Embarrassing & Toxic HODL Culture Cult

in LeoFinance20 days ago

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Over the last couple days we've gotten some really embarrassing reminders about how ridiculous crypto HODLERS are. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

https://www.coindesk.com/tesla-sold-bitcoin-in-q1-for-proceeds-of-272m

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-26/musk-tesla-sold-bitcoin-to-prove-liquidity-as-cash-alternative

https://fortune.com/2021/04/27/elon-musk-tesla-bitcoin-sale-profit-liquidity-cash-alternative/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/tesla-buys-1point5-billion-in-bitcoin.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/04/27/bitcoin-price-rallies-after-tesla-billionaire-elon-musk-sparks-wild-speculation-hes-buying-bitcoin/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-bitcoin-bigger-moneymaker-in-first-quarter-than-cars/

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Greedy assholes need to shut up.

Elon Musk was forced to explain in detail multiple times why Tesla made the decision to take gains and sell 10% of their Bitcoin stack. Why? Because everyone and their mothers was flipping their shit about it.

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It was reported recently that Telsa took these gains in late march, so they may have been partially responsible for the dump down to $50k during that time. Pretty good return considering they bought between $30k-$40k. In fact, after this balancing of the books Telsa made more money on Bitcoin than they did selling cars... hilarious!

Not only is it funny but it's also just good for business and a great success story. The entire point of parking reserves in Bitcoin revolves around the idea that Bitcoin actually has the liquidity now to allow big stacks to move in and out of the market. This tale of success will only incentivize more big players to enter the market.

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BUT WEN THOUGH MEHHHHH!

And just like the greedy self-centered short-sighted cry-baby children that retail investors are, all they can think about are the losses they've sustained over the past week. It's absolutely pathetic and a clear indication of how we got into this mess in the first place. 90% of the population requires their overlords to coddle them like the infants they are: that's why they exist in the first place. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hive

Think this doesn't apply to other networks like Hive and elsewhere? It's ten times worse on Hive. People who power down are ten times more likely to be targeted by flags. In fact, downvotes are often the reason why people powerdown and leave in the first place.

The self-righteous Hive police run around here acting like they are bringing value to this place when really they just shit all over everything and wonder why they aren't getting the results they were looking for. Good job dipshits: you just stopped someone from "abusing" the reward pool for a couple thousand Hive and now they are going to powerdown and sell a couple hundred thousand tokens on the market. Smart move.

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Scarcity mindset

All of this toxic behavior is born from an extremist mindset rooted in scarcity. No matter how much people have it's never enough. When we watch other people sell we take that as a personal attack on our own bags. Spoiler alert: the entire purpose of currency is that you're allowed to spend it. Sit down and shut up already. If you can't handle the volatility of these lifeboats go back to your Titanic-slavemasters and beg them to take care of you, as you give away every last bit of your freedom for "security". I'm over it.

Conclusion

I hope that this problem will correct itself over time as crypto users become more and more wealthy, but somehow I doubt it. Greed is infinite. Ironically every single billionaire on the planet lives in scarcity: that's the only way to become a billionaire in the first place.

It becomes quite clear to me that we will need to focus on rewiring people's brains at a foundational level. This is why I make jokes about starting my own cult. Religion and spirituality can be used as a tool to create streamlined philosophies that make sense for the average person. Until then, I guess I'll just be spectating this shit-show while hoping people will figure it out themselves (they won't).

At the end of the day this all comes back to authoritarianism vs libertarianism. HODL culture is fine if you apply it to yourself and those who opt into that mindset. It's not okay for you to force that bullshit on other people and punish them for disobeying your rules. Get over yourself. End of story.

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Crypto "investors" will have mixed results. Good/experienced traders will have slightly better mixed results.

There are a few people on here who basically determine who they do and don't want on the platform by way of flags.

People use flags to assert their power and views, while acting like they are doing some kind of altruistic act, and balancing the reward pool. They claim that 'no one can be censored here, because blockchain' but effectively, censor people and make them leave, dumping everything as you mentioned.

I feel like there is almost never a good use for a flag. I use them extremely rarely. Maybe for blatant copy paste plagiarism, or extreme abuse.. But where do you draw the line. If you paid to be here, then you can game it however it is gameable.

