@Smooth, fuck off.
Are You a Carrot Guy or a Stickhead?
Downvoting does not aid in reward pool conservation. Nothing can aid in reward pool conservation. Rewards in the pool got programmed to get distributed in full, every day, until 2035, or whenever the devs collectively decide to tilt this pinball machine, whatever this machine may be. It's hard to define what Steem/Hive is (or was) because there was never anything like it in the history of our collective memory.
| Year | Supply | Inflation | New Supply |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2016 | 250,000,000 | 9.50% | 23,750,000 |
| 2017 | 273,750,000 | 9.08% | 24,854,398 |
| 2018 | 298,604,398 | 8.66% | 25,854,554 |
| 2019 | 324,458,952 | 8.24% | 26,727,942 |
| 2020 | 351,186,894 | 7.82% | 27,452,027 |
| 2021 | 378,638,921 | 7.40% | 28,004,740 |
| 2022 | 406,643,661 | 6.98% | 28,364,989 |
| 2023 | 435,008,650 | 6.55% | 28,513,181 |
| 2024 | 463,521,832 | 6.13% | 28,431,762 |
| 2025 | 491,953,593 | 5.71% | 28,105,742 |
| 2026 | 520,059,335 | 5.29% | 27,523,204 |
| 2027 | 547,582,539 | 4.87% | 26,675,768 |
| 2028 | 574,258,308 | 4.45% | 25,558,997 |
| 2029 | 599,817,304 | 4.03% | 24,172,733 |
| 2030 | 623,990,038 | 3.61% | 22,521,348 |
| 2031 | 646,511,386 | 3.19% | 20,613,886 |
| 2032 | 667,125,272 | 2.77% | 18,464,106 |
| 2033 | 685,589,378 | 2.35% | 16,090,399 |
| 2034 | 701,679,777 | 1.93% | 13,515,587 |
| 2035 | 715,195,364 | 1.51% | 10,766,608 |
So what am I getting at? People come to the chain, and they bring their expectations with them. Most of us are market-oriented individuals because the market is what makes the world go around. I won't be so bold to suggest that a "free market" exists anywhere on planet earth today. There will always be forces that tamper with the marketplace, whether they be monopolies or governments.
However, governments are monopolies too. They are a monopoly on the use of force. That said, let's get into the mindset of why people downvote. People downvote because they are lazy upvoters. All downvoting does is slightly increase the value of all other posts that got upvoted.
I won't suggest that overly-rewarded genuine shit posts shouldn't get the downvote. However, when you see that someone has put a lot of effort into their work and you are downvoting because you don't like their content, that is not right, and I think most people agree with this. Many continue to subscribe to Steem's antiquated notion that was Proof of Brain. PoB was this noble acronym which in part, 50% of it, pretended to utilize crowd wisdom.
This bold claim stood largely undisputed and made the concept of PoB infallible in the minds of some of the cypherpunk leet class. These good folks—and I call them "probably good" because there is a good chance they invented this stuff with the right reasons at heart. They fell victim to a classical logical fallacy that is the burden of proof fallacy.
The best way I can explain the burden of proof fallacy is that suppose you blurt something out loud, and it's an assertion. Perhaps nobody responds to what you said, so you come away feeling validated that what you said is true because nobody disputed it. That is a trick of the mind, and just because you do not get feedback at the moment, that does not necessarily make your statement infallible or unassailable.
We see this all the time in the field of science. Big thinkers are thinking big thoughts and saying lots of words and stuff and things. They float an idea, and it stands as "true" because "they are so smart, S.M.R.T., I mean, S.M.A.R.T." But then, as time keeps slipping into the future, the various ideas get debunked, perfected, or redefined in better ways.
☑ Rewards incentivize content creation and curation.
☐ A voting system that leverages the wisdom of the crowd.
The reason I'm making this post today is to remind anyone that had the attention span to read this far, that PoB as outlined by the blue paper, does not truly harness the wisdom of the crowd. Crowd wisdom is both adored and marveled at because it gets the answer right damn near every time. However, there is a formula that makes it work. For starters, one is mass participation, and each participant must have an equal say in the matter. And it really is, quite simply, that simple.
Unfortunately, on Steem/HIVE, we cannot conform to that formula because of the code. And I'm not saying that we should code to adhere to crowd wisdom. That alone could break many other things that cause this platform to effectively juice people for their creative content. And I'm not bitching about getting juiced by the platform. This platform has allowed me to grow and develop as a writer in ways that I couldn't have previously imagined.
In all fairness, the white paper does get pretty braggadocious about exploiting Zipf's law to effectively get us to contribute more than we will ever get out of the platform. And all things considered, I'm okay with it because this has been a fantastic learning experience. It has allowed me to grow and perfect my writing. Now, I feel that I'm at a point where I can up and take my skills wherever I damn well please at a moment's notice.
But let's look at these downvotes again, these "market signals," as some affectionately call them. What happens to all those quality content creators who got downvoted because of a disagreement of opinion? I am mostly referencing those who have abandoned their accounts and moved on to greener pastures. Are they still getting challenged to perfect their art every day? How about you? Imagine a world where, if you said something unpopular, someone would walk up to you and slap the smile right off your face for having the audacity to voice your thoughts?
Would a world like that encourage people to grow to their full potential? Would it encourage free speech? What's the best way to inspire individuals to participate in this strange LITTLE experiment that we call HIVE? Should we roam about slapping the taste out of people's mouths who are trying to perfect their art while attempting to shake some value out of this beast of a machination? Or should we be joining voting trails of places that engage in quality curation?
