RE: The Downside of Downvotes
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I downvoted this because as with most if not all complaints about downvotes, I think it was WAY overrewarded (in large part, as often the case here, by autovotes or oblivious votes).
That being said, I do agree with one point, which deserves more exposure and discussion:
Remove HIVE rewards altogether. This is my favorite option, but with some non-negotiable caveats [read caveats above]
With individual communities in charge of rewards they can create their own rules and practices for voting.
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you use your downvotes to maximize your own profit . . .game theory . . . I called this before the hardfork exactly as it is today.
Yeah you have it all figured out /s
I'm actually fine with the downvote on this post, it's just a copy/paste of a comment I made elsewhere with extra context added with the intention of getting a conversation started, and it was a success in that regard. However, the downvotes you made elsewhere look very ideologically targeted, centered on the very demographic that would seek out alternatives to the big platforms out there.
The demographics are fine, and no one is blocked off from posting. That's a core value add of a blockchain platform. But that's not the same as suggesting they should earn arbitrarily large rewards. I'm entitled to have a view on that which might be different from those who upvote.
That's the nature of the economic system we have here: rewards come from upvotes minus downvotes. If you come and sign up for the relatively low censorship (none at the pure blockchain level) then the reward economics unavoidably come along with that.
The nature of the economic system was supposed to entail a voting system that leverages the wisdom of the crowd. Please check the third paragraph of Steem's blue paper. They meant this key fundamental as the "smart" aspect of the token. And that's because if it worked, If Steem could harness the wisdom of the crowd, then the sum of all upvotes and downvotes would equate to a surprisingly near accurate result.
But unfortunately, all we have right now in the way of up and downvotes are just regular. There's nothing special about it that will help us to glean the crowd's intelligence. So I comprehend why you're doing what you're doing, but the function designed to arrive at the final result never worked. Now that you know the wisdom of the crowd does not work here on HIVE, why not just do like a regular marketplace?
If you like an article, upvote it, and if you do not, then why not ignore it? Unless, of course, you're sitting on some genius code fix that can salve the problem a bit. Here is how real crowd wisdom can get assessed. It's impossible to do here, but that doesn't mean we should abandon PoB. We need a new definition. It can be code dependant or independent, or a mixture of both.
But if it doesn't rhyme a bit with the natural markets, people will scoff, whine, and complain. When I see people like @steevc say: "we just got to normalize it." He's missing one colossal factor. If we keep getting new users, you have to keep on normalizing the upside-down HIVE-only behavior. It's a losing battle if we want it to sprout wings, take off, and fly to the moon. I hope our chain can discover what we're missing before the competitors do. If not we'll lose all the advantage.
Real Wisdom of the Crowd.
I'm not sure auto-votes have much 'wisdom'. We get plenty of posts making good rewards that may not really deserve them, but many will be scared to downvote. So normalising downvotes could mean that we can do it without fear when we think rewards need adjusting. Then we need people to not take it as a personal attack. It's all about perception and expectation.
!ENGAGE 20
"We get plenty of posts making good rewards that may not really deserve them,"Hey, @steevc, "deserve" ain't got nothing to do with it. That's my point. If the up and downvotes do not harness the crowd's wisdom, then we're just fooling ourselves when we think we can divine what rewards ought to get removed. In this situation, we have a massive stakeholder/DEV who is targeting a specific community because he disagrees with the content politically.
It doesn't matter how much effort went into a particular post, or how well written, or the fact that it's not a scam, spam, or plagiarism. None of these things seem to matter. And to be quite frank, it puts us in a situation like Facebook and Youtube. You know, the whole cancel/demonetization culture that is driving those folks to HIVE in the first place.
If we do the same thing here at HIVE, then we've lost that special thing that's supposed to make this place a shining jewel to vibrant and lively content creators who have real things to say. We should be capitalizing in the marketplace right now. All we have to do to take advantage of the situation is the exact opposite of what the big social media companies are doing.
By not canceling people for their opinion. Or by not de-earmarking (demonetizing) rewards for what they said. There are a lot of intelligent people those platforms are driving away. Let us not be that guy. Let us not be Zuckerberg, Dorsey, and the like by engaging in thought control. Let the ideas flow freely instead of trying to use downvotes as a stick to discourage people.
