More Worthless Ideas About Hive| Get rid of the HP | Curation Rewards at 75%?
Hive being a social media blockchain has its perks. Everyone has some idea about how to make the system better and fix things 😊. Here are some more!
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Firs I would like to emphasis that overall, we seem to be focused a lot on things at home, then actually reaching out, making partnerships, onboarding and generating growth in general. Growth can sort out a lot of the perceived problems that Hive seem to have.
This said, generating growth is not always an easy task. Also, there is no obvious way how to do it. If it was easy everyone would have done it till now.
In general, their seem to be two ways to generate growth.
The first one directly from the native blockchain and the blockchain social media idea, and the second one generating growth from apps build on Hive (second layer).
From what we have witnessed in the past, it seems that the future is in the apps. This will also make the Hive ecosystem more resilient as the growth will come from multiple sources, not just one.
Hive as a blockchain is more secure now than a year ago. Its more decentralized. This is a huge selling point. On the other hand, it lacks a secure second layer. The unofficial second layer, Hive Engine is still centralized with a single point of failure. It is hard to bring in heavy investors in such a system. There is an initiative now to decentralize Hive Engine, and this is great.
The native Hive tokens (SMTs) should come at some point as well. This will be great and will provide tools for more apps to be build on the blockchain.
The future is in the Hive apps!
Having this said, where does this leaves us with the Hive blockchain and its tokenomics?
A lot have been said on the topic already, and here I will just point out few more things.
Powerdown period
I think there is now a larger consensus in the community that the 13 weeks powerdown period must go. At this point it seems obvious.
When Steem launched, it had a one-year powerdown period. It was a protective measure from massive dumping. The initial stake was in a hands of few, and they distributed the stake trough content voting, but the rewards couldn’t be taken out immediately. This constrained the supply and made it easy to pump. Later the powerdown period was changed to 13 weeks.
More than four years later we still have the 13 weeks powerdown period.
At this point the 13 weeks powerdown period has lost its initial purpose to prevent massive sell off, and its basically acting as a barrier for new investors.
Everyone who wanted to sell and exit had a plenty of time to do it. Now we need to lift of that barrier so if someone want to enter, to not feel stuck.
Remove the Hive Power?
As mentioned in the title there is a possible radical solution to remove the Hive Power in general. What this means that all Hive is liquid. The weigh of your vote/curation depends on your liquid hive balance. Maybe we can implement a one moth average on the weight of the Hive balance.
Now as said this may seems like a radical option, and for sure it will have a ton of technicalities to sort out, basically changing the whole concepts of vests etc. Maybe its to much a change for the blockchain. Some security issues might be there as well.
Another solution is basically making the powerdown as short as possible. A one week poweredown? Instant powerdown?
I don’t know how the above will work, and all the challenges from a technical perspective, but the overall direction is clear. A shortest powerdown period as possible. Shorter than four weeks, or no powerdown period at all.
If we take a look at the other crypto projects the maximum powedown period (unstakng) we can find is somewhere around five days. On Uniswap you can enter or exit a liquidity pool instantly.
Curation Rewards at 75%?
Another topic in the Hive tokenomics is the curation rewards, or the reward pool in general.
Reminder of the Hive inflation distribution:
- Authors 32.5%
- Curators 32.5%
- HP holders 15%
- Witnesses 10%
- DAO/DHF 10%
Hive staking rewards are so complicated its crazy. You have a 15% of the inflation just for hodling Hive Power, (around 3% APR atm), that are invisible to the regular user. The Hive Power magically increase in your wallet without you noticing it. Then we have the curation rewards, that are gamified with the voting window, reward curve etc. In my view all stake is equal and should earn the same. The CR APR can vary but let’s say on average its 12%. Combined a total of 15% APR in staking rewards.
Now imagine if you just hold HIVE and receive a daily transaction as rewards. So much easier and simple.
What about 75% CR?
Well Hive has been around for more than four years now and the token distribution has been taken place in this period. At the moment Hive is one of the most decentralized cryptos.
There has been a lot of talks about cutting author rewards already. Usually the talks are mover rewards to SMTs. A 75% CR will keep giving out the native token, but for even smaller share of 25%. This will greatly reduce the debate about the content, since the debatable share will be smaller.
Authors will loose!
Well yes, but authors are curators at the same time, and they will get higher CR as well. This will incentivize holding of the token more, and if the token price goes up, the author rewards in terms of $$ can be even better than now. Also, if authors have more options to be rewarded in SMTs or Hive Engine tokens, that will compensate.
