Data and thoughts on votes in LeoFinance

in LeoFinance2 months ago (edited)

A year or so back, I made myself fairly unpopular in the SportsTalkSocial community for producing posts like this, and this, and this.

I was called such things as racist, a bigot, and cyber-bully - let's see how we go today!


cat.jpg
Image from pixabay


Actually, on running a similar script today to look through just over 1100 LEO account holders (having at least 100 LEO staked), the good news is that it's nowhere near as bad as things were in SportsTalkSocial.

The script looks at votes placed on authors in the past 7 days, where a voter has voted for an author at least 15 times. The table below is ordered by the sum of vote weight. E.g. 63.00 means 63 100% votes by the voter on this author.

VoterAuthorCountFull Vote Count
indextrader24indextrader246363.00
jeffjagoejeffjagoe4948.00
chrono.leochronocrypto4545.00
limkapython134242.00
davedickeyyalldavedickeyyall4141.00
klausklausklausklaus3636.00
dreimaldadbemotivated2929.00
limkanasty-1232929.00
exyyexyy2828.00
captaincrypticplaybyhive2626.00
indextrader24janasilver2626.00
ackzaackza2323.00
anthonyadavisleojfang0034722.89
valthstarwarz2222.00
kstop1kstop12222.00
wdougwatsonbemotivated2121.00
javiersebastianbemotivated2121.00
jparke.leotaskmaster4450le2121.00
limkatgc2121.00
dragosrouavikthor2121.00
pizzapaiclassicmemes2020.00
dmytrokorolstarwarz2020.00
javiersebastianvapenation2020.00
apprentice001apprentice0012020.00
wiseagentwiseagent2020.00
ybanezkim26ocd2019.50
drutterdrutter2219.25
dave-hughescryptoindex1919.00
dmytrokorolvapenation1919.00
abdullahyusufbemotivated1919.00
shortsegmentsrollandthomas2418.70
ironshieldironshield1918.29
eirikthatgermandude1818.00
javiersebastianstarwarz1818.00
georgeknowsallcryptoindex1818.00
iliasdiamantisknowhow921818.00
leoneil.leohoneysaver1818.00
basttermarianaemilia1717.00
kapengbarakocryptoindex1717.00
aibolit66jehovahwitness1717.00
leouprollandthomas1717.00
limkarollandthomas1717.00
aussieninjahappyme1717.00
brianphoboschekohler1717.00
hodolrollandthomas1717.00
casberpwiseagent1717.00
jondoerollandthomas1616.00
leeyh2rollandthomas1616.00
empoderattaskmaster44501616.00
diverserollandthomas1616.00
enginewittylatino.romano1616.00
valthjehovahwitness1616.00
cranium.leocryptospa2015.63
erikahcryptoandcoffee1615.50
hodlcommunitymoon3331615.48
wdougwatsonjehovahwitness1515.00
rezoanulv.leotaskmaster4450le1515.00
sumatranate.leotaskmaster4450le1515.00
drax.leotaskmaster44501515.00
cranium.leocranium.leo1515.00
jrcornelbrianphobos1515.00
adambarratttaskmaster4450le1515.00
jkr88taskmaster4450le1515.00
specifictaskmaster4450le1515.00
aibolit66bemotivated1515.00

Caveats and thoughts

The content is not specific to LeoFinance. And so, indextrader24 may not have voted with LP on 63 of their own posts/comments. However, totals like this are a bit worrying for HP / Other tribe tokens.

Popular authors that post a lot get lots of votes! And they should, shouldn't they? For the most part I would say yes, especially if they don't self-vote excessively. Although, how much content is too much, and how many self-votes are allowed?

I think it is down to the community, and larger stakeholders in particular to be good whales/lions and perhaps slap a few fish/cubs to keep the place in order.

In defense of rollandthomas, who has stated in discord that he will 'self-vote less', if he gave out 70 100% votes each week his 7 day percentages would look a lot better! (8 full self-votes are 56% of his total distribution in the past 7 days)

Chin up Rolland, distribute some more LEO with that LP of yours!