Remember this, downvotes hurt people's feelings and drive them away from the platform. If they are putting forth an effort, then what your doing to their post is probably wrong. All it does is rain on someone's parade and infinitesimally increase the value of posts that people have taken the time to thoughtfully curate. On the other hand, want to do some good here? Want to not be a shit-heel? Want to get gud at HIVE? Then resist the urge to downvote in favor of distributing more upvotes.
The reward pool will empty itself every day regardless of what you do. And by upvoting more posts that are meritorious in your eyes, in doing that, you are spreading positivity and nurturing the good and valuable content creators that make this place come to life.
In the marketplace of social media right now, we have an advantage, and this is because the market is currently demanding censorship resistance. But you and I am talking to you—Whoever you are, you are not helping us to be that place when you downvote posts because you don't like what was said. It's on a par with YouTube's grimy demonetization scheme. YouTube's grimy demonetization schemes are what will help to make our platform more popular. But if we go around doing the same damn thing that they're doing, then we deserve to fail.
In summary, we are all getting juked by this system as it is, by its design. I've been writing here for five years now. I've spent hours and hours on posts and gotten pennies in return for it. Then one day, just the other day, I hit the jackpot and made it to the tippy top of trending. And some fucking prick (@smooth), not to name any names, tells me with his "market signal" that my post is overrewarded. Or that shame on you for being an anti-vaxxer.
No. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. I don't care how awesome of a coder you are. I mean, kudos to you, good job, and thank you for helping to build this thing. But what do you want it to be? Do you want it to launch, or do you want it to fail to launch? Do you want people to flock here, get good at writing, thrive, and say sweet nothings about us to the world? Or do you want them to get embittered, leave, and tell all of their friends the experiment was a failure? Downvote some of your own god damned posts—you "overrewarded" fuckwit. Or better yet, show us how virtuous you are by sending all of your future rewards to null.
WE, COLLECTIVELY, get to make this thing whatever it will become (or fail to become). But we have to try to foresee what it will be or won't before it does or doesn't. Okay, this turnip is all out of blood for today, but I'll be back tomorrow. Maybe. Big up to tarazkp. Thank you for helping to inspire this post!
P.S. there is no PoB in blindly nulling an account's stake. Nor is there PoB in blindly upvoting, but a large part of this chain is run by curation trails anyhow. There has to be some middle way that doesn't involve randomly shitting on content creators. And please remember, folks, to always be classy and never get sassy! Either that or know your place and shut your face!
Have you looked at what content @smooth down votes? Have you looked at what content of his he up votes? I looked at his post most of which are his HBD stabililzer post, and all of them are 100% beneficiary to @hbdstabilizer , so he gets no curation from them and is basically burning hive.
When I see people mention and complain about his down votes, 90% of the time it is because rancho and haejin gave what he considers excessive rewards.
I see people commenting that he up votes his own comments, but that is pretty easy to check if a person takes the 12 seconds of time to do. (he doesn't that I noticed).
At the end of the day though when all is said and done, it is his vote and like you, me and everyone else on Hive he is allowed to vote how he feels, that includes down vote.
Thanks for taking the time to comment @bashadow. I did not know about his contributions to the stabilizer, what it is, or how exactly it works. If it's doing something good for the platform without hurting people in the process, then damn, that's a very commendable thing!
And you know what, technically speaking, you are correct. Because code is law, anybody can vote however they like, granted, this argument also supports the previous voting activities of rancho and haejin. It's their stake. They can vote however they want, right? And then that can get countered, and we can sit back and observe the shit show that is flag wars.
I'm not telling anyone how to vote in this post. I'm not in charge of anybody. I am, however, suggesting that people do right by their fellow HIVE authors. I am suggesting that they make this place a shining jewel that is the envy of all other platforms which promote censorship and control. When rewards get allocated to an account, they will get fulfilled unless there are downvotes.
When the downvotes happen, they effectively censor potential rewards from a post. You can see that YouTube is presently engaged in similar financial censorship. And this is causing youtube a mass exodus of quality content creators. There are so many good folks mass-migrating over to odysee.com now. Anyhow, again, thanks for your feedback.
I don't know. Maybe smooth is doing "altruistic game theory" for the betterment of the platform. However, he has to know that people came here with their human nature. And I don't know if re-wiring the minds of good content creators to get accustomed to the platform cucking them is such a good thing.
Yeah, it feels pretty cuck-like to put loads of effort into a post and then have the potential rewards obliterated because one guy is trying to null another guy's stake. I don't want to be a hive-cuck. I want this place to win. And the best way I can help make that happen is to convince people that we shouldn't be trolling legit posts that show true PoB.
Oh I don't know how much is altruistic on his part, I have my own difference of opinion with him on some of his voting down voting issues.
What I would like s to see the pop-up down vote box to come back only highly modified. I would do a heck of a lot more down voting if I could direct where my down vote went and for what reason. One more step in a down vote is not going to kill anyone other than down vote bots.
Down vote box pops up, 5 check boxes available. Pick one. Example:
Box one: Plagiarism (Author takes full hit of down vote)
Box two: Spam (Author take full hit of down vote)
Box three: Excessive rewards (Top five up voters take full brunt and receive no curation rewards).
Box 4 and Box 5 can be what others want, the three above are the ones I feel most strongly about.
