Conspiracies, Freedoms: Hypocrisy in the USA

in OCD7 months ago (edited)

Alright, I guess since I'm on vacation its time for me to air out my frustrations with this rise in conspiracy nutcases, further exacerbated on Hive because it's one of the last fortresses these people have as they get cast out from other places.

Now, I know this post will not make a single flicker of a different in anyone's views. I know that I'm preaching to a choir who already agrees, and needlessly aggravating those who don't.

So I want to go in without the expectation or hopes that minds will be changed, but also risks those people who are wrong to double down on their views in a subconscious defensive strategy.

That being said, I just need to air out the grievances I have with it all.

The first thing I want to attack: Freedom

Freedom

image.png

Having lived in China for many years, I have a rather nuanced experience with what freedom actually means. Here, it isn't a word in the dictionary. In the US, freedom appears to have no concrete meaning and instead seems to be some umbrella term to mean almost anything.

If I were to put it in the US Dictionary, I would define it as 'political hypocrisy'.

Let's look at the right-wing, for example. The right are hell-bent on maintaining their freedoms, whereas the left seem to want to strip all freedom that isn't the freedom to do exactly what they tell you to do.

The right want the freedom, the right to bear arms. Why? To protect from the tyrrany of the government.

The right want smaller government, let the people do what they need to do to thrive, the government should just do the minimal things to keep the country in check.

Then, when the left say 'defund the police' - the right are up in arms (literally) protecting the militarised police services, some of which account for upwards of 25% of an entire states' budget!!. Hypocrisy?

Then, when the military and police come hammering down on peaceful protestors who happen to be left wing, illegally as can be and is defined by any legitimate lawyers out there, the right wing and their guns are... whisling idly into the wind as they turn the other cheek?

Hypocrisy

Americans don't want freedom. Americans apparently despise freedom. The left are at least somewhat open about their distaste for the concept. The right seem to desperately cling on to the illusion that the bill of rights means something, when really it fell apart long ago.

Nobody bats an eye at any of the other amendments that have been castrated time and time again. Because most Americans don't even know the bill of rights beyond Guns and Speech.

Ever asked an American what the 9th amendment is? Try it, and see them stare blankly into the void. Let's take a look:

First

No establishment of religion. It's going ok, and mostly to the dismay of the right wing who are typically pro-religion.

Second

GUNS

Third

Obsolete: No soldiers in your house

Fourth

No searches without warrants. Utterly dead. This is routine, as infinite footage will show. TSA, wiretapping, NSA spying, combing through metadata and so forth.

Fifth & Sixth

A joke. Speedy Trials can take years. In some cases 7 years. Good luck getting a competent defense lawyer on your minimum wage income.

Seventh

Nonsense (Any case worth more than $20 has the right to a jury trial...?)

Eighth

Dead. Prohibits excessive bail, fines & cruel/unusual punishment. Bail is routinely set at prices immeasurably higher than any person could realistically afford. Rape and physical abuse is rampant in the prison system. Yeah, another joke.

Ninth

basically the 'other' category. 'Just because something isn't a right written down doesn't mean it's not a right' - pretty vague. 70% of Americans support medicare for all, and that healthcare is a right, not a privilege. This is not being respected due to popular support of the people.

Tenth

Powers not granted to the federal government become state-owned. The federal government frequently goes way beyond its constitutional powers. Dead.

Conclusion.

4 of 10 are utterly dead
2 of 10 are kinda dead
2 are totally obsolete

And that leaves us with Amendment 1 & 2. Cool.

The bill of rights is meaningless. Nobody actually cares about the bill of rights, and those who do, did a terrible job at defending it.

Freedom!!

So when we hear screaming and tantrums about freedom to NOT wear a mask, even putting the lack of logic and reason aside, it doesn't even fit the agenda of the American people.

You don't have freedoms or rights, you have privileges in which you feel strongly about some and demand them to be rights according to your personal opinions at a given time in your life.

The left feel that freedom of Speech is kinda hurtful and thus this 'right' should be questions and probably stripped away entirely. This is already happening in many parts of Europe including my home country of England, where a joke or comedy routine online can put you in prison.

So when you complain about your rights to not wear a mask, try driving around at 150mph without a seatbelt for a while, see where those rights get you. If you don't end up in Jail, you might be lucky enough to end up impaled on a pylon with your brains spewed over a sidewalk.

Of course, you won't do that because the mild inconvenience of putting on a seatbelt and driving slowly is generally accepted to be a good idea.

All people across the world, the US included, make societal sacrifices to their rights to a level in which they agree as a nation to be reasonable. Just look around.

Your right to swing your arms around ends at my nose.

Your right to have sex ends at people under 16 or whatever the rules are there, and those who find you disgusting.

Your right to work ends when you stick your fingers up a girl's dress.

Your right to bear arms ends at, I dunno, tanks?

Your right to freedom of speech ends at inciting violence and 5 other areas of exception (including time & place).

And finally, your right to have CoVid-19 ends when you start spluttering it all over other people's faces.

Next time...

As for the whole nonsensical arguments of pseudoscience, well, this is already a long enough side-rant so I'll make a part 2 addressing that, unless anyone actually picks up on this post and starts debating in the chat.

If so, I'll gladly take the bait for a while at least, and compose a post-response to that/those.