Cheers

Ash

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sort:  

Although, how much content is too much, and how many self-votes are allowed?

The eternal questions.

how much content is too much,

This is a hard one, because we actually want people to post a lot, like they would on any social media - though we don't want them to do it in order to milk the pool so we generally look at it from a "quality" standpoint. The second layer should fix this issue somewhat, but the problem is that people feel they are entitled to all the rewards, regardless of the interface they post on. I think if I posted 10x a day on d.buzz or whatever it is with the autos I have, people would get pretty upset pretty fast and I would get downvoted - and rightfully so.

From a quality perspective, I could quite easily and have done in the past, put out 5 posts a day of decent quality, but due to the support I get, that would be seen as raping the pool - so this isn't about quality of the content. As my rewards went up, I posted less, not because I wanted to post less, but because to post as I was would have had consequences when there were higher rewards involved. 5 times a day was okay when I was putting out 1000 words plus images on each and getting single digit rewards on all of them.

It seems more to be about what people consider "fair" reward, not for the content itself, but in respect to the rest of the community. In this regard, it also gets interesting, as for example, I am not earning more on a post than I was 4 months ago - unless you look at it in fiat currencies. In fact, I am probably earning less. I have made no secret that when I look at the value of a post, I see it in HIVE, not dollars.

When I vote, I don't think as to whether it deserves 20 cents or 3 dollars, I think about it in terms of the percentage of my staked vote, which is handy, because we have a slider for that. Then, it definitely does depend on who wrote the post, as while I do support new accounts, I will tend to support proven accounts more, as I think we should be aiming to make HIVE stars, influencers who prove that Hive is worth it to earn on for those who put in the effort consistently, but not those looking to get rich quick. Anyone can try and some might get lucky, but if looking to really get the most out of Hive as an earner, it is about being consistent in providing what is considered valuable.

I wonder, if some global superstar was posting on Hive 10 times a day and bringing in a million users a week, would anyone care if they were getting a thousand dollars a post?

how many self-votes are allowed

Depending on the size of the account and frequency of posting. I would suggest that large accounts that get support, no more than 1 a day, preferably none if very large. If they don't get community support, maybe 2 if the content is actually worth it. Small accounts, up to 50% of stake. But in general - there is a game in this too, where if I see people SVing a lot, I stop supporting. I am guessing some of the larger stakeholders do similar.

Whatever the correct answer for any of this though - The "one rule" always stands.

Don't be a dick.

Loading...

The comment is longer than the post. 🥴🥴

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It is not the size that matters

I know I know I know.

Let me just piggyback on the second paragraph. I believe over-reward is a thing. Recently I have been getting a lot of upvotes on my content and to be frank, I like it. However, it doesn't feel comfortable, especially when the engagement on those posts isn't much when compared to my other posts that have more engagement.

So it balls down to who we are individually and how we value our communities. If rewards are shared more broadly maybe people will participate more and we can grow the ecosystem together. However, there is the argument that most people just want to farm rewards and dump. So it's safer to reward those who are long-term players.

About self-voting...

It's not my style. Don't sit well with me. I know this social endeavor is tied to finance and for most people the financial side is more important. As a content creator liking my content seems counterintuitive. Of what purpose does it save.

It's about time we have defi on hive so does who worry about ROI can do their thing without hurting the whole social experience.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It's really strange that it's up to the user to self-moderate with Dbuzz as opposed to layer 2 having been rolled out a long time ago on Steem or some similar solution. #projectblank will solve ot this and what used to be a shit post will become valuable in its own way.

I'll start where you left if: "Don't be a dick"... :)

Under that statement: everybody shall stop self voting. The self vote will give a 20-25% APR? While self voting, especially by large accounts, will prevent genuine and sincere users to start blogging at LEO, and buying the LEO token as an investment. If we can get let's say 1M$ new money into LEO, what will the token value be? 50-100% more maybe? So the self vote APR is nonsense in money terms. Actually, self voting prevents LEO to grow faster than it does. That's my firm belief. Unfortunately, I don't have numbers and analyses, but I have more than 4 years of experience with HIVE and seen too many great contributors (bloggers, engagers) leave HIVE simply because of all the shit and being a dick behaviour going around. My suggestion is: Let us work on our culture, stop self voting, distribute our votes more... when not having the time for all the curating, start supporting curator teams. Better to support curator teams who manually curate, rather than auto voting.