Box three full explanation:
When people cast down votes the down voter if a whale has to be pretty careful as @smooth has been in trying to avoid reputation ruination. When it comes to reward pool abuse those individuals just as the spammers and plagiarist deserve what they get. So 50% of the down vote value for rewards and reputation should go on the top voter. The remaining 50% of down vote power should be split equally among the other four top voters. This will cause the small account trail followers to re-think who they follow vote trail wise. The author of the post would lose out on the reward amount but their reputation would survive intact and they would know it was not them that was down voted, just the top 5 or less up voters that were trying to play the system.
So far every time I have bought this up it has been shot down as that it would not work, or if we do that for down votes then we should have boxes for up votes, that argument does not fly, a down vote is used to counter a negative action and up votes are positive action. There are very few societies that do not differentiate between a positive action and a negative action, in other words people do not need to account for their positive action only their negative actions such as robbing a bank.
I like that idea. It seems like a winner to me. I don't know about the mechanics or coding that'd be involved, but at least it promotes less destructive behavior.
Yeah, I'm selling my 20,000 HIVE and moving to THETA.
Why?
Because of the downvoting.
And not because I'm getting downvoted. I seem to be strangely NOT downvoted.
I'm dumping 100% of my HIVE because I've seen way too many unfair downvotes.
THETA is a vastly superior system.
Would I be welcome there? lol
100% YES.
https://www.theta.tv/invite/48611ug
AND, I'll even subscribe to your channel (if you make the fee reasonable)!!!!
....I've just signed up - cheers for that - I'll have look around tomorrow..sleeeeeep....
Awesome. Send me a link when you get a chance.
Book marked and will take a look later today, on a quick review it seems to be mostly for video up loaders, but I do watch videos sometimes.
The "big deal" is that it's not "just a website".
THETA is a protocol.
It's a decentralized host that can be leveraged by any company, like a sort of decentralized AWS.
It could be used by NETFLIX to host their content.
It could be used by TUBI or HULU and it would save them tons of money.
One of the key features I like is that if I donate to a streamer, then my name gets shown on their homepage (just below the featured video) with the top ten ranked contributors.
Also, the streams are super-fast, much faster than odysee/lbry which are often very slow to start and sometimes glitchy.
https://www.theta.tv/video/vid55m5adnx551snx2h
it also has fully-integrated subscriptions (including switches for "subscriber only content") which puts PATREON out of business.
it also has fully-integrated NFT creation function, which lets you create your own NFTs for free.
AND it rewards you for watching videos.
It's an attention economy.
I will certainly be taking a look at it. If I can be paid to watch what I like then that sounds good.
and you can blog on both THETA and odysee/lbry.
ok, it looks like THETA has a 244 character limit (like twitter), so, a little annoying, but odysee/lbry does NOT have a character limit.
hell, i'll personally pay you to watch and or repost any of my vids!!
theta, odysee, lbry. Noted.
Thanks for the movie sample. While -of course- it's not sky-high-resolution & so on, I watched few pieces, tried seeking backnforth, it's pretty smooth and responsive. Definitely worth investigating. Many thanks again.
yeah, i only found out about it because i was researching storj and one of the articles mentioned World Poker Tour is using THETA to stream their events.
i couldn't believe it.
nobody's talking about this, and it's already live.
storj :D I remember this one when I researched and played with BURST and BHD and other proof-of-capacity coins (actually, a much more reasonable idea than proof-of-work). Thanks for pointing me to that https://ont.io/ even more to read and think about. Not today though, my mental batteries are too low now :)
awesome. thanks for taking a look. let me know if you find anything interesting.
that clip is an old vhs transfer. to see some hi-rez, check out some of the gamer streams.
Maybe a good reason to get rid of downvote function, then. Certainly not all of his downvotes are on rancho and haejin upvoted posts, I just got 2 downvotes in a row, neither had either of those whale votes. Even if he never upvotes his own content, this downvote pattern seems to be abuse of power, few users acting as reward police going around and punishing good content for getting a high payout (or for being anti-vaxx, it's hard to know for sure), when tons of other high payout posts by whales somehow don't get his downvotes. I've never been a fan of the downvote function, it seems to be abused for more than helpful to cut down on spam and plagarism (I and many others have also got hit many times for voicing dissenting views).
I've looked at several of his down votes and it is hard to see if any of them are really subject related. most of his large down votes are due to large up votes. One day my thought on the down vote will be adopted and people can see why they got the down vote whether it is for rewards, spam, plagiarism, or what people want to know. It's not hard it involves one more step on down voting but it is highly unlikely that it will be accepted or if it can even be coded, (which I believe it could be).
In your case it would seem the down votes were to counter up votes from @xeldal who seems to be a 100% manual voter when you look at the content he votes for. He votes in three ranges 100%, 50% and 20%, at least that has been what it seems for the last couple of days. Also his votes are spread out through the day unlike haejin and rancho who's votes are all completed within 1 to 2 minutes.
I am of the opinion that he is only voting to counter act what he feels are excessive votes. When he does down vote he seems to try to not wreck a person reputation, that to me shows he really is concerned with the reward pool system and with keeping things balanced.
I just scanned several pages of them, it seems majority are politically incorrect/independent journalism or conspiracy related, a good chunk are on recipe posts or related to natural medicine/healthy eating/gardening in some way, and a tiny minority on truly random posts that did not seem to fit any pattern. Many users in the independent journalist category are downvoted multiple times. Many of the downvoted posts are in fact not upvoted by haejin or rancho, although a good number are. This is what I noticed, seems to be a pattern to me, a pattern of the type of posts deemed to not be worth high payouts anyway - namely recipes and politically incorrect views. Those are my observations, I'll be putting a post together on the subject shortly...
wake up and smell the vaxtard agenda
couldn't disagree with your comment more but i'm not downvoting it...
