☭ Our Freer-Market Communism ☭
Comrades, some of you may or may not have heard the following axiom: "The freer the market, the freer the people." Those in the know, know this is true, but how free is the freer-market, and why do I keep saying freer?
I say freer because, in most countries, you don't have pure capitalism or pure communism. Communism is capitalism, just in the hands of the state as opposed to the people, and in many capitalist countries, there are several of Marx's planks already in place. Planks like "a heavy progressive or graduated income tax," or his first plank; the abolition of private property in favor of landlordism with rents paid annually to the state.
The best you can get nowadays until the next major revolution is a freer market. But there is something very sinister about the freer-market, and that's its communist nature. Most people are unaware of the communist nature of the freer-market, so I will now succinctly define it for you. Freer markets equally distribute the sum of the wisdom of all involved for the good of the many in the form of prices.
Well, what good are market prices anyways, and how can they benefit me? Market prices are comprised of the four C's. They are a Consensus of infinite Coordination, Cooperation, and Competition among myriads of transactions, individuals, and entities.
This conspiracy of cooperation provides to the many; price information, as well as low and competitive prices, and it makes life more affordable as opposed to cases where governments meddle and muddle their way onto the free market, destroying all the things like a bull in a china shop.
A good example of this in America is the healthcare predicament. All of the red tape and bureaucracy in the world, cannot put Humpty Dumpty back together again, in fact, they're what tore him asunder in the first place. In almost all instances where bureaucrats or commissars conspire to control the free market, they leave chaos in their wake.
So for all of you ungrateful folks out there, those who don't appreciate our freer-market communism and the benefits it provides to society without reaching into your pocket. I challenge you; before you put communism on your communism because you just love that communism, that you should first solve the knowledge problem before pushing for a system of central planning. Central planning destroys all the things, like the great nothing.
The image above is brought to you courtesy of Pixabay.
TANSTAAFL.
Any man that gets a dollar but didn't work for it gets that dollar from a man that did work for it but didn't get it.
Keep working, stop paying.
That's super deep and true @freebornangel!
Thanks go to Big Bill Haywood.
: -) sometimes I can't get a gauge on where you stand. I think I've seen you in favor of socialist type systems in the past but your comments reflect what I might want to hear. How do you personally feel about the whole thing? If communism/socialism then why, if something else why? This is not to say that there is anything wrong with keep working and stop paying but I don't give people any advice in that regard. It's a very complex issue that may effect many people in many different ways. So I either don't feel qualified enough, and or don't want to be in anyway responsible for other peoples decisions.
Keep working, stop paying is a distillation of decades of learning, and a couple epiphanies.
This book caused me to identify as communist.
I was not prepared for this revelation.
I still thought ancrap wasn't a contradiction.
It is.
I had read Goldman, Berkman, and Kropotkin many years prior to Bellamy tying up my loose ends.
I think all those people were trapped in their time.
They failed to ignite enough fires in the minds of men.
Their solutions failed to be embraced by the mainstream.
Not for lack of trying, mind you.
Berkman did time and Goldman's dead husband was declared a noncitizen so she could be deported.
All three ended their days in soviet russia declaring there to be no communism to be seen.
Just more rule by force.
So, where i stand, rule by force must be removed from the equation.
The economic system we have is built on lies and obfuscations.
Why we sell our labor for wages, only to buy it back at a discount, is just silly, imo.
Wages can never equal what we have to pay to get our labor's fruit back.
If they did, there could be no profits.
Better to cut out the bankster in the middle, iyam.
Peaceful cooperation is the way out.
Instead of setting our kids up to fail, as we do now, we have to create avenues for them to follow in our footsteps.
Picture a world where anything you want is just a mouse click from being delivered to your driveway on the promise that you not be a bum.
20k hours of labor is all that is needed from each of us to live in abundance.
We start work by our twenties, we stop 'working' at fifty.
At some point before twenty we start picking up skills for our working life.
After fifty we live a jetset lifestyle, or any other, and we will retire to space, at some point.
The sky really is the limit when the price of things no longer have taxes nor profits built in to keep the poor people poor.
