COVID-19: "Post-COVID World," Losses Mount, and now "Phase Four?"
Having last written about this "slow-moving hurricane" on March 23rd, where are we today? Listening to a growing chorus of all the different ways you can say "the world will not be the same," after this global pandemic is behind us.
Anyone wish to tell me "Oh, that's way too overstated @roleerob!"? Are you sure about that, dear reader?
Given my family's agricultural background, the news report above stood out to us. One of the many unintended (?) consequences, of what is being done in response to COVID-19, are massive disruptions to our various supply chains. In this case our food ...
While the "Almighty State" can pretend it can get away with printing money, what about all of the resulting losses of economic output from the "lockdown?" Can it also "print food?" No, of course it can't ...
Before continuing with this post, here is a bit of what I said in my first 3 COVID-19 posts:
Sunday, March 15th (Day 1):
We are told the protection of our health is the one and only objective of all of these unprecedented actions. With no one questioning (at least that "we" are ever going to hear from ...) what the unintended (?) consequences might be. "We the sheeple" are dutifully falling in line and complying with all of it. With nary a bleat to be heard anywhere ... Because, of course, "everybody knows" ...Friday, March 20th (Day 6):
In response to Covid-19, the United States is proposing spending measures that have never been attempted before now. With much of the world appearing to be following their own version of the same "plan." Note well, dear reader, the "plan" is not to solve the almost insurmountable debt problems we already have, but instead drive them to staggering new heights.Monday, March 23rd (Day 8):
In war, people continue on with their lives. In the best way they can individually manage, under hellacious circumstances. In the midst of these tragic times, there are heroes. And there are those who fall under the simple label of "collateral damage" ...
The overly used word "unprecedented" in these tumultuous times is now being replaced with ... wait for it ... Sacrifice! Of course. Soon enough, to be followed by another "S" word. Suffering.
Since writing these posts, I have spent less time "in here" and more time "out there" in the real world, with my immediate family, extended family, and friends. Dealing with the consequences of our government's decision to largely "lockdown" America.
This morning, with the close of ~ Day 30 yesterday, I will write a brief update on what's going on here around us, as our world continues to experience the global reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Financial Consequences
Surely the trillions of USD thrown into the "war" on our "invisible enemy" has turned the tide in our favor. The Federal Reserve has taken a number of "unprecedented" steps. The U. S. Government has taken a number of "unprecedented" steps.
We're "good to go," right?
- Stock market losses reached levels exceeding those of the Great Depression, as "unprecedented" market volatility shakes the global financial system.
- The Federal Reserve promises to do "whatever it takes" to address the COVID-19 crisis, including the use of financial "bazookas" ...
- By April 3rd, it was reported 24% of small businesses were already temporarily shut down. With the potential for another 40% to close within 2 to 3 weeks. Scariest of all:
"Forty-three percent believe they have less than six months until a permanent shutdown is unavoidable. Nearly half of small businesses (46%) believe it will take the U.S. economy six months to a year to return to normal." - U. S. Chamber of Commerce - The previous ATH of 17 million Americans unemployed has now risen to 22 million, "as economy sinks" ...
Hmmm, I guess not. Well, has the Federal Reserve "thrown in the towel?" Has the U. S. Government said "enough!" and changed course? What would be your first guess, dear reader?
Phase Four" anyone?
Here's what else DC power players want to cram into the bill — and who would benefit most."
"Everyone" is coming "out of the woodwork" to weigh in on what should be included in Phase 4. In executing Phase 1, 2, and 3, our "fearless leaders" were merely "warming up in the bull pen." It is incredible the scope of what is being seriously proposed.
Even President Trump and the Republican Party leadership, decrying the Democrats adding a bunch of "non-essential" items to previous legislation, are now talking about using Phase 4 for all sorts of wonderful new ideas. Like, for example, completely rebuilding the infrastructure of America and spending trillions of USD more to do it ...
I won't spend any more of my or your valuable time to dig into further details because, as this is written, this legislation is once again "bogged down" behind the scenes in smoke-filled rooms, while our futures are being determined. With the inevitable state-selected "winners and losers" being strenuously debated back and forth ...
Supply Chain Consequences
In many countries around the world, we have deceived ourselves to think we can forever print money, creating "something out of nothing" and have it all turn out just fine. After all, if we don't look too closely, it has all been working out well so far, right? Modern Monetary Theory anyone?
Setting the supply of money aside, what about the supply of everything else? In this era of the remarkable complexity and interrelations amongst all the producers of these items? Commonly utilizing the principles of Kanban "just in time" inventory systems to keep costs at a minimum?
Can't we just "print" it? No ...