Long comment stream, is there a particular thing about him that I am missing? I have looked at his down votes all seem to have at least three accounts in common on the up votes. I have seen him down vote a few food post, and a lot of crypto post also.
People all see different things when an accident happens right in front of them, that is why lawyers love eye witness accounts. I looked at all his down votes for the last 7 days, and while it can appear he is anti this or anti that, he seems to be more anti this person and that person and that other person
He downvotse anything that is against his agenda and bullies non approved content creators off the platform with big downvotes, never any explanations.
Vaccinations, eugenics, autism, coronahoax, agenda 2030...start there
I am not defending him, and I can see looking at his record those type post are about 1/4 to 1/3 of what he down votes. On the other hand 80% plus of his down votes have up votes from haejin, rancho and xeldal. A person would be very hard pressed to find a single down vote of his that went on an account post with out one of those three up voting the post.
I have seen down votes for political/life views from large accounts going both left and right side of the arguments. Down votes of that nature is because people are in fear that the view point they have been following might, just might be wrong, so they try to silence the voice. If it is excessive it does not matter what side of the track you are on, depending on how I feel at the time I some times speak out to the down voter. Does it help? Sometimes, twice that I remember the down vote was removed. I do not speak out much about how people vote, it is their stake and their choice.
So many of the big accounts downvoting are constantly damaging the platform and driving away users...many of my friends quit steemit because of it, and that is why I stopped using this account. Now I may start again to test out prob.
I just completed a post about my solution to the problem you are welcome to take a look and read or not. There is and has been a problem for a long time, one that will not be fixed until the people decide it needs to be fixed. So far I have seen very few solutions offered, just people offering to run away to somewhere else or wanting the down vote removed completely. Neither of those are real solutions. I hope a few more people post ideas on how to resolve the issue. As I state in my post HF 25 is almost done and HF 26 is coming up, it is time for people o think of solutions.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.I just read @tarazkp 's post, and your comment over there lead me here.
I just wanted to say that this is a fantastic counter-point to Taraz's take on things. Really wonderful perspective. Using a 'slap in the face' analogy to explain how good-hearted creators feel when being downvoted is excellent.
Because that is almost exactly how it feels to me. And so human nature for a person doing their best to create effortfully and honestly, who's suddenly 'slapped in the face', is indeed to 'snapback' rather intensely. And uncalled for downvotes could certainly scare away a significant number of creators.
Interestingly, I find myself agreeing with both of you. On the one hand, I'd love to see people be emotionally mature enough to realize no system is perfect, humans are flawed, and to take downvotes in stride as they continue to create content with a good heart.
On the other hand, I'd also like to see people upvoting things of merit, while giving 'benefit of the doubt' to most other content (outside of blatantly obvious trolls/bots/spam). I'd prefer to see people not using the 'power' of their downvote to hurt others, or to 'bury' or 'censor' ideas they simply disagree with.
I wonder if there's a middle-ground available? A best of both worlds? Unfortunately, the only solution I can think of is to "raise better humans."
Perhaps too tall an order for our current society.
Anyway, thanks for all the insight, I really appreciate it.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment, @ryzeonline. Perhaps it is a measure of emotional maturity to be well adjusted to a broken system. Then again, maybe not. You see, there is an initiation process that nubs get to endure when joining this platform, and it's all about those pesky downvotes. The old hands and whales will tell the new guy who has been struggling in relative obscurity for months-on-end to ignore the downvote that removed the rewards that got earmarked for their post, and this I believe is why we can't get mass adoption. They'll say things like, that's proof of brain doing what it does. And that's why I again had to point out that PoB is 50% borked from the jump. If you ask me—@bashadow's idea is high-level genius as it pertains to this particular issue.
My pleasure, thanks for your excellent post.
My point is all man-made systems are broken, every single one, so emotional maturity is literally the only viable response. At the same time I totally agree with you, downvotes heavily discourage mass adoption, and are generally a poor way to treat others.
His idea is helpful for sure. And I'd rather we have it in place, than be without it. The question is, is it helpful enough to magically resolve an issue that has existed in all systems since the beginning, though :)
Do you think of all human-made systems as broken? I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, granted, in the age of planned obsolescence, it can seem that way, but that's by design. I'm starting to think that this system is more of a behavioral social-psychology experiment, similar to the Milgram experiment. One that I might be actively failing as I continue to participate. Getting emotionally well-adjusted to the process of watching people have their potential (rewards) taken away from them in the digital space might be a test to either program people to accept this in the physical realm or to study how they might respond. Perhaps people on HIVE who've become accustomed to downvotes on their hard work will be better prepared to accept a social credit score where their UBI is adjusted based on their behavioral responses and obedience to arbitrary dictates given to them by technocrats. That, or maybe some people are just assholes for a living and ain't shit nobody can do about it because they operate under the fallacy that 'might makes right.' To whit, I'd say to these people, may you live in interesting times.
Yes, as earlier, I agree with the bulk of what you said in your original post, and this comment. :)
Just to clarify: By 'broken', I simply mean, unable to treat all of humanity fairly. People have been working on 'fair' justice systems since ancient times, still haven't managed it. Throwing code around, programmed by the same humans who've designed every other system, won't fix this. So unfair edge cases will always exist.
And the only solution I've come up with personally is 'stop breeding/raising assholes.' Much as it might be nice, no system can protect people from needing to strengthen their emotional intelligence.
