The @sbdpotato beneficiary experiment
There were ongoing discussions today about the issue which I know a lot of people are getting annoyed by and posting about lately, @sbdpotato and @burnposts filling up trending. Instead of front-ends shadowbanning these accounts and since both of them are striving to fix & maintain the peg thus are important the discussion lead to instead attempt a new experiment, if proven successful it would make the former activities obsolete and bring that stake back into curating authors instead leading to a much cleaner trending page.
That was a long sentence! Let me try to explain it better.
If authors creating posts start adding @sbdpotato as beneficiary (10-20%) and curators would increase the votes cast on these to make up for the beneficiary cut it would replace the need of @sbdpotato completely and could even increase the amount sent to it if done right and with curators co-operating.
Effective immediately, we at @ocd will be incentivizing authors to place @sbdpotato as beneficiary with our curation.
We recently announced our new hive community in this post where we focus our curation and incentivize those authors sharing their posts outside of Steem through the #posh initiative. At the same time we are voting on posts with the @ocdb account late to incentivize more stake going towards curation and those curating it earlier receiving more curation rewards.
On top of that we will now also be looking for posts that send their beneficiary to @sbdpotato. If this experiment goes well and we see an increase in rewards being sent to it, @smooth will also consider adding towards curation instead of continuing the burnposts with authors sending beneficiaries to both @sbdpotato and @burnpost/@null.
We hope other curation projects and big accounts will give this experiment a try and make the above mention accounts obsolete while still being allocated steem from the rewards pool to assist the ecosystem.
For those wanting to give this a try by posting onto our community, here's a quick how to.
Visit beta.steemit.com and login with your credentials.
Go to our community: https://beta.steemit.com/trending/hive-174578
Click on "new post" and before posting click on "advanced settings" and place a beneficiary to @sbdpotato.
The only rule of our community is that the content is original and yours. If you decide to share it onto Twitter, please add a link to the tweet in a comment and we will take it into consideration when curating your post on top of the beneficiary sent to @sbdpotato.
Bear in mind we'll be curating the posts a bit late to give other curators time to front-run us.
Thanks for reading and let's see how this experiment goes!
Credit for the idea to @thecryptodrive, @smooth and @transisto (I think, I came in late to the conversation)
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 0/4 - need recharge?)
That is great idea @acidyo, additing @sbdpotato as beneficially is really going help our curation rewards. I've been using @null and @likwid & they have really good. Thanks for this updates, I will also try setting @sbdpotato as my beneficially. I also tried @ocdb beta yesterday by subscribing and postting my promotional post, I found everything easy. Thanks for your daily support for us, I'm @oppongk.
I will try to remember to do this. Perhaps by removing some of the visibility, it won't make other users who don't get what is happening feel like some random waste of the pool is happening.
Finally someone with a solution other than crying about it! I’ll be sure to set beneficiaries going forward
I don't think people were "crying" about it. I think they were bringing up an issue that needed to be addressed. Many of the people that spoke up either have very little influence on the site or have little technical knowledge. Either way they saw something was wrong and spoke their mind. What if nobody "cried" as you say? We wouldn't be commenting on this post by @acidyo and making the situation better. And what did you do? Just stick your head in the sand and now get rewarded for making a silly comment? I hope you burn what you earn for your comment.
Well everyone sees the responses to the issue differently! I mean I personally never use the trending page so it doesn’t really affect my use of the site!
I’ve never powered down or sent a single steem from the platform why should I burn it? It’s mine to use, to reward and to delegate!
Have a great day in your bubble
Gosh someone woke up on the wrong side of the keyboard today that they feel the need to take out their frustration on a random person on the internet
Take it however you'd like. However,you were the one misrepresenting people as "crying" about the burnposts. I was clarifying my opinion of the "criers". Then you go on to justify your non action due to you not using the trending page. So if you don't see it, it's not a problem? You seem like a nice enough person and a very good STEEM member. I sleep very well and don't wake up to put people down. I just didn't like your silly comment so I said something perhaps to give you another point of view. I will leave it there. You may have the last word and I always keep an open mind to hear others views and opinions. But on this point, I think people had the right to speak up and say something and it was not crying. Not everyone has the influence or technical understanding to fix these problems so all they have is their voice. These opinions are not meant to hurt you or bring you down so please do not be sensitive or feel I am taking frustration out on you because that is not at all the motive behind me taking time to speak my mind.
Chill out, lol. There's been discussions about this between the people mentioned at the end of the post for a long time now even before the posts started coming in about it by many. The comments that ended up trending were the catalyst to bring it up I believe.