It is up to developers to fix exploits. To me, flags themselves are exploited by the whales to destroy the less powerful.

yeah basically the hive police act like everything would break if flags didn't exist
all we have to do is apply that logic to defi and see how it fails spectacularly
no one complains about 100% "self-upvoting" on a defi farm because that's the entire point

As much as I hate to see whales throwing their weight around and smashing the little guys....they do have a point. Remember Whaleshares? The fork that had potential, but they had no flags and guys like Haejin just raped it to death. Remember Haejin? He's not here any more.....

I was against the free downvotes when it was proposed and implemented, but I've come around. Sure they can be mis-used but I do think the place is better for the change.

I highly doubt Whaleshares failed because they didn't have downvotes.
Many people just assume that is the case.

Again, compare it to DEFI.
Does DEFI fail because farmers don't share their rewards?
Of course not.

There is a very real chance that downvotes cause more harm than good.
Personally I was also against free downvotes and have since come around.
But we should aware that it could be far more damaging than we realize.

I was there for a while. I left because I could see Haejin quickly self-voting him into the #1 stakeholder position and a bunch of clowns were following suit with rubbish "placeholder" type posts.

Having participated and witnessed it all first hand, I'm pretty confident it was a major contributing factor. It certainly was the reason I left - I saw no future in it.

DEFI is a different model. The inflation model here is supposed to be distributed to people who add value to the platform with good content or whatever.

The inflation model here is supposed to be distributed to people who add value to the platform with good content or whatever.

Exactly, so it is simply a matter of perception that downvotes are important.
They aren't.

'Because the whitepaper said so' is not a good reason.

We could just as easily say, "Okay we're doing yield farming now!"
It wouldn't be a big deal.

If I was in charge around here I'm not sure if I would remove downvotes,
but I certainly would take a more aggressive stance against all the liberal downvotes from huge accounts.

It'd be a big deal for me and I'd be outta here pretty quick.

If I wanted to do yield farming I'd be doing it on STEEM or some other DEFI platform.

no one complains about 100% "self-upvoting" on a defi farm because that's the entire point

That's what I've been saying all along.

Why would anybody lock their stake away for weeks, making it nearly impossible to fully take advantage of bull-runs, just to "give back" to authors?

As sad as it sounds, current day Steem is far more lucrative to be powered up than Hive. Because 1.) overpriced SBD, 2.) TRX rewards, 3.) nobody gives a shit about self-voting aka yield-vote-farming and 4.) 4 week powerdown.

Yeah it's so easy to get all high and mighty and pronounce why Hive hasn't gotten back up into the top 100 market cap. At the end of the day that's all wild speculation. I think we just need to keep our heads down and keep building.

I patiently await the day that Steem's complete lack of development catches up to the network.

Yeah it's so easy to get all high and mighty and pronounce why Hive hasn't gotten back up into the top 100 market cap. At the end of the day that's all wild speculation.

Hive is not in top 100 because its use-case isn't clear, stakeholder/tokenholder incentives are outdated and core development focused on fixing tech debt/improving core code.

I know you play Starcraft so you're familiar with keeping the balance of building out your economy and building up your army/defence + putting out aggression against the enemy/ies. If you go full-on economy and your enemy goes aggressive, you're done.

In the case of Hive, we're not done, just lack behind any project that has A.) a clear use-case (Theta, Uniswap, Solana, Eth,...) or B.) uber-incentives for tokenholders (Any DeFi protocol) or C.) hype (Doge, Safemoon, Shib, ..)

I think we just need to keep our heads down and keep building.

Could be. Or we could also steer in the wrong direction. Difficult to say. Depends on how successful blocktrades' implementation of an SC-layer is and whether we'll be able to keep/get projects building on it.

I patiently await the day that Steem's complete lack of development catches up to the network.

Sadly, I don't think it will matter much unless we're talking uber long-term, similar to how BSC's lack of decentralisation doesn't hinder its growth so I don't think Steem's lack of development won't matter much within this bull-run.

good points.

I'm very curious to see how 2022 pans out.

some of those people are whales and are still around. they are a parasite. I dare not name them in my current state.

as for everything else I completely agree with you.

everyone is a whale. those that abuse the small fish fries from the top will get theirs one day from a whale that started from the bottom.