One can simply study all systems since earliest civilization, or attempt to create a totally 'fair system' themselves, to discover the truth of this.
I think people should approach HIVE as if though it's a marketplace of ideas. If you don't like what someone is selling (saying), then maybe critique their work in a comment. Then show them with the way you upvote, that'll you'd rather buy from Sally's Pastry Shop instead. This type of behavior is a far cry and more correct than firebombing Betty's shop because you didn't like how she glazed your donut. When they added free downvotes and encouraged people to use them liberally outside of plagiarism and spam, it tainted the atmosphere, and it made things generally more toxic than they ought to be. @ryzeonline, if you want to get deep into thinking about this experiment. Watch The Orville episode called 'Majority rule,' either that or the Black Mirror episode 'Nose Dive.' It's interesting to consider and shows some terrifying consequences. And considering the Malthusian direction in which the world society is headed, if you want another less-related one, watch the Sliders episode called 'Luck of the Draw'.
Yep, I agree. I've seen all episodes of the Orville, including majority rule. The TV Show 'Community' tackled the subject matter as well. I agree with all of them. Being kind in the market is a 'no-brainer.' :)
Yelp, indeed. If you can ever remember the name of the community episode, I'd like to give it a watch.
My pleasure. It's Community, Season 5, Episode 8 - "App Development and Condiments" (Daily Motion has a very low-res version? https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vtca8 )
Thank you, Sir! -- Great episode, I found it both illuminating and terrifying.
My pleasure. The whole topic seems to contain seeds of both feelings. :)
Edit: A word.
the therory of the cia being behind the initial set up of steemit ties right in with this
@sift666, I didn't hear about that one, is there some content somewhere about it?
yes but i'm not sure if it has all disappeared into the black hole of discord...
i wrote a summary about two years ago, that i'll see if i can find
great how the guys getting huge rewards for endless boring shitposts think everyone needs to show maturity...
Lmao. Tarazkp helped inspire this post! That guy is a total clown. Both he, and his boyfriend are clowns. It's a comedy show I tell you. He is one of the guys that has no problem with any of this (and is a part of it, by using indirect methods), because he swims/is part of the collective abuse team, where they get to decide what is, or what is not acceptable content (or comments for that matter, where I was on the receiving end on one of his posts). They get 'others' to do the dirty work for them, so their name is not associated with the direct action.
The most hilarious and ironic part of this however, is that they circle-jerked with some groups or people, who created content similar to ours during their 'ass-licking' days, to get to where they are today. Isn't that weird? Well, maybe not! Because it makes complete sense!
However, now that they have so much influence on the brainwashed plebs who visit their blogs, they don't like any real competition to their own regurgitated content that is dressed up as some type of philosophical hub for blockchain newbies...
C'mon dude, if you want to learn how to be successful on this blockchain, then you must follow and use the knowledge of the Zen master himself. You can have it all, if you just follow all his golden rules, or "commandments".
Anyway, monopolies are great aren't they? These clowns, are now the official hive "fact checking" department, while at the same time bashing social media outlets like facebook/twitter for their centralisation/censorship. But they are acting in exactly the same way with their actions lmao....They have all that power and stake that is 'centralised' within these 'groups', or 'wallets' that can be used to decide on behalf of everyone else what is or what is not acceptable content. LOL, It's not censorship dude.
It's still on the chain where nobody can read it, or it has been downvoted off the trending feed so it gets less views. What is wrong with you. That is not censorship man.
That is the giant pile of crap they spread like a virus to all their followers, and unfortunately they buy it. And we both know the reason why!
It's too hilarious I tell you. That cognitive dissonance has been deep-rooted into the denial of their own entitlement, while telling all the plebs who dare compete with them, that they are not entitled to anything unless they conform to their own policy's and ideas.
That is how it all works, after you work your way up the ladder. By inserting yourself into all the special and untouchable circle-jerks, or what they like to call "community groups" aka "curation groups", then you basically are a part of/have a huge influence in all of them, then you have yourself a monopoly on the blockchain and it's perceived policy's. I say perceived, because that is the magic trick here. They spend their entire time on this blockchain, literally trying to brainwash their followers into thinking exactly like them. Unfortunately for their devoted followers, they are being hood-winked into falling for that magic trick. The magic trick that gets them to buy into the whole deal, that mainly benefits them and their special little circle, as long as they abide by the commandments of their leaders, at all times.....or else!!!
He is basically what I would call, a blockchain televangelist. Uses the same magic tricks as any religious/cult leader to get you to hand over your money (or in this case, votes for life).
Those guys do not give a shit about any of this...because it is profitable for them to NOT to give a shit about it. He constantly repeats this garbage on a cyclical basis, to make sure he keeps the plebs in line. If you want proof of how effective this garbage is, then read the comments of all their brainwashed followers. They literally go around defending them and their weak philosophical arguments without having any clue of why, they are being hood-winked.
Stop it with your entitlement! We have a monopoly on the rewards pools here! We are self-appointed spiritual leaders on a decentralised platform!
This is the mentality that justifies the excuse to remove rewards or punish the efforts of a content creator they either don't like or agree with, or have those rewards returned to the pool and redistributed back to the trending feeds. And those trending feeds are full of their own content/curation content that they are part of.
No self-interest there!
The poor plebs will always buy it though, because there is not other way to get their content monetised. It's a vicious circle that leaves them little choice. They need to go to the ZEN master and learn all the golden rules of success!