There is more discussion on how to distribute the curation rewards as well. Some are mentioning optional tipping model. Like you get the curation rewards and if you decided you can vote/tip them.
Personally, I don’t thing tipping will work, at least in the current phase of development. We already have that option on PeakD and its not massively used.
Maybe having a smaller staking rewards if you don’t curate, and a bigger one if you curate is an option, but that seems complicating things further, that might not be as important at 75% CR share.
At the end simplifying the curation game as well. Voting window, rewards curves etc. This also should not be as important at 75% CR.
Some related previous posts:
- Is gamifing curation rewards necessery?
- Hive staking rewards | Can we do better
- Hive vests! | A flawed staking rewards model?
All the best
@dalz
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Every DPoS chain has a powerdown period. It's crucial for security. Look at the hot water the exchanges got into for helping Justin Sun gain control over the chain. A sudden money attack could prove destructive without a powerdown period.
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If its a 30 days average, they cant do nothing on a day one.
What is your proposal? How long should the poweredown period be? Should we leave it as it is?
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30 days sounds good enough.
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These are ideas I have heard
quite a few time in different shape and form.
Some have drawback just like the
ones we have now.
One thing is for sure, change always help
a blockchain and what you mention will
bring new set of parameters to push Hive
further and push the price as well.
I know we are less than a year old
We have to hit the ground running
and stay competitive in the market.
Instead of SMT, Can Hive help hive-engine to be decentralize
and take it from there?
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Well that will be a more elegant solution, but not sure how compatible SMTs and Hive engine tokens are. What are the different functionality of each of them? At the end its up to the big boys and project owners to decide :)
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In my opinion, 4 weeks powerdown time is more than sufficient to ensure the network and attractive enough for investors.
I agree with you, the future is on the 2nd layer and the Dapps built on top, however, there are not so many being built lately which is really a pity.
Regarding the CR, look, the only thing I would change now is the stupid Curation window and the rewarding curve. They are useless. On LEO seems to work pretty well and I think we should also implement it.
And another thing that is crucial is that, currently, there is no Incentive for developers to build DApps on HIVE. The DAO does not work as I would expect since the outcomes of the selected projects are poor.
We should spend that money on attracting investors and developers, ie, more advertisements and Business Plan.
Using the dao funds to attract more developers is great. Hope to see things going in that direction! Also more quality proposals coming out.
This cannot be stressed enough. Actually, it is the most insightful part of this entire discussion (in the article and outside of it).
I agree completely, the future of Hive, like most blockchains, is what is built on top of it. This is what will provide enormous value to the base layer. The more going through the chain, the more valuable it is.
As for your points, smaller power down period makes sense. Leofinance has 4 weeks and that appears to work well.
The 75% curation is something I disagree with. Now you are just making the "rich richer" since most of the author/curation pool is going to them. Who is going to benefit? The huge stake holders who are, in the opinion of some, part of the problem holding Hive back.
The reason to have a reward pool at the base layer is to encourage distribution via a means other than having to purchase (since most do not have money). At least someone can enter Hive, start posting, and get some HIVE via a few upvotes.
While it is not going to change everything instantly, it has proven to push things further out over time.
Alas, get a million people on Hive-based applications and we have a different set of topics that we would be discussing.
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The 75% CR is up to debate, but I'm seeing some are proposing to remove the rewards from the base token in general. 75% at least will still keep some part of the token to be gave out, increasing decetralization. I see it as the bare minimum under wich we shouldnt go.
Also this change 50% to 75% should come once we have more option for earning out there. We are already seeing some authors earn more in leo than hive.
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My view is that most, especially once sign ups are through the DApps, will focus upon the layer 2 (SMT) tokens primarily and HIVE will be the secondary token. I think this is vital for the growth of wealth on the hive blockchain since many are not going to accumulate a ton of HIVE.
However, since it does pertain to governance and proposal voting, I still feel that HIVE needs to be distributed to as many as possible. Having the reward pool at the base layer helps to accomplish this.
Simply put, I think that we need to look at decentralization at every level, in every way. Nothing should be exempt from that.
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Agree in most parts. 4 weeks PD would be enough. And 75% CR? Why not. Worth a try.
But you forgot the DAO, not the best use of the inflation.
But like with the DAO, the reward curve is there to maximize the profits of the "inner circle", so there will be a huge resistence to change it.
Thanks!
Four weeks seems to be on a lot of people mind, but if possible I would like to see it even shorter.
About the dao, I think there are a lot of options to spent those funds in a better way. Hope we start doing it soon.