I watch what you guys do on the chain a lot. Interestingly, one of your go-to arguments is to say: "Join a community and blog there if you don't like getting downvoted and quit trying to take all our precious HIVE." But what if I turned that upside down and said: Why don't you start a downvote community if you guys like downvoting so much?
You can have a downvote token and downvote all the subscribers based on whatever wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey metric by which ya'll are pretending to operate. I think you can gauge the popularity of your actions by seeing if said community thrives and grows. Smooth could be the Simon Cowell, and you could be that gal who had a hit song in the late '80s with the cartoon cats.
Not sure who 'you guys' are. I am speaking as an individual on this. I do work with others on anti-abuse stuff, but that is not related to countering rancho/haejin votes.
Maybe I should stop second-guessing what smooth does, but then I have seen what he has said. People can choose if they believe him.
People are happy to take votes from big accounts who never explain their actions, but not downvotes where reasons are given. All votes are about distributing the rewards, so if someone gets $100 on a post then that's less for everyone else. The system is designed so those with the biggest stake can make the biggest adjustments. It's an imperfect system, but I can't see it radically changing.
People are not being 'cancelled' and even smooth cannot stop them posting. What counts as abuse or is bad for Hive can be a personal opinion what we are allowed to act on. There are no absolutes.
We will be judged by what we do here as our actions are public. If you look you will see that I upvote lots of people and do zero self-votes. I downvote where I think it is appropriate and don't have to justify that to you. Anyone is free to downvote me.
Peace.
So basically, you admit the system is imperfect. But then, for whatever reason, when it comes to smooth's downvote behavior, you lean into the "might makes right" fallacy. And thus, stay calm, carry on, and continue to downvote liberally in an imperfect system instead of trying to make it more perfect because why exactly? You know what, never mind, consider it a hypothetical. Some people are wired wrong and deserve the hell they're building. You remind me of the guy's wife in this video: Venal, vacant, void, vapid, vacuous, and empty of character. If Smooth were Mao Zedong, you'd be arguing that he's got every right by might to carry out the mass culling that he did. After all, he is the chairman of his self-proclaimed organization.
Keep shitting on abled content creators, and HIVE will be forever doomed to live in relative obscurity. You've got a helluva lot more stake than I do, so it's going to hurt you more now that HIVE isn't sitting at least five dollars than it does me. We need to get a "cancel account button" on this platform that deletes all content with an exit survey. Maybe the consensus of something like that data could show you, boneheads, the net effect of your activities over the past two years. You're driving HIVE's reputation into the shitter, and it's not okay with the majority of stakeholders. But again, the majority of stakeholders don't equate to the majority of stake, so I guess this POS is Smooth's to wreck as he pleases.
You know what you're doing, and so does he. And as you can gauge by the consensus of feedback on this post, you're on the wrong side of history, i.e., if HIVE will ever be blessed enough to get one of those.
You don't know me, so don't make assumptions.
I have worked hard to help build Hive up and not just for my own benefit. I don't want people to leave.
You are one of several people I have seen who had posts with a rancho or xeldal vote 'downgraded'. You still made more than I make most of the time. Did you complain about big votes with no explanation or did you just do a little dance and enjoy it? I'll make my own assumptions :)
Peace.
You know what; This is why I invited people like @haejin and @ranchorelaxo to go and support the comments at hbd.funder. If they're reward sniping over there, then we can sit back and see if smooth thinks that their stake only has merit when upvoting spam.
And the hilarious part about it is that's what caused them to stop posting to the chain in the first place. Guy made content that was meaningful to him. It may look a little spammy at first glance, but I went on youtube and discovered that he makes in-depth 5-minute long videos about the charts that he examines.
So although it may have looked like spam, it had meaning to him. And he was using his stake to upvote himself. I never had a problem with seeing his rewards because he was doing it with his stake. In the same way, I don't have a problem with values listed on hbd.funder's spam comments.
But the sheer hypocrisy of Smooth downvoting content just because Haejin upvoted it is infuriating, especially when he has the gall to reward snipe daily on spam comments to the tune of 500 HIVE. He even admitted as much that the merit of the program is somewhat unquantifiable. It's despicable, and I encourage you to pull the whale dong out of your mouth long enough to look into it.
I know you think you have a gotcha moment with me when you question whether I complain about heavy votes I get. Why on earth would I complain about that? And why would I do a little dance? My writing is my dance, and the vote is the appreciation. I've spent years on HIVE perfecting my craft and putting a whole lot more in than I got out of it, and you're asking me to look a gift horse in the mouth?