One thing that's a problem here I believe is that these posts would not be as much of an eye sore if curators from other big projects would stop curating based on what has already been voted as to not reward "competing" projects for getting there first. In a way it's great that they are spreading their votes around but I think many are skipping voting on good quality posts that would deserve trending because they believe they'll earn more CR if they manage to front-run some posts with lower rewards causing almost no good quality posts to hit trending.
That's what we are attempting to change now in our hive by encouraging other curators to front-run us and sacrificing that possible higher CR return for the sake of rewarding great posts more and getting them that trending slot.
I'm all good, just can't stand people that misrepresent situations. Thanks for all you do and for taking action as usual to improve the ecosystem. Many of us "criers" appreciate you.
It's a useless project @acidyo. The only solution is to kill it.
It wont have the desired effect, and don't bring real value to the system.
The burn post project has been happening for more than 2 years... What are the results?
It is good to see that initiatives are being taken to clean up the ecosystem.
At first, it seemed like a good idea to create these accounts and cancel the rewards obtained, plus it was a good incentive to receive curing rewards.
Now, because it's specifically targeted to the authors, I think it will be more effective. Knowing that it is necessary to somehow encourage the good authors who still trust Steem.
Ill start adding @burnpost and @sbdpotato as beneficiaries if theyre willing to stay off the trending page. Ill add them but ill still keep on downvoting until they do leave
please don't. they won't achieve anything in the end.
If they leave the trending and promise to curate with the SP thats going into these shitposts thats good enough for me. The burn is pointless but if theyle give out more votes to deserving creators and good content thats a win in my book.
There is really no one who can promise this. The voters supporting both projects are diverse Steem stakeholders who are expressing their view that the projects are a better use of rewards funds than a lot of other posts.
When it was mostly just a few whales and old timers supporting burnpost the payouts were $20 or less (at or near the current STEEM price), and while technically on Trending, it wasn't on the first few pages (I helped with this by voting on day 3, which I still do, actually day 4 now), but once the payouts increased to $50 or more, that's from a lot of different voters.
Then why the support for this proposal acid made?
If youll keep on posting on the burnpost account then theres no point for us that dislike you trending so much with this to give beneficiaries.
My question is:
If you get enough beneficiaries will you stop? How much do you need to stop?
I happy to see anyone try things. We'll see how it works out.
I personally do not contribute to the posts or comments being on trending at all because I vote for them after 3-5 days, and have IIRC done this sort of late voting for the entire two year history of @burnpost, but certainly for at least months (which costs me in curation rewards, but I've been willing to accept that).
Ok then SBDpotato and null as beneficary going forward on my posts :)
Steem would be absolutely over powered if SBD was a proper stablecoin like DAI or something.
This doesn't make any sense, it was stable for a long time, made 0 difference
Its been years and I can tell you this shit was never stable. Only the slight illusion of stability for short times.
Nope. Won't work. Just as these "experiments" don't work.
I don't know if you read any of my comments on the other posts, but I will try to summarize to summarize them here:
Anyway, this is one of the huge problems around here: most of the people with big stakes don't care about increasing the value of the system, but increasing their own ROI.
And most of them lack basic economic/market knowledge, so we have these shitty useless projects coming around.
You know what could bring real value (and bring the price up)? Support to projects like @utopian-io, killed by the price drop, but the big whales (not all) didn't gave a shit when it died.
This exactly what they're doing. They are buying the SBD on internal market and there are bots that make sure that the SBD price on internal market and other exchanges is the same (because there is profit to be made if price is not the same). Then they are "burning" the SBD by converting it to STEEM, those converted SBDs will never hit exchanges again.
The only SBDs printed are going to @steem.dao and small part of it to few project creators.
Basically what @sbdpotato is doing is limiting the supply of SBDs while creating constant demand for it.
Throwing money to projects that are not self-sustainable won't make them sustainable. Look at steem monsters, they don't need any donations and the steem price have no effect on their success.
Yeah, but why not do it with their own funds if this is what they want? And why their argument is that buyin it in one swoop won't work, but their way of buying slowly will? It's pure bullshit.
They are doing exactly this, but are using reward funds, and pledging for SPS funds to do this.
My whole point is that it is fucking useless. No matter if the price increase happens instantly or over a long period, the price will correct back to where it was, and everything won't be anything more than a really elaborate long term pump and dump scheme, and SBD will still be what it is today: a useless token.
Who do you think will benefit from this? Us, mere minnows that have less than 1k STEEM, or those with millions of steem that can generate hundreds of SBD when the debt ratio goes down again? What do you think it will happen with these SBD generated by these whales when the price go up again?