Self righteous hive police

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hmm... I wonder who that could be...

(at the dinner table)

Smart dip buyer that noone listens to: BTW that tomatoes can produce over hundred new seedlings and can...

everyone else: ITS MINE! (stabs with fork)

Take your portion and either eat it or plant again and give water. either way its back to business a usual.

Your spoiler alert had me rolling in laughter. much needed. thank you.

I don’t consider people who give a shit about the price as HODLr’s for me they just speculators and are trying to pump their bags to get fiat rich and Thays fine I don’t care

As a hodlers myself I only care about price drops rather than price increases and couldn’t care less how people spend their Bitcoin! For more of us to get our hands on it others have to sell

Eventually we all have our Bitcoin pizza moment we jusy don’t realise it ag the time! Today someoen buys a Tesla with his Bitcoin and will never own that same amount of Bitcoin again and that’s the fun part of this

We have to feel the consequences of our actions and since we come from a world that is so nerf’d by regulation people don’t know to deal with straight up market forces

Seriously good point on the Flags. That was one thing that drove me away 2 years ago was when I was getting flagged simply because someone didn't like my opinion about something. I mean talk about something demotivating after all the time, effort and money you pour into a system you believe in just to be flagged because you have a different opinion! Seems stupid AF to me and drives people away. If you don't agree or like something simply don't vote on it it's that simple to me flagging needs to be removed.

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Spot on, and all those actions are seen on the outside of the platform and prevents more people joining.

Hard Fork incoming will make it harder for dip shots to run around flagging accounts based in a God complex.

It's also important to note if you watch those gods they openly and carelessly breach their own rules and to a significant profit.

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 20 days ago 

Quality tirade, mate. Couldn't agree more.
Everyone who doesn't have my exact same priorities is a greedy, short sighted bastard.
Why hasn't my community grown?

BRAVO!!!

I see no drawback to Musk taking some profits and in fact it's all good with me. I just wish I'd had my many USDC in a lower yield fund, and ready to grab me some BTC now that it is down back to 48-49k at the bottom...

I still have a plan, and sticking to it, but this little dip caused to reallocate just a bit and it was sweet, I made some nice gains on the bounce!! Added some juicy DEFI ALTS that I needed more exposure into. 💪😎👍

Great article @edicted, sometimes I miss the old Steem Whales, they were dedicated hodlers until the greedy crybabies persuaded them to sell and then others (or some of the same?) cried that they were dumping and tanking the prices 😭😭😭 seems to me most of the authoritarian crybabies came over after @ned got tired of the BS too...

There are 2 sides to every story so I'm just trying to help you tell this side, from my perspective. The old whales and Ned were not perfect but they had some things right, I believe, and just said FUGGIT I'M TAKING SOME PROFITS WHILE I CAN AND GTFO of here!!

CHEERS, @edicted 🤣

I couldn't agree more, the toxic HODL at all cost culture is ridiculous. What's the point of any of this if you don't take some profits along the way.

I've pulled some profits out to fiat over the last few months, and my quality of life has been so much better for it. I'm almost debt free, have hardly any financial stress anymore, compared to just a couple of years ago when I was swimming in debt and stress.

Life for my family is better than ever thanks to a little profit taking, I have a hard time understanding people who don't.

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Yeah it's definitely a heated debate, and I have a hard time not agreeing with both sides on certain points. I do see a lot of abuse of the downvote, often with no explanation to allow the person to self correct. It's pushing quite a few of the independent journalists away, as people downvote them for getting auto upvotes by their supporters! Agree with them or not, they put in a lot of work on their videos, they have massive followings, and we should be working with them to bring their audience here, not punishing them.

At the same time, I am super glad to see less bots, less whale bullies, less whale abuses. For years I was on Steemit, but didn't promote it to anyone because I was embarrassed by a few members, who will remain un named cause i still fear being downvoted by them.

They key in my mind is to steer the narrative, change the culture, and lead by being more successful than the idiots. You've already been playing a big part in how I see Hive, so I feel you're on the right path! Eventually it will work itself out, perhaps with more forks, and learning of lessons from said forks. Or perhaps the answers will even come from a Tribe such as Leo, by simply doing it better, and Hive following suit!