In my daily curation rounds in the music section of HIVE, I have to skip more and more users day by day. Some of them I really like to give a 3 to 5$ vote, but when someone is never engaging outside its own post, such user becomes not valuable, even when the content is great. This is just one use case that let me decide to ignore an author. I have many more :) In essence, I want users to see they behave as a community member. When not, they don't get my support. I wished other curator groups at HIVE did the same, but I see 30 to 50$ from these groups for users I would never give a vote unless they change their behaviour. Oops, now I'm digressing too much from the initial: "Don't be a Dick" {LOL} sorry about that. Also, I need to summon @abh12345 to this comment, adds something extra to the long-form comment down below somewhere. Soon, and we can wrap this post with all its comments into a paper that can be published as a book with all these long-form comments hahahaha

NJOY Sunday and always without any limitations :)

If we can get let's say 1M$ new money into LEO, what will the token value be? 50-100% more maybe?

I think 15% more at the moment - it is doing well! :)

Some of them I really like to give a 3 to 5$ vote, but when someone is never engaging outside its own post, such user becomes not valuable, even when the content is great

This is definitely an issue and something that I have to work on again too. I tend to get trapped on my own posts these days, though the last 24 hours have given me some breathing room for some reason.

I believe that long form content is really valuable to sites, but there has to be more than that also. Long form gives meat, takes time, requires thought and the engagement it gets makes people more connected to Hive, especially if it can't be found elsewhere.

Agree we need more than Long-form only. I believe each different type of content needs its own reward pool. Then, whatever happens, nobody can be pissed off when some long-form content gets fewer rewards than quick short-form content. That's why I really like what the Leo team is trying to do with 'project blank'; They plan a new reward pool for this. Maybe we shall move the HIVE content rewards to the second layer all together. Something I believe will be better for the future of HIVE and the HIVE ecosystem. With that last statement, I assume we'll heading to Smart Contract support. When we don't go that route, am not sure what the best way forward will be, but have the feeling we shall stick to a social network type of services only which essentially means offboarding eg the gaming apps. But, all the advantages of the HIVE chain other than social media services will be not be utilised, which is a shame. Therefore my thoughts on HIVE becoming a general-purpose chain with support for Smart Contracts with the social media rewarding mechanisms not anymore in the base layer, but only at layer 2.

Damn racist cyber bully!! You'll get yours. You see if you don't!! Why I oughtta....

No wait..... there's two!

Two!! Two!??! DAmn owl! Learn your words!

Known as a Desmond around these parts, or the parts I was before :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hahaha. Oh I get it!!!

Suggestion:

A specific 'tag' that when used correctly has the ability to disqualify posts from ever being displayed anywhere near 'trending' or 'hot' status. Platform politics, internal memos, debates (sometimes heated), things the outside doesn't understand. That sort of content does not mix well with the rest of the general entertainment/information.

Yes, I suggested this very same thing nearly one year ago.

Our discussions, disputes, politics, etc. This will never stop. They are necessary. Sometimes things get ugly.

I don't sign on to Youtube and see board room meetings trending. I'm sure they have meltdowns and all kinds of politics going on. Arguing about who to deplatform next. Yadda yadda yadda.

This content can still be available to the public here. It just needs to be sorted into a separate pile (PEOPLE STILL GET PAID) on the side, under a new tab or platform politics community... something.

Since I came back, I've already seen quite a few disputes draw a lot of attention. This takes away from the content creators trying to get eyes on their prize. Even in the past when I've felt the need to express my views highlighting a few things I thought were issues that needed addressing, I would have preferred to have a place I could go for that.

