@jrcornel Being Flagged to Zero!

in LeoFinance3 months ago

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Haters gonna hate!

It's no secret that people around here loathe Steem. During the hostile takeover I personally advised @jrcornel to dump it all, but he wanted to hodl everything, wait and see. While I didn't agree with that decision, I did respect it. Holders gotta hold.

This guy was told in the comments to dump Bitcoin SV,
Like... why is holding such a big deal? HODL!

HODLing is a big deal!

Again, this is tribalism at its finest. We have our tribe, and we engage in toxic competitive zero-sum behavior, all the while justifying this as legitimate support for our team.

We win, you lose.

There are so many salty wounds out there when it comes to the Steem/Hive dynamic. Everyone is on the lookout to make sure no one is supporting Steem at Hive's expense: that's why @jrcornel is currently being flagged to zero.

@jrcornel blog content

Mostly focused on the speculative and financial side of the industry, @jrcornel writes multiple short posts a day about these topics. To some this is interpreted as reward pool abuse.

https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@jondoe/banks-are-the-biggest-criminals-out-there#@abh12345/re-jondoe-qp7lvf

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@jondoe

So @jrcornel entered into the LEO general chat the other day and someone asked him if @jondoe was his alt account. It is. There is a perception that Hive and LEO are being sold for Steem and that obviously ruffles a lot of feathers. That's not what's going on here.

@jrcornel is a heavy trader. He makes a lot of trades in all directions. Steem is an absolute cash cow right now because the value of SBD is so high. If he's farming anything, it's Steem. Hive has always been the network with the most long-term promise. We've have many many private Discord conversations to that effect over the last year. Still he likes to gamble, and he likes to yield farm. Let's be honest, who doesn't?

HODLER!

He holds at least 250k Hive and 37k LEO. We are at the foothills of a mega bull run. Is now really a good time to be flagging holders to zero? Personally I would say that now's actually a good time to give people some slack rather than tightening the belt, but that's just me. Trim the fat when it needs to be trimmed: the doomsday bear market of 2022.

Collateral Damage!

@sportsncoffee and @jrcornel once sent tokens to Bittrex using the same memo! That means they are the same person, right!? Add this innocent user to the list of needless collateral damage: downvoted to zero! Why follow up on these things when you can click a button to "handle it"?

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No dialog: Wolves attack!

So yeah I guess there really is no discussion here. No one will listen to @jrcornel's side of the story and apparently many have simply unfriended and ignored him on Discord. Seems childish to me but I make that claim with limited information.

Too many posts! Too much reward milking!

Here's the thing guys: proof-of-brain. The idea is that we reward posts that bring value to the network. This can run contrary to decentralization if certain accounts are posting a lot and getting votes. The solution? Don't upvote posts if you think they have little to no value. It's not hard. If they do have value don't complain that some users bring more value than others. Welcome to the real world.

To an extent this is also more of a networking issue than one of value generation.

I have personally advised @jrcornel to try and write less posts that will subjectively be regarded as being "higher value" at least till this little feud blows over. Wouldn't want to have another @kingscrown on our hands.

Conclusion

I wrote this unsolicited. Looking at my Discord DMs, @jrcornel is probably the person I talk to the most on private channels (interestingly enough). We have a lot to talk about. Crypto and finance are very interesting and exploding with data.

With all this being said, @jrcornel is a net gain for the platform, and flagging him to zero is overall detrimental to both Hive and LEO. Yeah, I get that posting so often and holding a lot of Steem can be extremely triggering, but at the same time is it really so much to ask to start a conversation before moving in guns-a-blazing?

The Hive/LEO police got a little carried away with this one, as is often the case. On a certain level everyone knows that flagging all posts for the last week to zero over a reward disagreement is extreme at best. Chill out a bit.

He's taking a big risk holding Steem.
He's taking a big risk holding Hive.
He's taking a big risk holding LEO.
Gamble Gamble.

Certainly I can't force anyone to do anything, but I just thought this issue should be brought to light a bit. Time is the great equalizer, and these things usually have a way of working themselves out eventually. Feel free to add any more information in the comments below. Deuces!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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I was wrong about the dumping HIVE for STEEM.

The dude running (at least) jrcornel and jondoe is using jondoe for Steem and jrcornel for Hive. The separation of these accounts was made to circumvent what @yabapmatt mentions:

It's absolutely unconscionable and unforgivable and it reflects very poorly on anyone who uses it knowing what happened.

I mean, what the hell is going on here?

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Tipping himself from bittrex (which jondoe never sends to prior to encrypted memo's) to make it look like 2 people?


I would fully expect to be downvoted/shamed here if I was posting on a chain owned by people who had stolen funds from people I've met in person.

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For the record, I am not selling HIVE/LEO for STEEM. I was moving HIVE from my jondoe account to my jrcornel account and I was moving STEEM from my jrcornel account to my jondoe account. It is correct that I did not publicly disclose that this was also my account as I have seen many others with alt accounts not disclose them as well. However, I did admit that it was my account when directly asked. When jd started becoming a higher earner along with jrcornel I should have stopped posting from it, I apologize for that. Sportsncoffee is absolutely not one of my accounts and is a friend of mine I have been helping on here for many years.

Apology not accepted. Go farm steem.

Doesn't change the fact that you are a milking dude, spinner of internet content and optimizer. Feel free to post if you wish, but don't expect any rewards in hive.