Imagine the space projects unconstrained by budgets.
Their only limits are in resources and manpower.
Keep working, stop paying can get us from here to there on any given tuesday.
Do you think that communism is "Peaceful
cooperation?" Or forceful participation?
Lol, read the Goldman link.
There was no communism in Russia, nor anywhere else that wasn't bombed back into submission by crapitalism.
https://listverse.com/2016/06/29/10-instances-of-anarchist-societies-that-actually-worked/
Socialism uses force to gain compliance.
Communism offers a better deal, instead.
I know the mind warp put on you by those that have controlled what info you were privy to up to this point has your cognitive dissonance dinging loudly, but give those links a read and you can know what has been intentionally kept from you to keep you on the plantation.
You will never find freedom if you don't know that you are a slave.
Well, I don't know that I am a slave but also do at the same time. However, I'll try to give it a shot. What you suggest that is. Does it ever bother you that what they give away is the end result of capitalism and that the end result would not exist without it? AKA -- how long can a system of communism move forward without the umph that moves systems forward? What if that umph is getting rewarded obscenely for doing awesome? Should we take it away, close our eyes and hope that more umph comes from somewhere? What about just not taxing all the people for all of their labor and letting them thrive as opposed to paying for the mass slaughter that we carry out overseas?
Again, wages cannot equal the price to buy our labor back, or there are no profits.
Just as we will never repay the fiat currency debt, crapitalism insures that poor people will never rise to replace the rothschilds at the top of the crapitalust pyramid, by design.
The game is rigged.
It's a club, we ain't in it.
Your continued faith in crapitalism is a result of your fakeducation.
Read the Looking Backwards book, it makes a good, if too detailed, outline of how communism will work day to day.
Simply removing the dog eat dog aspect of competition will improve the world in ways we can't now know.
Crapitalusts routinely dump manufactured goods into the ocean to keep prices high.
It is cheaper to trash the products than to rewarehouse them.
All that labor is wasted.
I can point you to where i found my answers, but you will have to grok them for yourself.
Simply removing the option of force from the equation will change our lives tremendously.
No longer will our round peg choices be forced into square holes.
When we hinge prestige on what you personally have done, and not how many wages your grandpa withheld from his economic slaves, we will see advancements in technology that are likely to remove physical labor as we currently know it from the equation.
You can't know what you don't know, nor that you don't know it.
If somebody knows, but doesn't enlighten you, they can use that esoteric knowledge to advantage themselves over you.
You can see evidence of this in the hierarchical nature of crapitalism.
It's a club, we ain't in it.
Leastways, i am not.
No man is more perfectly enslaved than the man that falsely thinks himself free.
Voltaire
Clearly, you didn't catch the premise of kw, sp.
EVERYTHING is free.
Money is no longer used as a means of accounting.
If you want a maserati, you click the link, and when supply meets demand, viola!, a maserati in your driveway.
Abundance will never happen if we have to finance it at a bank.
But, what about the bums, fba!?
Your neighbors will know who the bums are.
Bums will, presumably, have tougher lives.
Nobody will want to be associated with them.
Violence is off the table.
Except as a defense of self.
Accumulated property is stored up self, imo.
The time and effort needed to get them is not coming back, taking them is stealing that part of my life.
Guns and ammo for everybody.
See how your choice in words evinces you as slavemaster over others?
'Letting them,..'. ??
This should be how things had been all along.
It is the state of nature.
Ruined by the first two men that picked up sticks and farmed the neighbors rather than the land.
Okay, I'm catching a vibe that you of of the belief that perhaps communism was never tried true to it's ideological framework? To avoid argument, let's just say that is true. Do you acknowledge the knowledge problem with communism? It's essentially the idea that market prices give us a lot of value. This value allows for the conservation of resources and provides us with the ability to get from point (A) to point (B) as austerely as humanly possible. Without market prices, things get rough, and I think this is why those other systems that started down the road of communism had to quickly shift to despotism until they either failed and admitted defeat or carry forward like China into the nightmare it is today.
Muh prices!
