A deeper look into self-voting in Proof of Brain

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What do you think about when you're self-voting?

If we are honest people, when we self-vote, we might want to give ourselves as much value as we think that content is worth. But is it really worth that much? Our judgement is clouded. Let's say we could give ourselves 100 dollars as a 100% upvote for a 4-paragraph post. We would be tempted to do so, at the very least, even if it's not right. The problem with self-voting is the conflict of interest.

But most people are not naturally good-hearted. They are neutral. They tend to selfishness instead of "what's right". Conflict of interest is a much bigger problem here. And it grows even larger when it comes to those who are ill-inclined.

However, when we upvote someone else, we almost always upvote for less than we would like. Because we want to distribute our upvotes. We seek the best content that will net the most bang for our vote. Suddenly, networking comes into play. We are more likely to seek certain people who always write good content, people who have voted for us, people who are staking instead of selling.

We also search more aggressively for quality so that, by voting on soon-to-be popular content, we get more value from curation because of how shared curation works. After all, if we upvote something before all others do, we get a larger share of the curation rewards for that post. Now that's what curating is all about. The exact opposite of mindless self-voting.

I currently self-upvote my posts (not comments) and I will continue to do so unless the community decides against this practice. I am against it too, but since there are bad actors around, competing with them is more important at this moment. They'd just take over otherwise.


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Those who upvote themselves for low quality or rehashed content are what I have a problem with, but self voting quality content like yours seems like a perfectly fine thing to do, even though I don't do it myself.

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Let people pay themselves to lick their own balls, part of the decentralized freedom privilege.

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(Edited)

Can't let the community become their balls, though. There is a line! If these guys become the main curators, there will be no line, just licking.

I don't like this metaphor. :(


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Well that's your opinion and I don't agree nor disagree with it. I like the part where people are free to upvote and downvote who they want and whenever they want as voting is an expression of freedom.

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(Edited)

That's okay in some contexts, like in hive. But not others, like in "Proof of Brain".


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If they are voting thier own posts, I'll take care of those who aren't.


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The pet peeve I have with people that self vote is just how inflated one can be with their content instead of letting the community decide on how much they want to appreciate the content. Whether one self votes or chooses to support others, upvotes or downvotes, it's all part of the decentralized freedom to express and it's fine.

I just don't like seeing people go reeee asking whether it's really possible that somewhere out there, there are people that actually dislike their content and don't think it's worth the rewarding?!

It's always been like that and the argument goes back to how rewards should be distributed. I think it's great that people like you would go out of your way not to subscribe to the trend and would opt to give support for other community members.

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It's always been like that and the argument goes back to how rewards should be distributed.

Yup. In general, as wide distribution as possible (more or less unlimited in its range right now) in the early stages = greater success in the long term.


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As a non-orca or whale, self-voting doesn't matter so much. What difference would that one or two pob make?

I'd make roughly the same amount voting for two others I think but different strokes for different folks, I suppose.


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Scalable responsibilities, this is what makes it complex. "One rule for him, one rule for me? What?" That's how it's perceived, and we all know that quantity of stake size doesn't equate symmetrically to quality of intelligence.

My thoughts... and these are just preferences I'd like to see personally... 60/40 reward split (based on feedback from the 75/25 post), self-votes removed altogether, algorithm incorporated to reduce vote weight when repeat voting a similar author within a 24 hour period, shadow mute when certain abuse factors are met (ie. dot spamming etc).


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That's true. The current system puts a lot of faith on the actions of the big accounts.

The suggestions are all good and would provide a framework around the behavior that everyone abides by. That said, given the accusations lobbied at one of the new whales, he'd be able to bypass all of them. Not following in detail at this point but it looks like a wild ride.


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I got the greenlight after weeks of a rather ethics challenge (easy for me) to not self uv. Now I can and did 3 because I don't make a ton nor a little but honestly it would be interesting to totally ban self uv for a month just to see what happens. A social experiment which is imho what a ton of the basis of a lot of dpos platforms may actually be. Hope you enjoyed your vacay, am ready to take mine :) It was said yesterday I believe that it will remain 50/50 so who knows.

I was told there was a major sell off, maybe I'm not seeing it, shrug O.o
take care,
axey


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Hope you enjoyed your vacay, am ready to take mine

It has been amazing. Much-needed disconnect (and I've got a glowing tan). It's given me a lot to think about for when I get back home.

Not too sure about any major sell-offs, guess we'll see how this month plays out.


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oh yeah, getting away from what amounts to lord of the flies is good, I was told in chat that there was a huge sell off so no clue and and am doing other things (not remotely related to hive,dippin' in).........anyhow, OH YES on perspective.
I post when I feel like it which is not now :) glad you got a nice tan, I need to get one too. I see what NOT disconnecting does to people. We weren't made to be psychos chasing after stuff on the internet 24/7. On that note am going to go chill in my garden for a bit. :)


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You could also say "I'd make double as much if I always voted for myself". Considering we're in high-curation stage, that is massive and dangerous.


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Yes, that's a good point. If he were just focusing on guaranteed rewards, self-voting would be more beneficial. And it becomes a returns play on the initial investment into pob.

10,000 pob power probably allows a return of 100 pob daily if one were to self upvote 10x per day.