Sort:  

I think you've successfully identified at least one of the problems for the erosion of freedom here in the US: people are fine with freedom as long as it doesn't allow people to act in ways they don't like. So while they want to be free from a tyrant(s), they often don't agree with freedoms that go against their "tribal" beliefs (e.g. religion, sexual standards, etc). I suppose they can even be viewed as two different forms of freedom, although they are clearly interlinked.

A related problem is that people's opinions tend to cluster based on their tribe, rather than an analysis of individual issues. In any sane world, many of the political beliefs held by both the left and right in America are contradictory within the group. But they are generally consistently held by the majority of that group. It's not because they independently came to the same conclusions about each issue. Instead, it seems like social pressure mechanisms lead them all to think the same on most issues.

While arriving at a consensus of opinion isn't necessarily bad, it is bad when it's done in an irrational way. And as far as I can tell, the current process seems mostly irrational.

Yep precisely. Trump has exacerbated the tribal form of political following, though it has always been there, but in many cases Trump continues with, or agrees with, Obama and yet those so enamoured with Obama with denounce and demonise trump for the same policies they once adored. It's quite amusing as an outsider, but baffling.

I guess we other nationalities aren't entirely innocent of it, either.

How do you discuss the constitution and not mention Habeas Corpus? Obama killed Americans with drone strikes no one cared. A republican president destroyed the constitution a long time ago (Abraham Lincoln one of the worst presidents ever) American hero) Second worse president ever (Harry Truman) dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians was a democrat. Both parties are the same war-hungry, freedom stealing, assholes. And the media and corporations working for them are the reason why no one believes a damn thing anymore.

Ah yeah, as I said to B-trades here, both sides often agree on many issues, but it seems practically taboo to acknowledge it. There are MANY policies on China right now as we speak, which have been bilateral, unanimously agreed upon. Nobody hears about that.

Obama had his secret weapon to get away with it far more than others did though: A charming-ass smile & eloquent vernacular. Pretty important.

A bit of perspective here from the rest of the world - you have two right wing parties. It's no wonder they act like "war hungry, freedom stealing, assholes".

That implies the left wing was ever at some point peace-loving, anti-war heroes. Look at the horseshoe theory. You can go so far right into Fascism that you end up at the end of the horseshoe - right next to the extreme left, Communism. Combined, they're responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths but it's hard to champion one over the other. Left or right is irrelevant when it comes to mankind's desire to kill, rape and pillage

Yeah there's not much difference between fascists and authoritarian socialists. What this really highlights is that fanatics of any stripe are to be avoided. And that includes American libertarians (right-libertarians), and naive liberals who think that calm discussion and non-violence is the solution to everything. On that point, our rights weren't won through calm discussion. Never.

I just think it's unfortunate that people are constantly and continually divided. That's the biggest reason of this "left" and "right" farce. People generally want the same thing on many issues but don't realize it because lots identify as "left" or "right" in America and many other parts of the world. If you are able to eliminate that dividing factor, and let people realize that they actually have a lot of common interests, you'd be surprised how many things could be accomplished. That won't happen though because in order to control people far easier and more efficiently, you have to separate them into arbitrary groups and keep them arguing.

If you are able to eliminate that dividing factor, and let people realize that they actually have a lot of common interests, you'd be surprised how many things could be accomplished.

Totally. I've been finding recently that the second I say 'actually, Trump made a good move here' I get denounced bizarrely as racist or right-wing lol. What... Being in China it's almost always good to see trump take action on the country, I'm bound to agree. China is bilateral and unanimously agreed upon practically daily, but society still manages to divide it in their dichotomy.

I don't buy into the idea of 'divide and conquer' in this left-right way, I think nit became self-perpetuating with no single mind, but I can absolutely see where that thought comes from, and I suppose the end result is the same regardless

I could be what you consider a "conspiracy nut case" but I do not post daily and sometimes get very philosophical and spiritual. Though I have everything seriously documented. But did you know that last June the Fed bought debt from Walmart, McDonald’s, Berkshire Hathaway and Microsoft as part of coronavirus response... collusion is what it is and since they do not talk of things like this it on TV, some have to do the dirty job, I am afraid.

I like that you can take the name-calling in good humour =) (I think).

This is one of the conspiracies I haven't even heard of, but I'll do a quick google:

Ok:

The Fed will only buy highly rated debt from financially healthy companies, or ones that were highly rated before the pandemic struck. The Fed is legally barred from lending to insolvent companies.

Honestly it seems like quite a public, normal thing that the government can do legally as a means to help prevent previously healthy corporations fall into bankruptcy, while boosting their confidence in corporate bonds.

It sounds like a complicated economic issue that certainly benefits the mega-corps while ignoring the little guy (There is no requirement to withhold layoffs, for example), but this is typical BS at this point. The government will do anything to keep the big companies going, while doing the bare minimum to 'satisfy' the minds of the workers that keep the heart beating.

Is it possible for me to simply acknowledge that my cloth mask is pretty useless against the spread of viruses and that there shouldn’t be a threat of force against me should I choose not to wear one, without being a nutjob or conspiracy theorist?

I don’t fall into the left-right, Democrat-Republican, pigeon-holing, fearmongering-fest of pseudo-science, hypocrisy, and general stupidity. So it doesn’t matter to me who claims what about Covid or which of the Amendments people still support. It’s all pretty amusing and mostly pointless.

