C is for: Thoughts on censorship, downvoting and token value

in hive-174578 •  last month 

There is the old saying, all publicity is good publicity, and while I don't fully agree, in the attention economy, if you get some positive attention, expect the negative.

You might have seen these characters floating about my posts the last 2 months or so,

Screenshot_20200118_224632.jpg

They flag every post thinking it makes them relevant on Steem. One of them is getting Steemcleaned for plagiarism or something, the other used to write words that no one could decipher or pull any kind of meaning from. After the EIP was introduced and the community started downvoting again, their little group masturbation was targeted, and instead of changing their behavior, they retaliated.

They don't read my posts and I do not think I have ever interacted with either of them. I did downvote some of their already greyed comments very recently to see if I can affect their reputation scores. I can.

My brother @galenkp takes the brunt of it because he downvoted @dobartim a couple of times with a 10 cent vote. So, he and @flysky downvote my brother's every post 4 or 5 dollars. I don't know who flysky is, but he is a cunt. I don't like that word, but since he doesn't like swearing, I will roll with it.

Screenshot_20200118_232413.jpg

Not the sharpest tool in the shed is he?

Just a tool.

But it isn't them I am actually posting about here, it is the immutability and censorship resistance offered by Steem.

Downvotes aren't censorship.

They can downvote all they want, they can greyout my posts (if they power up some more Steem), but what I write is here. However, what people are going to have to start to learn is that the Steem blockchain is censorship resistant, not frontends.

Frontends can pick and choose what they display and in the future, I believe they are going to become much more picky with what is displayed where. It is a question of end user experience and this is especially critical if the community is tokenized and there is value on the line.

When it comes to average users, they don't care that much about the immutability and censorship resistance, they care about user experience. The applications to arrive are going to likely become much more accommodating to user experience and develop their interfaces to bring out the best of the community, not the worst.

They can moderate, restrict and censor all they want, but as long as what is written is added to the Steem blockchain, another user interface can visualize it. For example, if there was a Terrible Poetry Tribe that rewards the uninterptetable, Dobartim could be a whale in no time.

So, while some people don't like swearing and others don't like nudity or crypto news, frontends can develop experiences to suit the end user. But, this means that they also have to police their community, or risk losing the attention of their user base and therefore, the value of their token.

When it comes to the value of tokens, use case is only important if usage actually happens - at least long-term. This is why most of the "good idea blockchain" will likely fail, because while they might have a good use case, people will eventually have to use them in the real world for them to hold value. And many won't get traction.

Steem is no different and looks to hold its value by being a blockchain that can have multiple use cases spread across a distributed network. This is why SMTs are so important, as they offer personalised experiences while still being supported by the stability of the core Steem infrastructure. That is valuable, that is distributed governance in action - free citizens, free to choose their path, free to say as they please - all protected unquestioningly.

Let me be clear. It is the blockchain that doesn't question, as it is a protocol that records what is submitted, an impartial scribe. The community however isn't impartial and does question. You can write and submit what you want and the blockchain will faithfully record it, but that doesn't protect you from social repercussions, dispute and consequences you may not like.

My brother is paying the cost of doing what he considered the right thing to do for Steem, and I guess I am too. I will pay more in the future also no doubt. The funny thing is that even criminals think they are entitled to the haul they have stolen and when confronted, will shoot and kill innocents to get away with it.

Entitlement is a constant in humanity, no matter how often nature proves we are entitled to nothing in this life - not even the air we breath. As if we were, we could polite and poison all we want and nature would make sure we still had the provisions for life.

Remember this on Steem, because you are entitled to no reward, no payout, no guarantees at all. Well, you can probably rely on that what you write will be stored immutably until the blockchain disintegrates. Not everyone needs censorship protection, but no one ever knows when they will, until it is too late.

Anyway, I am interested to hear your thoughts on censorship resistance, frontend policing, token values, downvotes or my usage of the C-word.

There are people who scream and shout who get ignored, and there are those who quietly walk into the room and everyone instinctively turns to look. Some people want attention at any cost, while others get attention by being themselves.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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  ·  last month (edited)

The amazing part to me is they have a significant stake, yet have relegated themselves to troll status out of pure stubbornness and entitlement. With abuse faucets closing, that stake will only decay over time, which is the absolute best part of having inflation.

