Reverse-Conversions: Two Birds One Stone
Leo and Hive. Two paths, one way.
By @palasatenea
Looks like @palasatenea got the attention of @blocktrades with the whole HBD CDP collateral savings accounts minting machines scenario. You spelled @Khameelkazi wrong, friend :D so close, but no cigar. Perhaps I should take this account? It's up for grabs!
I can see it now, @blocktrades seeing @edicted pop up on his notifications and asking himself:
Ug, what's that shit-talking maniac spewing this time?!
Do I need to move in for damage control again?
Give it a break, bud!
Message received!
When it comes down to it I give @blocktrades a super hard time for no other reason other than they have a huge amount of influence over the network and they are accepting an absolutely Goliath responsibility around here.
By all accounts, everyone who I've talked to says @blocktrades is cool.
Truth be told I would be pretty devastated if @blocktrades left the network. Who else is ready to pick up where Steemit left off? I'm hearing crickets in my head right now. I think the network could still thrive in that situation but core development would likely grind to a halt for a while.
While everyone else gets down on the price of Hive, I see accounts that I don't trust powering-down/selling, while accounts I do trust are accumulating / FOMOing into LEO. My interpretations of these developments are exceedingly bullish for this network. The low token price is the cost of increased decentralization/trust. It's a good trade.
Truth is this bull run has put me on major tilt: winners tilt. This is when we win so much during a lucky streak that we're more prone to making very foolish decisions because that's just "free money" that we can do whatever we please with it. What could possibly go wrong?
In the context of poker this means entering hands that I normally would have folded and eventually getting wrecked when my luck turns around. Emotional tilt was unsurprisingly (but also surprisingly) my weakest trait when playing cards. To the point of being in denial that this was even happening in the first place; making it even worse.
Most people only consider tilt when it applies to losing. Losing is emotionally devastating when large sums of money are involved. No one considers that the emotional state we're in when we are riding high can be equally as bad (or even worse).
Be careful not to fall, Leo!
Get it? LEO? What a happy accident.
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@palasatenea/leo-and-hive-two-paths-one-way
In any case @blocktrades gives a very valid, measured, and professional response. No surprises there.
Committing to a "solution" has a high overhead cost, especially when that "solution" is complex like CDP smart contracts. Who's to say it even works? Loading debt onto the network could easily backfire. It could add flaws in the code and create unknown attack vectors or other destabilizations.
Less is more
I think most would agree that a quick-fix simpler solution with less threat-vectors that solves more problems would be ideal in the interim. This is a solution that many other people have already suggested:
Reverse-Conversions
So rather than take all that time developing complex systems for collateralized debt positions and the voting mechanics to keep the network stable, we could just implement this quick-fix first two solve two different issues.
Issue #1
There is no way to create HBD when demand for stability is high. This could be solved by allowing users to convert Hive into HBD using the same 3.5 day average that it takes HBD to convert into Hive.
Issue #2
There is no way to convert the Steemit Inc ninjamine into HBD for the dev fund. This can be solved in the same way.
Problems
In the case of the ninjamine, I still believe that it should obviously be destroyed in good faith. Hive does not have the liquidity to support the ninjamine being dumped on the market (in any capacity) so there is no point in using those tokens for development, as they have no value. There's a reason why Ned sold them to JSun under the table. He would have dumped them otherwise. Might as well just continue funding the dev fund with 10% of our inflation, as that is actually a number that the network can sustain and not a Black Swan threat like the ninjamine.
Again, I think if we keep the ninjamine we should stop allocating 10% inflation to the dev pool and solely use the ninjamine "as intended". That 10% then could be allocated to the savings accounts for passive rewards (yada yada yada getting off track here).
On Track
There is one other way that Hive from the ninjamine can be converted into HBD, and that's with a buy wall on the internal market that's governed by a bot (smart-contract) that sells Hive for the correct dollar amount. This solution has two problems:
Problem #1
This buy wall is a honeypot for exploitation. The USD value of Hive is provided by witness feeds, giving witnesses a financial incentive to exploit the network by colluding to raise and lower the USD price of Hive (artificially via the oracle feed) for personal gain.
Problem #2
This buy wall undercuts the 10% debt haircut, rendering it completely inert. If the haircut were to go into effect, users would simply sell their HBD on the internal market, milking the ninjamine at full price, instead of converting it at a loss. Oops :(
Analysis
The only rational conclusion to be made here is that if @blocktrades truly intends to fund the DAO with the ninjamine, reverse-conversions of Hive to HBD must be implemented, or devs must accept funds in the form of Hive.