And finally, your right to have CoVid-19 ends when you start spluttering it all over other people's faces.

This assumes that I have Covid and am shedding the virus. What if I’m not, like the millions upon millions of people who don’t have it and cannot shed it by breathing or speaking?

Should we be threatened with state violence to acquire and wear a useless mask?

Should we be forced to go buy masks that don’t prevent the spreading of viruses just to make other people feel safer? (Most of the medical masks that would reduce the spread of viral infections aren’t available, so most are left with various cloth versions or bandanas.)

It would seem that your right to feel safer ends when you or your elected representatives in government threaten force against others who have not harmed you or threatened to harm you. Simply assuming that everyone is shedding Covid is not a legitimate threat of harm to your person.

And even if you felt that this threat from others was real, it is your responsibility to take the proper precautions to protect yourself, as always. Depending on others to make you safer is never a good solution.

I understand that people probably should take more care to help prevent the spread of viruses but I simply cannot agree with legal mandates that force people to do things and prescribe punishments such as fines, jail time, or a loss of licenses for not complying...or for not adequately enforcing those rules on others (which is also happening).

The world is losing its collective mind over some of this stuff and there’s no reason why we need to just play along. Take responsibility for yourself. Use your own judgment. Stop buying into political divisions. Don’t be dicks to each other. And for the love of god...stop resorting to violence against each other to enforce arbitrary laws and mandates.

Surely we can do better than fear, panic, ignorant and rash decisions, and physical aggression. If we can’t improve upon that typical and traditional way of life, then maybe we need some stronger viruses to wipe us out, because this kind of life cycle really isn’t worth living.

Loading...

Of all the things an authoritarian government could do, you think it's making people wear masks. Seriously? Why the fuck would they bother?

Loading...
Loading...

One thing we always have to remember - the left-wing and the right-wing, they both belong to the same bird. The predator owl that's preying on us, simple human slaves working for the system.

You speak much but say little.

Consider me well and truly corrected

You're welcome to actually educate yourself, possibly in part using my video productions, articles, and documentaries to do so, but we both know that isn't gonna happen.

Valuable contribution, cheers

Yeah, i pretty much agree. I read through it because of the votes and the comment number but it hardly deserves it imo.

The whole post could be summed up in less then a tweet and it wouldnt even need an explanation.

"Your inconvenience doesnt trump public safety."

There. Theres the post.

I mean, I didn't put the votes there, the voters did. But you obviously know there's more than that.

You can just as easily summarize Homer's Odyssey. 'Some guy struggles after the trojan war with monsters and stuff, comes back and saves the day'

Not many people outside of the US - or inside - have much of a clue about the Bill of Rights, and people often take it for granted that it's some prized treasure never to be questioned. I'm elaborating on this in the post, highlighting the flawed idealism.

The post is also more about the illusion of freedom than it is about the mask wearing itself, which is, in and of itself, a valuable discussion on a political, philosophical, socioeconomic, and other, levels.

Just because you can't see anything to talk about doesn't make it worthless. Like, I can see fuck all to think beyond 3-4 seconds about American football or soccer. Thus, the sports are worth less than a tweet?

'Some guy struggles after the trojan war with monsters and stuff, comes back and saves the day'

Lol. Not really. Every obstacle he faces has a message of its own. Did you just compare a 500 word HIVE post to Homers Oddyssey? 😀
Do you sum up "life" like that as well?

Sum up the life of Isaac Newton.

Well, he was born, then he died.

😃

Look, i have no problems with what ever you want to discuss or you feel youre discussing here. I just find it a bit drab and lacking in substance for a 100$ post on the trending page. Not enough for me to downvote it but just enough for me to state it. :)
On the other hand those characteristics did attract even myself to comment on it thus creating engagement which does have value.

Did you just compare a 500 word HIVE post to Homers Oddyssey?

I mean, I know you know I was comparing in a sense of length being reduced, not comparing quality though personally, I consider this post vastly superior and deeper in every way; I just don't like to publicly announce such truths (insert ;) in case you don't know I'm kidding)

Well, you answer the potential discussion yourself. Influencers worldwide are millionaires by taking selfies of their boobs at various angles. It serves an audience, that audience likes to pay for it.

Fact is, this was briefly one of the most active post I could find on hive so that has to be worth something - and people aren't 'paying' in the way we think about paying, so it's harder to compare 'value' I know you know all this anyway.

I'm not denying that it ain't the highest quality thing ever: I'm actually more frustrated than I am pleased because my previous posts took hours to listen, transcribe/notate, rehearse, perform, record, edit, some parts taking 50, 60 takes and was physically agonizing, and I get, what, 10, 25 bucks? Some of the historical ones I spend hours researching and hold with pride got like 0 comments and under $2.

So sure, I get it. But this is what people relate to far more, I suppose.

Also, I care very little about downvotes on the worst of days so have at it if you feel that way, that's what it's there for

Well you weren't wrong there, a can of worms opened and all the little birdies came out to feast. Freedom of speech, some don't seem to agree, haha.

wrong tag, wrong title, even if the content about the hypocrisy of both fake wings of the fake two party fake political system to give you the fake illusion you have a say in anything when george carlin told you 30 years ago 'you have no choice, you have owners' is actually correct.

we laughed, and then we found out he wasn't joking: we are free range slaves and none are more hopelessly blind to that fact than those who still believe they are free, with apologies to goethe.

if you still haven't figured out the fraud of the federal reserve, and how your every thought, opinion and perception is programmed into you by mass 'education' and 'media' systems then it's time to wake up - you've been living in 1984 your whole life. peace.