Hive does have a savings feature. Possibly if there is a way that it could be made more attractive for users to park some of their Hive there, that could be something to consider.
Yes it does. It locks up your asset for three days from the request to move it. It's handy for compromised accounts.
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Agree with everything except the 75% and not sure how easy it would be to remove HP. Can we have some sort of vote system in which the community can vote and see the results so we can move the ball forward? I think that would really show where we are standing on a lot of issues
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 20/30) Liquid rewards.
We can have dao proposals without any payouts, just to check what the community thinks.
but we have to simplify it and make it intuitive; like put it right there on the front page in a corner somewhere. It definitely should be a new place and not intermixed with proposals, or if the survey is based on proposals, they should feel separate.
just change the power down to 4 weeks and make a linear curation curve. Dont mess with anything else. pleeeeezeee.
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That might do as well :)
Absolutely. The above statement is why I am currently powering down to invest in LEO Finance.
Nah. The 50:50 model with a Pure Linear Distribution adopted by Leo Finance is the best system. Easy to understand, no bot chasing, stake-based rewards (we are DPOS afterall), everybody wins. KISS (Keep It Simple Sir)!
Here is an idea. Why not use the model financial institutions do with Certificates of Deposit (CDs) or Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs)? One could select a faster power-down but a fee would be assessed for that option, scaled at the speed of the power-down.
The fee could be sent to null (burned) or the Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO)/HIVE Proposal Fund. Maybe even distribute this fee amount among the active block-producers/witnesses.
Once again KISS.
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I have thought about a market based powerdown period of some sort. For example a liquid hive to hive power market, where these to can trade. In this way if anyone want to exit fast he will probably get less. But in the spirit of fast powerdowns, I think se just need to cut the pd time without more complications. KISS :)
I power down my small hive nothing worth to stake since whales votes whales
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All the different ideas seem to have very valid talking points. As far as priorities, the decentralization of Hive-Engine stands out to me.
I say this in light of LeoFinance developing the two click signup for Metamask accounts. Do we really know how fast the onrush of new users might come?
It would be better to have more than a single point of failure sooner than later. 👍
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I hope improving Hive Engine will be on a faster route than Hive changes :)
It is a second layer and changes should go faster.
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Actually High CR will give motivation to everyone to powerup and curate instead of posting . Higher the staked Hive, more the chances for Author to get upvoted.
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Yes that as well!
I would love to receive 50% of curation rewards in liquid form :)
I would like them a 100% liquid :)
You might be interested in @reward.app then :P
Shorter Power Down time or even full liquid HIVE is needed to attract more investors, 13 weeks is just an eternity in crypto space. 75% CR is debatable and would harm small authors with little HP but would incentivize buying more HIVE.
Pienso que es demasiado tiempo para un apagado si alguna cuenta es robada facilmente puede resolverse en una semana
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Tezos has liquid staking and they seem to be doing just fine, TRON has what 3-4 days and they seem to be just fine! I do like the idea of if you don’t stake and keep a certain about of Mvestes there is a transaction cost that way you encourage people to stake to get rewarded abd avoid the transaction tax
As for curation don’t really care I’ve been more focused on adding more LEO to my reserves than HIVE
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SMTs let all of these experiments happen simultaneously. (I loved the 104 week powerdown. It's one of the reasons I paid attention to the project in the first place.)
Instead of the two of us duking it out over the HP powerdown period, with SMTs we each just start our own project and let the users vote with their feet.
75% CR eh?
I just wonder what the fuck 'curators' are gonna 'curate' if everyone becomes in a fucking 'curator' exclusively in the look to get higher CRs.
Oh! no wonder why it's not massively used. I just have the little hunch it must be because the monny, in this case, would have to get out from their very own wallets, you know?
Awesome thoughts you shared there. Really, it would make every single user in this blockchain to be investment conscious. The 13 weeks powerdown is indeed a hindrance for many investors. In any case, it would be great to see Hive roll out development roadmap.
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I never understand how to curate content, many math involved in this to vote certain post to get maximum profit. I usually delegate. If 75% implemented than small content creators dead as I mostly saw that some authors having good repute or pr gets big votes and mostly business-minded people curate them so get maximum return.
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There's no point in making plans for the future if introducing new features means breaking the system. The most needed feature Hive needs is stability.
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75% of CR will only screw things up, the authors will lose the incentive. If it is true that they can also be curators, but if there are no publications that we are supposed to vote on, how do you attract other users who have no way to invest.
In addition, this measure only gives more power to those who have more and power will be centralizing. We will continue in the eternal error of whales voting for whales.
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