Yeah it is a curious one. I figure it is better to have them earn less and have that Steem back on the pool for redistribution. I can keep giving them targets.

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It's going to be interesting with communities and SMT's on top of them, in the case of those two losers I think front-ends are quickly going to mute them and their votes rendering them as ghosts lurking around the deep parts of the chain finding it harder and harder to get any attention when they've already resulted in using the cheapest form of attention generation which currently is unfair/malicious downvotes due to grudges or other things.

It's funny how things work really, you try to clean this place up so the currency and economy becomes more solid by downvoting their garbage farming which in turn should increase the value of their own investment and this is the thanks you get, lol. Imagine what they could be doing with their stake to help Steem and their own investment, instead they autovote what seems at random on as many accounts as possible while targetting a few accounts for downvotes. I don't often use vulgar language on chain but if people have proven what kind of assholes they are with their actions and how they stubbornly attempt to continue to game a higher ROI while retaliating on smaller users that dare to disagree on their rewards, I don't care much of what I say to those people as they've deserved it in my opinion.

ghosts lurking around the deep parts of the chain finding it harder and harder to get any attention

I think there are going to be a few of them in the sewers. Sewer coin might become a thing that they start in order to try and build a community, and they will lurk down there until Pickle Rick rolls into town.

Yeah, they are still trying to maximize their upvotes in some way with 5% all over the place. The funny thing is that sometimes Flysky has upvoted me 3% and then flagged my next post 100% - the actions of the insane.

I am counting on that at the end of the day, these people won't matter at all and while they will benefit from other people's hard work - they will always know that it is no thanks to them. Perhaps it is just me, but I value my participation and work here - regardless of the value of the coin.

Shhhhhh..... Do not tell the "Cunts" i agree 100% with this post..... They may DV my next post.

That is what CUNTS do.....

And also why i get 20+ little piss ant DV's from the Creepy Camille Shit Steemers BOTS.

Cuz I up voted and commented on a post of a user they were bullying.

So bring it "Cunts"..... Tell Me....

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.? eql4m9tici.jpg

The first image got me, haven't seen that gesture for a while XD

My fathers fave when I was growing up.... That and thumbing his nose.

I always thought they were foolish gestures as a child and annoyed when my Dad would use them.

Look who the Fool is now.... LoL

It's krazzy's go-to insult face. Love it!

  ·  last month (edited)

This has to be the best disspost I've read on Steem so far. Were you also influenced by Eminem's latest album release? Lmao just kidding man. It is great to see you are not fazed and doing well despite the downvotes. Stay sharp!

Just listen to the song ''I Will'', that's the mindset!

I haven't had the chance to listen yet, but your post is forcing me to make the time.

:)

  ·  last month (edited)

LOL I got one from @dobartim today. I don't down-vote, well only those Christians with their church spamming in comments, and I don't really mind down-votes if you don't agree with payout, you don't like the content, etc because I know how this works. Down-votes for no reason or because of a stupid war I don't understand.

Some users don't (and never will) understand how this platform works...

Is it a Christian group or are those hacked accounts? I DV them too - it is the Christian thing to do.

A big Christian group. And LOL

Good day @tarazkp, your article was interesting and informative. I never downvote anyone, I guess I just associate it with negativity and that's not what I am all about. If I find something offensive, I just ignore them. But it's funny that just lately, I have noticed a few red arrows with a -10% from a very low rep person that I have never met on the blockchain. I am such an infant when it comes to this new place called steemit, I am trying to learn more about it everyday.
We haven't heard from @smallsteps in awhile, she is adorable by the way. I just recently figured out that you are @galenkp brother and the niece he gushes about is smallsteps. Well done.
Have a great day!

If I find something offensive, I just ignore them.

Ignoring doesn't stop reward pool abuse though. The offensive stuff, to each their own and these days, people are offended by very little.

Don't worry about those 10% downvotes at all, they are from a group organised by one person and they are harmless.

Yes, she has been quiet lately because of a couple reasons, but mostly she has been a bit ill, we have been trapped indoors a lot and - she is very busy ;D

A lot of people do no realise we are brothers it seems. We are all looking forward to @galenkp visiting in the summer :)

Enjoy your day too :)

Thanks for letting me know about those -10% downvotes, I feel better.
Sorry to hear she's not feeling well.
I heard about the summer visit and know your brother and Faith are looking forward to it also, that's great.

downvotes can feel bad even when they are insignificant in value, just because we are wired to take criticism personally. I think the trick is, do what you do and don't care what others think. Those accounts are automated, they aren't reading your work. The downvotes I am getting are from people who don't read my stuff either.

