Ask The Hive: Is 8.31% a good yearly return on investment?
I've been delegating to @curangel for around 9 months now. This post contains a summary of returns and a question for you.
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Pushing 'get paid to blog' is seemingly frowned upon when advertising Hive, but I do think there is a place for promoting the investment return when being paid to be entertained.
If you don't have much time for entertainment, you can always loan out your HP to a team seeking new authors and interesting posts, but how much can you earn?
The table below shows the amount I have delegated to @curangel, how long for, the HIVE (STEEM) earned, and the annual APR. The APR is calculated by :
Total Hive received / days delegated * 365 days / delegation amount
HP | Days Delegated | Total HIVE | APR |
---|---|---|---|
1000 | 7 | 1.697 | 8.85% |
1250 | 18 | 5.18 | 8.40% |
1500 | 15 | 5.018 | 8.14% |
2000 | 9 | 3.697 | 7.50% |
2500 | 94 | 49.359 | 7.67% |
3000 | 120 | 86.033 | 8.72% |
7400 | 4 | 7.336 | 8.93% |
Total/Avg | 267 | 158.32 | 8.31% |
8.31% is a lazy calcluated average, and perhaps (with the 120 day delegation at 8.72% APR) the average should be a little higher overall.
Looking at my own consumer rewards APR, hivestats.io has this around 4.5% higher, but a fair % of the votes are automated and fixed over 130 of so accounts.
https://hivestats.io/@abh12345 by https://leofinance.io/
While it is nice to support people who have stuck around and are here for the long run, I do think it is key to support newer accounts producing likable content.
Is the 4.5% difference bearable, knowing that your HP is going to new blood - which we so desperately need?
Is 8.31% APR a decent return, on any investment?
Cheers
Asher
Yes indeed it is. When you look at the returns offered right now by traditional investment which tend not to even be in whole figures no more!!
I have a Barclays savings account and i think the APR is 0.25%, what the feck is that!?
The fiat economy on its knees, that's what that is!
Posted Using LeoFinance
Yeah, mines was 0.25 and they sent me a letter saying it was going to 0.1, I'm like, fuck off!!
And that's still good. Negative interest is a reality in several first world countries already.
We touched it briefly here for a while about 9 or 10 years ago I think it was here. I remember it read the past thing when I started earning on my student loan debt
It is essentially negative... same here across the pond.
My point is .25% or .1% what's the difference? We are essentially paying the banks to keep our money.
Yeah, it's tiny and I don't really trust them to take care of what they have. They find so many ways to gouge the customer
Yeah, it's tiny and I don't really trust them to take care of what they have. They find so many ways to give the customer
We had a discussion in discord about this delegation. They said it's better to give upvotes rather than sharing rewards everyday. But upvote of course the post that it's not a shitpost.
We decided to do like that in the future so we're not tolerating the money making here. For others especially those investors not acceptable but I think it's not that bad offer right? To make sure people keeo on posting quality content.
By the way I'm talking about iur community @hiveph in Philippines because we're just building. Just have an small amount hp for now. lol
I think if you are working on a community/account then yes, a different approach is probably better.
The delegation for me is to support any/all accounts I would likely not see/visit. With the community you likely have a list of members and can coordinate votes for them at present.
I think it is a little bit low... Did you calculate what is the average APR of curangel?
Low for Hive, or in general? It might be lowish for Hive, but i'd not visit most of these accounts so I'm happy to lose out a little.
I'm sure I've seen the APR for curangel somewhere but couldn't find it - might as well do my own APR though eh? :)
Mine's 16% per hivestats tool just by trailing @curie but it will change soon now that I have shared it. :D
I have never tried trailing curangel/ocd/b because sometimes I see it voting to some higher pending payout posts but with my observation, sometimes, you still have the advantage of getting that decent consumer rewards if you have more HP than others voting early or later.
hmm, nice! :)
Starts trailing @curie
I know the vote order is important, but I'm OK with it - I might be less keen as a smaller account, thinking 'I'm the one who needs the votes here!?'