I just want to thank them in advance, for the downvote on this comment :)
https://peakd.com/hive/@frot/how-to-set-up-your-own-hive-curation-trail#@palikari123/re-frot-qoed67
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@khaleelkazi/tesla-buys-usd1-5b-bitcoin-apple-crypto-exchange-rumors-circulating-and-the-best-profit-taking-strategy#@palikari123/re-anthonyadavisii-qogh73
Well said, @palikari123. Thanks for the interaction on this post. It took about ten hours for me to write and a hot second for smooth to downvote it. I don't know much about Tarazkp, other than he writes well and clearly, but I one-hundred-percent disagree with his whole notion of don't fight (the downvotes), just let it happen. It's a massive turn-off to the platform.
Hopefully, someone will revolutionize the things and stuff to make people feel like they want to stay. I dig bashadows idea about taking it out of curation rewards. Let the whales fight the other whales, and (in my best Chris Crocker voice) "leave the minnows alone!" They'll learn at some point when some other platform gets it right, and they get forced to bite their style to survive.
Course by that time, they'll lose the first movers' advantage as if the steem/hive split didn't cause enough damage on its own. Not that-that was avoidable per se, just generally overall, shit is shitty. I'm far less worried about this HIVE stuff right now than I am with things on the world stage. Somebody has to put the breaks on this COVID-19 nonsense before there's nothing left to salvage.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful comment and interaction with this post. I know this topic is just as close to your heart as it is mine. And for any jokers who think that "I'm just in it for the rewards," I haven't taken a dime of hive to the market. But after today's events, I'm certainly not engendered to power it up either. Fuck it. It'll be what it is and remain what it isn't until someone unborks it.
Even though I have issues with some characters/and or groups on this blockchain, I still think it has a lot of potential and it has a lot going for it, other than a blogging space as we are now witnessing. Some of the development that is ongoing is definitely a huge positive. There are many positives, amongst the few negatives that overshadow it all.
These guys don't care because they are in a comfortable and influential position around here, and would rather hood-wink/lie about the reasons why it happens - it is simply not in their interests to say anything other than what you quoted above.
They have an elitist mentality - the same mentality they accuse the influential powers in the real world of using against the masses. This is no different. They are playing god with their stake and influence on a blockchain where they control content and rewards distribution.
Trying to sell the idea that it's not censorship is totally absurd.
Well said.
If I found men attractive (and if I had a uterus), your recent comments would probably make me want to have your babies...!!!...lolol
i knew you were a tranny
don't tell everyone !
And a blue tranny too...i thought you were red
🤣
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.“ — Joseph Goebbels
Source: https://quotepark.com/quotes/1789432-joseph-goebbels-if-you-repeat-a-lie-often-enough-people-will-beli/
your comments, with some very rancid pictures, could be an epic post
I'm sure it would lol. At this point however, I think I would just be feeding the beast by giving them any more attention or clicks than they deserve. Seriously, that's not me being weak, I just don't want to give them any satisfaction out of talking about them, or boosting their overgrown ego's and power trip. I think they feed of it. I've already confronted them directly a couple of times (in a very aggressive way in retaliation to their force and intimidation tactics - because logic doesn't work), and it makes no difference. They are just dumb cunts, end of story.
I have made quite a few open comments about it on posts with good views, so people understand my position in general at this point. I also think it's very much a catch 22 situation. I loved blogging and more importantly researching/sharing knowledge, but I also don't want it to be monetised on here. It's become a principle thing with me. But who knows, maybe I will change my mind.
I know what you mean - I had a bit of a go at them on Steemit, and it didn't work well for this account!
Curation rewards are the root of the problem. End curation rewards. Problem solved.
I very much appreciate the lucidity with which you address this issue. It has sparked a conversation of great value, ranging across the entirety of human endeavor and history.
Also, you're right.
Thanks!
I very much appreciate your willingness to read it! Oh that kind of gets into bashadows idea, which is clever af!
100% THIS.
An interesting take @palikari123 of which more than hints at what many of us here on the chain for quite a while openly agree with, or secretly due to fear of being targeted by such malevolent characters that have hijacked this this platform.
That is the giant pile of crap they spread like a virus to all their followers, and unfortunately they buy it.
No self-interest there!
Good points... and unfortunately TRUE...
This is the saddest part of all. It is mostly based on fear and intimidation tactics. With cover stories, that hide the true nature of the reasons and the who's and why's. This is something that a decentralised platform is not supposed to be about. It is supposed to be based around mutual respect and peaceful interaction between like minded individuals and real communities (and at times constructive/heated debate) - not a minority of powerful wallets, who are now interfering with all decentralised communities, because they decided they are superior to everyone else and have the ability to control them through curation groups (that structure should now no longer exist with the new implementation of decentralised communities). This is where you can see all of the old or original entitled structures and special circles, building a wall around themselves as a defence mechanism to any criticism, by using their huge cumulative stake to control the platform's echo-system.....mainly for their own benefit.
But all you will hear are diversions and straw man arguments around these issues.
I'm also saddened to say that this is not a battle any of us will be winning anytime soon. It's too late for that as it currently stands, as these accounts are just way too powerful. And other large individual stakeholders who may not agree with them, are also in an awkward situation of not being able to talk about it/disagree publicly, for fear of retribution as well.
I myself have been called toxic on this platform by some because of my aggressive approach in defending myself and my anti-authoritarian values. It may go against the notion of peaceful interaction on face value, but I do it deliberately as a way to show them I am not going to be easily intimidated, and that their actions are the actions of control freaks, which I will not back down to. If you give them an inch, they will walk all over you without even thinking about it. They may be able to crush my voice with their stake, but I will not shut my mouth if they attack me directly and on a personal level.