Growing food, for example, doesn't even pretend to lend itself to any of this nonsense at all. And if not efficiently distributed, once grown and ready to eat? It tends not to have a long shelf-life either. See the lead image and story above ...
In North America:
"Today, conventional wisdom is that the average city in North America has a three-day supply of fresh food (dried, canned and other preserved food supplies will last a bit longer). This, according to some, means that we are all only ever “nine meals from anarchy.” Luckily, North American grocery stores have sophisticated supply chains so no one is seriously suggesting that the panicked purchasing of the last few days that has emptied shelves will persist. Nevertheless, the systems we depend upon are, in many ways, fragile and inherently vulnerable."
The Conversation Post, 17 March 2020 [emphasis added mine]
Anyone even remotely familiar with the all-important agricultural industry knows we are entering the time of year to begin planting, for a new growing season. While heavy automation helps in a number of ways, it is not all automated. Laborers are needed.
Then, we will have the need to harvest. Again, while there are automated aspects of this mission-critical process, there is also a lot of manual labor involved, as referenced above. What is the "Almighty State" proposing to do about that?
I have obviously only barely scratched the surface of this topic. And focused only lightly on food, which is a universal supply issue. I haven't even started on other critical supply issues, e.g. medical supplies ...
It is enough to convey the general idea of how massive the challenges are we face in having chosen to "lock down" much of the world. The clock is ticking ...
How do we get out of this mess? Free people up to return to work! To pretend there is an alternative to that basic statement borders on insanity. Or worse ...
Having "locked down" much of the world, to supposedly protect us from COVID-19, how do we do that?
State-issued "Certificates of Immunity" anyone? No? Okay, how about "COVID Passports" then? Do you need more than a few moments, dear reader, to consider all the complexity involved in getting everyone tested, under some nightmarish new bureaucratic process?
Of course, only after a test has been developed that is:
- Reliably and consistently accurate, and
- Produced in sufficient quantities and efficiently distributed across the planet?
No pressure. Take all the time you need ...
Given how well all of the global response is working out so far, what could possibly go wrong ...
Global Consequences
With the United States having achieved the unenviable position of suffering the most ("honestly" reported?) COVID-19 deaths, China has slowly but steadily received more and more attention, due to its alleged role in its origin:
- How accurately are deaths being reported worldwide, particularly in China?
- Claims are growing louder and stronger that the Wuhan Virology Lab was the source of COVID-19.
- Growing demand for accountability, all the way up to reports of consideration being given to "waiving" repayment of international loans provided by the Chinese, to recoup the "unprecedented" global costs of COIVD-19 and their cover-up of its seriousness, until it was too late.
Surely, the Chinese Communist Party and the Chinese people's President for Life, Xi Jinping, will have no problem, with whatever is decided. Right?
While America's financial losses have already been staggering, reportedly the conditions are even worse in other countries around the world.
- Japan is in a "severe situation" and is "extremely depressed."
- In the European Union, with a report that the "coronavirus outbreak is having a profoundly negative impact on people’s livelihoods, on companies of all sizes and on economic growth", the response appears to be similar to that of the United States.
- Overall, the picture is grim with a report the "World economy in 2020 to suffer worst year since 1930s Great Depression ..."
We all have our perspectives on what it is like to participate with others "all over the world" in adding value to our Hive blockchain. In doing so, we can easily read the personal stories of others and the impact this pandemic is having on people "in here" and their families.
Many have already lost their jobs altogether, been laid off, or furloughed. This is at the end of approximately the first 30 days ... What does the future hold?
As stated in past writings, I have long been interested in history, in general, and military history, in particular. Have you ever read about some of the "sparks" resulting in outbreaks of full-fledged war?
In this "tinderbox" of problems, all over the world, do you think the seeds of World War III are being sown? While perhaps not so obvious today, what about the impact of growing shortages in the supply chains of needed goods all over the world? What about tomorrow?
There are already stories, even here on the Hive blockchain, over the impact of these shortages. Even though, at the moment, they are still relatively non-threatening. Again, what does the future hold?
Personal Impact
Is it possible, even in the relatively short time frame of 30 days, there is someone, somewhere in the world, whose lives have not been personally impacted by the global response to COVID-19?
Hard to imagine ...
- The impact on my own family is growing:
- Even though we are theoretically in the "high risk" category ourselves, my beloved lifemate continues to faithfully serve daily in her role as a healthcare provider for the elderly, i.e. even older than we are. And definitely more fragile health-wise ...
- Three of our children are directly impacted by the "Paycheck Protection Program" [PPP]. 2 as business owners. The 3rd as an SBA Loan Officer for a bank (while their spouse has been indefinitely laid off). All have been overwhelmed by the complexity of compliance for obtaining the "free" money ...