I know this is off topic but I'm not going to write a post about this. I'm aware of the issue that brought this post on. I respect you folks. I'm glad so many care. And I think we can do even better.

hmm yeah. 'when used correctly', might be a tough one. We do have some people who would choose to stick their content on a different pile, and they are perhaps the ones discussion disputes (as the new creator has just arrived and is all about art not arguments).

But I think t depends on which window to the chain you are looking in from. Hive.blog/peakd Trending/Hot is probably always going to be all over the place, and I think it will be up to (advert presenting-inflation burning, nice interface creating, smart guys in charge, account muting-more centralized) communities, like leofinance.io to make their own way to their public.

stemgeeks.net is probably the strictest community for Trending/Hot content, you wont catch much about disputes - and posts are zero'd and accounts muted.

You reminded me of this one, although on re-read it's not so close, but did have:

Communities may well also choose to hide Bot boosted posts from their feeds in order to keep a solid set of Trending/Hot posts which match their vision and goals at the head of affairs

https://peakd.com/@abh12345/who-will-create-the-content-for-the-bid-bots-to-promote-in-the-future

Anyway, yes that tag would be welcome for use with the 'general' interfaces, and I would have used it on this post.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Well. One thing I'm not saying is make the platform politics invisible. I'm sure it would be a vibrant section and people would enjoy browsing the chaos. If you're a responsible member with a reasonable concern, what's so hard about using the 'tag'? Nothing.

I'm always using PeakD so I see the whole world. It's fine if other communities have solutions but when there are problems, maybe it's muted there, but one can still announce whatever to the world.

Recently the one who starts with E wrote the post about JR, then that buddy came along to publish a manic episode for what seemed like days and days and days. Plenty of misinformation and emotions. Is that really worth center stage?

I remember one year, the other platform, it was briefly mentioned on Joe Rogan podcast. The day before, trending was a mess of paid votes and petty drama. If that's what they would have seen when bringing the site up on screen during the podcast viewed by millions, they would have sat and joked and ridiculed the place for twenty minutes. We dodged a bullet. The posts on trending were uninteresting paid vote style spam (you remember that stuff), so they didn't click or browse much; we still got a mention.

Maybe I'm just overthinking this. Nothing will come out of it.

It's a hot topic now. I see a few other posts related to these recent developments. People want to talk about it and should, but we're so much more than this and sometimes others latch on late, just because it's fashionable and might bring in a few eyes and cents.

Dude. Apologies. I talk too much.

Is that really worth center stage?

It was only center stage on the general interfaces and I'm just not sure they'll be that important going forward.

These days, I can't see anyone going on TV to promote hive.blog content. Maybe they would be there to talk about the blockchain as fast and 'free', but I think it's more likely we'll see Khal (LEO boss), or a hologram of Marky (STEM boss), talking about their communities of xxx,xxx built on Hive.

Dude. Apologies. I talk too much.

No need, suggestions, rants, beers, always welcome :)

Outside public image isn't my main concern. A proper forum is not only more productive, leading to better results, but it provides members with a space to bring up issues in a way that doesn't make it look like a hit piece or a smear campaign.

As for those communities and developments now and into the future. None of them can survive or even get off the ground without a central hub of activity directing traffic back and forth. Sometimes I think people believe 'decentralization' means 'teamwork' isn't allowed. That space in the middle is the most valuable. Art crowd arrives for art, spills over into crypto and finance. Vice versa. People go to the mall to buy shoes, then because it's there they have a bite to eat. The businesses are all independently operated but benefit from each other being in close proximity. That's how a department store works. That's how a city works. Same with a country. Same basic principles no matter which way you scale it.

This content can still be available to the public here. It just needs to be sorted into a separate pile (PEOPLE STILL GET PAID) on the side, under a new tab or platform politics community... something.

200% agree on the 'about LEO' posts in some special corner. That said, the LEO community seems to like these internal LEO posts since they are in trending all the time, while none LEO posts are having difficulties getting some traction.

I disagree with posts about LEO in need of rewards. Let's make them without rewards. Then only those who want to talk about LEO, its culture, what is good or not, will talk about it genuinely, not for the rewards.