Tags and title seem pretty apt to me. Granted, I initially started off with the goal of covering several areas including the science but this works perfectly fine in context of a follow up post.

we are free range slaves

Well, this goes deeper philosophically than you'd probably like. How do we define slavery, and if we get that down, what kind of life exactly is non-slavery? If one is to serve nothing, we perish, be it slaves to an authority of any kind, or a slave to our own primitive desires.

our every thought, opinion and perception is programmed into you by mass 'education' and 'media' systems then it's time to wake up

Who is to say you are any more woke than me or anyone else?

'Who is to say you are any more woke than me or anyone else?'

Because I am acutely aware that 'our every thought, opinion and perception is programmed into us by mass 'education' and 'media' systems' and you are not.

That's mighty arrogant of you lol. You sound like part of a cult, and cults are bred to think alike due to a single authority telling them so. You sound as indoctrinated as anyone else. But sure, your path through life is the real path. Everyone else who thinks their path is the real path is just wrong and uninformed.

Fun fact, there are 4,300 religions around the world. Barely 10% of the world is non-religious.
All religious people know for real that its their religion which is true, the others are simply misguided and have been lead down the wrong path, and the real religion simply neds to go out and make them acutely aware of their mistakes.

Makes you think, eh?

i'm not in a religion, you are (and you don't know it of course.)

masses be like.jpg

If you call 'changing my views based on facts and evidence' a religion, sure thang

there are only 2 religions in the world, God's and babylon. so if you ain't in God's..

never wondered why washington d.c. is shaped like a pentagram, or the monument is 666 feet tall in all, or why the eye of horus is on the dollar bill, if america was supposed to be founded as a christian country?

facts and evidence indeed.

freemason.washington.jpg

Starting to think you're trolling now. but just in case you're being serious, here are some facts for you, easy for you to google:

1 - 'the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion' - Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, 1797. Just because the religion had influence on the nation's moral design, does not mean it was 'supposed to be' Christian. It was specifically meant to be open to all religions. Source

2 - Washington monument is 554 feet tall. Before you throw it at me, the underground foundations are 36 feet 10 inches. You're way off. {Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument)

3 - Geometry lesson; pick any 5 points of a circle and you can make yourself a pentagram. You can also make a regular pentagon or any number of other shapes. To suggest DC is shaped like a pentagram, you would need far more specific elements, which your map fails to do.

For example, one of the points leading to Mount Vernon Square is bunk because this didn't even exist until 1902.

The freemasons that would have been responsible would have necessarily made all lines equal length to symbolize the golden ratio - that's the whole point pretty much - but they're just not.

And finally, the pentagram wasn't even thought of as some special evil symbol until Éliphas Lévi wrote about it in 1896. Before that, the pentagram was a frequently used symbol in most religions and spiritual beliefs as a positive sign.

If you were a real Christian, you would know that Christians used it for the 'five stigmata of Christ' used to ward off demons. In China, the 'wu xing', are the five elements used in traditional medicine, healing, and so forth.

Currently, the pentagram on the Ethiopian flag is used to represent the unity of the people. The one on the Moroccan flag represents love, joy, wisdom, peace, and hope. Source

4 - It's the eye of providence. It's meant to be the eye of God. If it is specifically the God Horus, he wasn't even bad anyway.

Overall, we can ask 'why' about everything, but like all religions you are stamping with a big red stamp, answers that most easily make sense to you and make you feel in control of your surroundings, citing images and youtube videos from people who agree with you already as evidence. Non-religious people, like me, are totally fine with saying 'I don't know' and 'oops, my bad'

Unfortunately, all the above points are excessively easy to find answers to online so that's why I think this was a big troll because you could have simply copy-pasted your answers and within 3-4 seconds had the answers in front of you, as well as in-depth history and explanations. But it was a good troll because it was interesting for me to learn a bit about the freemasons and such.

But since that would be cognitively dissonant, you decide all the answers are false, right?

Hola @mobbs… He elegido tu post para mi iniciativa diaria de reblogear. Este es mi aporte para Hive…
Sigamos trabajando y aportando ideas para crecer en Hive!...
alegria.jpg
Hello @mobbs... I have chosen your post for my daily reblogging initiative. This is my contribution to Hive...
Let's keep working and giving ideas to grow in Hive!

Freedom is good, but during the current pandemic situation, it turned out to be a liability or if you want our own worst enemy. To defeat the virus, we all needed to unite and cooperate with the medical guidelines, but our individualism got on the way and led people to rebel against the guidelines. Because of that, we haven't been able to control the virus and more than 140K folks have died; it is tragic.
Just like race that divides us, freedom can be devastating.

The issue here isn't really freedom. Many of the same people that are arguing they shouldn't be required to mask would also insist you not be allowed to drive a car without a license, drive while intoxicated, or burn a flag. What you're seeing is tribalism. Yes, the claim being made is that mandatory mask rule is too big an infringement on freedom, but for most involved, that's merely an excuse.

