Hive: What Kind Of Progress Are We Really Making?

in LeoFinance8 months ago

An interesting set of events happened the last couple days that could make one wonder what is going on.

A few days ago, @theycallmedan reposted an article that Dan Larimer wrote a few years called "Steemit's Evil Plan for Cryptocurrency World Domination". It is a manifesto of sorts which he spelled out what he saw as the future of Steemit.

More about this in a few seconds.

Then we had a surprise yesterday when Dan L. made his first post in more than 2.5 years and the first one on Hive. Could this be coincidental? More than likely. The post was short, promoting a new book that he is working on.

That said, oerhaps he is interested in becoming more active in the community. He put this comment up.


Whatever Dan decides to do, the rehive of an old article allowed us to look at where we can from and what the thought process was back then.

Steemit Inc and Ned

To delve into this, it is interesting to see that the statement at the time was that it would be a long road. Obviously, it was known back in 2018 that this would not be an overnight process.

Here is a direct quote:

The road is long, but the Steem community will eventually follow the yellow-brick-blockchain to the Emerald City and in the process overcome the wicked witch of the west.

Obviously, the Steem community, as many understood it to be, ended up on Hive. A lot stayed behind and now are under the thumb of Sun. One thing we can saw about Sun, he helped to fulfill the second part of that paragraph.

The Steemit community just needs to over come its fears, stop being cowardly, and find it in their heart to love one another.

While love might be a strong word, the events of January through March did pull the community together, who cast aside all differences to rally for one cause. Although the effort failed in regards to the Steem blockchain, a brand new one was formed which opened up the door to other possibilities.

Hive started in March. This means we are dealing with 7 months. Steemit Inc was in control for over 4 years. How much of the progress that was discussed in the original article was delayed because of the misguided actions of that organization? It is impossible to calculate but it does seem we are moving forward at a much faster pace than before.

Therefore, if nothing else, one of the biggest benefits of the hard fork is the removal of Steemit Inc as the roadblock to progress. Now it is up to the community to forge ahead. Of course, the ninja stake going into the DAO and removed from governance helps a great deal also.


There is not a lot that needs to be said here. Last March showed how strong the community it. While the community might not be enormous in numbers, it is very dedicated and loyal. The events in the past has made everyone here resilient to all attacks. When wLEO was hacked, those people behaved like Hivians, buckling down and getting busy.

One of the main premises is this:

The key to bootstrapping a currency is having a community which is able and willing to use it.

Obviously, this is true since we know that anything requires people willing to use it to be successful. It is still debatable where we stand with the currency, especially since it was focusing upon the SBD (HBD). However, we do have the community.

Sidechains and Smart Contracts

It is obvious this is the stage we are seeing a great deal of progress. The article also mentioned "smartcoins" which became known as "SMTs". It is not applicable at the base layer as of now, yet we see it clearly on Hive-Engine.

The recent focus upon decentralizing Hive-Engine is an effort to make this project more viable to what was envisioned. Trust is key and many will not trust something that is centralized.

At the same time, many are concentrating on building the tools that can offer the developers the ability to build vibrant layer 2 solutions on Hive. Again, this was probably something that should have happened a few years ago, but, alas, this is where we are.

It is incredible to read what was written knowing that there is a growing attitude on Hive that says "anything you can do, so can we". Naturally this does not apply to the base layer which is still rather specialized and going to remain that way. However, by offering the functionality on the second layer, all features that other chains have can be replicated.

There is one exception though.

Unlike other smart contract platforms, Steem will have no fees! This means app developers can build things that just aren’t viable elsewhere.

There is that fast and fee-less thing again. Even back then, it was realized how important that is. Watching the transaction cost of both Bitcoin and Ethereum skyrocket over the last few months, it really drives home how much of an advantage that truly is.

Ironic that EOS, Dan's next project, does not have that capability. Sometimes tradeoffs have to be made it seems.

As many stated, the future of Hive's success is at the second layer. Here is where all the juicy stuff will happen. As we are seeing, gaming it excelling which is not something that could be done at the base layer. We also got an indication of the first "yield farming" game that will be build on Hive-Engine.


Thus far, we missed this one. While there are a few options out there, for the most part, there is not a thriving marketplace for HIVE or HBD where goods and services can be purchased. This could happen yet, for now, it is absent.

However, what we do have is people starting to accumulate currencies. When Hive-Engine was introduced, it game people an opportunity to create their own tokens to reward their community members. This translates into people receiving rewards in many different forms.

The value of these rewards, for the most part, is minimal. We are seeing this changing as Leofinance is showing. A few other "tribes" are following suit, increasing the value, at least in the short term, of their tokens.

All this could feed into a robust marketplace. For the moment, we are seeing some financial products being developed which gives people options. This can be expanded, over time, to include an assortment of other products and services. In the near term, hopefully we see wealth built for those token holders, giving them resources to help further advancement.