Who will tell me what to do?
Seriously?
You've got 100 orders for maseratis, serve them in order.
You've got 1000 orders for maseratis, train more makers.
You've got 10000 orders for maseratis, expand to new factories.
You've got 1000000 orders for maseratis, distribute production to other areas.
You can't give away your Chrysler?
Make maseratis.
See the efficiencies now?
Can't give your products away?
Make other products.
Can't make a go of your own business?
Grow a garden and some chickens.
Can't do that?
Do what you can.
Won't do that?
Welcome to the bottom of the heap.
We can always put the bums to work maintaining,...
Muh roads!
The main difference between Marxism and communism is that communism is decentralized.
I'm sure you recognize the benefits of decentralization.
Distributed networks work even better.
Imagine a world where a tomato travels less than 50 miles to get to your chef.
We only have to build the facilities, and distribute them.
Probably should train the chef in a number of disciplines.
Please free your mind from the old paradigm, and embrace the new.
You will not avoid it, either way.
This link will more fully explain the rift between Marxist 'Communism' and Kropotkin's communism.
My answer to the dilemma is to go the shortest route.
Most efficient in the delivery of goods over the long haul, the intent of the project to begin with.
I've watched your video, twice now, I hope you take the days necessary to read the books.
I'm at a loss for words. I mean, if you don't accept the reality of knowledge problem then I guess your magic maserati math would seem legit at face value. I think prices are extremely important, maybe you should try to create a small community that exists without prices as a proof of concept before trying to foist it upon everyone all at once. That way if/when it goes all Jim Jones to conserve the resources or save the planet, learned scholars will have another example of why communism always leads to crazy town. I'll check out your links and try to comprehend your paradigm.
Been there, done that, got bombed back into submission.
https://listverse.com/2016/06/29/10-instances-of-anarchist-societies-that-actually-worked/
We can never know the correct answers before choosing one and finding it to be right or wrong.
Crapitalism has no monopoly on the solution to managing a world without war.
Oh wait, their answer was to monetize it instead of eradicate it.
My bad.
Profits for everybody! (Except the dead.)
Good luck.
You seem to love your slavery, iyam.
Well, money and prices are a representation of time, which is valuable. In a freer-market, this value is shown in prices. You can try to remove said prices and think that people have been liberated from the "slavery of the freer-market." However, it doesn't change the fact that the poor bastard slaving away to make everyone a free Maserati is sacrificing his or her time too, and now they can't even keep track of the disparity of which they suffer under communism, because there is no metric by which to gauge the differential.
If it removes those that don't work, but get paid exorbitantly, i say that is a good thing.
Crapitalism is collapsing of the weigh of grandpa's great grandkids still farming the neighbors rather than make a product.
Perhaps, once money has been eradicated long enough, we might measure people on more things than just how wily of a business man they are, or are not.
Until you free your mind from the authorities you blindly accept, we are at an impasse.
Let me know when you get through a couple of those works i linked.
I link them to keep from replowing that ground.
They do a good job of outlining the same problems we have had since they were written.
Crapitalism has always been anathema to freedom.
Do you want a dentist that does it for the money, or one that loves to heal people?
What's collapsing is fiat. The "crapitalism" of which you speak would be far less offensive absent corporate welfare, which is the same welfare that creates welfare queens and other neer do wells. What I mean to say, is let the people have their earnings, and let corporations and those who can't make it fail. This puts the onus on their family members and those who care about them to pick up the slack. If they don't have family members or other corporate entities (in the case of corporations) who care about them, then they will fail and rightly so. The worthless person (and or corporation) will fail. Let the true nature of the freer-market sort it out.
The untold lesson of the story is; don't become disagreeable, worthless, or hostile to others, and others will take care of you when you are in need. This as opposed to your scenario where everyone is taken care of by everyone else, regardless of their merit. The strategy of which I speak to allows negative people and corporations to lose and forces them to get better if they want to win. This, as opposed to rewarding them for the wrongs they commit or the nothing that they do. Society becomes more productive with free will and self-determination. The way of communism as it's been is either successfully or unsuccessfully portrayed time and time again is anathema. There is a reason that every time it's attempted, it leads to mass murder and genocide, and that reason is that it's fundamentally flawed.