I actually meant Hive in general. So a place on PeakD for example. That would include LEO and all other projects. Then LEO as a community wouldn't have to put up with a trending smear campaign due to the irresponsible use of influence, for instance. Members from all communities would have a place where members from all communities can chime in. If I have an issue with LEO or something happening on LEO or see a bad actor on LEO, why put LEO in a position where the community looks bad? Let's say I'm wrong and the community goes on the defensive, downvoting and ridicule is soon to follow, and even if the community was in the right, the drama still makes LEO look bad.

As for that echo chamber style content that tends to annoy people unless they're deep inside the echo chamber. Nothing I say will change that. It's up to a community to decide if they'd prefer to sit and talk to themselves or create something for the rest of the world.

Hear Hear. Such corner at HIVE would be great. What I was saying about LEO, applies to HIVE in general and all the sub-communities and tribes. I also think we shall create a wall-of-shame. This can be a website where we provide at a central location, an aggregated view on what is happening in and around HIVE. Adding service to such central informative website, like teams like hivewatchers are executing through their Discord, and added to that some additional human based governance services, will increase the number of users taking a note of what is happening. The information will be much easier to find and follow, which in the end will drive the culture we like to have which should be much more about being a community with a set of good values which will drive the idea at outsiders to want to be part of HIVE and/or sub-communities and/or tribes, irrespective of the money thing.

What I'm suggesting covers more than just a shit list. I don't want to see what I have in mind placed in a different location. What I'm talking about is as simple as a tag, and when used, that tag disqualifies content from reaching trending on Hive.blog, PeakD, and other platforms catering to the entirety of what's available on chain. Once disqualified from the main section, it can be found in a sub section for INTERNAL content. Easily accessible and open to the public, but not right under their noses, since sometimes things get ugly. Not all things get ugly. The platform politics are necessary but we don't see board room meetings on the trending page of Youtube for a reason. It's all about transparency and recognizing the fact it's counterproductive to rub some of this internal content in the faces of those simply taking interest in what we have to offer. Show them the good, but give us a place to debate openly and freely. The moment you take the showbiz elements away, problems become a lot easier to solve. The posts can still generate income. Sometimes when they get blasted with downvotes, the general public does not need to deal with the eyesore, unless they click the tab leading to the content behind the scenes.

I understand what you are after :) The implementation is simple, just a UI design. That in itself is maybe an 'issue' again, since not all UIs may like to develop something like that. When all the major UIs can start implementing, the rest may follow.

Of topic: For some reason, I never liked Trending channel and I like to see a Random channel, maybe replacing one wit the other. Voiced that multiple times since the last 4 yrs, but none of the UI dev teams seems to like such an idea.

LOL! If you want to see random, just scroll through the most recent published posts. That's about as random as it gets. You can select tags and do it that way as well. A little less random. I like to see what's Trending. But it would be nice if that was a little more organic.

And the amount of times I've repeated suggestions proves its difficult to enact change. That tag I mention though. It could even be added after the fact. "Let's take this outside." "Let's not fight in front of the kids." It just seems like the responsible thing to do. Not all posts are trending because they are 'popular'.

Trending in general I like, but isn't trending at HIVE usually those users with large amounts of auto voters on their posts?
I have little experience with getting into HOT and TRENDING. What noticed a few times when a post of mine got a bit further up, is a whole bunch of additional votes from users I never see on my posts or comments section. I stopped looking at TRENDING more than three years ago. HOT as well. They can skip both of them since they not helping in spreading the rewards to the quality posts on-chain.

The tag is a good idea indeed. But as you also stated: Not easy to change the minds of devs. For instance, I like all the blogging UIs to integrate hivesearcher. But none of them did, except Ececny, the creators of hivesearcher. I believe it was the PeakD team mentioning last HIVEfest" a search function is on the list, but our users are not requesting it. Well, I believe many don't know that a search function already exists, and two, users need to be pushed the search function into their face and slowly they will start using it. Such a shame super posts gets totally lost after a few days already. But also on this front, super easy to integrate, but none dev team does it.