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10,000 pob power probably allows a return of 100 pob daily if one were to self upvote 10x per day

100? I think it would be close to 160 POB these days. But it is going down


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Vou escrever em português porque eu sei que tu é brasileiro (ou tipo isso haha)

Esse tipo de assunto já ocorreu aqui alguns meses atrás e e estava em alta com várias discussões do que era certo ou errado. O que bem na verdade não existe um certo ou errado e esse assunto iria se estender...

Mas, naquela época uma das coisas que ficou clara é. Seria "errado" alguém com bom poder de voto ficar dando 100% no seus próprios post (e nem sempre de boa qualidade) e no "fingimento" da curadoria dele ficar votando baixo nos dos outros... Isso para a sociedade em si, bom senso e bom crescimento não é legal.

Sou da pessoa que não vejo nada contra votar a si mesmo, tanto que faça algo bom para os outros também na mesma ou maior quantidade xD

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(Edited)

Sim, concordo em boa parte. E falei especialmente sobre a diferença do processo mental de votar em si e nos outros.


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"Autocurtidas" pra mim é narcisismo. Mesmo que se ganhe alguma fração de centavo com isso.

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PS: Não precisa me acusar de hipocrisia por ter feito/fazer isso as vezes. Posso muito bem criticar atitudes cometidas por mim mesmo.

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To say the truth, no one really owes anyone an apology for voting themselves, i mean its their money, their stake, their investment whether its quality or trash they are voting for themselves.
But personally I don't even like voting for myself and though my votes might not really amount to a tangible thing but i still don't think i would take pleasure in upvoting myself when i have good stake.
But all the same, its a personal thing to deal with and the system has no rules against self voting so anyone can do as he or she pleases with their upvotes


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(Edited)

no one really owes anyone an apology for voting themselves [...] their investment whether its quality or trash

This is said within the Proof of Brain environment for the POB token, though. Your affirmation is fundamentally against Proof of Brain's ideals. You're basically saying "self-vote? fuck thinking! fuck quality! just self-vote". Sketchy.


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To be candid from my own view i think it's personal thing since the system has no rules against self voting .. anyone can pleases with their upvotes.


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But personally I don't even like voting for myself and though my votes might not really amount to a tangible thing but i still don't think i would take pleasure in upvoting myself when i have good stake.

I guess you didn't read this part in the comment did you?

I don't take any pleasure in self voting so when you ask if I basically agree to self vote then it gets me worried if you didn't get my point or what?

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no one really owes anyone an apology for voting themselves [...] whether its quality or trash


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That was based on general terms. I started my personal ideology about that. But it's still okay if you don't get it.
I rest my case for peace to reign :)

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This was posted under the context of the POB tribe, but you're commenting as if it isn't. Considering what the POB ideals are, the irony of this is saddening.

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Is it really worth self-voting for you? It may not add a huge amount and it may put others off supporting you. Doing something just because others do it is not the best excuse. If you care about Hive then do what you think is best for the platform. Doing so may be appreciated by the community.

We have the option of downvotes if people excessively self-vote. Some are sneaky and o it after six days, but that can be detected by scripts.

I do not self-vote at all and most of my voting is manual.

I will give you a small vote. It would have been more if you had not self-voted.

!BEER

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You say:

Doing something just because others do it is not the best excuse.

This is from this post:

since there are bad actors around, competing with them is more important at this moment

Do you understand there is a difference? If you can't see there is a difference, then we are not on the same page and there is no reason to create an argument about it.

We have the option of downvotes if people excessively self-vote. Some are sneaky and o it after six days, but that can be detected by scripts.

Everyone who is not a whale knows this doesn't work against whales. Worst case scenario is they get angry and start downvoting us back. So that's one more thing we won't be discussing.


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Competing with 'bad actors' like that could make you one of them. I'm not prepared to risk what reputation I've built by doing that. I will probably make more if I keep the support I have.

I have downvoted big accounts. As a community we drove haejin away from posting here as he self-voted every post and was making up to $1000 per day! There was some retaliation, but it worked in the end. Most of the remaining whales care about Hive, but I know some big accounts still self-vote. They probably don't do it more than once per day and vote up lots of others.

Hive is not always fair, but it has potential if we want to make it better.

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(Edited)

Competing with 'bad actors' like that could make you one of them.

I have downvoted big accounts

You have back up. You know you have back up. When you say "community", you are talking about a few big people. If you're not onboard with my perspective, then I don't get any back up when I make a move. If I am not "sided" with "a few big people"'s views, there won't be any back up. Some may get heal votes, but you are not going to make a move against a bad actor who is much stronger than you, unless those few big people have your back. Hive does not work the same way for all people. If I act in a way the people who have your back don't agree with, I might get in trouble, even if I see it as the right thing to do for the hive ecosystem. I'd have to convince you guys. I don't want to ever go through a conversation involving what is "the right thing to do" if it's with one of you from "community". From where I see things, you guys are only trouble and you are usually wrong about what would make hive prosper. The whole steem spectacle is the best example of all. I am not part of this so-called "community", disagreeing with this "community" group does not make me a bad actor, and self-voting does not make me a bad actor. You guys do not have any credibility to tell me otherwise, but you do have the downvote power to shut me down permanently, like certain people have proven in the past until I have to fucking make an apology post before that piece of shit would stop downvoting me. Where was the "community" then? I am not going to carry this conversation any further - with any of you.

PS: No, I wasn't doing anything wrong when that asshole started stomping me to the ground. He just didn't want me commenting my views on his posts. It was simply spite. "Community." Don't patronize me.

Edited for better cohesion.

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