Even though I stopped blogging myself, I have my own good reasons for it. I am not scared to confront them as you can see in some of my previous exchanges with a few of them. I they attack me, I will return fire, even harder. If they insult me, I will insult them back even harder. The way I see it, is if I continued to post my content on a platform that is hypocritical or antithetical to what it supposedly stands for, then I will not feed the beast. I also don't think I should put in all of that work into research pieces that may take a few days to complete from start to finish, if these people are the going to act in a way that censors that content in some way. I don't care if it's a 50 cent downvote or a $50 downvote. By downvoting ones content for any amount, they are automatically downgrading you as a content creator, and as an inferior platform user to themselves.
That is what they thrive on. Fear and intimidaton. So my so-called "toxicity" is my way of vigorously defending myself against their own abuse - unfortunately that comes with a price, and many don't agree with that stance or reaction.
But this is not only a phenomena in the blogging space. You will be amazed at how many wannabe dictators live in the dark recesses of discord, and how they are trying to find and use the same methods to control new and emerging communities or groups. I can tell you first hand, that many have taken this model and are using it as a template in their own niche areas of the hive echo-system. I know, because I have been on the receiving end and dealing with a case of intimidation and group force for the last 2 years on discord. Including my own kangaroo court sessions, by people who didn't like me calling out their dirty laundry. Discord is the ultimate way of silencing others, with the technological use of the discord panopticon. There are a lot of control freaks/authoritarians and power trippers out there. Be careful!
I certainly understand your frustrations and disappointment with these aspects. It seems that many are and I suspect, many more who never express it, choose to leave the platform in silence.
Absolutely guaranteed! Although I should say, I have not completely left the platform. I am still around in the background in some form to a lesser extent. I still have some interests in splinterlands. I have recently been building up my follower list once again, to try and get a sense of what is going on. Looks like I missed some of the actions while I wasn't paying closer attention.
Yeah, I know your message. Spending hours or days of research just to get, what seems to me, a blind downvote for no reason. When I get an upvote, I assume someone likes what I've written and trusted the quality of my content. The concept is pretty straightforward to me. I'm a little more attentive about the downvote because it does reduce my reward.
In my comment from tarazkp's post, I added that at least explain why the downvote was issued. If there's a negotiation period, then the person downvoting should explain the reasoning. If I can adjust the content on my next posting I will or just deal with the downvote if I don't agree with it.
If it's something like you mentioned, then maybe clarify the reasoning. How confusing is it to read that "your rewards are too high" with next to no explanation? I see plenty of postings with significant earnings that aren't downvoted.
I also noticed that your detractor reviewed your post. It speaks volumes.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter, @scholaris!
You are very welcome. More importantly, I think, thank you for your post.
Ahh, you found my typo! : -)
I fear you give me too much credit. I saw no typo. I'm not that observant so early in the morning with kids and a mischievous dog. Maybe mischievous kids too.
Ahh, you think-thanked me, and I "think you" to someone for one of their comments earlier, but just minutes before your post I went backed in and fixed my spelling error. Too funny!
Oh ok lol. I was thanking you for your post as it inspired my comment. What a coincidence about the typo.
There is an advantage to getting involved with the POB community. I see you have 31 POB. AFAIK, even someone with a large Hive stake cannot influence your reward in POB. See our discussions on self voting. I don't down-vote people according to their belief systems.
It comes down to:
As long as the hive whales don't buy up a bunch of POB, we'll be okay.
Ahh, thank you for sharing that info, @leprechaun!
@thoughts-in-time, I he see he gave you another downvote here on this post, this time not possibly for 'excessive rewards'... How much you wanna bet the first was punishment for voicing dissenting vaccine opinion (truth) rather than 'excessive reward'. He's hit my 2 most recent posts, both extremely well sourced and info-packed articles exposing the corona and 'vaccine' scam, so I wonder if it is partial reward policing and part punishment for difference of opinion. In any event, you're right, great post, rewarding good content will do far more to encourage growth here than punishing high rewards. Isn't high rewards to be an incentive to reach for, rather than an accomplishment to bring about punishment? Pathetic people feel the need to use power in such a negative way, rather than supporting content they find to be deserving of high payouts. I wish there was a tool to search for upvote/downvote history, as I'd like to see who this guy upvotes, if anyone. I say scrap the downvote function, before hive is barren of all the good users who flee this negative and arguably tyrannical environment for greener grass. many are leaving because of this, I don't see how this downvote behavior helps anyone, regardless of it being the 'right' of the stakeholder to use their weight for whatever purpose they deem useful...
https://hiveblocks.com/@smooth
Hey, @jasonliberty, thank you for your thoughtful reply! I completely agree with you that the entire experience is very demoralizing, especially if you put forth a lot of effort into a post. I also notice a pattern with the types of material he seems to be downvoting. Here is the tool you are looking for; in the first set of tabs in the middle, go to operations. On the left side, choose "out," you can also specify which day and the voting pattern will present itself. Thanks for your compliment. I enjoy your content also! The one @logiczombie posted works well too.
yesterday...One of many....it's putrid.
An argument could be made that the intention is not to grow, but to simply 'feed the beast' (the in crowd)...
keep fighting, the vaxtards are shitting themselves
Well said! I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to see downvotes, especially ones as heavy as you’ve received. Also, I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen a downvote followed by a comment to explain why it been given and that’s just cowardice in my book. Like you put it, you can do much better by ignoring what you don’t like and concentrate on what you do like. Upvote the shit out some pro-vaccine post and reblog it all the way home, that is a fair reaction. What isn’t fair is running up behind someone a tripping them over with a massive down vote. People like this will ruin hive if they get their way.
