RE: Flip-Flop Time: Steem HF23 is Now Theft
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Steem hf23 and Hive hf23 are pretty different animals for one key reason: Hive never removed any funds from any wallet. It created a new asset
I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Go look at the blockchains
A new asset was created on steem by doing some maths on steem. The steem witnesses don't know how to process this new asset, so they ignore it. Don't take my word for this, the blockchains show it
https://hiveblocks.com/b/41818752
https://steemd.com/b/41818752
Identical blocks. This is a pre-fork block. It's is produced by a Steem witness. It did math against the steem ledger to produce balances of an all new asset. Obviously if that code ran on steem and moved anything, steem users would see their balances gone from it... but they don't. Steem just doesn't show the deposits for the new asset because it can't
The creation of the new asset would have been ignored and looked like nothing ever happened, but for one key thing - the steem witness received it, and gtg started from that point with a fresh balance of a new asset on a new chain
It might be hard to fathom - but look at the blockchain. No assets were moved from any account at any time as part of the Hive hf23
And that makes a pretty big difference when we're talking about theft
The asset in question is the community.
Justin Sun was led to believe he was buying a community.
He done got swindled.
Following Your thinking, every fork creates new asset. Technically it does 😅
So we have dozens of tokens related to previous fork versions.
lol! I get your meaning, but that's not my thinking - that'd be a normal fork. What blocktrades and gandalf pulled off was not a normal fork
On Chain1: do maths on steem balance to start ledger of new asset (still on steem). steem witnesses cannot "see" the new asset, so it's ignored and would probably just die off from consensus after a few blocks
On Chain2: fork as normal, but instead of assuming the asset steem uses, it assumes the new asset calculated on the block before it
not a lot of margin for error in that process. Quite possibly the fastest airdrop that's ever happened :D
gtg, bt, et al are frickin' mad men
I am against calling it "airdrop" still.
Look at hiveblocks before the fork happened. They exists; in #41818752 block the witness mined HIVE POWER and we can dig to transactions of HIVE between users https://hiveblocks.com/b/41818701#9713bf827dee69638ef353d77eb025e4929f6eed
How HIVE asset have existed before the fork? You can't deal with this. It is continuous chain, not a new one.
continuous chain, yes.... but not a continuous asset 41818752 is a steem witness block. You won't see the new asset on steemd, because nothing on steem was updated to show the new asset. The math is done against the original asset, but the result is printed in a new asset. The ledger for the new asset comes to life on the following block 418187523 is the first Hive block, and the first time the new ledger is ever used
That's how hive assets existed before the fork - they threw code at steem, steem took the code, but it game with this garbage noise of a new asset. As it isn't valid, consensus didn't commit it (it might have stuck around for a few blocks, but not long). That's why you see the calculation on a steem block and not on a hive block. When hive starts, it's a new asset never before processed by anything on steem or hive, and most importantly: no assets were removed from any wallet at any time. It's the whole reason for this process
I think the problem with all this technical logic and semantics is that HF23 could have theoretically pretty easily have ticked all the boxes for a "new asset" by your definition. Yet the final result would be exactly the same.
Yeah, I'm not great at right and wrong and good guys and bad guys and imagining what things might be - I don't know how people don't marvel at this technological wizardry. Legit - no stake was ever removed from any wallet in the creation of Hive
That doesn't make you feel a little cool to be able to say that about this place?
That they did it in real time AND managed a pretty smooth fork.... what hive hf23 pulled off is epic
And because no assets were ever moved from any account, Hive hf23 is not theft, but steem hf23 is. I know you say it doesn't matter because the scene looks the same at the end of the day
Let's imagine the cops call - your car is at the bottom of a lake. You left it parked in the lot!! Oh noez! You rush down there, the police arrest you and put you in jail for littering. You try to tell them it wasn't you. You're the victim! Someone stole your car and left it in a lake, and now you're in jail, because the cops don't care about the semantics of whether something was moved voluntarily or whether it was stolen.... the means of arriving at the picture do matter
I don't think we can underestimate the value of Hive hf23 - no stake was moved/removed from any account ever in any portion of the process. The same cannot be said for steem hf23
Sure, but I think this is a good time to state the obvious:
If Justin Sun hadn't attacked us, EVERYONE would say what Hive did was theft.
Only because he mercilessly attacked the network over and over did we get away with this.
We reallocated the funds of a criminal.
Honestly though, yes.
It is pretty cool how it all went down and how the witnesses actually pulled off a HF better than Steemit would have. Kudos!