not hand some seventh grader an AK47 and usher them into class. Not sure which one is a worse idea, lol. Or perhaps that example was a bit extreme, lol! Still... The way I see it, downvotes right now are self-regulated via using your existing voting power. Hence, they are used sparingly and only when absolutely necessary. Some might remember a pedophilic image doing the rounds a while back. That post got downvoted to shit and justly so. There was no concern about loss of voting power then. Purely a collective community effort of obliterate a piece of "bad content" that should never have been posted in the first place. Others might remember that crazy Jerry Banfield video about his attempts at sucking himself off whilst trying to coerce his mate into sleeping with him. Again, "bad content" and the community spoke. We're not stupid. We don't need free downvotes as incentivisation to remove what it perceived as "bad content". It will happens organically happen as and when need be. History has proven this. Remember all those people that pissed you off in the past? All those users you had a beef with? Well, since voting power isn't tying you down anymore, let's all have a free-for-all flagging war courtesy of the downvote pool. Very nice indeed. And anyone thinking this simply won't happen and the good Samaritans of this platform will let their high upstanding moral virtuosity take control, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Next up, we have the SPS (Steem Proposal System). All well and good in theory, but let's take a look at what's been achieved so far without it. @aggroed and @yabapmatt producing both Steem Monsters and Steem Engine. Incredible applications in their own right, one of which offers SMT functionality and delivered in record time. Who'd have thought, eh? Except these stunning achievements were just regular individuals who stumbled across this blockchain and decided to code Dapps on it. And grounds breaking Dapps, might I add. All off their "own" volition. Same goes for @oracle-d and @theycallmedan with their implementation of 3Speak for the de-platformed. "If the product is good enough, people will come". I guess that statement has some merit to it after all. This is an excellent blockchain with huge potential, thus it managed to attract innovation and commitment. And from what I hear, more "organic" development is on the way. Now, although I do understand the reasoning behind having a separate pool for development, don't forget that it will be financed through author rewards. So let's hope it doesn't turn into a big old boys club where developers proposals are voting in based on "who they know" as opposed to the "originality and contributive value" their product has to offer. Just saying.

And then we have the 50/50 reward split. To stop the bid-bots from causing widespread devastation to the platform. Solution? Possibly drive away bucketloads of content creators we already have. Why would that be the case, you might ask? Well, under our current linear rewards ruleset, everyone is on the same page, always knowing how much their vote is worth at any time. Nice and simple to understand. Ever tried explaining the concept of "Steem Power" to a non-Steemian? If so, you'll know exactly how lost people can get even with getting their head around the basics of this platform. But after the "EIP" implementation, we will have a non-linear system on anything below 16 Steem on posts. In other words, it has suddenly become much harder to offer meaningful votes without first acquiring a significant amount of Steem Power because the value of singular voting will have been slashed. So essentially, that ladder that you were climbing to build you account and status on here? Hell, it's gonna get a whole lot higher. And another point. If the previous system of non-linear rewards is anything to go by, prepare to see the same names always trending at the top instead of the bid-botted content we have now. We currently have an expanding middle-class that I'm really pleased about. Reason being because adding to your account translates to a visibly increase in your power on the platform. Take that motivating factor away from those individuals who have spent ages stacking SP with their own personal goals in place and expect the powerdowns to start in full force. Essentially, the last thing we need right now given how great this blockchain has been looking lately. And yet another stark example of this proposed hardfork seemingly extracting incentives instead of adding to them.

There are a few other areas I'm concerned about, but does it even matter mentioning them at this point? Right now, it appears HF 21 is a foregone conclusion and yeah, I'm real worried about it. And that's something I gotta say I'm pretty sick of. Being thought-consumed over these types of potential proposals and the detrimental effects they might entail. I've been here a good while and can honestly say, never have I seen such a backlash against a proposed change like this one. Is a large cross-section of the community wrong? I guess only time will tell. I get many people want to eradicate bid-bots by and large, but you also don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face. You feel me on that point? Apologies if I've got some factual information incorrect, but hey, it can't be more confusing than that ridiculous graph contained within the latest HF 21 announcement post. Let's see where this all goes. It's just...

Don't you find it ironic that we've only just come out of "Beta", to then have the economics model altered from the ground up? That's like opening a new Mercedes showroom, only to have a change of heart the week after and start selling Toyota cars instead. IN THE SAME DAMN SHOWROOM!



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60 comments
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Mannnn. I’m just trying survive out here. I’m nowhere even close to being able to live off my Steem earnings alone now. Damnnnn

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Well, it's about to get a whole lot harder out here, buddy. On the face of it anyways...