Something is wrong with you, man. This place has fried your wires upstairs. I think you think you have good intentions and all, but don't make the mistake of bringing any of your HIVE behavior into the streets.
I can see it now; Steevc is running amok in the UK or wherever the fuck, snatching up tips from waitresses and money from buskers. And then when they complain (before you burn their money.) You say to them: Did you complain after you got this tip, or did you do a little dance and enjoy it? When's the last time you complained about getting an upvote? Put the link in here right now, show me all about your bassackwards "virtues," and it better not be edited. If it is, I won't believe you.
If you are going to be abusive I'm done with you. I have plenty of friends here to talk to.
Don't take it personally, man. I can get pretty torqued off when people play head games while trying to defend those who abuse the downvote mechanics for obvious political reasons. It's probably nothing against you per se. So, don't let it ruin your day. Also, I do understand that my last comment, even if the whale dong were ommitted, may have been too much for you to process on a Wednesday night. That said, enjoy your evening and try and set aside the little bit of ribbing you got from a stranger on the internet. It's just some shit talk, not like I'm messing with your money or something like that. However, the really clever bit here is how you managed to come away as the victim in a downvote abuse thread where you were never flagged. That's very virtue of you, good Sir.
I've had my account nuked 'the powers the be', over this last 6 months (check out my account every.single.post.)
The place is a joke, where tyranny shouts 'muh community'.
Authoritarianism, with sycophantic whale fellatio experts, to keep them propped them up.
I thought you and azircon worked something out for a while, what happened? Also, what happened to that one post that you were going to do in two different styles (one professional) and the other in your usual style that examines the fundamental flaws of dPoS? I think you said one was going to be a video? I was looking forward to that.
@azircon and @lucylin, hug it out already and stop. Ya'll are stinking up the joint and making HIVE look terrible with this forever drama. Plus, HIVE would be a lot less terrible with fewer dramas. Learn to agree to disagree and leave each other alone. This shitshow jumped the shark seasons ago, all the actors have gone home, and nobody is getting paid anymore. Unless it's feeding your ego to downvote this lucy character which would speak volumes about you, let it be. Lucy's a good writer. I'd like to see him/them, whatever talk about something more interesting than the tyrants of HIVE.
If you stop being a tyrant, and he, stop talking about you, maybe ya'll be adults and accomplish something less ordinary than ego beefing on a blockchain that doesn't have as many active users as we're all pretending it does. The reason people don't stick around here is because of the power tripping. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Imagine if every time you walked past someone bigger and stronger than you, they slapped the shit out of you because they can. That's not a cool place. There are people like that, but they get labeled as sociopaths and get shunned by the rest.
In a way, HIVE can be a lot more AIDS than Facebook is, and many times, it's because people don't act right. Let's not be those people, or when we find that happening, let's get gud, let's do better. I can't control either of your behaviors or force you to get along, but what I can say is that this beef is tired AF. Who will be the bigger man and walk away from this nonsense? Ya'll are worse than Israel and Palestine at this point, and one is underpowered, so the fight isn't even fair or fun to watch.
Lets be very , very clear here....
Lucylin's downvotes .......0
The cabal's ...............approx 200
voting power of lucylin when all this started - around 1500 HP
voting power of the cabal......................- around 10 million HP
Comments made (not including a reaction to comments) by lucylin ....0
Comments made by the cabal without prompts...........................in the hundred's (probably).
Now, I don't know about you, but to me - the facts say it all.
Talk about insecure and weak ego'd individuals running things - it is truly pathetic.
I've made around $40 talking about hive, off hive (so far)
I cannot make money on my account ON hive.
It's not willful blindness, if you're unable to see the facts - it delusion. (no offence, but I think you're not stupid )
The silence of the whales to stop the shit show, also speaks volumes.
...it's their loss, not mine - I'll hack it out wherever I am (if the profit comes from discussing hive, why wouldn't I?)
I think that @theycallmedan was doing some brainstorming on dealing with downvote abuse. I'm not sure where or if any of that panned out or is evolving into something. One thing is certain. If another blockchain figures the thing out, people will ghost the fuck out of HIVE in favor of greener pastures, as well they probably should. We've had time to deal with sociopaths and are collectively either not too worried about it or powerless against it, seemingly.