Said the dick.

BTW, were you looking in the mirror as you wrote? Just who are you and where do you get off? I'm curious.

!popcorn

As said i enjoy reading / skimming your blogs - keeps me up to date on what's going on without having to look elsewhere. hope you stick around.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hey man. If that is the case I'll upvote the fuck out of you. Better yet bring some STEEM market cap over here.. Sun yuchen can afford to pump your bags as you do it. :P

The earning HIVE to buy STEEM is kind of a red herring anyhow, as is how he spends his tokens in general. My issue is his slowwalker style pay yourself with alts schtick, which he obviously went to a lot of effort to conceal. Keep in mind, this is the same person who would drop 100% upvotes on his 3-word comments, right before the timer expired. When called out after the whole 'new steem' thing he switched to trading votes--whatever. Fast forward to now, getting 40-50 bucks for 400-word commentary posts just wasn't enough for him. It's a slap in the face to those with significantly less stake putting in the work. Zero sympathy, I don't care who he chats with on discord.

Any small account doing this would have been righteously chased off and blacklisted. I will not support a 2-tier system of acceptable behavior. I don't care how much stake you have.

the whole point of this place is you can do what you want and say what you want. Its a blank canvas you choose what you do with it, just like life itself. This is a community but if its a small one of playing by the rules of said community, its cult like and toxic and nothing but a circle jerk. I prefer the freedom, non governance, anarchy that this place has to offer, the way nature intended. The only thing this place needs from us is nurture.

the whole point of this place is you can do what you want and say what you want.

I disagree, the point is community governance.

I prefer the freedom, non governance, anarchy that this place has to offer, the way nature intended.

Your preference doesn't really fit the tech. Instead of communicating on a public database and rewarding people with public funds, it would appear that end-to-end encryption is more your speed.

In a way i suppose your right in that the upvote downvote button is by nature community governance. The same as reddit i suppose. I still think it creates only toxic communities though, humans are awful for bullying and squabbling. I Hope LEOs twitter is more of a free for all in that sense. Not sure i like the downvote button really i never use it and probably never will.

Hive has actually been very good compared to STEEM. The abuse is minor. I hadn't used any downvotes in months until now.

The downvotes can be very toxic and bad in the wrong hands and used for the wrong reasons, that's why there's only 25% mana to them so people can counter those being used wrongly. The bad actors will quickly stop using downvotes once it starts eating at their upvote mana (potential curation rewards) and if there's a lot of countering and backlash from upvoters disagreeing with the downvotes even if it means they get less curation returns from countering. In this case here it seems well deserved if someone for years has been tricking people into voting up a secret alt instead of disclosing it was his to begin with.

Seriously?

You're a laugh.

Yeah cause I'm the one that made himself look like an utter fool and desperately tried to get everyone's attention through mass tagging and exaggerating what the deserved downvotes were like. Enjoy being irrelevant in the future of Hive, loser. I feel for anyone that has had the bad luck to be in contact with you in real life.

Your stupidity is a crime against humanity.

Come on guys chill. I dont see what the problem is with Jrcornel. I thought his stuff was ok, if he wants to sell his Hive and buy Steem or whatever it is your all bitching about then thats his choice. Financial decisions are personal and in all honesty Steem has showed itself to be the better choice so far even if the place fell apart. I mean lets face it Justin Sun took the brunt of the abuse for what Ned did wrong really in selling his shady pre mine. Justin showed he had no intention of taking over Steem and making it Tron. He added Tron payments to the system and thats about it. So he acted childish in retaliation or at least the Korean gang did in cutting out certain people but ultimately those same people were talking about doing some nasty shit to Justin Sun. No one is right no one is wrong, your all as bad as each other when you choose to fight.

You've said that how many times already? Go back to your script and see if you've got something else to try.

The desperate fools are those trying to convince themselves that they have done no wrong. What do they call it when you keep doing the same things over and over with the same terrible results? Google it. It'll be a learning experience.

Like I told one of your two-faced fake friends: you're better off just shutting up and hoping . . .

Schumck.

I just wanted to make sure you saw what one of those fine individuals replying to you had to say in another part of this now extensive thread.

Because not only was that said that about him (and, I might add, it's very representative of the group think of those involved, too), but it was also said about everyone who valued, curated and upvoted his content.

Yes, that’s how they feel about you too.

Best Regards

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Hive logic: @jrcornel = important; @coruscate, @cryptofinally, @cryptowendyo = not important.

And they wonder why people think this place is shit. They still put the early benefactors of @ned's fuckery on a pedestal.

Being a fully anon personality with mediocre hive-exclusive content and a large stake isn't nearly as valuable as some people assume. Perhaps that's counterintuitive.

...the entire ecossytem is one of alts and 'behind the scenes' shenanigans...
cornel might be one copping for it now, but to think that it doesn't go on - and on a very gig scale - is naive (I'm not calling you naive).
...if you think about it, the 'guaranteed' curation trials and circle jerking is, pretty much, the same as self upvoting...

I would say the system is broken but that would imply that it was , at one time, not broken.

...the entire ecossytem is one of alts and 'behind the scenes' shenanigans...
cornel might be one copping for it now, but to think that it doesn't go on - and on a very gig scale - is naive (I'm not calling you naive).

No doubt true, but is the answer to do nothing?