Then what? repeat the pump and dump process until eternity? It's pure bullshit, and it doesn't add anything of value to the ecosystem.
That makes no fucking sense. How do you think Steem Monsters project was funded? Do you think Aggroed Brought in his own money to the table or he used his rewards as author/witness plus Steemit.inc delegation?
Yes, it's cool that Steem Monsters is still working (i don't play it, but i recognize it as a good project), but this point of Steem it should be about projects that add value (Yes, Steem monsters add value, but this is not the point).
Or you think that everything that is "self-sustainable" around here is adding value?
Or how many of these "self-sustainable" projects are being funded by the ninja-mined stake that is still having a big influence on the blockchain?
So, we add value to the system pledging for funds for a theorical "experiment" that you can prove that it won't work just using basic economics, or actually creating projects that bring true value?
Well, I don't blame them for not wanting to loose their own money.
My point was that steem monsters don't need continuous support / donations to operate (I thought that's what to mean for utopian).
Overall cool comment, I wish I had this much energy this time of year :D
Can't blame anyone for not wanting to lose the money, but some are guilty of hipocrisy.
I am can't say exactly what happened for utopian to shut down, because I wasn't active here at the time. But I can say that it probably started when stinc retracted it's delegation.
But remember clearly that be independent from delegations/donations was part of @elear plans.
But one think I can say for sure: a doubt any of the whales that say that they want steemit to thrive looked after him to help find a way for @utopian-io not go down the drain.
That is value thrown in the garbage.
Because it has a cost that results in a benefit to Steem and not to a privately owned business like Steem Monsters.
Since the benefit is to the platform, it makes perfect sense to use platform/community funds (aka reward pool and/or SPS) to pay for it.
The argument is not about buying it slowly vs buying it quickly, it is buying it repeatedly vs. once.
65k STEEM is not enough to increase SBD to $1 and keep it there. In order to get it to $1 will require a lot more than 65k STEEM worth of SBD to be bought and destroyed (already about 50000 STEEM worth has been bought and the task does not appear to be close to complete). The faster you try to do this, the more it costs due to slippage (you pay more STEEM for the SBD than you get back from converting it), so less STEEM is available on the next cycle and the process slows down overall (less SBD is bought and removed from circulation over time).
"Since the benefit is to the platform(...)"
Please, elaborate that. How is an sbd increase in price be beneficial for the platform as a whole, and not only to this that have enough influence to generate big amounts of sbd at once?
Sbd will still be useless, and have no value.
Again, all this thing is busted mostly because this don't add value to the network. Only have a virtual effect on price.
In the end, doenst matter if this succeed or not (spoiler alert: It won't succeed), sbd will still be useless and have no value.
Again, and again, since I don't know how this is so hard to understand: to increase the price, increase the value. Create projects that make sbd demand be real.
"it is buying it repeatedly vs. once"
Well, just do it again next month. 65 steem is pennies to all witness + whales combined.
"65k STEEM is not enough to increase SBD to $1 and keep it there."
Indeed. Just add 65k more and create a huge buy order at 1 usd price. Easy.
Burn the sbd bought both ways, there.... You reduced around 10% of the supply.
Whatfukinever. No matter Wich way, it's just a pump n dump style of market manipulation. And guess how long people keep their attention on project that manipulate the markets? I will answer for you: not much, until they realize their gain and move on to the next asset.
It doesn't add any fukin value to the network.
A stable value coin has clear value as I explained elsewhere. This is why SBD is used in SPS, because of real world experience trying to run budgets with volatile tokens. It doesn't work. SBD is a clear advantage and a clear value add.
This is circular. More utility and more usage comes from having it maintain a value. It it doesn't already have and maintain a stable value, then it is useless to any project.
No one is going to create a project to create value for SBD in order to restore or strengthen the peg. It has to happen in the other order.
That isn't even close to 10% of the supply. Your math is goofy.
Stable value tokens have their value 'manipulated' by design. In every case it is with some combination of algorithmic agents as well as people responding to incentives. That's what is happening here.
The real problem is that it took so long for anyone to do something, allowing the problem to fester and grow in magnitude (so not it is not so easy to fix, but will take time).
Except that you can't. You have done nothing but post a lot of pure nonsense like the claim that wasting a bunch of money buying up SBD to $1 once would somehow cause it to retain value, when it clearly won't.
But isn't wasting a lot of money buying sbd exactly what they are trying to do here?
Economics 101:
Price is the result of the relation of supply vs demand.
You are creating demand, but fake demand. Unsustainable demand.
Demand come the there is a need for something. Why the fuck do we do with sbd? Nothing.
