WEB2 >> WEB3: Mitigating the Prescient Attack Vector of All Hive Lite Accounts

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Back in 2017 when Steem was spiking to $8 and shitposts within this community were getting 4-digit dollar payouts, we saw an attack vector emerge from an unlikely source. I forget the name of the Blackhat that did this, but he's not that important to begin with. He figured out how to farm Steemit Incorporated delegations by creating new accounts.

Back then Steemit Inc. was giving something like 30 Steem Power per account in order to have the "bandwidth" to operate on chain. This was before Resource Credits even existed, and it was indeed a bandwidth system that was not as good as resource credits.

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I can tell you I was proud of those 1000 coins I acquired.

Now I make 1000 coins every week.
Pretty insane.

But that's not the point.

The point is that using very basic knowledge of the Steem ecosystem, this blackhat was able to create a bot army that Steemit Incorporated was feeding 30 SP per account or whatever it was. Farming accounts in this way only became financially viable when Steem spiked from 10 cents to $8. All of a sudden each farmed account became 80 times more valuable. The 30 SP accounts were added to a bot army that curated/upvoted posts at the blackhat's command.

Again, this all becomes possible when the value of the token spikes up. This is because the bandwidth limitations on this network can not scale up nearly as fast as the price when we enter a mega-bull-run. The value of the token can go x100 before our bandwidth and infrastructure receive any upgrades whatsoever. Thus the amount of bandwidth legitimate users need remains the same, but the dollar cost to delegate new users skyrockets.

The price of transitioning from WEB2

At the risk of saying cliché crypto things, we really need to get innovative and creative with our solutions to these problems. WEB2 has made people soft. It has turned them into cattle or other forms of livestock. They are the product; the data they create is owned by the WEB2 entity that gives them 'free service'.

And thus if we want to get users over here to WEB3 we have to make a transition bridge. It has to LOOK like WEB2 but it has to actually be WEB3 under the surface. We won't be able to strip away the façade of this deception until mainstream adoption comes and the people of this world actually understand that WEB3 means no more free service. When you own your data you are no longer data livestock, but a valuable employee of the network ready to make contributions and get paid for the work.

LEO and SPK network

Both of these networks are trying to do what Steemit Incorporated was doing (sort of). Any frontend or app of Hive needs to onboard users. Onboarding is very difficult because the learning curve for Hive is surprisingly difficult. Perhaps you don't think it is difficult because you thought it was cool and more than willing to do the work (this applies to yours truly), however other, shall we say, lazier users, will not be willing to do the work and will ragequit when they don't get the UX they were expecting.

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And Thus: Lite Accounts Were Born!

The idea here is that the frontend will act as custodian for the user, holding all their security keys for them on their node, while the new user slowly figures out the platform instead of being hit with a ton of bricks right from day one. It's a good idea, but it needs some work.

We need to be gamifying the experience of learning about keys. We need newbie frontends that don't have full access to everything and slowly unlock different aspects of the platform so all this new WEB3 stuff doesn't overwhelm them. Not only that, this is the attention economy, so we need to be paying users to do these things. There are several ways to do this and some of them even involve a bit of trickery (for example charging the user debt only to take away that debt later as a reward for learning about the platform). However, before we can do any of these things we need to crush the obvious attack vector.

RC delegations

Many devs on Hive think this is going to solve the problem... it's not going to, and it's frustrating that so many devs around here don't seem to understand why. To be fair, it's going to help the problem quite a bit, and it will perhaps even push the problem back even five years so we won't have to deal with it again until that time. But there is a better way of stopping bot armies from farming Hive accounts, and no one has even attempted it or talked about it (except me of course).

The solution is a simple one.

Deceptively simple.

If blackhats are farming Hive accounts because farming Hive accounts have value (RC delegations reduce this value but they do not eliminate the value, especially when Hive is growing exponentially) then... stop letting the blackhat own the accounts. Duh!

Now perhaps a Hive dev would read that sentence and be thinking, "Wow, what an asshole! If we don't let the blackhats own the account then how are we going to let legitimate users own the account? That's the entire point!"

That is, indeed, the crux of the issue.

How do we separate the chaff from the wheat?

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It's actually quite easy:

Stop giving users their accounts for free! DUH!

But if we stop giving away accounts for free then we lose the WEB2 experience and the transition bridge from WEB2 to WEB3 gets severed. Hive will not achieve mainstream adoption until WEB3 itself goes mainstream and the bridge becomes unnecessary.

Again, another extremely valid point that needs to be manipulated to get the best of both worlds.