@article61, thanks for your thoughtful feedback!
"People like this will ruin hive if they get their way."What you said: That's exactly what I'm worried about!
@smooth has been here from the beginning I think, and has been consistent in his preferences iirc. People like this have made Hive what it is, both it's promise and it's failure to achieve it, and that's the truth.
Something I have attained as a result of the value of my writing being adjusted here by @smooth and others is the realization that I do not write for financial rewards, and such attention is far more valuable to me than money.
A man is justified by his foes. The truth is proven by them lying to disprove it. Advocates for vaccine safety know this as well as anyone.
I have grown to appreciate criticism far more than tokens, and it is the lack of forthright criticism accompanying the flags flown on my blog that dismays me most. YMMV, but Hive's true value isn't it's token. It's the community and the conversations we undertake.
Too often flags fly and those conversations don't ensue, or far too little exposition of the matters at issue is undertaken. This aspect of flagging in no way diminishes @thoughts-in-time 's points. It's another aspect of the market, but actually of more value IMHO.
The market for the truth is not valued in dollars, nor Hive. Like mothers, the truth has far more value than money.
Not many I know are able to grasp the value of criticism in this way, and certainly few are happy to be flagged here on Hive, but for folks that post for reasons other than money, the value of dissent cannot be overstated.
I make money with a hammer. I tell the truth as I see it with a keyboard.
To me, them dispelling my misunderstandings do me a great service. Sadly, too few bother when they can just fly a flag and move on.
Thanks for posting for the right reasons. The real rewards for doing that are more valuable than all the Hive tokens in the world.
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback, @valued-customer, and well said! Great to see you again!
....start tagging with @proofofbrain , matey - you definitively qualify !
Nice to see you again !
I hope is all as well as it can be.
Hello @valued-customer, it’s good to hear from you. I agree with your sentiments here, I really do and reading your comment is a slap in the face(in a good way) to remind me of the real world consequences of speaking out. Nonetheless I have to disagree when putting your ethos against a platform like hive. Now, I’m going to choose my words carefully as I respect you.
IMO what you’re saying is that we should simply ignore what @smooth and others like him are doing and carry on regardless or even wear his flag as a badge. Now that is all good and well for an established account with a following because your message is your weapon and no flag can take that away. But what for those just starting out? And what for those looking in from the outside? If I’d have seen this behaviour on day one of my hive/steem journey I’d have looked elsewhere and branded hive just another controlled platform no different to Facebook. What’s happening here is nothing less than a Twitter shadow ban or a YouTube 3rd strike and if we stand for free speech shouldn’t this be something to speak out against rather than ignored? The whole point of hive is to incentivise users to add content without fear of being muted and now we see exactly the opposite happening. That’s not right.
At the end of the day we have come here for an adult conversation and what’s happening when it comes to downvotes is anything but. Yes, downvotes have a purpose but that purpose has been abused so maybe we need to pushback against it. If we don’t, we might just be left here holding our balls with nobody left to see how big they are...
Haha! I think I just enjoy an argument but I guess that’s kind of the same beast. Nonetheless, Thanks for the beats 😎👊
If I dug into my long catalog of comments I would certainly find similar concerns regarding new accounts. I absolutely agree.
However, I cannot recommend nor undertake to control the stake of another. All I control is what is mine, and that is what I recommend. If all the choices you can make are either to ignore flags or wear them like badges, then make your choice. Like all else in life, Hive is not fair. What we do when abused is our measure.
I have chosen to post and comment as I reckon true and useful, and it is my expectation that a day will come when none will be cruel, ignorant, or liars. I do not expect that day to come to Hive, or before my death.
Even so, I live and breathe as if it has come, as I am able. Such regrets as I have are caution against acquiring more by speaking ill, and it is enough to manage my own exertions. I have no business commanding others how to undertake theirs.
I hope flags and insults are too little to dislodge you, and others from whose words I gain, from Hive.
Thanks!
Hi @valued-customer! While I don't have much to add to this discussion atm, I'm 100% positive I remember your writings from steem, and I think they were in fact, similar. I'm (probably) back after a ~1yr break and it's really heartening to see you're not outta here. Re criticism.. people don't like being told it's not good. It's deeply rooted and hard to overcome. We've got a cultural pressure on good/best/etc, everything everywhere is scored and judged, and, criticism, especially public, is often viewed as negative & aggressive, because of three things:
I sometimes really wish we all learnt from the very beginning to react with "thank you, care to explain?" when hearing "you're doing it wrong" instead of fighting back and defending our PoV.
Criticism is all too often not constructive. Not to play too much on words, but it was working in construction that impelled me to more appreciate criticism, as there is always a better way to make and fix things. The rough characters in the trade necessitated thickening my skin to be able to benefit from their teaching, and in time I realized that insults are without either merit or onus, as if they are true they are not insults at all, but factual statements, and if they are not they do not apply.
Thanks!
Don't take it to heart. I think all this happened because of few Steem accounts upvoting your content. The idea was to neutralize their share which was not a bright idea.
Anyway, if you haven't noticed, few Steem accounts are here to farm Hive while there are few Hive accounts which go to Steemit to farm Steem. Both try to down vote the other. You just got caught in the cross-fires.
Interesting theory, @oivas. That's entirely possible, thanks for the feedback!
Yup, you take care. Your content is cool, by the way!
😊
Thanks, you|rs| too!