It doesn't fukin matter how may sbd you buy on any market. It is not real demand. Price will keep crawling back down because THERE IS NO FUKIN REAL DEMAND.
Maybe writing in caps will help this very basic economic concept to go through these hard heads....
And it is clearly wrong. There is SOME demand. I can point to people who have bought large amounts of SBD, even at $1 or higher (or course this is true because every trade has a buyer, and it has traded a lot at $1 or higher).
The price is a balance between supply and demand as you say. If there were NO demand, then the price of SBD literally would be zero. There is SOME demand, so supply has to be reduced to meet it.
When? 2017-18? when the hype about blockchains was at its peak and everyone was buying any cripto that increased price? When haejin was "predicting" that SBD would reach $100 USD?
That is not real demand my friend. It is speculative demand.
Real demand is when people look for an asset because they will have some actual use for it.
Speculative demand is fake demand. People are buying something just because for some reason or another, they believe they will be able to sell it for a higher price.
The price isn't zero yet because there is still speculative demand, mostly related to STEEM, that have some use (power over the Steem Blockchain).
Tell me one thing you can do with SBD besides buy and hope that the price will go up so you can sell with a profit.... Just one...
All throughout Steem's history. There have always been buyers. There have always been people with SBD sitting in their wallets because they want some stability of value.
Yes, and wanting value stability without needing to move off the platform to get it is real use.
Simple. Hold it so that the volatility of your holdings ON THE PLATFORM are reduced (not have to deal with exchanges, fees, KYC paperwork, etc.)
None of what I described above is speculative demand.
The primary value of SBD is that its value is a lot less volatile than STEEM (even in its current not-quite-working-perfectly form, but the more that can be improved, the more value it will have).
this is the only thing you wrote on this whole discussion that make sense.
And BTW, all the above you mentioned are speculative. It's all based on expectation of what MIGHT happen on the future. This is the exact definition of speculation.
This come from the system and only increase supply. What influence the SPS results is STEEM. Why buy SBD when i can get STEEM directly and power up my account to have influence over the SPS result?
Bullshit. People who still hold SBD is only for speculative reasons, hoping it will one day go back to 1 USD. Today, STEEM is the only token in the blockchain that is useful.
Yes, there is potential, but instead of looking for ways to make this potential become true, what we see here is just a stupid market manipulation. But you know, look for real ideas and spend time and money to make them thrive isn't as easy and as a quick market manipulation.
Ok, so, here is something interesting for you to think, and if you want a confirmation, just go back to STEEM whitepaper written by Dan Larimer.
SBD isn't supposed to be pegged to 1 USD. 1 SDB is designed to try to have the closest value of 1 USD worth of STEEM.
It isn't the same thing. So, instead of trying to force a non-existent peg, why not focus the discussion/work how to make SBD actually useful?
While going trough these discussion just found a simple example that makes way more sense than the potato nonsense: @bank.sbd
Haven't gone through yet on how it works, but this kind of idea is way more effective. This guy created an actual reason to buy SBD.
SBD must be treated as any other currency in the world: It have a price when paired with another currency, but there is no peg between currencies.
SBD price/value is linked to STEEM, not USD.
Like i said somewhere else, this is a innefective solution for a non-existent problem.
There have always been people holding SBD, even when it was $1.
You seem to deny that people value stability of value, which absurd.
I'm not even sure what that means, but on page 5 of the white paper I see this:
That's what this is all about. Making it (more) useful by making its value (more) stable.
See, this thing you created, @bank.sbd makes way more sense.
You are actually creating something useful to be done with SBD. I will check it out later when i have more time.
Thanks :)
Sbd helps to avoid paying 80 steem for a 10sbd purchase and the price of steem going to a dollar and you having paid 80 dollars for a ten dollar widget.
I don't mind spendng sbd in the homesteaders coop because it is designed to be one dollar, whereas steem could moon.
Awesome idea :)
My unpaid voting bot (voting w/ @remlaps1, @cub1, etc...) has been set for several months to increase the voting percentage for posts that have @null beneficiary settings. I'll do the same for @sbdpotato and @burnpost later today.
Sweet. I am gonna be a potato now.
I'm glad that a compromise was reached. I support the project but don't think it should be on the front page. I'll give the project a shot on #themorningbowl
morningbowl is a great STEEM show! Can you still get stoned or do you have a too high tolerance?
Please follow me
I read this a little late. I'll definitely be doing this in my upcoming publications Although I'm still not used to the new Steemit, it'll be worth a try.
Oh my goodness!
Thanks for this post.
Shed light in a simple way.
Saved in my bookmarks bar.
Stay great!
I was wondering what sbdpotato was all about. Will add the beneficiaries to upcoming posts.