Oligarchs and the iron rule, tells me nothing will happen.
I purposefully tagged him many times, trying to draw attention to it - nada.
If big player told to he narcissistic sociopaths/children, to shut the fuck up - they would, have no doubts about that.
Whale responses ?... tumbleweed.
Actions say more - an mean more - than glib word salads.
HIVE is broken, no doubt. I don't know if it can be fixed to prevent downvote abuse. I don't even know if the power players have the power to fix the broken system.
They have the power all right - but have zero incentive to change anything. (or at least, they think they have zero incentive - which is incorrect).
Power is being solidified with every sycophant upvote cast among the cabal - the 'in crowd'.
I wonder how this could/will all end, unless fixed? ....('end' being the operative word).
I hope people will get gud and act better. But all this blockchain stuff, knowing what I know now and seeing where the world is going. It feels a bit like re-arranging the deckchairs on the titanic. I fear we're facing an extinction level event.
Are we still talking about Hive? lol
The cabal (of all kinds) is going down, one way or another - just bit of chaos in the meantime - it'll all work out.
Never give the sociopath/psychopath/malignant narcissist any quarter - Their fundamentally psychological wiring is different to the rest - and not one that will never be altered - that's why appeasement never works.
I see the facts and realize the power disparity, I'm disgusted by it.
I'd like to see both sides stop talking about and stop downvoting
each other. It's stupid and it makes HIVE look bad and it means
everyone's HIVE will have less valuable because it makes this
place look undesirable. The system is unfair, this is a truism.
Making it so, is a huge challenge that isn't getting solved.
I have neither initiated any conversations, or downvoted.
Let's be crystal fucking clear about this.
There is NO 'both sides'.
It's ALL one way traffic.
My topics I choose post about on MY blog, are inspired by life events.
This is an event.
I was making enough , just - before all the bullshit - to cover my life expenses AND my granddaughters education.
That option to earn on my account was taken away from me - Other peoples actions, not mine.
Ergo - it's a very relevant subject to post about - the stripping away of another ability to earn off their does that to me - silly me. ( as it would if I'd witnessed it elsewhere, and I've spoken up many times over this last 4 years)
You talk about and deride the downvoters all the time,
presumably because the downvoters are downvoting
you. They read your words and take'em personal and
then permanently downvote you because they can.
I'd like to see you stop talking about them and for
them to stop downvoting you. However, I'm literally
powerless to make either side comply. Even if I had
the power, the downvote wars are dumb. This is why
I'd like to see @azircon stop downvoting you and for
you to blog about something more interesting than
the hive infighting. Even if I was a whale, there is
nothing I can do to control either one of you.
If @azircon can make $73.31 on a low-effort post
about how profit is like a fish, surely he can
allow you to post and profit. And maybe if
he does that, ya'll can stop this tit for tat
bullshit that is so fucking tired. I realize
it's not your fault and your fighting back
however you can. This stuff is tired thou.
And the system is imperfect, because it
does not reign in the sociopath behavior.
All I can do is ask, @azircon just let this guy
earn in peace. Nobody is financially attacking
your shitty posts about fish and ur DEC opinions.
Let him earn for his granddaughter's sake. Bury
the hatchet, this battle is stinking up the joint.
ENGAGEtokens.New users are not on auto-voters, while plenty of old users are on large value auto-voters. Some to more of them (I think more than that) are continuously posting low quality and quick posts collecting a lot of value, whilst their contributions don't deserve the value, especially compared to the quality posts of new users (and old users who are not on those large value auto-voters).
Auto voters are too lazy to review and adjust their auto votes, and that is the most positive explanation I can give to this.
Back to downvote and scaring new users. In my honest opinion, it is the trending pages and the selected amount of users getting the majority of the rewards that scare new users. In the last 4 to 5 years I have seen so many great content creators come and go because their content was undervalued a lot in comparison to high rewards on low-quality posts.
We need more governance teams, with lots and lots of downvote power. Teams that operate 100% transparent, like Hivewatchers. When taking away the rewards of all crap posts around, we can be confident we'll change the general culture in our community for the good.