These reverse conversions could simply be applied to the entire network, so any account would be allowed to execute them; not just the @hive.fund account. Therefore, the problem of HBD not having a lid on the top-end would simply fix itself via this mechanic that we needed to implement anyway. Two birds, one stone.
Conclusions
Everyone has ideas, but the people who actually turn ideas into reality are a rare breed.
EASIER SAID THAN DONE!
People named Dan seem to be super important to this network.
I just realized my middle name is Daniel.
How embarrassing.
Perhaps middle name is good enough?
God is my judge.
That's what Daniel means.
Don't try to judge a Dan, or you shall be smited!
@dan
@theycallmedan
@blocktrades
@edicted
(Which of these tags does not belong? lol)
THAT'S RIGHT BABY!
Dan is also synonymous with attaining mastery level in both Eastern martial arts and board-games like Go.
Go is superior to chess!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_ranks_and_ratings
Looks like I'm Intermediate Amateur (9 Kyu).
Not bad.
So when someone says they are a black belt, what they really mean is they are some level of Dan (10 separate levels of mastery).
Personally, I have a black belt in bullshitting.
Facts!
Totally 100% on topic
Executive function is overrated.
Finally:
@blocktrades, thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice. Who knows, maybe one day I'll sit at the big boy table with the rest of the Dan's.
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Best of lucking being another badass "Dan" @edicted. :D
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I said there are no good crypto memes in 2020/21 but the Leo DiCaprio one was actually really good.
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Many consider DAN Marino to be the best quarterback of all time.
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And DANiel Snyder to be the worst owner on football.
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Daniel is a good well known singer here in Brazil.
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The hive in the DHF is already being converted to hbd since HF24, over the course of 4 years.
But still something needs to happen with HBD to make it.. better. A way to print HBD with hive would actually be a god send, cause then you could make a liquidity provider who can print HBD provide large amounts of liquidity when it's needed. Right now it's really impossible to do huge buys with hbd cause there never really is a lot about and 90% gets converted to hive.
Right I actually knew that at one point but forgot about it.
Do you know how that's implemented?
I don't know myself I was going to look at the gitlab to check it out but it's down atm. anyways since @howo developed it he'd know best.
iirc it's like a couple % trickle conversion over a 4 year period.
yeah im just wondering how they get converted... I assume they aren't being sold on the internal market... but i have no idea.
Itś a virtual operation that converts about 40k Hive into HBD per day. The operation itself doesnt show up on the blockexplorers (just like the "interest" paid to HP Holders doesn't generate a transaction) but you can keep track of it by checking the balance of the @hive.fund account.
I collect stats that I consider important about the blockchain every day so I can verify that the code is working as intended.
Correction: It can be verified on hiveblocks.com but not on hiveblockexplorer.com.
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We convert 0.05% of the hive to hbd every day. If you want to track it there's a vop being published on @hive.fund
What will be done with it? 😅
Nice edit, maybe your first reaction shouldn't be insults whenever you disagree with something.
As to what we'll do with it, well what the ninja mine was initially ment to do aka fund the development of hive.
Keep up the fire burning and make Hive great (again)! We need more people voicing their thoughts and trying to put this blockchain on the right track and with the right mindset.
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This stake is actively been converted into HIVE since the last hardfork via virtual operations
Just check
https://hiveblocks.com/@hive.fund
and ctrl F for sps ... its happening once per day with around 40k hive converted to HBD
Also the HBD in the fund is excluded from the debt ratio
I was planning on making a post about it :) ...at some point and would it means for the overall hive economy.
So what you're saying is that the code already exists to give the ability for everyone to do this? :D
Its already working :)
yeah but I mean that same code could be slightly modified to let everyone convert Hive for HBD.
Well I guess ... dunno the code :)
Cheers to the Dan's, love the brainstorm
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It's good to hear some faces of those that are putting in the work. If I knew how I'd do it but I don't sadly. Not sure if I would want to commit that time to learning it either as I'm sure it's a lot. Instead I'm more of an investor and opportunity seeker where I find people and systems I believe in and trust to get the job done. I have faith in hive and more so in LEO to get these things done.
I don't believe LEO would push off of HIVE at any point and in that case perhaps the growing dev and funds there will help to start making changes on HIVE itself?