Users need the WEB2 experience but they need to pay for WEB3 access.
How can we resolve this conflict?

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Ironically, the solution is debt.

We can put new users into debt immediately on account creation without them even knowing they are in debt. How would they know they are in debt? They are noobs. Know nothing noobs who know nothing. They won't mind if we put them into debt.

So every Lite account that gets created will charge new users something like 5 Hive to create their account. This is debt, so the user gets a WEB2 experience. The user did not have to enter their credit card to buy 5 Hive for an account. The user got their account for "free" just like in WEB2. Only a password and email address for 2FA is required, just like WEB2. On the backend the custodian node still owns the WEB3 account and will not release it until they have been paid back in full.

UPGRADE

If a user wants to upgrade their account to WEB3 and gain access to those keys, then they need to pay the 5 Hive debt back to get it. It could even be 10 Hive that they owe back. This would be even better for UX, and I'll explain why.

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It only costs 3 Hive to create an account.

Why would we charge more Hive to users than the cost to create the account? Isn't that greedy? No, it's smart. It's just like on Black Friday when all those companies jack up their prices two weeks before and then lower them on Black Friday to trick the sheep into thinking they are getting a good deal. It's genius really.

If we charge an account 10 Hive in debt on creation, then we can create a gamified experience about learning what Hive is. Perhaps a tutorial is created to teach the noobs what a private posting key is. On completion of the tutorial the user earns 1 or 2 Hive that is credited to their account. Now they owe back less money to upgrade to WEB3.

Same story for learning about the other keys or writing a blog post or how there are dozens of Hive frontends (all with the same login) or how to send and receive money or how curation works or what witnesses are or how the decentralized hive fund works or what powering up means or...

You see, when we actually stack up the learning curve on Hive and WEB3, it really is nothing like WEB2, and this is why people have so much trouble with it. If we want users, we need the transition from WEB2 to WEB3 to not only be painless, but also a fun and gamified experience. The attention economy demands they get paid for providing value to the network. Learning about the network is quite valuable when millions of users are doing it all at once and getting ready for their journey as Hive employees.

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Imagine what happens when Hive spikes to $100 a coin.

Let's be honest, 99% of users on this network don't give a flying fuck what happens when Hive is $100, because they just went x100 on their personal stack. They're rich! There are no problems! WEEEEEE! Let's celebrate. Everyone is making 4 to 5 digit figures on their blog posts. Everyone is losing their damn minds just like in 2017.

This is dangerous.

When in reality the price spiking to $100 is actually a way bigger problem for the network than what we have now. Imagine the cost of accounts going to $300. Imagine lowering the cost of accounts to 1 Hive, and it still costs $100 to create an account and even then the burden to the nodes is too high and everything is breaking. There's a reason making an account costs money and we can't "just lower it" and expect zero consequences. That's delusional thinking.

But if we gamify the experience and charge users debt, then imagine how this entire situation gets flipped. All of a sudden a new user learns about the private posting key and they "earn" 1 Hive for doing so. The UX creates a massive positive feedback loop because the user feels like they just earned $100 to learn about a network where they are about to earn a lot more money where that came from. This is a sustainable way of doing things that will generate massive hype and a positive feedback loop that actually can be maintained as we scale up.

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UX is your new god now!

The User eXperience of a development like this will have staggering affect. Users will feel like they are making money even though it's all smoke and mirrors. That's exactly what a transition from WEB2 to WEB3 has to be if we want to get that mythical mainstream adoption everyone is talking about.

Demonetizing the blackhats

If blackhats do not get to own the keys to the accounts they create for free, then 99% of them will stop trying to exploit the network in this way. That leaves the remaining 1% who want to fuck with that particular frontend just for the fun of it (or if we have enemies trying to bring it down).

The only way to truly mitigate the attack vector 100% is to create WEB2 accounts that never even create the Hive WEB3 account until they are actually paid for with RCs/Hive. I think the SPK network is working on this concept with Ceramic accounts but I need to look into it more deeply.

However, this is probably not necessary because we already have seen how WEB2 deals with these situations. WEB2 accounts require an email address. These days some of them even require a phone number. Also their are CAPTCHAs everywhere to curb the Sybil attack vector. We can employ all of the same strategies that traditional WEB2 would to mitigate these issues.