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Still no stopping over here, but looks like I’m gonna have to wait for a serious influx of new money into Steem before I ever get my dreams of dropping the whole job thing 😅

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Living off the profits from social media only, not many can do that, yet so many dream of such a huge goal here on Steem, unreasonable amount I'd say, for now at least. Perhaps people really should tone down their expectations for how much money their posting to social media can really bring. If it's so easy, everyone on Youtube/Instagram etc. would be making a "killing"

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You must not have been around for $8 Steem. Everybody was getting huge payouts. $40 a post was common for me then. That was after a month of two of being on here.

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And how long did that last? And do you know why the spike even happened?

I was here long before that actually.

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I was going by the age of the account I’m commenting to now. I didn’t know you had another account.

No. Did you buy up all the Steem and raise the prices back then? 🤣
Being silly. No worries, I know it’s unlikely to happen again. Not impossible though.

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It's got every chance of happening again, my friend. Have faith! Wanna know why? I'll be posting about it tomorrow... :)

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I’ll be here when it happens

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Yes, you got it right. It was pure speculation.

The prices could rise that high again for sure, but the ecosystem would have to actually reflect that value for the price to actually stay there for any prolonged time.

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The witnesses and devs are so sure of themselves it’s disgusting. No community outreach. No public facing debates or forums on a neutral platform. No evidence as to why things will go the way they want. They’re just asking us to trust that we’ll make more in the process. They swear it. The whales aren’t the ones who primarily stand to gain. It’s creators! Trust us.

I’m sick and tired of this crap. They keep changing the economy with these huge sweeping changes that have been decided in the dark.

It’s so irresponsible, the Top 20 witnesses should be voted out if this gets implemented.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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You echo my sentiments 100%. But sadly, there's nothing we can do except just watch everything unfold.

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Is there really nothing? Can’t we find some way of - at least in the long term - removing these dolts and installing witnesses that were worthy?

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Nope... The witnesses are put there by the most powerful players on Steemit. That's the rules of the platform and I guess we have no choice but to accept it or move on.

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No community outreach. No public facing debates or forums on a neutral platform

No offense intended but...have you been living under a rock? This has been discussed openly for 2 years (more so in the last couple of months).

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I've read inklings here or there, but nothing that borders on a public forum on a neutral platform. I couldn't find any formal polls. Seems like a lot of this took place in discords and the comments sections of disperate accounts. No offense, but if you call that public facing or an outreach, you must be a simpleton.

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Well,all those post from "disperate" accounts were very visible and on the blockchain. How much more public can they get? I don't understand what you mean by "neutral platform" (what can be more neutral than the blockchain?). Please remember that steem is not a democracy so calling for polls is naive. Here stake is king, both for determining what gets rewarded and when voting for witnesses that approve changes to the protocol. It is what it is wether we like it or not. I am just being realistic if you view that as being a simpleton then have a good day sir.

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The process needs to be centralized on a place like reddit.com/r/steem and discussions need to be scheduled and formalized. This informal process is absolutely garbage. I'm busy creating content and it's hard bouncing around to different accounts and scanning all of the comments and knowing which ones are more important than others. No economists were consulted as far as I can tell. No data was presented. Informal polls are not scientific. I don't care if it isn't a pure democracy, what I want is competence.

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(Edited)

I was going to respond in a snarky manner to your proposal about using reddit to discuss matters that pertain only to steem stakeholders but that would not be productive. I have no objections regarding the points you make about the abscence of a formal structure to discuss changes that affect all steem users.

Tokenbb forums could be used to make the proposals and highlight them on different frontends so that all steem users can have easy access to the discussion.

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There's been public discussions for years, there also was an unofficial poll. Steemit Inc also asked for community output on their latest posts and I think this is what drove them towards these updates. But I agree, there's a lot to improve on this area, they just need to be aware of it.

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(Edited)

What I want is a clear and centralized process that is public on a forum like reddit.com/r/steem where the discussions are scheduled and open for all. I had to bounce around to five different accounts and scan all of their comments. You know what I found though? Nothing. No data. An informal poll is unscientific. I saw references to various economic theories, but no reason why any of them were particularly useful in isolation, let alone together. The process is fucking garbage. Even Tim Cliff had to admit that they had zero evidence any of this would work. I didn't see any professional economists consulted and the SteemitBlog's HF21 post lacks a tremendous amount of detail. It's all a bunch of assumptions. It's infuriating and leaves me with no confidence that the Top 20 actually know what they're doing, let alone Steemit.

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(Edited)

Can't disagree with anything you say, the misuse of resources available is enormous but I hope everyone involved learns and is ready to improve.

I guess what we would need for this kind of discussion is a forum.

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A top 10 witness who is also one of the largest bid-bot owners is trolling this post and telling someone expressing legitimate concerns to leave for a competing blogging site if they don't like it.