Maybe the maximum amount of self votes should be hard coded so this discussion wouldn't be never ending like it is today. Just an idea :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Could easily be done, and then there were alt. accounts :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

ohh didn't think of alt accounts. But I'm sure smarter minds can find a solution :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I remember those posts in sports and the arguments that followed. The problem for many users is the understanding of being part of a community. In sports we had the scorum community join in and to be fair had no clue. On Hive before the tribes emerged it was frowned upon to self vote. I think with Leo's value rising like it has the same thing is now emerging as you can't hide away like you used to.

Yeah, I took some shit for that serious, but I think it saved a fair few SPORTS from going on comments voted near payout, and uncovered some quality circle-jerking.

It's much better on LeoFinance, and that is with very little crowd control.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I can see some comment voters here as who does 63 posts? I am surprised I am not on this as I do vote taskmaster often but then again do vote comments on my posts highly so balances out possibly.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

They are most likely comments being voted - I did check a few and a community member has seen to them (prior to this post).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Funfact: @indextrader24 = @janasilver so it's even more interesting :D

But guys like him think they are doing right. Crazy

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I saw you had visited him with a few gifts :) janasilver as well? sheesh!

Ah, those were the good old days weren't they? I kind of miss all of the referee drama from time to time. Thanks for pulling these stats together. Very interesting stuff! If it makes you feel better I will call you some names just for old times sake :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It did my head in at times, I was disgusted with some people!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah, I hear you!

I never self-voted and then got chastised for not voting for myself (by people who are self voters) I did it a couple of times and Asher punished me in the Engagement League and I didn't get rewarded... Ah, so... there is a right way/wrong way.

I just feel like I shouldn't be patting myself on the back. The testosterone around here is making me sweat. :))

Oh, the 1 HIVE gamble of landing in 11-20th place without a self-vote :D

Fair enough, I'll continue patting you on the back then!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

:) You are such a good sport.

Once again I fail to make it to your list. I am starting to think in your scripts you have a special exclude section for me.

I'm sure they don't, and this one is not such a miss :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

cyber racist :P

i may have created something new :p For me, as i have said countless times there needs to be some balance. If you self vote one of your posts even 2 daily that's ok, it's your money. At the same time you may interact with others and vote a bunch of other posts as well.

Now if you make 5-6 posts and upvote them all especially with a vote that worth a lot and at the same time you don't vote others (or only 2-3 friends) then there is a problem.

It's not that easy though to make assumptions because we don't know of the situation or the mindset. Someone may face economical difficulties and by self-voting he can help himself or his family. Another one may not have that much free time. So it's really hard for me to start accusing people without clear "proof"

Now what i try to do is write max 2 posts per day (95% of the time is 1 post), i upvote myself and then i try to interact with others and upvote their posts/comments. My vote is currently worth close to 20 cents so that means i earn 10 cents with my full vote. Even if i earned 10$ i would still 100% upvote myself both because i deem my posts worth that much and i put a lot of effort into creating them and because my wallet is empty in real life :P

10$ is my limit though, i won't self-vote with more than that, but that's me. If someone follows all the "good" things from above i don't care even if he self-votes with a 50$.

Now if we continue this and say ok, we need to distribute the upvotes "fairly", how can we deem which post deserves it? Everyone votes with their own criteria. Let's say someone upvotes me with 20$, another may think that my post is actually worth 0.

Many don't even check what they vote as well, i mean the context. They may know the author so "ahh ok a post from, it will be totally good" and upvote it. Heck even if i write a post, then copy it and instead of publishing it, told to a known author to do it from his profile instead of me, i bet he will receive the same rewards :P

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I just did a post about forms of abuse and self-voting is one that always causes debate. I said you need to be really confident your content has value to give it a vote as it ought to be up to the community. Who am I to decide if my stuff is any good?

Yeah I saw it and gave it a read as was top of my feed when I posted this.

Who am I to decide if my stuff is any good?

Check 'New' and make an assessment - I think you are worth 30p of your own investment each day Steve!