The Road Map

Sometimes is it beneficial to check things against the road map laid out. Certainly, the article from 4 years ago only spelled out some guidelines that he envisioned coming into being. Over that time, some were achieved, others not so much.

The question is whether or not that path is still a way to success? It seems to make a lot of sense especially since some of it is where we are seeing progress presently being made. The question about HBD is long discussed on here and might be worthy of revisiting. In haste to make other tokens have value, those currency was completely overlooked. Perhaps it is rightly so yet should be delved into as to keep it or not.

Stepping back can offer incredible insight. It is too easy to fall prey of being so focused we miss what is taking place around us. The metric of token price often can be misleading. If the road is long which, indeed, it is, then we need to realize the game is not close to ending. According to this "roadmap", we are only partially on the path to success.

How things unfold over the next couple years is still going to depend greatly upon what is built upon Hive. The base layer is getting stronger with each new update. Old code and software is being replaced with new. Nevertheless, that is not what is going to drive the success of Hive.

It will be the games, applications, and whatever else is built upon here. That is what will attract users. The process that was laid out by Dan makes sense. Of course, we changed the order some which might be causing delay. That said, there is still a strong foundation which is already in place.

Now it is time to start constructing the other levels on top of it.

If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.

gif by @doze


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Welcome back @dan!

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Stepping back can offer incredible insight. It is too easy to fall prey of being so focused we miss what is taking place around us. The metric of token price often can be misleading.

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I'm glad that @dan is back. But I never liked that post, especially the Trojan Horse line:

A blogging platform that makes it possible for everyone to earn their way in is just a trojan horse. It is a means of hiding the vegetables (honest money) in the food (fun content).

Why did someone who isn't interested in blogging platforms, except as a means to another end, create two blogging platforms? I know why, it's a rhetorical question. It's such a convoluted scheme, like opening a flower stall across the road from the girl you have a crush on. This explains why we rely on PeakD for a decent interface, and why Voice's design sucks (haven't tried posting there yet, I just got my invitation this week).

Meta: I hate this tiny slit I have to edit my comment in. Something went wrong and a phrase was repeated.

you may be on to something with this one :D

even current developers are not that much into the social part of it (seen by a lot of bugs in the blogging part of the platform 2-3 weeks after the hf). And i find that fascinating as it would be interested how many people joined and invested because all the non social network options of the blockchain.

The response over Voice, at least what I read since I have no first hand knowledge, does not appear to be positive.

A lot went into Voice but it appears that it is not taking off. For all that cash, it still seems that Hive is ahead of it (I could be wrong since I havent seen what goes on there).

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Yeah, it's not so easy to find users for a new social media network. Even Google+ failed. From a marketing point of view, I don't understand the target audience: how many people want both censorship resistance and a real-name policy with identity checks?

LOL I found steem after g+ died how ironic

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Yeah, it seems to me people detest KYC for exchanges but at least they can justify it.

But to go through that to post articles and comments, I think it is unappealing overall.

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From what I've read.. that was the intention. Built on the belief that blogging was going to blow up with rewards attached (attract mainstream). Thus the activity of steemit would then sustain SBD as the stablecoin which could then be used in those more ambitious projects like a marketplace.

It didn't take off though.
An elite circle of jerk masters developed and rewards were very selective. Then under Ned it became: pay to play/win.

@dan says he left because he was getting censored but that's not true. He only got censored because he kept promoting EOS after he had left. As if Ned had any authority over him. Ned never had a clue about anything. He depended on others and the reason those others got slack on furthering steem is because the leadership under Ned was garbage.

This chain is just too basic for big dreams.
No Trojan. A little ladder on the side of the wall in a siege that never really troubled mainstream is all.

As steemit and as Hive.

The future doesn't look any different.
A different Dan seeks to take this chain further. Directing an agro that really just wanted to keep h-e as is. So the solution of making h-e into SMT is looking to be a very low effort solution.

"No code" smart contacts the dream...


I wonder if Dan has any plans up his sleeve for Hive. Why the sudden appearance?

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i think Hive is pulling on his heart strings. I think he realises the most powerful and successful work he has done yet was/is Steemit which is why he came to plug his new book here. He's proud of his book, his career and i think probably Hive too. It has spawned into everything he wanted it to be. Epic timing, epic symbolism. Hive is going to show everyone in crypto world eventually that it is a concept and a community to be reckoned with.

I thought the same thing but he still has his hands full with EOS.

Could be simply he knows there is a like minded community and wants some exposure for his new book.

We will see if there are follow up posts and if he says anything about Hive.

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Ah, he has a book coming out. That's wonderful news because I'm completely sure he will mention Hive and hopefully in a positive light in it.