There's two main reasons for the problem: 1) there's a relatively small group of people who believe that the coronavirus is a hoax and have somehow managed to convince themselves that requiring people to wear masks is somehow a way of getting them trained to obedience, even though they obey much more intrusive laws all the time and 2) there's a lot more people who simply follow the man they've decided is their leader. This is tribalism. More precisely, it's factionalism, but tribalism is probably a more relatable term, and also has the proper connotations of primitive thinking that usually mark factionalism.

You got it, man!

Wow, this post with your comments is quite illustrative for me. I have a family living in the USA, inclusive, some with them eventually obtained citizenship; and as far as I know, one of the requirements for this was to know the declaration of fundamental rights. Now, I read that they are almost totally dead words, a big false, and a lot of hypocrisy.

I live in Venezuela and the discourse between right and the left doesn't matter to me, I understood a while ago that they are wings of the same bird. In that sense, I think that we are not so different in the background in that particular, only that it is now when the citizens of that great country begin to feel the effects of that rhetoric. Turn to see this mirror and do not fall round in siren songs.

In my opinion, at the bottom of conspiracy theories, there is a lot of misinformation orchestrated and aimed at creating divisions between people to facilitate the imposition of the agenda of the power groups, for whom the political agenda is only one more or half curtain to hide the true goals. There are those who deny and minimize the covid19 until they have a family member and friend dying for it. Meanwhile, we are all driven like sheep.

I don't know who is right, but that strange things are happening, that is undeniable.

they are wings of the same bird.

Precisely, and authoritarian regimes often mock the US and other democracies for it. While they balance on a tightrope, slowly swaying left to right over the years while making tiny tip-toes forward at a snail's pace with people on the sidelines constantly squabbling about which technique is the best to move forward, the dictatorships can plough on ahead regardless of life & liberty.

I would not doubt that many conspiracy theories that are backed by high-budget documentaries on youtube and various influencers have a hidden agenda, one that is quite direct and simple: to divide. Perhaps this is my own conspiratorial belief, though =D

And yes, from outside, the bill of rights is absurd. It only takes a cursory glance to see how much of a failure it is.

Think it will be labeled a communist because there are real people who still defend that the U.S. is the best country in the world when it is not. The U.S. has done much damage to the continent; we have an example of the interference in Venezuela, and how that has affected our country, generating more and more blockades. What do not understand is that if they talk so much about freedom, it cuts off other countries

Yeah freedom ends at the US border, it seems. Though, the US is kind of a mixed bag in this regard for me. Being in the Asia-pacific region, I think they do a lot to benefit the little guys over the Chinese bully. And their words influence other governments so we see the UK and others follow suit and have awareness of human rights abuses raised.

But in other cases, typically where there's a lot of oil, we see a totally different story. It no longer becomes left and right, but where you happen to live and how the US happens to be either infecting or curing the situation according to their own whims and monetary goals.

People value their freedom so much as they can see it being stripped away one amendment at a time. I don't agree with all of them but I do think that governments have overreached. It's the same in my country. You can scratch your arse with your left hand with them having a law to say you should use your right one.

The whole country is tied up in rules and regulations to the point its almost impossible to do anything efficiently. A good government should be like a good referee and only be seen when absolutely nessessary. People already know how to live life and it goes a lot better without external interference just like a match.

Common sense and personal responsibility go a long way. If you feel a mask protects you, wear one. If something offends you, don't watch it. If something is properly wrong, act on it. The government is bloated and ineffective. That is why personal freedom is so important as we are just paying for their corruption with our time and money.

The governments have all overreached to some degree, in the case of the pandemic I can understand it. Everyone is dazed and confused at something that hasn't happened in a century. Balance is all off.

I like the referee analogy. I've always been of this general mindset. The government should be barely noticeable background noise that we're all reminded of daily just to keep in check. Not constantly on the front page of the news, constantly battering us around like a fairground ride.

Though I just want to nitpick at this: If you feel a mask protects you, wear one - mask wearing is to protect others from you. it's like a home-made vaccine.

Sure, vaccines protect you personally from a virus, but far, far more importantly, is that it protects others from contracting the virus from you, thus mitigating spread. Same with masks.

But yeah big government is immensely stressful to watch from afar...and that's coming from me, living in a country where the government controls pretty much literally every aspect of everyone's lives (including how much toilet roll you can use in public restrooms, backed up by state-owned facial recognition software)

Though I just want to nitpick at this: If you feel a mask protects you, wear one - mask wearing is to protect others from you. it's like a home-made vaccine.

This is where we would have to disagree. I feel that it is up to each person to take responsibility for themselves. The same as wearing a seat belt. You don't wear one to protect others. You make the decision to wear one to protect yourself from the actions of others.

Plus wearing a piece of cloth doesn't even equate to a seatbelt. It is more in line with tieing your self to the seat with a piece of rope. It will probably be some help in the event of a crash but it is not meant to save your life and could even do damage.

I work indoors and put up about 15-20k steps every day during a shift. Even in the first day it restricted my breathing so much that I had to go to the warehouse every 30 minutes just to breathe. We had gotten throughout the whole lock down with zero ppe and no cases retail related in the whole country. The majority are travel or party related when traced back.

I have no problem wearing a mask on the bus or anywhere else that I will be on top of somebody else but really dont see the need in spaces where we have room to maneuver. But that is just my opinion.

. It is more in line with tieing your self to the seat with a piece of rope... could even do damage.

The evidence that masks do damage is unanimously proven false, if you're referring to oxygen intake, and its free to test out, or you can buy the gear online for about $10 to try for yourself.