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The hodler mentality is strong with Leo holders, I was expecting a significant amount to be powered down with the Cub project but nope...I am not seeing it. It's a cultish paradigm. I learned my lesson back in 2018. If I had sold near the top I would have had 10 or 20 times more Hive. Not happening again.

Personally, I am rebalancing my holdings and shifting my Leo stack to Cub. I am betting that I will be able to buy back with the farming rewards. So far, after 2 powerdowns with the drop in the Cub price plus, the transaction fees and the impermanent loss I am almost getting back the investment (in dollar terms). I just need Cub to stay above 3.15 and I am golden.

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There's a good chance you'll still get wrecked by not timing the peak correctly.
That being said you should do better than last time.

Money has more utility when it flows, so I think a HODLing culture is actually actively damaging to a small extent.

An reasonably priced Hive coin with loads of liquidity will stimulate development of new games on the platform, whereas a boom $20 Hive will most likely cause most active people to simply sell, the whole platform to be overtaken by greed, and several games being priced outside reasonable budget ranges.

So even though I hold Hive/LEO, I think people do well to sell if they feel it's overpriced!

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Life is a game. If you don't take risks then you don't receive a big reward. Being a rebel at the right time will give you great rewards. If you HODL when you should have sold you gain knowledge and can play the game better in the future....win win....enjoy the ride! Dont always be a sheep...

Thanks to reading your post I finally managed to get myself to look up HODL 🥳. I also realized how little I know about crypto. I burned some Hive lately as it was said to support scarcity and that it is a good thing for the token. Right?

Burning Hive does help the network: it redistributes that value back to everyone on the network. However, the burning should have a purpose. The most common reason to burn tokens is to promote posts on the trending tab.

If you don't burn tokens, they will end up in your wallet, which might be even better for the network than burning them. Increasing your own power and influence on the network can easily be more valuable than distributing that value back to the void (@null). The only requirement on that front is that you are more trustworthy and competent than the average Hive user.

As long as you hold your coins and don't dump them on an exchange this gives the same net gain as burning them in terms of scarcity. Again, it's possible that you personally having more power on the network is a bigger victory for all parties involved.

regardless scarcity, burned tokens are like lost tokens. So.....

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.
-Satoshi Nakamoto

tokens that get held are exactly the same
when you think about it very few coins are actually for sale on the books

Cool, thanks for this info :).

It was a "post" I didn't wanted to benefit from as it was just an expression of an emotion I had watching some news. I never expected it to go big but I thought burning the payout is better than keeping it.

I'm glad I learned how to convert HBD into Hive but that's about all I know what to do with my wallet, besides Powering up 😂.

I'm glad I learned how to convert HBD into Hive.

I hope you're selling it on the internal market instead of actually converting it.

https://wallet.hive.blog/market

When you convert HBD it takes 3.5 days and you only get $1 per HBD.
HBD is worth more than $1 so you should sell it on the market.

I may have used the wrong term. I just checked and saw that I did not converted it. I went to the market and bought Hive with HBD 😅 Ahhhh little toddler I am when it comes to that, thought it's the same lolcough cough

I never understood the flag wars that much and I don't really want to participate in them. As for my downvotes, they are currently only reserved for those phishing links. I don't like seeing them and they tend to be 1) hacked accounts or 2) newly created accounts for phishing.

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That and people randomly tag spamming a shitload of people or posts that make absolutely zero sense or also feel spammy.. Think I've used maybe 3 or 4 downvotes in total.

What's a flag though?

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flags are what downvotes used to be called.

Ahh gotcha, haven't been around long enough. Probably didn't miss much with these "flag wars" by the looks of it.

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Downvoting for a powerdown is ridiculous. There are a lot of reason to do so maybe I want to trade it and bring more money to the ecosystem. Shorter it looks bad but long term it’s for the good. However, if people jump on people that money will not flow back.

There are a lot of reason to do so maybe I want to trade it and bring more money to the ecosystem. Shorter it looks bad but long term it’s for the good. However, if people jump on people that money will not flow back.

Powering down doesn't have to equal selling; it's primarily about having liquidity in case of huge bull runs.