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Conclusion

Viruses are a necessary evil of life, progression, and evolution; be it within a digital landscape or IRL. Without viruses attacking every possible threat vector, we would never be properly incentivized to create robust systems that defend themselves and have saying power. Perhaps it's time for me to buy some Vitamin C, D, and Zinc supplements. Diet and exercise can't hurt either, just like spending the extra time to make a program unassailable is also not a waste of time or resources. Too many devs stumble forward in this space instead of taking the time required to shore up their defenses and clean up the mess behind them.

Thus far, none of the onramps to Hive have any kind of useful onboarding to new users. If it doesn't look and feel like WEB2 then it isn't going to work, but also if users aren't being charged for the upgrade to WEB3 it will be exploited by bot farmers who know these things have value. Again, the solution to this problem is debt and the gamification of our steep learning curve. No one said the transition to WEB3 was going to be an easy one.

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28 comments
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I also believe that $3 paid from a lightning wallet for an account is a valid gateway. In USA and some bits of Europe getting $3 of Lightning is starting to be very easy.

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(Edited)

I love this article.

Makes a lot of sense and reminds me a bit of the "coinbase-earn" feature on Coinbase where one can watch a series of videos about a particular coin, answer a fake (easy) question about the 45 seconds they just watched and earn four or five dollars worth of said coin.

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It Is so hard, i bring to here some friends AND they do not uses their acount

AND i spend my Monet for nothing.

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This is an amazing post. It makes sense to charge a hive account. Then when it can pay up, from earnings or however they want to pay. As long as it's cleared, then they get the keys back. Because I know from fact, mist people wouldn't pay 3 hive upfront to use the hive account. They know it's a goldmine here. With the Leofinance and other airdrops, personally I think it's worth every dollar !

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the only way lite accounts works fine is use a EVM chain as proxy. Not for transactions. But for log in into hive.

So a "mother wallet with multi sig" can make transactions for those EVM chain lite wallets.

Unlimited wallets but no connection was needed to the chain. Only verify via metamask.

Easy.

A Custom Json could look like that: Wallet-adress/transaction(buy splinterlandscard xyz).

So everyone knows EVM wallet xyz owns Splinterlands card XYZ on hive.

Something I started working on it, but because of technical problems ( no skills in deep programming), I stop.

Was for a front end idea i had for mass onboarding. I mean i would need cheap wallets for onboarding, otherwise, marketing would become to expensive for my idea :)

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We need to be gamifying the experience of learning about keys. We need newbie frontends that don't have full access to everything and slowly unlock different aspects of the platform so all this new WEB3 stuff doesn't overwhelm them.

I wrote a post about this a while ago. I was talking about starting something similar to the Coinbase earn program where you earn crypto as you learn about crypto. I was thinking we could have tasks that people need to complete and once they do, then they get delegated or given some more powered up Hive to their account. So you jump through the hoops and you end up with an account at 50 HP or something like that. More than enough to start building.

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Hm yeah I have a friend who thought the Coinbase situation was a good UX.
He seemed to enjoy getting his few dollars here and there.

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You should start pushing weight around here, you're the only one who actually has ideas worth implementing.

That @hivebuzz 'badges for the sake of badges' could be overhauled to really work in a way you outline.

HIVE is am embarrassment imo, it's mainly full of clowns who claim "this is the greatest place on Earth.." but then get defensive when someone points out why it actually isn't. No one wants to actually look at the reasons why outsiders see it as a big turnoff in it's current form.

Everyone just rocks back and fourth chanting "x project will be the killer dapp... you have to BEE LIEVE!"

Anyway the current approach is broken..

IT'S MARKETED AS "FREEDOM" BUT IT IS ACTUALLY "WORK FOR A FEW BOB."

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It keeps me engaged and teaches me about new tokens to degen into!

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This is a really good article. I was talking to some friends about the onboarding process of Hive and how hard it is to convince friends to check it out. Making a slow transition from web2 to web3 is a great idea, and I love the gamification part where you have to complete tutorials to pay back.

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Very interesting idea to indebt Hive Lite accounts. The debt could be paid off by post earnings and the user probably wouldn't notice.

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Yeah that's the idea. Everything in WEB3 has a cost, but users have exponentially more value than WEB2. We can leverage the value of the users to pay that cost without even them realizing that's what we are doing.

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But if we gamify the experience and charge users debt, then imagine how this entire situation gets flipped. All of a sudden a new user learns about the private posting key and they "earn" 1 Hive for doing so.

I think we should never give up having "free account to start earning through blogging" narrative for our blogging part of Hive. However, as long as people believe that they are going to get something without paying (via gamification as you explained), I think it can lessen the burden on the onboarding when the price skyrockets and it may yield better results especially when we are dealing with these free account trailers.