The problem comparing with seatbelts, which I already considered when I used the comparison, is exactly because seatbelts are for you own safety only. However, that doesn't invalidate masks purpose just because it doesn't specifically compare to one regulation. In a way it bolsters it. We all agree as a society that wearing seatbelts is law, nobody tries to overturn that, even though its YOUR safety only, and thus should be YOUR choice.

But how many people are going around insisting that seatbelts are the government's evil way of controlling us?

Masks can better be compared to the speed limit. Yeah, you are saving yourself by driving more slowly but more importantly, you are saving others. In the same way that your freedom to swing your arms around ends at my nose, your freedom to drive around recklessly ends at my family's lives.

Perhaps you have some lung illness or something? I say it because billions of people have been wearing masks in Asia without such complaints, and most people here work ridiculous hours (in China its called 996 (9am-9pm, 6 days a week); wearing lighter masks still reduces the spread rate of a virus even if not as truly effective as a full face container. All we need is to reduce the r0 (spread rate) to the point that growth is no longer exponential. Even linear growth is a positive step.

If you have actual breathing difficulties then its even more reason to rely on others around you to wear masks for the benefit of others.

It's a very slight inconvenience to wear a mask for 99.9% of people, but some other people around have legit breathing difficulties, others have no money or were unable to find masks, and many americans specifically and uniquely think wearing masks is an evil conspiracy to... control... the world?

For all of these people, they are at extreme risk from each other.. Remember, 1 in 100 in the USA and exponentially rising. And recovered patients can contract again. And there are several strains now. Wearing a mask, not touching stuff outside, social distancing, combined, is a mighty vaccine, without the need to inject microchips through mosquitoes with 5G to control your motor functions.

And vaccines are for the same purpose: To prevent others getting it from you.

Freedom being free is often being abused. Therefore there should be limitations. Limitation should be calibrated just in the middle of strict and loose. You deviate to the stricter side will cause a problem and so when you deviate to the looser side. It will be hard especially to the countries with inhabitants that have a big variation in culture.

Yep, the tightrope walk. It just so happens that the US is very heavily leaning to one side on this issue, moreso than any other nation, and are suffering badly for it. In every day normal life, it makes the US a great place to be, but it fails miserably here in these once-in-a-lifetime events.

The real freedom is belong to someone who understand how this world actually work. The real freedom is belong to someone who free his mind from comparing one to another. The real freedom is belong to someone who can not be bond. The real freedom is belong to someone who always look inside himself. The real freedom is belong to someone who love to smile in this world madnessy..!!

Cheers to that =)

I believe that no real freedom in this world. What I said in my comment is extremely hard to do when we have to witness so many unacceptable things happen around us. The ruler, both right or left had been identified as the "SHIT" for civilization since long time ago. Hypocracy in the freedom that you mentioning above, I think not only in your country, it will be long lasting when the goverment keep "Playing Politic" as the maintenance of their power of authority. People said, "In politics you must back up your words with weapon." No wonder Nuclear is created by superpower countries either as the "toy" that use to support the aim to be the world ruler or as the self-defence from the invaders. What I'm trying to say is, The "Right" rulers free their people rumbling debating their own truth, but the real truth is what coming from the ruler. Hiding behind the word of "National Stability" is the way to legitimate the "Shut down" action againts protesters. Then the "Left" rulers will "Gangbang" every "hole" in attempting way of making their people kneel down all the time.

Hiding behind the word of "National Stability"

I don't like to compare, but these kind of words are very typical strategic words used in dictatorships The very building block of a dictator is to create a threat from nothing, then promise everyone safety if only they sacrifice their freedoms and obey to me in return.

It's the primary narrative of all authoritarian regimes

Gothchaa..:) I go a long with you..

Freedom has only ever meant 'free to do what I want' to the right. They are selfish sociopaths. Conservatism should be a fucking mental disorder.

I should add, the left has a slightly different view of 'freedom'. The left focuses more on freedom 'from', whereas the right focuses more on the freedom 'to'. Different perspectives, neither the only way to do it.

Quite a clear description of the two, but yes both have been warped to madness at this point

I think that this post nicely illustrates how the use of a term like “conspiracy theorist” can be used to not only keep people separated but to completely control a narrative. To keep people from even listening to each other and to hide information in plain sight.

For instance I find that though you seem to see the truth movement as some kind of insane machination of paranoid illiterates, you actually seem to agree with or be aware of on some level most of the tenets of the the real truth movement ie, the left right paradigm, authoritarianism, the lack of what should be basic human rights despite the words on paper, the misdirection by people that in the truth community are often referred to as “gatekeepers”. People with loud voices and often Extremist/militant views that self identify as “conspiracy theorists” who, whether knowingly or unknowingly, deflect any rational minded people who may venture near from looking any more closely into any kind of journalism that doesn’t tow the (2) party line. (Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh) They often use the same tricks that the corporate owned media does such as using emotion to misdirect and enthrall (mostly fear).

If you’re interested in hearing some of these alternative viewpoints from someone who rarely if ever talks about guns or gun laws (probably doesn’t own one in fact), who sites his sources extensively and elaborates his points clearly and intelligently (although often a bit cynically), I would recommend James Corbet @corbettreport or corbettreport.com.