I could not disagree with you more, you always focus on rewards when replying to questions about your downvotes. For me, it is more that these downvotes cause a post to be less visible to other users on this platform. That is censorship. Why should whales care if a minnow made more rewards than they should? You got plenty and good for you, the way you come off is that you and other whales are the judge and jury of content on Hive. You know exactly what you are doing by downvoting a post about downvotes, you're poking the beehive.
My solution to accounts who want to play judge and jury of content like this is to create a community-funded counter account although Layer 2 is far more civil and less expensive. An upvote cannot be the answer to downvoting when the value of the vote is not equal. All the counter account would do is counteract a bad downvote to its exact value.
It sounds smug, to say "But that's not the same as suggesting they should earn arbitrarily large rewards. I'm entitled to have a view on that which might be different from those who upvote." You are entitled to your view and to say you couldn't downvote would also be censorship, the smug part is when you say that you don't like when people are making arbitrarily large rewards, but you could post "hi" and make more rewards than a project I worked a month on and every post you do makes large rewards arbitrarily. So if you are doing it what is the problem if a minnow does it?
When a post is made and it reaches a certain value that means that the community has valued this PoB to be worth x amount, yet one account can disagree with the value this content has reached and in doing so they disagree with what the rest of the community valued this content to be. Essentially one vote vetos all the other votes.
If you look at how these large payouts are generated it is almost always the case that the bulk of the rewards comes from one or a few big accounts. Your notion that masses of minnows are all voting for a big reward and then one evil whale comes and takes it all away is not accurate.
Agreed, at the same time you pretend as if your vote is the same as mine or 100 of me for that matter, why should a big account like you care if a small account earned some extra rewards? Why can't you answer that? Again you are hung up on rewards a downvote does not only impact the rewards it impacts who sees this content on Hive, downvoting it can make it less visible so you're hit with the double whammy.
I never once mentioned that a big whale comes in and takes it all way, I said a big whale overrides what the rest of the community aside from the one account downvoting has valued that content to be.
Except that's not true. The rest of the community usually has very little to do with the large rewards. It's usually one or a small number of large accounts doing that. Why do you think it is more legitimate for one large account to suck up a large portion of the reward pool and assign it to one post? That's actually in conflict with a large amount of other smaller reward activity throughout the community (any very large reward takes away from all the smaller ones, since they all come out of the same pool).
There is no coherent reasoning that makes upvotes (which take from other payouts) whether large or small more legitimate than downvotes (which give back to other payouts) whether large or small. It's all just voting.
To be honest I don't even pay attention to whether the account receiving the rewards is large or small, and I don't think it matters. I'm sure it happens both ways. I look at the rewards and whether I think they represent a good use of Hive's reward pool and then express my opinion and prerogative as a stakeholder through voting. When I downvote, the rewards that don't get generated on that post as a result end up going to other posts by other accounts, large and small (but a great many small, in practice).
There is no free lunch on excessive payouts.
do you look at the content or is it all about numbers
I look at the content every time I vote on something. I have no automated votes at this point. Everything is manual using my own eyeballs.
Your still working on the false notion that my upvote is worth the same as your downvote
I never suggested that at all. There are many community members with different stakes. When they choose to vote (up or down) on a post their votes are added up and then the reward is computed and paid out. No one "overrides" anyone else, all the votes are added up.
Sorta talking past each other here, I completely hear you when you say that all the votes are computed it's just that yours is worth more so it has more of an impact. I just can't wrap my mind around why anyone would want to downvote someone else's work because they think it is overvalued, like why clip their wings if you want hive to grow? I know it balances the reward pool, but it also makes that post less visible. So if big accounts went around doing this they could be controlling what people see on Hive, what is decentralized about that?
...try and reconcile that statement with this reality
The @lucylin account .
hahahahahah.
This comment will age really well across the internet ...(And I will be using it).
Do you not understand the piss poor reputation hive has, because of these behaviors?
Probably not, the hive echo chamber doesn't like to let reality intrude.
I would say 'good luck with your authoritarian, commie/technocratic, project'... but that would be a lie.
THIS is the reality ....
The @lucylin account .
downvoted for a petty downvote on someone stating a differing opinion.
You don't change minds by silencing discussion
Okay so naked retaliation, since what you downvoted had no rewards at all. That's super smart in this instance, or something.
Well actually it did, and still does. But that wasn't the point anyway.
It does now because I hit it with a small self-upvote (which I normally never do) after the downvote to keep it from getting buried. Anyway, such is life.