Here's the result of doing nothing:

https://steempeak.com/@wisdomandjustice/posts
https://steempeak.com/@oldstone/posts
https://steempeak.com/@photoholic/posts

I would say the system is broken but that would imply that it was , at one time, not broken.

Perhaps that is so, but we must work with its constraints. There are alternatives with other constraints for people to choose from, or the constraints can be changed with enough support.

Community governance was the philosophy of the majority of stakeholders supporting the fork over from STEEM. It was in losing the ability to govern on STEEM that we have a HIVE blockchain at all.

No doubt true, but is the answer to do nothing?

The answers start with asking the right questions.

Perhaps that is so, but we must work with its constraints. There are alternatives with other constraints for people to choose from, or the constraints can be changed with enough support.
The continual problem that's never been addressed.
Those that can change anything have no (short term) incentive to do so.
The governance structure has not changed...
...Nor will it, not without real incentives to do so.

It was in losing the ability to govern on STEEM that we have a HIVE blockchain at all.

Are you sure that's the whole reason, or is that propaganda issued from people with their own (non altruistic) agenda's?
That isn't a criticism of it, btw - just trying to be objective - and not emotional - about it.

And this part - here - is me being critical about it...
Oligarchs are gonna oligarch. One part of the characteristics of an oligarchy, is maintaining the status quo
.
Maintaining the status quo will be the number one reason for the demise of this platform.
They never endure.
*I'm only look at it from a social media perspective - not a financial product, tech development, etc..

Take a look at how @smooth has "concealed", if you want to call it that. And that's just to get started. If you wanted, you could spend half a lifetime tracing everyone's funds.

I consider it to be a matter of personal privacy, and here we are policing individual privacy (and property for that matter) - the very lot of us who "champion" the private nature of crytpo.

I detect a lot of jealously as well.

The downvote has got to be eliminated, or else this platform will degenerate into a miserable circle jerk.

BTW, you'd be getting my full upvote on all your Dbuzz posts if you'd just raise your payout cap a bit. It's not quantity, it's quality that matters. 😉 Not going to upvote you if it's nulled though. Defeats the purpose, you know - we're supposed to be mining.

Also, I give out full upvotes because I don't have the time to spend trying to find more quality content.

There are many anonymous people on Hive, myself included. If I were to selfvote and votetrade and vote on alts with all the VP in my disposal I'd fully expect the community to cancel me. Remember we share the same reward pool and especially people as big as him should look for new authors and smaller accounts to support to grow this place instead of thinking of himself all the time. The curation rewards should be enough at this point for accounts of that size instead of also maximizing author rewards in every way he can and doing the whole platform and it's future a disservice.

This is exactly why the free downvotes were introduced and they're working as intended and why Steem for the longest time was a literal circlejerk by most users and distribution sucked.

Also, I give out full upvotes because I don't have the time to spend trying to find more quality content.

Then join a curation trail.

I prefer to manually curate, and I choose to give out nice rewards, even though I know that is frowned on.

I would like to see the evidence on the @jrcornel selfvoting and votetrading and votes on alts.

Oh, and then I'd just love to see the same on the dozens, if not scores, of people who are really doing it!

It doesn't take that much to document and sustain this kind of argument, and the fact that it hasn't been done is very telling, as well as is the fact that it can easily be done with others.

Don't worry about me though. I'll never stoop to such lows. I'm simply out of here. It's been real.

Not sure why this is something that would make you "get out", I wish more people would see this as him having attacked Hive and its proof of brain for years instead of the community attacking him back for 1 day after it's been revealed what he's been up to.

Prove it and give him his rightful say, and I'll stay.

Ait well that sounds pretty shortsighted in my view, there's plenty of reasons to be on Hive and continue posting, even if your rewards are being downvoted for one reason or another.

Yeah . . .

. . . if only this were an isolated incident and the opinions expressed and actions taken were anomalies.

And all the while everyone continues to defend downvoting, the instrument that makes all this possible!

What does that tell you about the community?

Just incredible.

Simply nuts.

I thought the proof @abh12345 posted was plenty, changing owner keys on both accounts around the same time, same bittrex memo's until they figured out how to use encrypted memo's, etc. I'm sure he's not the only one and there's many others, it's not difficult to conceal this activity, it's difficult to keep it up for a long time without making mistakes that bring it to light.

This from the body of this post:

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And what he says here is exactly in line with what I know about him: https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@jrcornel/qpf6px

But nobody gives a shit about what he has to say.

This is all so fucked up! And it seems to be a majority attitude. Not a place where someone like myself wants to be.

Why is this fucked up? It's the community protecting the place, if they're wrong then it'll get fixed. I was under the impression he had come clean and admitted it was his secret alt.

You were under the impression . . .

And I continue to ask of the attackers that they provide evidence for their accusations. Now you understand why. Or is an "impression" enough to lynch someone?

You now see that he denies it all . . .

Fucked up? What would you call it? It looks like the KKK in full gear, just with 21st century clothes. If that's what you call the "community protecting the place", then you've done no more than give me more reason to get out, like at top speed!

FWIW if it's just one bittrex transfer that shouldn't count as proof, I have many times had people send to my exchange deposits and I've sent to theirs so I imagine that's something common.

Please don't let the door slam behind ya @cryptographic

Tagging you, because you like to tag The Whole World!