As you can probably tell I'm self-voting again and have been for a while. I don't think my content is the worst or the best so I don't consider that too much. I do consider the time and investment I've made though, and am currently of the opinion it's worth a few quid of my 'own money' each week. Mind you, there wont be 7, or 14, or 65 posts, more like 3/4 and so a good 90-95% of my VP to go around.

I can find enough by others to use up my daily votes. Giving myself one per day would make little difference to what I make, but it would not feel right. Just my choice.

Hear Hear. I wish I wish I wish everybody would take such an approach. I truly don't understand all those who self vote that this will give them more money in the end. Money less distributed to those who make this platform great, will eventually result in less great users, therefore much less great token values. Short term versus Long term. Am so puzzled to read from long-termers, they take the short term approach again. Somewhere the logic fails me. But, sure, I don't have to tell you since you already understand and go by the culture we need.

We definitely need to get more votes to the minnows to keep them engaged. I do give votes to bigger accounts, but if I see they self-voted then I will give them less. Of course many others just automate their votes and so do not check. I don't care that much about what I make from curation.

!ENGAGE 25

Same here! I generally vote for the good posts (mostly on the music side of things), but also vote to users who create ok to better content and try to get a place in our community, but may not be that great in doing so. Sometimes I help with some tips. Currently, my own account follows my proxy vote with a vote train connected, since I hardly have time to curate with my personal account as well. I concentrate on the low-value post, partially newbies, some not so newbie, sometimes long-term users with high rep (those without a following of auto voters anymore). I do see quite a few curators with vote trains voting for users showing they have no connection with HIVE (eg not engaging at all, some not even answering the comments they receive), which frustrates me when I see this. Selfvotes: I guess I also vote from time to time posts of users with self votes, but when I know this, I either don't give a vote at all, or a tiny one (like you do). For some reason, I don't like to comment on a post and not vote for the post itself 😉

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

Fair enough :)

I was nervously checking my name over there lol . Looks like I am not in there :) Does that mean my bot is doing a good job ?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yes, I couldn't see you anywhere :)

To be fair, most of the names in that list are doing a good job - it just gets a bit iffy when the vote count/weight is up in the 20+. Others may disagree!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I get it . One of the hardest question with respect to voting is - how much is too much ?

Say I post every single day and all my posts are amazing , would you vote all of my posts? If yes , is it wrong?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Everyone has a differing opinion, which is cool. Stake has the final say though.

Say I post every single day and all my posts are amazing , would you vote all of my posts? If yes , is it wrong?

Is it wrong that you post every single day or that your posts are amazing? :D

A self-vote a day is generally accepted I think. If you want to post more, go for it. If you want to post 10 times a day and vote them all......

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

True . I personally don't self-vote but my curation bot votes me if I am in top 25 , I didn't think about it till now but now I am considering staying away from the engagement league.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

bigot.

I will go back and read the post now.

There's always one!

That is too soft and more like an Aussie compliment.

I don't want to say something and make an Englishman cry. We have sports for that. :D

They ae used to crying so I wouldn't worry. Plus Asher supports Man Utd so that is sport to make them cry.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Glutton for punishment

We are doing alright this year!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Well, the health of a community relates to how big accounts distribute its token.

For whoever has, to him more will be given

Those who show up every day and have some clout will enjoy the top spot. Smaller fishes can fancy their chances by participating more. That's my take.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

This is smaller fishes participating more, I liked seeing this one in the table :)

image.png

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I was just about to comment on this. I don't exactly control it when something is automated. Most of what I did on LEO is just comments. But I do appreciate the vote since it has helped me grow.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

As above, I'm happy you are in the list - with hundreds of comments each week, you are working hard for these votes :)

Yea I wasn't around for the entire SPORTS issue but looking at the threads, it sure looked like a huge problem. At least in LEO, there aren't as many issues.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sometimes its easy to forget that the community is for the community by the community. The more diverse these votes are, the more distributed the tokens will be which is just healthy. Truth is some may have made favorite friends which obviously influence their votes for them, I don't think that's wrong.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I agree, finding a balance without an rulebook though can be tricky.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Maybe a limit for how many self-votes as well as for how many times you can upvote another account in a 24 hour period would help?