Just trailing curie, that's pretty good going!
Posted Using LeoFinance
Wow, this seems to be a good option, do you match the percentage?
I'll take it :)
Beats your money sitting in a 3 year CD.
Posted Using LeoFinance
Yep, and you can always interact with the people who are earning you this ROI :)
A win-win IMO.
Posted Using LeoFinance
I'm about to hit 500 hive power soon and I might delegate 200 when I can. I am trying to earn more though and grow in the community. I think it's a okay investment for what you got.
I think as a smaller account it's worth keeping your HP.
If you can get enough to appear in the top 20 voters list, this is good advertising for your account - perhaps better than a delegation.
I made a simple calculation for the best curation benefit this last should be the upvote you give multiple 3 times in the pay out that is the best, if we take in the consideration that you have to support newbies with quality content the best average is multiple in 2.5 times to achieve that we are all know someone who Upvote after 4 min from the post posted not like who's upvote after 1h or more earlier you are best curation you got so the best you can get with all that is how much you vote with multiple 2.25 times or 2 sometimes till 1.25, delegating is good if the delegated gives you a price in that range with taking in consideration the goal of this delegated if he will supporting the same goal you want to support with your HP, i calculated your score in my method the result is about 2.7 so far on the right way o think.
I get 6% on my BTC. In terms of other crypto’s and especially the traditional finance space, 8.31 would be considered a high APY. Especially if you believe the underlying asset will at least stay at the same price (if not appreciate).
In terms of hive, 8.31 is probably a bit low but like you said — another factor is that you’re supporting new authors which will ultimately drive the value of the underlying HIVE.
Everything’s relative but imo 8.31 + supporting new authors seems like a good deal
Posted Using LeoFinance
6% is decent, but are you having as much fun? :)
It's the main reason for the delegation. I know I could probably do better for myself, but the potential to 'drive the value of the underlying HIVE' is why I'm good with it. Cheers.
The only fun I have with the 6% is getting an email each month saying “your interest payout this month _____”
With hive I get to login each day, play around with some buttons, read some stuff, watch some stuff, make a few posts... oh and make more than double the APY. Pretty good value prop.
I’ll have to check out curangel as well. I like the idea of supporting up and comer creators on hive but admittedly don’t know much at all about their project
Posted Using LeoFinance
Far more fun to be had here :)
It's tough to find all the new/good stuff, especially if you are curating with HP. A bit easier in the tribes at present, I suspect the LEO curation account doesn't miss much. Going well at present, nice!
You are forgetting that Hive itself has around 7% inflation, so in that light, your 8% APR is really only about 1% gain.
Posted via neoxian.city | The City of Neoxian
hmm, right. Back to the bank then... :)
And everyone comes crashing back down to reality!
Posted Using LeoFinance
LoL. A good laugh is needed at times.
Posted Using LeoFinance
Just like traditional bank investment.
Aren't you forgetting the underlying can rally 1200 satoshi to 12000 satoshi, a 10X move in 5 days?
Also @abh12345. Can you please look into my total percentage return using curangel? How is mine following curangel and mostly countering malicious DVs :)
Somebody get a dark background on that tool above :) @reazuliqbal. It’s 12:24 AM and it’s burning my eyes :)
Also; due to the fork alone; we all nearly doubled our investment; where in the real world you get to do that in a month? Rather instantly?
I do not develop useful tools. 😂 may be @khaleelkazi can help with the dark mode. :)
Better than expected?
If you know of a place please let me know :)
I don’t know any such place. :)
Also I think this APR business is noise. You worry about APR where underlying is USD or GBP or something that is stable. An underlying that move 10X up and down, APR is meaningless. It’s in the noise.
I was going to say that's pretty good until the reminder from Neo down below!
But 1% is still better than Barclays.
And it ain't fiat, or corporate!