No need to tag when it's a direct reply, you knucklehead.

Hope that doesn't trigger you too much. Had a couple of beers. It's Saturday, you know? It's called life beyond HIVE. lol

Time to chill. You're late to the game.

Guess you've still got time for brownie points though. ROTFLMAO

You guys are too much. Lose like good losers. I'm done with you.

A freethinking army of ONE! Enjoy your beer! Asshole!

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Something I can say to you that isn't an insult but is totally true? With 100% accuracy? You're a loser and that's a simple fact.

And everbody knows it but you! 😂

First let me say I don’t give a damn about you being the least bit bothered by this tag. Anyone who complains about this tag is only showing the rest of the world the total disdain they have for HIVE. Yes you heard me right, for HIVE. Because if this is a bother, the heart and soul of your project, then you’d better start thinking about something else.


Look at the comment I’m responding to and tell me that this individual isn’t @ranchorelaxo, @bdvoter and @haejin all rolled up in one.


You people are pathetic.

You want to survive . . . haven’t you seen it enough times already? Get rid of downvoting now!

And take a deep breath if being tagged has bothered you so much.

Be thankful that I’ve addressed you in this semi-private way.

Do you have to spoon feed everyone all the time?

On top of it all, you’re a bunch of ingrates too?

cc: @blocktrades @gtg @roelandp @good-karma @ausbitbank @steempress @anyx @steempeak @yabapmatt @pharesim @therealwolf @someguy123 @arcange @stoodkev @followbtcnews @emrebeyler @abit @ocd-witness @cervantes @aggroed @drakos @lukestokes.mhth @curie @quochuy @smooth.witness @mahdiyari @jesta @timcliff @leofinance @pfunk @holger80 @guiltyparties @threespeak @thecryptodrive @liondani @bhuz @deathwing @neoxian @actifit @engrave @steemitboard @jackmiller @klye @oflyhigh @bobinson @roomservice @innerhive @patrice @c0ff33a @kevinwong @enginewitty @fbslo @stem.witness @qurator @firepower @r0nd0n @nathanmars @ura-soul @apshamilton @dbuzz @bdcommunity @crowdwitness @cryptobrewmaster @hextech @dragosroua @satren @busy.witness @rotfl @cadawg @discovery-it @complexring @blue-witness @aizensou @b0y2k @steemychicken1 @blockbrothers @isnochys @fernandosoder @silversteem @reazuliqbal @tazi @cervisia @primersion @fyrst-witness @mintrawa @helo @furion @dmitrydao @jamzed @hagie @kristall97 @elindos @lootkit.witness @whiterosecoffee @veteranforcrypto @dpoll.witness @weedcash.network @pcste

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Personally, I feel downvotes have a place, though, some are abused. When it comes to things like plagiarism or hatespeech - they are necessity. Differences of opinion is another story, as is reward dispute. But, I hear Blurt and Whaleshares are doing great if you wanna check out what no flags looks like?

You can't compare apples to oranges. Eliminating downvotes has to be inextricably tied to forgetting about the scammers completely and focusing only on the positive.

Imagine what Twitter would look like if everyone was obsessed with who was getting the most Likes. Well, there are, but they don't get any attention. But once you start telling them you're going to give them downvotes, look out!

You want people to focus on the positive, on real quality content, only give them positive tools. And who cares what a couple of chumps want to to with vote trading! What's more, if they've invested their own hard earned money and that's what they want to do, what's the problem with letting them do that? In their own corner where nobody sees them or cares about them while the rest of the community grows in the positive? But noooooo. They're "raping the rewards pool".

How stupidly childish can you get?

Several things here, first of all your stake is delegated to you. You don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in any of this stuff, so it's not quite the same. Also, you ARE actually selling HIVE!

Moving past all of that, if there is a set of established rules and expectations for everyone I would be happy to abide by them. As far as I can see, many people have alts, many people have steem, many people are cross posting on steem, many people tend to vote their friends on here, many people have alts that aren't publicly disclosed, several people are posting as much or more than I am (included with an alt) that are earning significantly more than I am/was.... if we want to impose some general rules, so be it and I would be happy to abide by them but thus far that hasn't really been the case.

So just because I don't have money invested (to your knowledge) I'm not allowed to voice my opinion on how people should and shouldn't abuse the reward pool?

Also, you ARE actually selling HIVE!

Yes, and buying too. I didn't comment on what you're doing with your Hive, my schtick was with your secret alt you were self-voting and getting a lot of rewards on on a daily basis along with your main. I'm not the one that's been secretly building an alt to get more out of the rewardspool. last time I had an interaction with you was due to excessive votetrading after the EIP when we were trying to break that off, you along with some korean stakeholders and sweeetssj.

I think it should be pretty obvious by now that the one freedom hive gives people, which voice.com didn't, is a pretty big no-no to abuse to have a secret alt you can earn more daily post rewards from compared to everyone else.

Feel free to name other people's undisclosed alts if that's who you compare your actions to justify yours to.

I'm not justifying anything, I'm simply pointing out that not everyone seems to have the same rules. Some can post from alts, some can't. Some can cross-post, some can't. Some can vote for their friends, some can't Etc Etc Etc. And I gladly said that I would stop posting from an alt account if that was the issue here.