As any rational human he doesn’t claim to have all the answers, but he does do extensive research and though what he says may shock or anger you, I invite you to keep an open mind. The ability to see an issue from multiple perspectives without being overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance is a very important skill for the rational pursuit of truth. (Also he is a westerner who has settled in Japan so you may find you have similar experiences)

Anyway I’m glad you made this post. It was enlightening for me and I think has really made a bit of progress in bridging the gap between us “nutcases” and you “normies” ;)

As a side note, the view of america being violently divided by this left right dichotomy is something I come across a lot having spent the majority of the last five years traveling europe and asia. While there is a grain of truth here, (the media influences people in every country) This is mostly just another way that the media sensationalizes and separates.

Like most people everywhere, most americans are simply selfish and materialistic. Their opinions mostly come from a screen and they mostly don't care enough about anything that doesn't directly affect them, their families or their pockets to say or do anything about it. These people don't make the news and they don't make a fuss. In other words they're just regular people.

Agree with the hype of media. Twitter for example, there's about 40 million active users in the US. That's a little over 10% of the US. Only some of them are politically involved. Even if its as much as half, that leaves 95% uninvolved in all this sensationalism that spreads around the globe.

Quite a perspective, eh? Most people just want to get back to work

I've debunked corbett's stuff before, most recently his attempt at claiming Bill Gates is evil and trying to spread mosquitoes with mind-controlling vaccines around the world. He doesn't directly say that because like you say he's a little more careful, but the viewers easily extrapolate to such a conclusion and spread this far and wide.

Though I respect him for trying hard and providing all sources in sometimes huge lists, I still find he is misdirected. Sifting truth from 'truth' is a lifelong journey and I genuinely believe this should be some kind of formal curriculum in school, a fight against indoctrination from an early age.

For me, I started digging in when I was about 20 when things started to sound vague and biased and I've been refining those skills ever since, and it's really tricky. Sometimes I have to learn a bunch of scientific lingo just to properly understand a research paper that turns out to be nothing related to what I was talking about. Sometimes I set out to prove a point and write about it, only to find I was wrong, and thus, don't write about it.

(Survivorship bias in this scenario is another topic entirely)

And, if you take the wrong direction in years of refining skills, it's pretty hard or impossible to turn back. Corbett and I presumably forked off in our own directions many years ago but possibly went down the same general path of truth or 'truth' finding.

And hey, I use nutcase/nutjob in a rather light-hearted tone, but calling me a normie is outright offensive and now I'm going to find your twitter and get you fired for something a decade ago.

It’s easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don’t believe Corbett has ever implied that mosquitoes will be used to vaccinate us though I could be wrong. sometimes it can be beneficial to point out connections that may turn out to be unrelated. It can encourage more people to take up the thread and do the research, thus either expanding on or debunking that idea. Dyor is not just a sound investment advice and the truth community is open source and decentralized.

If you take any researcher, scientist etc who is doing groundbreaking work and put everything they say to the microscope test you are bound to find inconsistencies and mistakes. It takes a brave human to do that work while constantly under the microscope and still follow any lead that seems promising. I believe if someone were to judge everything you have ever said or written on “that one thing they debunked once” you would find that a bit ridiculous.

I tried twitter once. Like most social media I found there to be too many twits ;)

I have never read so many fallacies in a publication, so grabbing by the hair, with distorted plating and scaled arguments.

Care to elucidate, or just gonna throw that at me and walk away?

It has many flaws, life can go away in arguing with you, I would only recommend that you start reading, starting with Ayn Rand, I studied a science career; among other things. never do.

Not much of a fan of discussion & debate, eh? Not sure why you commented at all, in that case

I am an American; I have always loved the spitfire in our hearts. I loved that underdog spirit — how we beat the British, against all odds. And I am watching my country, disintegrate. All your points are dead on. Our constitution is dead, or at least on its last 2 legs. We cannot have tanks, that would be ridiculous. What even are rights? They have to end somewhere. I feel like my childhood utopia of what I believed America was died. And I am grieving the loss of my mother land. My family generation has been on these soils since the revolution. It is very sad to wake up and understand — American isn’t “the best”.

I don't remember when America ever was the best, to be honest. It was the best in the ways that the American people specifically valued 'good': military power, wealth, freedom. But ants would consider their colony far superior for their own reasons, as do Saudi's think about their religious practices.

Being the best means very little, really. You should just aim for 'surrounding myself with happiness' or some shit like that lol

But yeah I feel you. I've been away from the UK for 10 years and I've been watching from afar as it slowly crumbles into an ever more spineless dried fish of a nation... sigh

I don't remember when America ever was the best, to be honest.

I mean that exactly the point. From an outsiders view you’d have no idea the propaganda that happened since the time I was a kid. Whether or not it was true; I was a child, I believed it. It’s not a fair and balanced world view, and it was my childhood. It very interesting growing up and out of ideas forced upon a person.

Imagine what its like growing up in certain other patriotic nations...

That's how wars begin; agreed.

The right cares about THEIR freedoms. They are pretty consistent about not wanting anyone else to have freedoms, especially if they aren’t white.