Let merit lead the way, and let the people intelligently decide where their charity should go. If you send the message that everybody ought to get everything for free, then everyone will pitch a fit when the pipe dream fails and reality hits... this is what causes the mass murder. People soon become the problem because of entitlement; corporations and people will lobby to have "worthless people" murdered. The system becomes so unsustainable that they need to keep finding new classes of "worthless people" because free energy does not exist in the realm of manpower.
The maths of eating the wealthy works for about two minutes and then you're up shit creek without a paddle. This is why communism will never be tried, it always leads to genocide, and then the next hopefuls who get sold a false bill of goods will say. "That wasn't real communism!"
It may appear that way on paper, but i doubt it will play out that way.
People become 'worthless' because nobody wants to pay for their work.
There is plenty of work for them to do, but just none worth the time of the crapitalust to exploit them for.
In my scenario, these people do work that isn't getting done right now for lack of a budget.
I would presume that we would structure things so that on any given day they can walk down the block helping their neighbors with what they need help doing.
When the space ports open there will be no shortages of volunteers, I'm sure.
Somebody will have to do the work those folks were doing.
:Rollseyes:
Wasn't that list long enough for you?
Whenever communism, not marxist socialism, was tried, the crapitalusts bombed/machine gunned those folks from the air.
Until you can show me that zomia, or Rojava, has failed, this is a dead issue.
You lost.
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB109/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Air_Force#Chiapas_conflict
Just because you aren't aware of the lies fed to you as gospel, or omitted by those controlling your information sources, doesn't make them any less false.
Sounds suspiciously like freedom.
Very few people will 'get things for free'.
I can see why you might be confused.
Equating not trading your labor for bankster notes to buy at a discount to your wages may seem free, but the work still has to be done.
If that worker isn't getting what s/he needs to keep working, they will stop.
If what that worker needs is diamond encrusted dog collars isn't it better to not filter that through the bankster's profits first?
Bankster profits tend to drive up price while contributing nothing to the labor pile.
Put 'nairu' into duckduckgo.
Crapitalism has to have worthless people to keep wages low, and slaves on the plantation.
We don't have to eat the rich, just stop slaving for them.
Let them get jobs, instead.
Nobody rides for free.
Did you read The Conquest of Bread?
Most of us won't need to work the 20k hours, the robots will replace us and we can pursue higher purposes, like helping our elderly neighbors mow their lawns rather than exploit their inability to do so for themselves for our own 'profits'.
Seriously?
From the mouth of someone professing crapitalism as panacea?
How many people did boeing and raytheon kill today, and yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that?
How much profit did boozeallen make on the backs of a million and a half dead iraqis?
Who do you figure got paid to bury all those bodies?
How much profit did the banksters make trading that labor for banknotes and again when those banknotes got traded for goods?
Open your eyes, human!
All hail, crapitalism! 0.o
Smdh, free your mind, slave.
Develop your own ideas rather than blindly accepting authority as authoritative, eh?
I know i have showed you things you didn't know existed.
There is much more that you should know before declaring your utopia superior to another.
You won't get those facts from authority, nor the corporate talking head on the flashylight box.
You will need to seek many sources of data, grok them fully, then move forward with your own ideas.
Or don't, and tyranny can do your thinking for you.
The market and systems of trade have been around long before the Fed and will exist long after. I think we both can agree that the Fed's debt-note slavery system needs to go. There is no question about it. Hell, it is probably the cause of many of the wars we have, and how to extricate our nation from this slavery to the Federal Reserve is another question entirely. The moment it is attempted, it will likely trigger war and or invasion, unless it's some kind of unanimous worldwide decision of many nations to abandon systems of fake money that can easily be inflated into oblivion. Legalizing real money for trade is half the battle. Generally speaking, war is a nasty business. However, so long as people have what other people want and are willing to kill and die for it, it will be forever with us, just like crime.
This conversation would be academic in a sound money system.