Posted Using LeoFinance
Yes I'd forgotten that part :)
I guess if my main account gets 13, and this 10% gets 8.5, 12% ish overall and 5% with the inflation removed. That'll do.
5% Ain't too bad!
It's not a fantasy return!
Inflation makes it really bad, just like your normal bank investment where you don't get anything if inflation gets into account.
It is a difficult thing to decide, trail following and delegating does make sense as an account grows, or as the value/price of hive increases. I am thinking that 5000 HP, (which I will have soon), is a good point to be thinking about these things. I hope to be able to keep my own personal vote value at about the $0.23 price at a 25% vote range. This allows me to cast a vote and feel I am giving my two cents so to speak. I currently have a few delegations out, family support and others, and will need to start thinking soon about the HP loan/lease and trail following.
For smaller accounts I have to agree if a person wants to be an active member and grow their account I think it is best for them to keep their vote power and to use it on stuff they like. Th amount of HP a person holds does have a dramatic effect on curation rewards. My curation rewards increased 65% from the delegations you and others gave me for the Earn Cryptocurrency challenge.
Personally I think you should keep the lot for a little while yet. There are many larger accounts who could delegate (and lose a little APR for the good of the cause). Having your vote worth more and sometimes appearing in the top 20 voters list is worth more to you at present.
I've seen that top 20 Voters list mentioned a few times what/where is it, and how does one find where they are on the list? I will have a big re-think about my out-goings after my full power down is done.
I wrote posts about this when curangel launched and showed it's ROI but they got downvoted to zero by newsteem that run it.
8% is a good return in general but for HIVE, it's a little shit. I see people saying that banks only pay out less than 1% but what was the price of STEEM this time last year? Pretty sure a dollar is still worth a dollar.
I personally feel sorry for people that delegate to curangel.
All the more reason to delegate :) The downvotes will fade I'm sure.
Likely less than it is now :D
We aren't even positive it is going to new blood. It could be going to people who realize playing the noob card is more profitable when their older accounts stop growing. For example posting 3x a day with one account is boring, but posting every second day with 6 different accounts can be very profitable.
8.31% APR isn't exceptional considering the inflation. I would want at least 10%. Also, we need to consider the volatility of Hive. Will it continue to increase in price? It could go down or it could stay the same. There is also 83 million Hive in the dao and if that moves anywhere other than null, better be well worth it or whoosh it's like satoshi selling his bitcoin.
I think people should just do what they want unless their goal is to maximize rewards.
True regarding the first sentence, but what can we do about that?
Yup, although I'm advertising the project, I don't think it is for everyone.
I was delegating to curangel for a bit. Nothing big, just like 500 HP...But I decided to go a different route and discovered (I know, I know, I suck...) actually following certain accounts by using hive.vote.
Like I said...I suck for taking almost 3 years to figure that out lol
My APR has gone up and so has my rewards almost daily. I keep it manageable, and only really 'follow' a few accounts to upvote. So far it's been working, but I still love the manual curation angle....No idea if it's working or not lol
Yeah, it'll be tough to beat autovotes for APR. Nice to have a mix of delegation, manual, and some autos I think.
For sure. Seems to work out pretty well....A big 'ah ha' moment for my tribe is when I show them the APR they get for just staking...They seem to get fascinated on that alone...It's like the tip of the ice berg ;)
I think pushing this message out to the world is important if we are to attract investors. Hopefully an advertising/marketing campaign will come and 'consumer rewards' will be the focus.
It isn't about APR, it is about engaging with the people you like and writing about the content you enjoy.
Or in the end, it wasn't about how they all ended up on the same catamaran, richer than they could ever fathom, but the friendships they made along the way.
It is.
The issue I (and most) have is that it's impossible to read everything, and keep up to date with new arrivals who deserve some attention. Losing a bit of APR to support them is fine by me.
Looking forward to a cold beer on a Catamaran, one day :)
I think 8% is fine, As long as it's higher than inflation it's all good.