It's not the same when you say you'll "gladly" do this and that after you get found out and have to admit to an alt. The trust is gone. Of course if you're a bigger stakeholder and raking in more rewards than 99% of the rest you have more eyes on you and more to lose and obviously the downvoters are reacting more strongly to it cause of that.

I have nothing to gain from voicing my opinion in this thread and only possible witness votes to lose which I'm seeing go already. It's disappointing if one stakeholder has been using more than one account to get more rewards than other users. You can maybe understand it coming from a curator who's focused on a healthy distribution that it's not helping if you're earning this much more than others who may put in the same amount of time and also investment into their accounts. FWIW I don't even post often because of massive autovotes, look at my recent post and often if it's not directly to leofinance I use @reward.app to send author rewards back to curators on posts that don't have a lot of effort on for a fair reward distribution in my eyes. How do you think that makes me and others feel knowing you're not only welcoming the autovotes (who often are constantly from the same people you also autovote) and as a big stakeholder also self-voting, but also raising another secret alt account to possibly do the same and self-voting those posts too.

What do you have to say to the people who were supporting both accounts who had no idea it was you and voiced their opinion on it and that they are disappointed. Go reply to them.

And lastly, what was stopping you from doing 2 posts per day on your main account instead of 50% here and 50% there if it wasn't to allocate more selfvotes to yourself without looking like they are selfvotes.

Come on, man. At what point will you feel like you're making enough rewards, aren't you a big shot trader as @edicted mentioned in the post? Do you really need to stoop down to these levels just for that increased APY on Hive and the other chains?

Something else I can also say with 100% certainty is that you are pathetic. It's certified.

You need to give up Twitter too. You give the impression that HIVE is for idiots.

If you have evidence of abuse, please post it here: https://discord.gg/yfd95Sy.

I hope to see this resolved amicably.
A 'go forth, and sin no more' kind of thing.

Take a look at how @smooth has "concealed", if you want to call it that. And that's just to get started. If you wanted, you could spend half a lifetime tracing everyone's funds.

I know he has multiple accounts, as do I. That was never the issue. Beyond that you'd have to elaborate.

I consider it to be a matter of personal privacy, and here we are policing individual privacy (and property for that matter) - the very lot of us who "champion" the private nature of crytpo.

The reward pool is a public commons allocated by votes, the blockchain is a public content database. When competing for either finite resource publicly, that is the blockchain itself, and rewards, you are in fact NOT entitled to privacy, and pending rewards ARE NOT your property. You want assured privacy, there are other blockchains for that.

I detect a lot of jealously as well.

From whom, from me? Of what? His prose? His wallet?

The downvote has got to be eliminated, or else this platform will degenerate into a miserable circle jerk.

I think the opposite is true. Want proof? Downvoting and community policing has been what has eliminated much of that activity. I invite you to look at STEEM (https://steempeak.com/@wisdomandjustice). That being said, Blurt is waiting for you with open arms if you seek a version of the blockchain that has no downvotes.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here as justification for this treatment of a HIVE member. Could you tell me exactly why you think @jrcornel deserves to be treated this way? What exactly did he do and what is the evidence you have to show?

It's an important question for all those currently here and those who may be interested in HIVE. Just what are the rules you go by? What could cause this kind of wrath to fall on someone?

Those are fair enough questions, don't you think? Wouldn't you like to know before playing?

Of course, as you know, 'the rules are capricious and we make them up as we go according to how we feel and who's on the recieving end' answer won't get many new players.

HIVE member indeed. He has a long history of milking rewards and manipulation that I and others have directly observed, and he has be 'treated this way' in the past for it and openly atoned for his actions. I thought he had changed his ways as I suspect others had as well, but he had only changed his tactics. He hasn't been on anyone's radar for months, which I believe is why the response was so strong and swift. People felt betrayed.

Those are fair enough questions, don't you think? Wouldn't you like to know before playing?

With all due respect, as a sovereign entity and stakeholder here, why do I owe you any explanation or proof? Why do you feel entitled to them? I am merely acting within the constraints of the system as is my right, as you've implied he has. Why do rights only flow in a single direction for you?

Of course, as you know, 'the rules are capricious and we make them up as we go according to how we feel and who's on the recieving end' answer won't get many new players.

I agree, community governance can be capricious. It's an attention economy. Who receives attention (reward or otherwise) at any given time can be capricious.

why do I owe you any explanation or proof?

Because you, and your friends, are acting like god. Okay, let's just say HIVE Gods. lol

In case you haven't heard, in free and open societies, the burden of proof is the accuser's responsibility. You only get to be judge, jury and executioner without proof in China.

Think about it. Think about how you got to the point where you asked me that question.

Doesn't jibe at all with things we've talked about in the past. Great experience for you though - it's a very short and slippery distance from one side of the divide to the other. It also serves as a reflection point: now you can more easily put yourself in their shoes.

Cheers, and take care.

The proof has been shared. He has multiple accounts he upvotes himself with. Perhaps that's okay in your opinion, more power to you. Opinions here are shared with votes. If the ledger was weighted towards your opinion, obviously his posts would have a non-zero payout. You happen to fall into the minority. This is the system within which you exist. As I've said, the good news is it's voluntary. Would I be sad to see you go? Yes. On some level I'm disappointed to see @jrcornel go too.

As far as @jrcornel is concerned, if the message was received loud and clear and he stopped self-voting multiple alts, he would go back to not existing in my eyes. But my vote is what, 3 bucks.