People would just make enough alts to cover the number of votes per 24 hours :/

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah, it's probably not worth doing so manually but people will bot it.

I'm proud to see that I'm distributing my vote nicely. At least I assume I am since I don't appear in the table.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

You and most people are, and even 15 votes to other people isn't really so bad, is it? :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Great article, being new to Leo I learned a lot, thank you :-D

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I discovered d.buzz last week and used it a couple of times. Should I stop using it?
@abh12345 @tarazkp

Being with HIVE for more than 4 yrs, spending at least 2 hours daily on HIVE and projects around HIVE to support the quality and growth of the platform, service and community, I still wonder why so many users think their actions have some sort of value, while they, in essence, prevent HIVE and LEO and all the other blogging services and tokens in our ecosystem to prosper and gain traction in the market.

It is 100% clear to me, self voting is counterproductive. Small accounts earn nothing (cents) anyway, so why adopting self voting? Large accounts have to set an example, create a culture of what it means to be a community, ie self voting is not setting the right example. Sure, some more money will flow into the users own pocket and when being a large account, this may be a considerable amount of dollars, but these dollars will not flow towards those smaller accounts that make a lot of effort to produce great content, engage the shit out of everything and eventually leave the platform again because they feel their time and attention is and stays undervalued. Seen this at HIVE coming and going in waves last so many years. Have seen so many great content creators leave. Have seen so many great engagers leave. Tried to move some of them from Steem to HIVE back in the days, and they never came to HIVE, since they didn't see the point to stick to Steem anyways, why try HIVE? I truly hope, LEO is not moving in the same direction. Am not too active in LEO lately, but it worries me I'm reading posts of active LEO users about their lack of attention they get, some of them stating they will reduce the quality of their post so they can spend less time creating them.

And what do we earn with our own vote at LEO anyways? 50% for the content owner and 50% curation. This is what, 40% or 50% APR when voting one our own posts? And half of it when we vote for other users posts? So, for 20% to 25% of our total LEO stake added to our own pockets on a yearly bases we believe this is the way to go? In crypto, 25% gain of a token is nothing. Why not support a culture so that the LEO token gains an extra 100% because the LEO service is seen by the outside world as a super cool blogging service? We just need outsiders to invest a bit in LEO, and the LEO token value moves up with double-digit or even triple-digit percentages. No self voting can ever result in more value for any users, whether being a small fish or a gigantic whale.

Another topic that I don't get my head around: The same authors in the top/popular list every single day. Sure, most of these authors produce great content, no doubt about that. But isn't this boring and internal focussed for anybody from outside (and inside) LEO to see most of the post being about LEO and the projects of LEO? Though I'm not a frequent user of Twitter, my Twitter feed which is about crypto is much more dynamic than the one on LEO. And you know what? Lately, I spend more time on Twitter than LEO, for that reason only. Don't you think what I do, others won't do as well? And what about people from outside LEO? I don't have numbers, I didn't analyse anything, but it makes much sense to me when an outsider looks at the main landing page at LEO, that person will think again before even considering creating an account and start blogging and engaging in the LEO community. I know for a fact, if I wasn't with HIVE for this long, I wouldn't start with LEO (or HIVE) looking at how not dynamic the community seems to be.

This comment may not make me popular in the LEO community, but I don't care. I'm not married to LEO and can spend my time somewhere else as well. Not that I want to do so, since its for a reason why I'm still with HIVE (and LEO) after more than 4 years. And as you can see in my blog channel, it's not about the money I earned, since that is pocket money. I truly believe what Steem started back in the days is something great. Because of Steem, we now have gazillion reward-based social media, which is a plus. But what I believe, the entire reward structure needs a complete overhaul. As well as the idea of quite a few users and project owners, to onboard users based on rewards for content. That message we shall delete from our vocabulary, completely! REwards based blogging services will only work when we great a true community culture where money is not an object at all. We need to feel we like to be with HIVE and LEO for whatever reason, but money. We need to feel all we do is not just for ourselves, but for all of us. When we can get that culture established, the token values will go through the roof as a result.