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I've been calling for reverse conversions since the SBD peg last broke in late 2017. I kind of gave up on it ever happening because there is "windfall profit" for platform authors when the peg does break to the upside. There is probably only limited time before a pump of HBD occurs now with alt-season gaining momentum. The SBD is already back over $4....
For me, it's critical that the platform stable coin is actually.....stable. Otherwise nobody will use it for commerce and it becomes just another shitcoin with no use-case. As such, I'm happy to see you discussing it and providing some fresh ideas on the issues and problems. The only witness I've ever seen willing to give it a decent push is @reggaemuffin and he hasn't posted for 8 months. I sometimes could get engagement from @smooth on the topic but he hasn't commented on anything for 4 months.
Good luck man. I hope @blocktrades will step up and have a good crack at implementing this before it's too late because once the peg breaks upwards again it'll (again) be impossible to implement a fix.
I've proposed a method to improve the upward pegging without the risks of reverse conversion. It isn't perfect but it should be better than the status quo and may turn out to be sufficient, or evolve into something that is sufficient. I'm happy to entertain partial solutions when they have less or no risk of actually making matters worse, and particularly when we don't know that any other "solution" would actually be perfect either.
https://hive.blog/hbd/@smooth/request-for-comments-hbd-stabilization-dhf-proposal
Well I guess there's a need to weigh in all the responses about diverse ways to improve hive. That's why I think 2021 will be that year where that decisions will be finally made. Qudos to blocktrades. A professional response Indeed.
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https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@blocktrades/qmpdtx
Seems pretty non-committal. Once the peg breaks to the upside there won't be the political will amongst the witnesses to do anything about it (talk of crimping the SBD during its wild bull run in late 2017 was very unpopular)
The time to get it done is before the next pump, but any implementation sounds like its a pretty long way off. I'm expecting alt-crypto mania in the next 6 months or so if BTC keeps up this pace.
HBD going above $1 seems like a lot less of an issue than it almost always being below $1... often by more than 5%.
Stability is stability. A stablecoin that is not stable has no use case.
If you're referring to the price on coinmarketcap you should know that it's very easy to manipulate and never really accurate since most of the reported volume comes from 1 very unreliable exchange. More accurate prices come off our own internal market.
Besides, as long as we don't hit the haircut HBD is always convertible to $1 worth of HIVE.
I'm not sure the situation is the same as 2017. There was a big issue of the influence of Steemit
(not witnesses or stakeholders) being in control of development and the monetization of the web site, and their interests not necessarily being aligned with the stakeholders. Just about any (if not any) mechanism of implementing an upward peg in the presence of high demand is a direct positive for the value of HIVE, which is obviously of high interest to the voting stakeholders. While authors may not like the idea of crimping a wildly pumped reward coin, they're not, in general, the stakeholders or voters or witnesses.
Wait, so the Ninjamine wasn't destroyed yet?
As average user, most of this talk goes over my head, so I hope you high-level witnesses make a good judgment on the future of HIVE.
I totally relate to the part in which you talked about the "winners tilt." Very relatable!
Ouch!
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LEO is gonna damp so hard, it is vapor wear! lol
This is why the premine should have been burned:
https://twitter.com/Dalz19631657/status/1348041207444856833
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Yep, I 100% agree. Especially when you consider how funds in the DAO are being spent... ugh
Not a techy, read all post but most of it went over head.
I'd like to add a few things. We don't see any HBD pair with other cryptos on exchanges. We should pair it up with some stable coin like USDT or any other.
Also introducing HIVE/ETH pair would be great as we are also an alt coin, and this can also give some edge in entering or exiting into ETH market. What are your views about it? and how we can introduce HBD/USDT pair & HIVE?ETH pair on exchanges?.
Regards.
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Just for the record, I am also a Daniel but from the Biblical story about the lions den. I thought this would be the only bit of useful information I could add to this important discussion.
It's like the saying that says a lot of noise and few nuts, I personally prefer to see how things work out, I think that one way you can increase the price of the Hive or hbd is to do in hive what they did in steemit. forcing people to receive the rewards completely in HP and thus liquidate us so quickly made me persevere a little more courage. A few months ago a sbd was worth the same as a hbd but since they applied that policy at steemit a sbd costs approximately 3.2 HBD. It's hard but it's also a way to save the system.
What happened to you?
You learned from the bible, I can see that.
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