As it stands HIVE is barely a single digit percent of my crypto portfolio and creates a disproportionate amount of drama. I think it's sad and pathetic for people with significant stake to go through so much effort to suck rewards away from the pool at the expense of everyone else.

!popcorn

I agree downvoting isn't really appropriate in this instance, but for me personally I don't want to support (upvote) anyone who supports Steem in any way. That includes buying/holding the STEEM token, or using the Steem platform. I understand it can be a "cash cow", and if people want to take advantage of that that's up to them, but I won't support them.

This isn't simply an issue of blockchain tribalism. The Steem community/leadership literally stole millions of dollars from people because they didn't like them. It's absolutely unconscionable and unforgivable and it reflects very poorly on anyone who uses it knowing what happened.

This is the thing too - many of the people who have supported jrcornel since the start, had their Steem stolen - yet it seems to have had no impact on him at all. You would think he would have had some limits considering that they had supported him for so long - but greed knows no bounds.

So you are the person to punish him? (Your name was dropped in the comments of his last post as one of the principles to speak to regarding why this is being done to @jrcornel - if you're not aware that others are dropping your name like that, take a look.)

Punish? He is not being punished. Downvotes are about rewards on the post and as a stakeholder on the platform, I like all others are entitled to use them to direct the inflation pool. Jrcornel has been using his stake to direct the inflation pool to himself for years, while masking the way he does it so other stakeholders support him too.

Now that stakeholders know (and they don't all know yet), they are able to make decisions on better information. If they truly think that what he offers has more value that what he extracts and they are okay with that, they are welcome to upvote. I however, do not believe that it is the case.

"Stay informed"

Okay, so if you think the end result of this is not "punishment", I guess we can leave things at that.

By the way, I remember when @jrcornel was making next to nothing. He's earned every penny of what he's done, and has every right to continue contributing. Spewing out unfounded accusations don't help your case. Perhaps you'll start putting together the documentation to back your claims and justify your punishing him for all those sins . . . oh, but I forgot, you're not punishing.

Just what would you call it?

Spewing out unfounded accusations don't help your case. Perhaps you'll start putting together the documentation to back your claims and justify your punishing him for all those sins . .

Have you the inability to read properly?

These are not unfounded accusations and he has admitted to them in discord. Rather than apologizing and changing his ways, he went straight for the powerdown button, after using the majority of that power to increase his own stake for years on end, through comment voting and farming and multiple alt accounts.

Not only this, he crossposts onto a chain that literally stole millions of dollars from the people who have upvoted him for all of these years for him to earn the stake that he uses to support himself. Crossposting onto Steem, where Steem has user authority means that his posts their rank higher in search engines than Hive, as they have canonical.

do your research yourself.

I'm on HIVE, not Discord. This is HIVE, not Discord.

On HIVE, he has denied your accusations. On HIVE, you haven't listened to him. Your friends limit themselves to calling him a "moron".

That's what I've read on HIVE, which is where we are, and again, where none of your supposed evidence, and "confessions", exist to the best of my knowledge.

Shall we give a name to what you and your small group of friends are doing? Would "inquisition " be appropriate?

Prove me wrong.

You seem to have very little understanding - which surprises me considering your name.

"By the way, I remember when @jrcornel was making next to nothing. He's earned every penny of what he's done, and has every right to continue contributing."

I think your history is a little revised. I remember a jrcornel that spammed comment sections asking for support. I also remember a jrcornel that just happened to join a little group of people that convinced Ned to delegate his 5 million Steem Power to them so that they could enrich themselves under the guise of "quality content" and "curation" and "user retention."

Very few of the pennies he made were "earned."

I've got receipts if you want them.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

how about people who invested in Steem that have lost a lot of money, and want to HODL until the death or break even? This is my situation and whilst im HODLing i might as well use my stake and put it to good use. Im a betting man and i bet and predicted months ago that Steem price will pump this year and ill look for an exit. It looks right on course to me, decent volume, holding close to 50 cents and SBD pumping like crazy. It looks healthy, unlike Steem itself. Hive is healthy, the price and volume garbage. Go figure.

Agree with this, you can actually stop voting him but the flags aren't necessary imo.

And nobody suggests you should support anyone you don't feel comfortable supporting.

But moving from that to forcing others to do as you would is another thing entirely.

This is very bad for HIVE. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, nor to see that downvoting needs to be eliminated - there will always be bullies and abusers, and if you give them the tool . . .

I see you consistently upvoted @jrcornel, giving the impression that you valued his content. As you know, this group action, based on their own selective criteria which they know not how to express, has downvoted him to zero and basically ruined his existence here on HIVE. As such, I just wanted you to know what one core member of this community had to say about @jrcornel and ask if you still think it’s appropriate not to come to his defence? Really come your own defence? Because not only was that said about him (and it's very representative of the group think, I might add), but it was also said about everyone who valued, curated and upvoted his content.

Yes, that’s how they feel about you too.

Best Regards

TotalDisrespect.jpg

Not sure what I have to come to my defense for. Yes, I do like @jrcornel's work, but I don't want to support someone who supports Steem. That's all there is to it. It's just like if there was an artist or actor whose work I like but who supports something or does something that I am against, then I may choose not to support them and buy their work.

I stated in my original reply that I don't personally think he should be downvoted, but I don't see anything wrong with choosing not to support someone who supports an organization that stole millions of dollars from people I am close to (among other things).