Exactly it’s not not a bad thing! I need to have more liquid that was my biggest problem in the last bull run. So I set a goal of 20k for this year and then start to build up that liquid stockpile.

Spoiler alert: the entire purpose of currency is that you're allowed to spend it.

Quote of the day.

Everything else is drama.

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Dude I'm so glad you're talking about it!
The Crypto Twitter yesterday was a mess! I was seeing a lot of tweets about Elon's paper hands and so on...
I was like wtf is their problem? What does it has to do with their hodlings anyway? And it was not even a 100% sell.
I'm a strong hodler, but I don't care what other's do with their bag.
As I always like to say, money is not an end, rather a means.

Great post. I didn't know about the Hive part of this.

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In fact, even in the fiat economy, money loses power faster than in the crypto economy. In fact, more companies are weakening the dollar, the euro and other currencies, this greedy attitude has been around for a long time and has unfortunately taken root in the crypto economy.

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Yes, people should focus on living from a place of abundance. The world would do much better.

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The hive is great for us and we can do anything for posting.

It becomes quite clear to me that we will need to focus on rewiring people's brains at a foundational level.

I've been saying something similar for years. Most human beings aren't evolved enough for decentralisation. There is still too much greed, scarcity and "holier than thou" stuff going on.

I remember my shock after a few weeks on Steemit when I realised that the community was just a microcosm version of what was going on the conventional world. Nothing's changed with Hive.

That being said it's a fascinating, inspiring, frustrating, curious, eye opening, jaw dropping space to be in. I've met some great people along the way and enjoyed some memorable and fun meet-ups. 😁

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social media probably wont ever be particularly great I doubt. Concentrate on your spiritual outlook and don't let the rage get to you. Benevolent cult leaders is what we need, out in the material world, not brainwashing each other im afraid, but simply leading by example, shining with an impermeable wholeness that can only be achieved by losing our expectations and acting only out of pure awareness. Repeat: lose your expectations. That way you can begin to act as a divine hero in this world without giving in to bitterness when circumstances inevitably reveal the innate shitness of things. Failure, ridicule, abandonment, poverty, pain, death. Transcend your concern of these things and you will have conquered the infinite. big love man x x
deepest acceptance. effortless furtherance

Good post and I agree with you.

You can't blame others for your non-actions.

What others do is their business and you have no right to tell them what to do.

Hive police? I didn't notice anything. Either I don't follow the right wrong people or am too benign to be confronted :)

@tipu curate

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I have the opinion, everyone can do with the owned assets what he likes.

If Elon sells everything, it's his choice.

Look mister paper hands is crying too (stoolpresidente).

These cry people are the first that panic sell.

Edit:

On hive we need a way to invest without play the curation game. Big Investors will never play it.

They would buy hive for Rcs and delegate the Hive power for delegation rewards somewhere. Rcs are the thing for investors, curation is unattractive and a to subjective thing in a cancel culture time.

Luckily I missed the wave of harassment of Elon Musk for Tesla's bitcoin sell. I would have been depressed seeing it.

As I already commented elsewhere, I believe this is awesome for bitcoin what Tesla did. Taking some profit while releasing some of the holdings back to the market. Does anyone objecting to this move understand how bitcoin will look if all big players only amass bitcoin and never sell? Where would anyone buy bitcoin from in a relatively close future? Bitcoin would become a quasi-dead coin, because it would have no liquidity, and no transactions.

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I'm not against the people who are acting as HODLer. In my opinion, this is their way to encourage people to invest because they learned that the future of it is in this coin. However, it's like a marketing way. If that amount strikes to the top that may be beneficial for me, why not? That's why we are investing because we wanted our money to get bigger.

Meanwhile, in the hive, I've been seeing those downvoted content. I'm neutral about it because I'm just a small fish and I don't want attackers hitting me with their downvotes. The thing is, maybe having a war is not a good way in disciplining hivers. We don't want them to go away because it's still an asset for all of us. Perhaps another way if they have in mind.

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I picked up some safemoon and I am hodling that. Does that make me one of them or just an idiot in general :) Thankfully I only put about $50 into it which was just laying around going to waste anyway. If I never get it back, oh well.

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