Happy to see that despite the downvotes you and @galenkp are doing pretty good :)

They are fine. Still easily $10+ posts despite those 2 downvoting.

Yes, and whilst they're downvoting me, and a few others, they're leaving you and the rest of the blockchain alone. For now at least.

I think they are only after the people being supported by the people they despise.

Yes, for now anyway at least.

Yeah, it is okay and there have been some countering votes that come in to support. I feel for Galen though, as while I have never shied away from the messy stuff, he has consistently been one of the best content creators on the platform daily and has engaged well for almost 3 years -he doesn't deserve getting downvoted like this.

Gonna send some (automated) love then ;)

Thanks mate, I appreciate it - for him :)

Thanks for that, he really is an excellent Steemian and engages a lot in other people's posts along with curation through curangel. With your and other's help countering these malicious downvotes people won't point fingers at ocdb over-voting favorites or whatever else they may think.

Glad I could help :) @tarazkp

Thank you @cardboard, I appreciate the endorsement.

I write here, in fact I am here, because I believe in it, enjoy writing and sharing the things I'm interested in and passionate about. I know not everyone loves every post I do but I put effort into it and hope that even if the topic may not suit others, that at least they appreciate the effort and style in which I present on the blockchain.

I have continued to post here, typically between 700-1500+ words over the last two months of downvoting and will continue to do so...I am not the type to quit...It's not in my nature, and especially so when I'm pushed around by bullies seeking relevance at other people's expense (and their own of course).

It actually has the opposite affect on me...It motivates, not de-motivates. So, they better settle in for the long haul because homie got words in his head...An endless amount of words...Lol. Oh so many words...Many. Many many words. Many. 🤣 (That means a lot in case there was any misunderstanding.)

#havewords #willpost

What I very much appreciate is engagement which I think will be clear to see for any who choose to investigate...And I appreciate the extremely generous way people have chosen to support me during this time and am not the sort to ever forget that.

Insignificant people can find relevance, can regain it, however many choose a different path, a negative path. It's sad really, that people like that feel relevant through their destructive behaviour but are too wound up in their feelings of poor self-worth and insignificance that they are blind to the fact that with a simple comment on my posts and an upvote they could become the hero's of the blockchain in many people's eyes. It's a mind-set, but one that takes courage, lack of ego and hubris and a little strength of character. Things that some won't ever possess.

Anyway, thank you again, the support here has been empowering and I'm very humbled and grateful.

P.s. #manywords. (just in case you didn't get it before). No one drives me away from that which I enjoy. I would have thought that would be clear by now.) 🙂

Thanks for reaching me out :)

people like that feel relevant through their destructive behaviour but are too wound up in their feelings of poor self-worth

So, toxic ones ;) We have few of those here for sure! And the fact that they can automate their toxicity is pretty discouraging but hey, we've got the community!

Hating oneself or ones position in life often spills out into hating others and the associated negative behaviour comes out also. Seen it before, will see it again.

It must suck having to constantly prop oneself up in an attempt to find relevance internally and externally...Yet, never quite finding it...I've seen it before...The attempts become more and more desperate and while there may be some momentary feeling of well-being gained through tearing someone else down, when it's dark and quiet and the person is all alone, escaping the feeling of irrelevance is impossible to do by projecting negativity.

Terrible Poetry Tribe that rewards the uninterptetable, Dobartim could be a whale in no time.
😂

I'm a fan of how the Tribes are set up to police (mute stake/content), it's more of a wild west with the lead coin.

New Steem isn't for everyone, but whereas in the past it was only the good/bad whales will enough stake to police, the awareness and tools for others are here now and I think this is a huge positive.

Overall, the place is much healthier even with these kinds of "bad actors" as they weree
bad regardless. Ar least now there is some spotlight on their behaviors.

I don't know what @dobartim teaches at Steem school, but I haven't heard much from his students. Does he have any?

Yes I agree.