This is a microcosm of the larger issues that started with Steem Inc's ninja mining. Only real assholes would abuse this system to max out rewards for themselves, and now they are the ones with the largest stakes and in charge of making decisions for the whole platform that solidify their grasp on power and enrich themselves. It's already limited hangout with self-dealing developers and circle-jerking insiders, where most of the communication about the fate of the network is conducted in secret, without user input and outside the reach of public scrutiny, and the hardfork will exacerbate these problems even more.

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I think we might need something akin to a coordinated voting block and way of obtaining power on the network, because as it stands I think they need to go. I completely agree with how they go about discussing the changes. They're on private discord servers and spread out across half a dozen accounts or more and done at odd times. How can anyone consider this considerate or even really public. When I say public, I mean more like a forum, where these discussions happen in a neutral way on a neutral platform like Reddit so we can have outside voices and not fear downvotes affecting anything.

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SPS (Steem Proposal System)

That was the one I kept forgeting about when people would talk about how great 50/50 was going to be. You see with SPS bigger accounts, (and all accounts), were going to have to pay for it. Well we could not have bigger accounts in reality pay for it, so we go with a 50/50 EIP "non-linear system on anything below 16 Steem on posts" so that the reality is the bigger accounts do not end up subsidizing the SPS.

But like you I do not feel any individuals comment is going to make a rats ass bit of difference and that it was a "done deal" also. I will be very surprised if the decision is no to the HF.

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Oh, I'd do a "John McAfee" if we get a no to this proposal. :)

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I’m just making this comment so I can come back to this post later! Pretty sure this is going to have some juicy juicy drama in it! I got my !popcorn ready

Posted using Partiko iOS

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Let's see, lol...

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Is that you in your safe space? You're getting hard forked just like the rest of us Steemit is basically Poolsmoor

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More lame wasted time in my opinion that fixes nothing. They just need to focus on building the blockchain and SMT and stop worrying about all the voting BS people are always going to find a way to cheat it. Just slap it an even 50.50 on selfvote and curation and call it a day.

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MIRA is all I really wanted from them which we now have. Steem-Engine is basically SMT's and works great. As for Steemit Inc and their iteration? We can only wait and see...

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To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

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Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 9.15% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!

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@ezzy I guess I am Playing Steemmonsters so Much That I did not Even Notice any of the Points about HF21 until I read your post. Yes, Lots of Interesting DRAMA Ahead.......

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Diverting focus to games of Steem Monsters sounds about right, at the moment. :)

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I'm not going to get into the whole discussion about the 50\50 system because, to be perfectly honest, I'm not the right person and I don't know the system well enough to have a strong opinion about that. I'll just say you make some good points.
I will, however, say that the downvote pool seems a genuinely bad idea. So bad that even with facebook they never came around to add a dislike button, regardless of how many users wanted it. I can see how someone would abuse of a function like that if acting with malice, but I can also see how someone could inadvertently damage the whole system with it; it just starts with a downvote under a post that I don't deem constructive enough, or interesting enough, or incompatible with my religious\political\ethical views. After a while we're gonna have users running away rather then trying to be effective creators (which is already hard, because you need to have something to say, you need to know how to say it and you probably need to have some powerful friends).

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I feel the downvote pool is a recipe for disaster. You also make some good points, like the "Facebook" one. It's gonna be a slippery slope from here. Don't mean to be FUDish (usually I'm the upbeat one about Steemit, lol) but am simply speaking my mind.

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Hi, @ezzy!

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(Edited)

I found luke-stokes recent post about how he's been demoted from 2 to 19 in the witness rankings. He's undecided about HF21 - he doesn't say it, but it looks like a clear cut case of whale collaboration to out him and get in someone else who'll vote for the change. He's had some huge names unvote his witness recently.

I'm 100% sure I won't be gaining anything from these changes, standing still is about the best I can hope for. If my rewards reduce even by 20% it wouldn't be worth my carrying on posting, I'll just go passive.

Linear rewards do kind of make sense.

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(Edited)

Thanks for commenting. And hereby is my greatest worry. People like yourself leaving because of the negative effects for content creators. You already have a significant amount of SP but demotivating the likes of you to carry on posting on this platform, is dangerous territory to tread on. If anything, we need to empower the up-and-coming middle to upper middle class. The more dolphins and orcas we have on here, the better for future prospects in terms of building communities and rewarding others in a more balanced environment.

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As I think you said - nothing we can do, we'll just have to adapt.

This will probably kill most of the micro posting around steemmonsters and other smaller projects like actifit.

On the plus side I've built up a reasonable amount of steem - maybe a bit less time spent on it wouldn't be so bad - got a few other projects in mind for the next couple of years!

Posted using Partiko Android

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His main focus for a long time now has been EOS, the same happened to Jesta. The top Steem witnesses should me mainly working on Steem and the projects around it, the payout for just being an idle member is too high.