That's so weak. "Someone who supports Steem." Even if it were true, it's weak. And when you hide behind something that is total hearsay, it's worse than weak. I know you've got a brain, and I'll leave it to you to self-classify.

On the other hand, you ask what you need to self-defend . . .

Good luck.

It's not hearsay, he's confirmed that he holds a significant amount of STEEM and uses the platform, which helps to support it. You may think that is "weak", and you're more than welcome to support him or whoever else you want. I don't see why my decision to stop supporting him is really any concern of yours anyway.

Okay, now that you've decided to play cop, judge and executioner, and the crime is "supporting STEEM", here's a couple of names for you to treat the same, that are just as guilty of the same, that is unless you are inconsistent, weak, and totally lame. Let's see what you're really made of. My money's not on you. ;-(

@arizcon and his alter-egos: @ranchorelaxo, @bdvoter and @haejin

Have fun tough guy.

NOT.

WEAK. LAME Fuck. You know it. That's what's important.

------------ o ------------

I don't see why my decision to stop supporting him is really any concern of yours anyway.

Oh, uh, duh, it's that word "community" that you and your pals throw around, by the looks of things, quite loosely.

You must be feeling so incredibly strong . . .

If you don't know how to do the right thing, the best thing is to just shut up and hope . . .

Lol, now I know you're totally nuts. I'm "cop, judge, and executioner" because I stopped upvoting someone's posts? I never said it was a crime to support Steem, just that I won't support those who choose to. And yes, I will definitely stop supporting anyone else who I currently support via upvotes if I find out they are also supporting Steem. I don't upvote or support any of those accounts you tagged.

You seem to be freaking out, calling me names, and acting like a child, because I stopped upvoting someone. Pretty pathetic. I can see from your other comments that you're just one of these nuts and there's no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with you.

Go ahead and post your next ridiculous reply since I know you need to have the last word.

You are an active part of the ruining of someone's blogging on HIVE.



Did you get that already?

Whether you want to admit it or not.

Like I said, you'd be better served shutting up.

And yes, I will definitely stop supporting anyone else who I currently support via upvotes if I find out they are also supporting Steem.

I just gave you their names. How lame can you get?

At least my characterizations are accurate and fit the facts.

And, no I don't need to have the last word; you're totally free to completely melt down now.

Edit: I forgot to add to have fun building for a niche market . . . you can imagine what your niche is going to be, right?

A name to add: the 2nd part of that Dynamic Duo you do support.

acidyo-azircon.jpg

Pathetic. That's the adjective that most appropriately describes HIVE's current leadership. Simply pathetic.

And don't get me going. Think about all those other things we could talk about that takes us to that same destination . . .

. . . but if you were to start somewhere, I guess getting some basic dignity might be just about the best place ever.

Good luck.

I'm not convinced johndoe is anything other than an alt account, the styles are both pretty similar despite what JR says on his JR discord private account.

The problem is he's got no way of proving it.

I never thought his content was that interesting TBH, more relentless - he's one of the few people i've muted because I've long thought he's over rewarded and didn't need to keep seeing it.

The tribalism does feel a bit odd in this age of cross-chain compatibility - but the whole Steem thing is deeply problematic in particular - given that posting to that chain is legitimising a centralised entity under the control of someone who has proved themselves to be a malicious actor.

My view is that anyone supporting that chain (NB I do buy the JD is his alt account (JC, JD, even the initials are similar) is undermining the security of this chain by giving more money and power to one of the primary threats to it - namely Justin Sun, which makes 'nuking' their rewards on here legit.

I do take your point about lack of dialogue, there is a distressing lack of that, but I think JC hit that PD button a bit too fast.

Let's not forget that it's only rewards we are talking about here - and he's clearly doing OK for himself. He could easily just carry on posting and earn a decent amount from curation.

Also, an upside to all this - now the Drama has started that's as clear a sign as any that Hive moon is just around the corner!

As I've said to you before. I'm not selling HIVE/LEO to buy STEEM. I've been powering it up for many months. I was moving steem from jrcornel to jondoe and moving hive from jondoe to jrcornel via Bittrex. If you look at the transfer sizes it clearly shows I was not dumping HIVE and LEO for STEEM. Yes JD is my alt account and perhaps I should have disclosed that it was mine long ago, though I have seen numerous people not disclose alt accounts, I didn't know that was a requirement like some are claiming. Sportsncoffee is absolutely not one of my accounts for the record.

I understand you, it's just painful to see the cross posting on Steem, especially with the size of your earnings, that's still a raw memory!

I never paid any attention of the Sportsncoffee thing btw, that's news to me.

cross posting on Steem

Yea I understand that to a degree. Though where do people think the value from that was ultimately going to flow? HIVE was my home...

I can't believe you have almost a half million STEEM. A token on an illegitimate, centralized stolen network run by scumbags and thieves. Scumbags and thieves that stole millions of dollars worth of token from the people that actually built it. What the fuck are you thinking?

If content would be exclusive here, I think it would value Hive more. From the points, people are here to read content from fav authors.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Well you could always just post exclusively to Hive and see what happens, I understand it might not be that great to be 'steered' into doing this (that might be a euphemistic way of putting it) but I doubt people on here will hodl grudges like they do Hive. I'm certainly not that way inclined.