Well, the downvote was better than typing "I frown in your general direction." :) I think we will both be okay
Tyrant mindsets are not interested in changing anything, they just want submission.
Silencing discussion enables the tyrants continued power. (it doesn't make their penises any bigger though...bless.)
All these Free Market principles around here! :)
lolololol - Stalin would be envious of this place...
The free market of the penis!
I think you're WAY overrewarding yourself in curation on Tim's hbd.funder's daily blockchain spam. I might not be the brightest bulb in the box of crayons, but I reckon that a majority of people on HIVE ask themselves:
"Does it even real, and if so, how much?" And if they don't ask that question, they just did, and now they're wondering: "Is he in my head, is he reading my mind, are my thoughts even my own, does his internal trading patterns match or exploit hbd.funder's goals?"All fair questions to ask, I'm sure. I'd like to know exactly how this project works and is it something that @haejin can safely upvote? Haejin and @ranchorelaxo like curation rewards too. Perhaps you should share, good Sirs.Now that I've turned those two onto it, I hope its' a legit project, this, as opposed to a carbon credit-like scheme where people get bank as they angrily shake their rainmaker sticks at the gods. You don't have an educational link where I could read up on it, do you? I hope you don't mind that I invited those two. It does seem like a good cause. I'm sure they'll upvote it regularly for you. And I guess, if you don't like it, you'll probably downvote those comments for being WAY overrewarded, just a thought.
"The answer to 1984 is 1776."
The @hbd.funder posts (which is not run by me) have lots of information and links in the posts themselves.
Fair enough, it wasn't my intention to imply that you are he. I know you are not Tim. I was just wondering if all the laudable efforts are making a dent in the stated goal? You do vibe with the project, right? You're not just doing that curation/reward sniping thing, are you? Thanks for the tip on where I can find more information!
It has purchased and stashed away in the DHF over 5 million HIVE, while adding over a million HBD to circulation, earning a profit of around 1.5 million USD for DHF, and while continually erasing Hive inflation (making Hive temporarily net deflationary while still paying rewards) and reducing the circulating supply of Hive below that of Steem (previously Hive had inflated more).
The purchased HIVE probably helps support the price of HIVE and the sold HBD probably helps get HBD closer to the peg, but neither is really provable as price action always has many factors (the quantity of added buying and locking away of HIVE Is provable though). I think that's a dent, but you make your own decision.
Again, I'm not math smart per se, but I noticed that on your @teamsmooth-mm account, that you're steadily buying up HBD. HBD's current price is $1.61. That said, how does all that buy pressure help to reduce the value of HBD down to a dollar? It almost seems counterintuitive to the goal of a dollar peg. However, it does seem that you are buying up HIVE on the @hbdstabilizer account, so that part shouldn't apply upward market pressure to the HBD. I mean, maybe what and how you buy crypto on your team account is none of my business, and that's fine if that's the case. I'm just trying to suss it out and figure out if I'm on Team Edward or Team Jacob. Are you a good vampire or a bad werewolf? Before you answer that, you should know that I have a thing for bad werewolves. So no more of that sexy numbers talk, like you did up there 👆, not unless you really meme it!
The teamsmooth-mm account is a market maker that buys and sells in equal quantity. It just serves to add liquidity to the market. It isn't a net buyer or seller.
Good deal. Most of this stuff is way over my head. There are so many different accounts, players, and socks on the platform. I'm not one of the ones who can readily figure these kinds of things out. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my crazy questions, Jacob ; -)
P.S. Don't ever let anyone tell you scarves aren't cool, scarves freaking rock!
Eventually removing Hive rewards was the reason I was trying to tell you about Leofinance. It has proven that it is possible to build Apps and Communities on Hive that don't have to rely on Hive rewards pool. If we were to remove Hive content rewards today, Leofinance will do just fine, because it has a healthy content rewards system in place. Other tribes/communities like Ctptalk, StemGeeks, ProofOfBrain, etc are following similar model and doing ok as well. So far, Leofinance has been the most successful one. When you get a chance take a look at leofinance.io and all the awesome things @leofinance witness has been doing. Things will get even more interesting when they complete and release Project Blank (soon).
I lean to this option as well, since I don't see a bright future for HIVE and its token value when we continue to distribute HIVE for social media activities. The reason to hold HIVE is something that needs to be revisited. What can we do to progress in that direction?