Let them earn free "Hiveish" coin to start WEB3 journey by leaving Web2 behind thanks to their commitment.

No initial payment, gamification + motivation to own something for free = healtier and sustainable onboarding IMO ✌

Thank you for opening our minds as usual 👊🏼

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Yea, our UX is pretty bad, unfortunately. Onboarding new people is very hard if they are not tech-savvy and even then, in some cases.

This debt thing is a promising solution.

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I've always been in support of a Lite version account of Hive. Glad you really made me realize how it all works and can work. The debt strategy is also really smart...especially if they don't know they're paying for it till it becomes too good an offer to pass up

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This is great! Reminds me of rewards based inbound marketing which is exactly what this space needs. I would like to learn how to develop apps and blockchain projects. Make a game that rewards people for learning this type of information too!

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I love the idea of users having to "earn" their account. That forces education and deters bots.

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(Edited)

Just some probably naive comments, but as a new Hive user I feel that some of this is in place already - I admit I don't fully understand things yet but it seems I'm having a Web2 experience by using keychain to login and using the websites to see my balance etc. - I bought a Hive account from Blocktrades so they are like a custodian and IMO I don't have the privacy I expected from a blockchain as my private key isn't what I consider private. there is also the necessity (as I found out) to purchase some Hive and then Power Up to have the ability to comment etc. - this may seem obvious to accustomed Hive users but it is like a debt we have to go into already, personally I really like the explore aspect of Hive and can imagine in a few years an exponential increase in the diversity of content. I like your article.

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... I bought a Hive account from Blockchain

... but it seems I'm having a Web2 experience by using keychain to login

... to purchase some Hive and then Power Up

These are all part of the WEB3 learning curve.

If you even know what keychain is or how to set it up you're already half way there.
Many people won't even make it past that barrier before giving up.

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the barriers are coming down and we're taking over - long live web3

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If you haven't helped someone set up a new account recently, you likely have forgotten what a pain it is! lol.

Totally interested in any attempts to make getting and using accounts more easily!

This was a great post, so much I could comment on.

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(Edited)

Not only your post but your comments are informative too. Just for the sake of more research (I am leaving it here), I onboarded people who are active on dbuzz only and have never seen the rest. The learning curve of dbuzz is easy as it's more like Twitter. With the addition to liketu frontend, we can onboard crazy cat picture lovers on hive too. I see many getting freebies on it and they only post for that sake although many posts in liketu community but never saw the beauty of frontends.

I have high hope for dbuzz, liketu for onboarding users with the ease to web3. Sometimes #lessismore

I hope it brings value to your beautiful comment section. It's so rare to have posts not filled "with nice" post comments or sometimes in worse cases fake praises to author that is bad for his writing criticism.

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Onboarding has always been an issue because Hive is fairly complex and most users need time to get used to it. However, the idea of having access to web3 through debt sounds interesting. What type of features would be blocked if they don't pay it back?

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I was enjoying and digesting this article till i saw this...

How would they know they are in debt? They are noobs. Know nothing noobs who know nothing. They won't mind if we put them into debt.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 funny, but true.

It will be interesting to see hive go above $5... very interesting.

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Your mind is exquisite. This ticks so many boxes, and solves so many problems, in such an easily understood way. I love it.
Just need to make account creation tokens transferrable at some point, and you have more utility for HP.
You know how you got your account on credit, and had to learn about keys and stuff, to get back in the black and take full ownership? Well, if you have more than n HP staked, you can make an account creation token yourself, every 5 days, and we'll buy it off you to onboard somebody new.

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(Edited)

That's not a bad idea at all to create a lite Hive account with associated debt, and gamify the process. I assume in the 1% of blackhats that will want to fuck with the front ends you included those who will still create a huge number of accounts just to deplete the account token claims the front ends have. Worse if the front ends will actually pay to create those accounts.

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I just did a search for 'Account Creation Token' - I have claimed tokens on my account, because someone told me it's a good thing to do - and came across your post. I was trying to understand why I would need 10 accounts for instance - or if I keep claiming tokens, 100 - and what would I use them for. Will keep hunting that answer, to know if it is really worth continuing to click claim token.

That said, I got caught up in your post. It was really a very interesting idea. You're right, HIVE is hard - some of it is intuitive, but I had to search for a lot of stuff and look at some youtube tutorials. If an account starts at -10 HIVE, it makes no difference to them - and by getting out of debt, it adds a lot of value to each hive earned. I'm on board this plan.

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