I'm the first one to hold my hands up and say i've got a slightly retarded emotional investment in this place and distrust now of all things Steem.

!popcorn

After browsing over all this shit and getting tagged twice in this comment clusterfuck below it seems like the unpopular opinion here should probably be stated. Got nothing against jcornel, certainly won't flag him.. But I'd sure as hell prefer he go do this on blurt and not take from the HIVE market cap to add to the steem market cap.

We need hodlers, authors, influencers, and investors.

But, but; let chase them away- moar money for us.

Beyond stupid.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

...Never get between a nasgul the midwit, and his avarice...
(they have a meltdown)

'They' hate it when the laws 'they' create are used not as they intended.
The 'hate' is not because the law they made is shown to be a bag of shite - but because it illustrates their lack of intelligence to the rest of the world. (midwit, and weak ego seem to be synonymous).

Avarice definition: insatiable greed for riches, miserly desire to gain and hoard wealth.
(edit - known as hodlers in the crypto world - a new phenomenon of the 21st century, where the ability to spell incorrectly is seen as a mark of being clever).

I just did it, and in a big way.

Stay tuned. 😬

I will indeed, sir!
Kudos.

I think after years of circlejerking, comment vote farming and the like - this kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. What I find interesting is from what I have seen, there has been no apology or remorse, just blaming the likes of taskmaster posting a lot and me posting a lot when I started (and earned FA). Instead - full powerdown. I think that says a lot about what he thinks about the community - if the cash cow doesn't produce milk...

Ah, you are one of the "spam tags" kind of people.

There are plenty of things to read out there, it isn't my job to keep you informed. If you are interested in supporting him, you will find him over at Steem easily.

I think this is something that concerns us all. Don't you? Or is it that you are not so happy about this being public knowledge? Perhaps?

Are you rallying the soldiers to now go and downvote all my posts too?

I think this is something that concerns us all. Don't you? Are is it that you are not so happy about this being public knowledge? Perhaps?

I am more than happy.
These are some of the people who had 26 million Steem stolen from them -you know, the place that "jrcornel is supporting and powering up his alt to whale status?

@blocktrades @gtg @roelandp @good-karma @ausbitbank @steempress @anyx @steempeak @yabapmatt @pharesim @therealwolf @someguy123 @followbtcnews @emrebeyler @abit @ocd-witness @cervantes @aggroed @drakos

There are more in that list too.

I absolutely think they should know.

Right. And @jrcornel is responsible for that!

What you are doing is absolutely reprehensible, and I get the distinct impression that you not only know that, but are okay with it.

Have a good [low] life. You've demonstrated that you clearly deserve it.

are you one of jrcornel's alts?

Tiny ideas from a tiny mind.

And so predictable.

Expected it sooner though.

Wow, good luck everyone with building HIVE, what with the likes of folks like this . . .

 3 months ago 

Could you not tag me in stuff that has nothing to do with me. I'm not flagging jcornel ? Mass notification spam like this is likely to get you flagged

I think this concerns us all, but forgive me for including you. It wasn't my intent to unnecessarily bother anyone.

You are comparing "being lynched" to "not getting paid for blogging on a particular blockchain"

Get help. That's nasty and unnecessary. People are entitled to being alive. They're not entitled to profit from blogging

If you can't see or appreciate the harm you are doing, or just don't want to admit it, either way, you are the one who needs help.

Edit: Come to think about it, since it'll ultimately be "self-inflicted", I guess we'd better double that recommendation above.

The harm I'm doing by not giving people money for blogging? I'm under no obligation to give people money for blogging. Me not giving someone money for blogging is not a harm. Me not giving someone profit for blogging is not a sign that I need help.

Literally burning houses down is harm. Killing people is harm

Comparing those two things is senseless hyperbole. Anyone thinking they are comparable needs help

If you really believe in a blogger so much, send them a tip. Nobody can take their tips away. Nobody is entitled to profit from blogging

We all have equal, investment weighted pro-rated access to the rewards pool, as well as equal rights to be voted on and to claim the rewards due given those votes.

The downvoters, and those who support them, have STOLEN not only the author's rightful rewards, but ALSO the curators' rightful rewards!

Get a grip man. Do you have any idea about what we are supposedly doing here?

And that's not to mention the harm done to the victim's reputation (just in case you're not catching the entire drift, I'm not referring to the funny number) which, in this case, borders on character defamation.

And you're like, dude, what's the prob, telling me to get help?

We all have equal, investment weighted pro-rated access to the rewards pool, as well as equal rights to be voted on and to claim the rewards due given those votes

This includes upvotes AND downvotes. The two mix together and arrive at a conclusion

Nobody is entitled to get paid for blogging. Not paying someone for blogging isn't the same as committing violence against that person. Downvoting is not theft. Nobody is entitled to their rewards until they are paid out. Not your keys, not your crypto: if it isn't in your account, it isn't your money. If you think downvotes are theft, go use Blurt. They'll be happy to have you. Comparing downvotes to murdering someone is sick. The same happens on youtube... are you over on youtube telling everyone that downvotes something they are comparable to the KKK and murdering the person they've downvoted?

You haven't paid me for blogging - does that mean you're in the KKK? Are you lynching me by not ensuring my profit?

... If you think downvotes are theft, go use Blurt. They'll be happy to have you.

This alone deserves my full power UP, man