Not sure of the subject either, or the pass-rate. #1stclassfail

I really don't mind the odd downvote as it is money that is sent back to to pool to be redistributed to others. That it is a way to balance the crazy votes some people receive but what is really starting to annoy me is the spamming of the comments section. Look if I wanted to read the word of God I would but when I politely ask theses numb skulls to stop it continues. Maybe there is something to be said for censorship if there can be consensus on who the really disruptive posters and users of Steem are.
I know the blockchain won't easily allow it but I would support frontends that would give me the choice to disappear some people from my view.

I would support frontends that would give me the choice to disappear some people from my view.

In this case, they can sleep with the fishes, as only one of them could potentially walk on water :D

Being a non-confronting person I tend to stay away of those battles. Basically staying away of toxic people.

Posted using Partiko Android

Yeah, that is generally the best strategy I believe. The funny thing is that I have no prior relationship with either of these people and I do not remember them commenting on a post of mine before. There used to be a way to check, but now it is not possible for me.

Downvotes may not be censorship, but they are really annoying! Especially if the person doing the downvoting has any significant amount of Steem Power. The dude going around and downvoting everyone who has SBI shares is especially annoying.

Is he still doing that? I haven't got any DVs for a while. I actually think that wasn't so bad as he was doing what he believes is correct. He also could nullify the votes.

I guess I haven't gotten any in a while either. I thought it was really shitty how he'd go in on the last day and take away basically all of the earnings on posts just because he's got a grudge against it. Seemed almost as bad as stealing in a way. Mostly I thought it was shitty because it's hard enough to get anyone to be active on Steem as it is. If new people showed up, got some SBI shares, got excited about a couple of dollars worth of earnings only to have them taken away by someone with a lot more Steem power than they'll probably ever be able to have... well, that would probably just drive them back to Facebook or whatever since they'll at least get engagement there. It's tricky here, and sometimes the earning aspect of it may just hurt the cause in some ways.

I understand why he was doing it, but at the same time the SBI has a very long return on investment and I believe it does help people stay engaged. I am pretty sure he has rethought it now and has hanged behavior a bit, but like I said, I do believe he was acting in the best interest of the blockchain from his perspective, and I can't fault that. Much better than using his stake to vote himself and a couple friends, which is much more like stealing than the downvotes.

Over time with SMTs, the Steem earnings may be of far less importance than they are now, unless one is an investor. I do think that eventually the STEEM tap on content will close. One day, not necessarily soon though.

Never heard of these two accounts before, they sound like they will be blocked on any front end or community that comes along after SMTs etc go live if they continue with that approach though...

I think moderated front ends are a must, give it a name if you want, I just call it "quality control". If the rules to moderate that front end/community is in the best interest of the community/SMT then why would you not have any guidelines or moderation for it?

The moderation is going to be interesting as people seem to expect they will be given every platform for whatever they want to say. What I like in steem is that very different perspectives can happily coexist on the same blockchain.

I think some of the tribes have already started experimenting with types of moderation, some more actively and successfully than others.

Yes I have seen tribe owners rightfully downvoting posts that are irrelevant to their tribe so they can't earn the token but they can still earn other tokens

E.g. Someone used the stem tag on a post that wasn't about the stem community and the owner gave a downvote to stop that person getting tokens but with a low SP account so it would only affect stem token earnings, nothing else.

That's the best model atm but I think it will be a bit more streamlined in future. Could just be that we only need one account and the system automatically detects that you're downvoting through a tribe or community and only removes tokens from there, rather than all.

There's gonna be some tears... There's always tears haha

Marky is active and understands the importance of moderation for STEM, it is good. I think in time more sensitive tools can be created/ applied that will improve the experience for all.

I take full responsibility of that! They are the most dim-witted people on this platform. What can I say? Not that they are making any impact, making them less as less visible. One is in 4 blacklist and the other in 2. As long as I am here, they will never be able to publish anything, at least that is my wish.

Honestly if I were them I'd power down onto a new account and try a different method next time since it seems they're too deep/stubborn to back out of anything now and on too many blacklists cause of what they attempted to do. Now you may say I'm giving them ideas but I'd rather they do something better with their stake than whatever they are doing now, they could be growing their own community/language users and attempt to see the bigger picture where giving means receiving instead of just attempting to maximize their stake like there's no tomorrow.

Lol

ha!

Lol!