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I found luke-stokes recent post about how he's been demoted from 2 to 19 in the witness rankings. He's undecided about HF21 - he doesn't say it, but it looks like a clear cut case of whale collaboration to out him and get in someone else who'll vote for the change. He's had some huge names unvote his witness recently.

Interesting conspiracy, but most def. not. What you're doing here is acting as if the proposed HF is somehow only valuable for whales on Steem and thus looking for clues which support this theory. However, you're missing that whales are the ones staked in this system, which means they (normally) want it to succeed, increasing their investment. And not like the last year, losing in valuation constantly. Which is why many of them looked for delegations/vote-selling in order to at least make some of the lost money back. Otherwise, they could just sell and buy into another currency.

I'm 100% sure I won't be gaining anything from these changes, standing still is about the best I can hope for. If my rewards reduce even by 20% it wouldn't be worth my carrying on posting, I'll just go passive.

I'm sure you mean that, but I'd say that's a ridiculous statement. If you're producing good content and are actively curating, you should be happy about the coming changes. Otherwise, you can switch to Wordpress, where your revenue will be prob. far, far less than what you're currently making.

But let's see, shall we?

@remind-me in 2 months

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I'll happily eat my words if HF21 results in quality content from all levels account getting duly reward - but my suspicion is that Whales who vote each other are just going to end up with higher rewards on their average content and at my level we'll just all get less, all irrespective of quality.

BTW I already earn 10* through WordPress than I do here! That's where I put all my pro-standard content which drives traffic to my resource sales and revision webinars.

Steem doesn't offer me the functionality i need for main business. Anything I earn on here for my personal posts is a bonus.

Whatever the changes, I'll adapt. I'm quite good at curation so that might not be a bad thing for me.

It'll be interesting to see the comparison 2 months down the line.

What are your metrics for measuring a successful hardfork?

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(Edited)

bucketloads of content creators we already have.

We're trying to gain millions of daily users and more, trying to hold desperately on to few bucketloads of creators isn't the path towards that goal. The current system isn't obviously working, quality content isn't being rewarded nor found. So we need...

change

These people should realize that as the pie grows in size, so does their share of it... But here they still insist on fighting for a miniscule part of a small grape, that's withering by day. Those who aren't seeing it, aren't really looking.

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Before we consider millions, let's try to keep the thousands we already have.

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(Edited)

We've been at this state now for a year or two, that's enough of time to see that this isn't working and we need changes. You want to stay in this state and keep the few thousands we have, while we're not really gaining, but others are aware that we don't have unlimited time for a window, where Steem can actually become a success.

Also, what we have is few thousand content creators, but how many real readers for that content do we have? Don't include commenters that are there just for upvotes or trying to build their own profile.

Maybe it is time to think on how we start attracting people to this place, who actually don't want to earn but find and read content just for their own enjoyment.

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You see, this is the problem. We've moved on, buddy. Remember that popular saying "Steem isn't Steemit"? Well, that applies now more than ever. We got Steem Monsters, Next Colony and Steem Engine, to name a few. So my point being that this blockchain is flourishing at the moment. People been saying Steem is dead for years now. It's just FUD, nothing more. I mean, why not simply trial some of these proposed changes on a "Steemit" SMT token, right? Hell, this could even be done on Steem Engine now!

You just have to read the comments on the latest HF21 announcement to see people are pissed at selected changes and rightfully so. Taking away from authors so that "good and valuable content" gets trending again? Lol, I'll give you $5 right now if you can define what exactly entails "good content". That statement is as subjective as it gets. I know bid-bots are a nuisance but as I said before, cutting off your nose to spite your face, just ain't the solution.

I know many content creators who've worked tirelessly in building their account to empower themselves. Not powering down and selling off their stakes to invest in other projects. And now what? They get shafted again because of the latest HF? Seems unfair to me, especially with the middle class actually creating some "proper" decentralization up in here. Bottom line is it'll be hard to find a good balance to please everyone, no doubt. But doing so at the cost of the authors themselves? What's the point of incentivizing curation when the content ain't there anymore?

Right now, I don't buy it. But hey, let's see how this all pans out.

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empower themselves

Yes, that's what everyone here is trying to do, it seems, but system where people want to empower others is what I guess these changes are trying to achieve. That system will be inherently more valuable as it will attract way more people.

And to decide if the blockchain is flourishing, you should really be counting the number of people joining, using and leaving the platform.

But yes, there's always complaints as people come from different angles. What's good for someone will affect someone else negatively, and someone might think short term and the other long term. And not everyone wants the same and even if they did, they probably won't have the same info available and their thought processes will also differ greatly. Such is life.

But I agree, let's see how it pans out. Reverting back can be always done.

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Congratulations @ezzy!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 9 with 56 comments
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