Well if there is a choice between Hive and Steem, it is obvious where Dan will side. He had little love for Ned and obviously no need for Justin Sun.

The Hive fork showed how his project did withstand the push towards centralization so it validated DPOS, at least to a degree. True there was a fork, but Sun was not simply able to take control like he would in a centralized situation.

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I think if only half of the things that are currently being worked on get done in the next year or so, we are in a good position. But it feels like we are fighting an uphill battle. Let's see how it goes

I am not sure all that is being planned since I do not have intimate details of it all.

Leofinance has a lot of plans which they will likely bring out a lot of it. From what I understand, 3Speak is working on something big. Outside of that, I am sure there is a lot planned with Splinterlands and Hive Engine but I dont know what.

It will be fun to watch.

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If we have about two, three tribes trying to create value for their community it could up the value of hive from the outside. I think it's all about collective contributions. I'm glad to see @dan back hopefully he gets into the thick of things with the rest of the guys

Four or five projects all making new levels of success could be huge for Hive. So far, we are watching Splinterlands and Leofinance starting to make some progress.

Hopefully a few more will join the party.

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I hope that I am welcomed back, I left because my posts were being censored by @ned and @steemit

I would give that a very positive interpretation.

It certainly is. We all know there were major feelings between him and Ned. How much that extended out to the rest of the community, hard to tell.

Although Ned will not win any popularity contests around here.

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If I remember correctly, Ned was totally inflexible with whatever his demands were at any given moment, and basically had the attitude that Steemit wasn't big enough for the two of them, it was either Ned's way or way. I have no first hand information, but that's how I understood it anyway.

It was before my time so I cant comment since I was not around.

Nevertheless, Ned showed what he brought to the table by his running of the organization after Dan left. Perhaps Dan was not suited for it either, but Ned proved himself a total failure at it.

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Yeah, I wasn't around either. That's just what I heard. Maybe someone else knows more. I think the Ned story was that he was only interested in himself ...

BTW, how's your 10 comment a day challenge going? I'm trying, but not getting there yet. It's the effort that counts, right?



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TAN Current Market Price : 0.500 HIVE

I think the Ned story was that he was only interested in himself ...

Well that sounds about right based upon events the last few years.

It appears to be going well. Leofinance is getting a fair number of people commenting and some of the bigger accounts are upvoting them. We had a few comments top 10 LEO in rewards which is nice to see.

People now have incentive to post comments.

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 8 months ago 

I was around at the time, but nobody was sharing anything specific about the falling out. Just speculation.

There has already been too much ENGAGE today.

Thank you for the post your always here with new good news
Be blessed.

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If there is a shared past, there can be a cooperative future. Build a gateway between EOS and HIVE to allow Account creation (like LEO did for Metamask) in both directions as well as transfer of value would be a nice thing. It would be a sign of a true culture of decentralization, of providing maximal options instead of building closed communities. Unfortunately, this mindset is not very common.

The bridge is always on the road map for Leofinance. EOS is one of the changes they will incorporate into their sign up system.

When that will happen? I am not sure.

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I was wondering what all the hype was about when this Dan L. posted on Hive. I know the role he had as co-founder of the Steem chain and that he pulls his own weight as dev at EOS, but I didn't know what all the drama and history between him and Steemit was. Thanks for shining a bit more light on that for me.

The Hive-Engine is definitely a gold mine. Anyone who just focuses on Hive and HP is missing out. Let's hope Hive-Engine is durable long term. If code keeps getting updated consistently combined with cryptocurrency as a whole moving into the mainstream light, the future looks bright for Hive.

I think the excitement is the fact that Dan L is still a name that carries a lot of weight in this industry and he has a rather large following. Thus, if he is willing to get involved with Hive in some capacity, even as a community member, that would be helful.

I do not believe that is his intention. However, I could be wrong. We will see if his blog gets some activity.

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Yeah, I figured as much after a quick scan of his Wikipedia page.
And even if he doesn't have any clear intent. His presence and activity alone is already a huge boost to the credibility of Hive.

Very true. Even a couple posts a week would make a difference.

He might still have some "friends" among the community. Dan from Blocktrades evidently has done a lot of work with the Larimers...I am not sure how close he is to Dan L.

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Clash of the Dans, lol
Only time will tell I guess.

I don’t see why HIVE and EOS can’t get along as well as other EOSIO chains like wave and telos, appics is now moving to Telos so clearly dApps can migrate and go across pairs

Working with EOS we can tap into their DEX listings, we can wrap on EOS and Vice versa it would really bring a lot of options to HIVE!

They bagged Google as a block producer too, and even though they have been muddied a bit I think overall it’s a good friend to have in your corner

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I think you hit upon it. It is up to the DApps.