The differences between communism and crapitalism shrink severely in such a situation.
At the point that the parties to a trade set the terms independent of bankster bs there is less room for exploitation.
But, still, tell me how crapitalism works when nobody is poor enough to clean the toilets?
Will we need trillionaires to pay the millionaires to clean them?
At what point, under crapitalism, does the havenot stand on equal footing with the haves?
When does the have not take advantage of the havenot's need to have in order to eat?
Does not crapitalism presume the existence of exploiter and exploited?
This is the way to communism, too.
Not many countries don't have to trade with others to stay afloat.
Mexico could do it, but it would take a couple years to get up to speed over imported food.
Freedom Tuesday can't get here fast enough, for me.
Not much crime when you have access to everything you could need.
If people aren't willing to clean toilets at a paltry wage the key is to increase the amount you are willing to pay for someone to do shit work. In a system of real money I'm not certain how many trillion and billionaires will exist?
Equality is a fanciful myth and it's because nobody is equally meritorious. An individual needs to fill the demand that the market (or people) require (or demand), it's that simple. Your idea of exploitation is the reality of disparity. There is no parity in nature, shit is just not equal [/fullstop]. You can try to attempt to make it equal, but it will never be. You've got to work with what you've got, and do it the best way you know how. Reality has never presumed that things and stuff and people are equal. Imagine if we tried to make sports equal, this guy jumps too high so maybe we weigh his shoes down a bit? I mean come on, where are you coming from?
Don't get me wrong, what you propose would me nice. But it cannot exist without enslaving people or corporations owned by people who built something, to bow to the demands of the many. When you start to do this, you create a culture that kills innovation because innovation puts a target on your back. At the very least, I'm glad that we both agree the fed needs to go, and that in and of itself will solve many of the worlds problems.
The money will certainly spread out, but without hunger and threats of homelessness, what will crapitalusts use to motivate those less interested in making others richer?
People will do the bare minimum, and little else.
No working overtime so the boss' mistress can have a new tennis bracelet.
Which begs the question, how to motivate well fed, comfortably housed, maserati driving, tahiti vacationing workers.
My utopia jumps on it by socializing being a bum as dishonorable, and bosses full of honor.
Once honor is the coin to better living, we lose many problems.
Can you honestly say this world is being bossed by the honorable?
It's been crapitalistic a very long time.
From under a bridge,...
If the crapitalust can wait until tomorrow to get wages lower, but the worker needs money to eat today, figure wages come down today, and the crapitalust is a dollar ahead in his scheme to skim more profits?
The anarchists forced 40 hour weeks on the crapitalusts 130 years ago.
Without them we would be still putting in 72 hour weeks for the same pay.
As long as eating, shelter, etc are contingent on bowing to a master this is the inequality i am pointing to.
Until working for somebody else is purely voluntary, it is exploitive.
Capisce?
Nothing wrong with contracting freely.
Better we cooperate than compete.
This is erroneous.
Instead of twelve plus years of indoctrination of getting in the box so that your square pegged self can go into the square peg hole, the kids are free to seek their levels.
Some will take us to mp3 players, solid state memory, and the stars.
Others will grow the food, but even there, there will be those that just fail at productivity.
They will be carried by their community, or rejected by them.
I wouldn't want to be a bum in a world where not being one is as easy as walking down the street looking for somebody that needs help.
In my utopia, your 'boss' doesn't set your wages.
He does set the standard for the work.
If your work keeps getting returned for defects, you will have to find new work.
The worker finds the work that suits him best.
Can change what needs changed in his life to continue producing.
Works 20 to 30 hours a week.
Retires around 50.
Is boss of himself, absolutely. (Unless/Until he causes harm to another.)
Wrong.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white
We can sell it as a better deal than greedy crapitalusts can manage.
They seem to want to suck all the wealth to themselves and f**k anybody else.
Hardly an idea a non-member of the club should get behind, imo.
I don't think the crapitalusts win that referendum.
Not when the option is the one i offer.
Transition plan complete!
Can we also agree that rule by force needs to go?
Sure.