I don't tend to lump all the right into the racist basket; left are just as racist in their own ways, if we want to keep segmenting into left/right paradigm. But yeah freedom is contingent on the limits of how people feel about it... quite whimsical

Obviously, the world isn’t black and white, which makes our left/right 2 party system all the more disfunctional. But if you could get an honest assessment of racial views of say Tucker Carlson fans vs John Oliver fans, you are definitely see results skewed in two different directions. The race thing was mostly just a cheeky afterthought though. My main point was the conservative tendency to think of “freedoms” in terms of “rules for thee but not for me.

Yeah I suppose that's true overall. Somebody described it as the left views freedom as 'freedom from', whereas the right see it as 'freedom to'. I think that's a good summation. Honestly, extremes from each aside, I'm not sure which is better. Typically, a balance.

I really enjoyed this piece, I am not one who typically reads these type of posts but I do like your candor. I have to say, my somewhat limited on the ground experience of the "American Dream" has led me to the conclusions you have also come to. The right to bear arms for example was brought about when it took 30 seconds to reload, not 30 seconds to 1/2 empty a clip of 400 rounds!

Butttttttt..... Freedom!

One of the popular thought experiments is to raise the founding fathers from the dead, give them a quick update on guns and tech, and see how they feel about the bill then. Somehow I feel they would no longer stand by it!

Wholeheartedly agree with you there. Many of the founding principles wouldn't stand at all.

I still think Trump is a very good president. Funny but good. His loyalty is with Christians

I agree with him on a selection of issues -primarily the China issues for obvious reasons (which are generally also unanimously bilateral), but by far disagree with more. The pandemic has exposed how much of an anti-science, generally confused man he is though. Doing a presidency based on your gut can lead to some results, but in the end I foresee crashing and burning.

Then again, I disagree with a whole ton from the other side, too. There really needs to be a paradigm shift in my, and many peoples, opinion

So true hey. Sometimes both presidents is a bit reckless with their decisions.

If you want to change, design a better system, or help someone who is already working on one!

I think for most of us its easier to just whine =) Nobody knows how to change such a large, established system. How could you? It's never happened before. Even in the greatest of wars, these are typically two militarised forces, not your average dissatisfied salespeople and farmers.

It's a tough call and as gross as it might feel to some, incrementalism is probably the way to go

Loading...

I promise you, we're not all like this.

Many Americans don't buy into the Red vs Blue bullshit these people who want to control our country spread. I define myself as a "Classical Liberal". I believe in individual freedom above all else. People like myself completely agree with statements like "Your right to swing your arms ends at my nose"

I don't agree that the government should be "punishing" people per say for not wearing masks unless they're known to carry the virus, which I understand is impossible to judge in the moment. On the other side of that token, I wear a mask everywhere. Not because my government told me to, but because it's the moral thing to do right now simply due to not knowing who has it.

People like myself understand that the police are given WAY too much money, and become so militarized that their view of their job is often skewed. The often rash killing of American citizens by those who swore an oath to protect us has been ridiculous for quite some time, but when it comes to outright abolishing police? It's just not feasible if you don't want roving bands of marauders.

Again, I advocate for personal freedom. For everyone. No human is any better than the next. No one is inherently bad or good, and no one has the right to force another to act. Personally, I would love to see a borderline anarchy, but alas, the majority of people are too stupid, weak, and as you said, hypocritical, to want true freedom.

I don't agree that the government should be "punishing" people per say for not wearing masks

Totally agree but this just highlights the inherent flaw built into the system; education. Kids were never taught, for generations, how to think properly: critically, skeptically, even aginst the teachers teaching them how to think. So without punishment - which isn't an option - the only results are extremely dire and there's no fix quicker than multiple generations.

As mentioned in another comment, in Asia, people just inherently understand that wearing masks is a societal good, and working together will help to fight this thing off. Freedom isn't even relevant, since they can still exercise their every day freedoms, just with a mask. Like if it's cold, you wear gloves.

It's quite magical how freedom came into the debate in the US to begin with. If it hadn't maybe the whole use of threats and force wouldn't have even been considered, because like here in Asia, everyone would have just done the common sense things.

when it comes to outright abolishing police

I have seen some fringe idiots actually suggesting abolishing the police - such as that ridiculous autonomous zone - but the movement as far as I can tell is largely misunderstood in that they do literally just mean reduce the funding of the police in order to put that money elsewhere where its more valuable for the health of the community, preventing crimes before police are even necessary. Even paedophiles are found to seek help when the help is available for them, before they even commit the crimes their desires force on them.

borderline anarchy

Honestly, I don't think the ones who even want full anarchy are actually capable of it in practice. I get that it can work in small groups or tribes, but in the modern world it just ain't happening - but that's a debate for another day!

Too many variables. The more people you involve in anything, the more likely it is to fail.

I like the rationality behind your writing. You are a clear thinker and I respect that. arguments need passion on both sides. debate is good

Posted using dapplr

I welcome debate, and the best way to do that is to say something controversial. This one turned out to be largely agreed with though, surprisingly

I was surprised too, my first foray into this platform was on the trending page and I saw a lot of non mainstream posts which had little interaction and where there was it was largely agreement.

It was refreshing to see this, a rebuttal if you will, being met with a LOT of engagement and that being from the saner side of the yard.

We cannot always agree on everything and the world would be homogenous place if we did but dangerous mistruths do have to be countered.

I applaud your post

Congratulations @mobbs! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Your post got the highest payout of the day

You can view your badges on your board And compare to others on the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!

Considering the whole history of the United States, they are certainly an extremely interesting terrain to discuss conspiracies and freedom.