Leofinance, as part of their road map, has EOS integration on tap for their sign ups just like Ethereum.

Thus we will see some integration on that end.

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It was definitely a surprise to suddenly see a post from Dan (Larimer) show up. I'm still not clear on what motivated it — aside from promoting his book — but I suppose time will tell. Is Dan an idealist who envisions change, or is he just a shrewd businessman who walks from one project to the next with some fresh millions in his pocket? BitShares, Steem, EOS, BlockOne, Voice... what's next?

This is definitely a long-term gig. I fear people spend too much time "ticker watching" and judging failure/success accordingly, rather than looking at the big, long-term multi-year picture. You wouldn't manage an entire baseball team simply around only the next game, would you? There are more games, and more seasons, and legacies way down the road.

As you may know by know, my own soapbox issue is the marketplace... a way to provide a solid and ongoing use case; a base demand for the token. Yet, it seems like a hot potato, and often earns the response "Nah, let's just build some more games!" (that 17 people will play) like that's the be-all, end-all answer to everything. Sure, every developer dreams of creating a blockbuster game, but for every great success, there are 10,000 failures long forgotten.


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Marketplace is surely needed. It is a major hole in the entire industry. Years ago, some were saying that Steemit Inc should built it on It fell on deaf ears. Nevertheless, I agree with you, shops are needed in a big way.

Technology is a long term process. People forget that Amazon spent 20 years building to the point where it started to make enormous profits. The same is true for Tesla which is now only starting to hit its stride.

This will take a while but it is evolving. Each week, we are seeing progress being made in the entire industry. Hive is certainly making some strides yet more could be done.

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If HIVE had a HiveOPedia, I would nominate this post for the roadmap and progress report in one. Vision 2025 indeed. 👍

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A beehive needs a good leader and a solid roadmap, at this time we do not know where we are going, every company needs a leader and if an investor asks who is the representative of the beehive ... ???

Only Khal with LEO and Dan with peadk and Aggroep with their applications are the ones I observe doing something for the beehive (talking about witnesses) because content creators like us do our best to find people, promote, vote, heal and publish, that is to say create community and we have done it perfectly

Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!
Week 29 of my contest just can now check the winners of the previous week!

Related news: @dan started a personal blog site to gather his content from multiple platforms in one place: More Equal Animals.

Yes true so Hive might just be a feed into his personal blog.

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I think one thing that those who want to ignore the everyday social user are missing seeing is how important they can be for testing and trying new things out. I know right now Hive seems to be a closed and heavily gated community to many, but with out the social aspects what makes Hive different than any other chain? zero fees and fast transactions?, but where would leofinance be if there was no community to build in.

You are not going to find a five star restaurant on route 66 in the middle of nowhere, there are simply no customers.

I always liked Dan, from the very moment I joined Steemit. I always felt Ned was the biggest treat so I am glad to see Dan on Hive. It doesn't matter much if it's only to promote his book or not. I personally don't think he would try to promote his book on Hive if he didn't had any interest in Hive at all. On the other hand, he could see it as a fool-proof way to up his sales due to his history with Steem.

  • How about EOS and LEOFinance/Hive integration..?

Dan is a rather big name out there and even though people might have different opinions about him, it's crystal clear that he has done some really cool things. I think Hive would benefit greatly having him involved in some way.

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I do not have any hope that dan will work in/for Hive though his ideas and vision can benefit us.

I am not sure but I think there is no project update /roadmap and progress is getting shared in Hive.

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I think fees are a good thing. Not only do they stop spam, they also curate the community and ensure that the chain size does not experience runaway growth over time.

But here's a question that I openly pose to @dan and the Hive community:

It now seems like we have several chains that share DNA in significant ways and criticize how you'd like, if you go through the source code is any of them, you will find stuff that is simply years ahead. Genuine next level thinking.

I don't really think that we get there in isolation and I also don't really think that these chains ended up being ideal for money. In fact I think that their ideal use has been persistent, economically secured content storage. The content storage only falls into question when the economy falters.

I'm not here to say that the fee-less approach is totally wrong, there are trade-offs.

I suppose I'm here to wonder out loud if it is possible to make improvements jointly at all, of if we have diverged too much for example with layer 2 and hive mind, which we have no intention of supporting at Blurt.

One thing is for sure, regardless of weak points, nearly five years of continued operation proves that Dan had a vision, and even if parts of it were questionable, there is clearly enduring value.

too many dans in the kitchen spoil the broth.

Hivians are Jedis! 🗡️

@taskmaster4450, In my opinion when it comes to the Hive Blockchain the Experimentation is becoming Growth. Stay blessed.

Hive engine canceling open orders after 30 days is the major reason why the price of most tokens are surging and also why alot of promoter stopped supporting their tokens if that can be fixed I see the price of Hive and hive tokens sky rocket.