- Another child, with the failure to find work and generate income, is facing the sale of their home and a move ...
- A member of our church family passed away from complications linked to COVID-19, the only fatality in our circle of contacts.
- Our church family is experiencing an increasing amount of stress in two directions - the emotional and mental impact on every type of "first responder" position held and the financial impact on those who are no longer employed.
- Our own personal financial losses have been substantial ...
- While contact via the remarkable digital devices we have available to us at this point in man's history are nice, they are simply incapable of satisfactorily replacing time with loved ones.
I am very thankful, in the midst of this gathering storm, for the closeness of my family and my friends. I hope you, dear reader, have close associations with others in your life. In whom you have trust and upon whom you can count to "be there," in bonding together, to help you get through what we are already experiencing.
And what is coming ...
Photo: "Spring" day, here at home, on 16 March 2020. Great day for posting ...
As a follower of Christ, I do not have any fear of the future. I am settled on knowing that God has ordained what is happening. And what is coming. The outcome is in His hands.
Closing
After only 30 days of "unprecedented" this, that, and the other thing, America is in a state of upheaval only matched (possibly) in history by times of an actual war. Right?
Yes, certainly to this "old warhorse," except for one "teeny weeny" difference:
We did this
to
ourselves!
to
ourselves!
As the losses continue to mount, in general, and the impact of major disruptions on our supply chains "come home to roost," in particular, I predict those finally starting to ask "what are we doing?" is going to grow dramatically in number.
It is very sobering to me to consider what people are going to feel compelled to do, as this crisis grows more acute. And what the "Almighty State" and our "fearless leaders" are then going to justify doing in response. All while we receive an increasing number of calls for and reports to prepare for a "new normal" in the "post-COVID" world ...
I’d love to hear any feedback you may be inspired to provide.
Respectfully,
Hivian @roleerob
🐝 🍯 🐝
P.S. As soon as "Spring" returns, I am really looking forward to getting back to work on our "Back to Eden" garden. Which now seems to be a far more important activity than when we started into it last summer. Here in America, during World War II, these were referred to as "victory gardens!"
P.P.S. As this is being published, there are reports President Trump is laying out the "guidelines" for "Opening up America Again" in three phases, which the 50 State Governors are to use in determining when to "reopen" their states and allow their citizens to return to work.
Posted using PeakD and “immutably enshrined in the Hive blockchain” on Thursday, 16 April 2020!
Interested in reading more of my related posts?
| Lead Image | Title, Link, & Summary |
|---|---|
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Day 1: COVID-19: Out of the News, Into our Lives at Home ...
Summary: With alarming speed, COVID-19, the "Coronavirus disease," went from the news in China to a pandemic here at home. What are the implications of the unprecedented response to it?
|
 |
Day 6: COVID-19: Pandemic Defense and "Helicopter Money"
Summary: How many times can a writer use the word unprecedented to describe what they are experiencing? Trillions of dollars promised, up to and including "helicopter money!"
|
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Day 8: COVID-19: Gathering Storm of Looming Financial "Armageddon"
Summary: Under a scenario which could aptly be described as a Perfect Storm, "unprecedented" consequences of the "unprecedented" actions from the "Almighty" State continue to grow - on the 8th day of America's "lockdown."
|
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Dear @roleerob, were you an agricultural businessman?
No @silvergrifin007. But both of our families were involved in agriculture ...
Plus, I enjoyed the blessing of taking care of our family farm for 2 seasons with two of my sons. I wrote about this experience in the "My Life as a Hay Farmer" post I wrote in Sept 2018.
@roleerob, do you live in montena state? Montena was famous for ranches and farms. It's amazing that you worked 12 hours a day. Indeed, America is vast and prosperous. It is a land blessed by God.
@silvergrifin007, to preserve my privacy, I have never shared what state I live in, let alone what city. As far as I am prepared to go, in having details like that "immutably enshrined" in the blockchain, is what you see in my profile. I live somewhere in the Rocky Mountain region of America.
Yes. I was blessed to work with two of my sons, drawing us closer together for what we were able to achieve together. Working close to the "good earth" was a very special life-time memory for us. I thank God for the opportunity to have lived it.
Ranches and farms are found all over, not just in Montana. In my beloved mountains, there are many hidden away places where they are found.
And, yes, I do believe America was a land blessed by God. In my view, very sad to say, I personally believe He is in the process of progressively removing that blessing, as we have not honored Him for who He is. What a pathetic spectacle we are subject to here every day, in the unfolding national response to COVID-19 ...
Dear @roleerob, I respect your privacy. Perhaps you are not the governor of the United States?
You looked like the king of America. Hahaha
When I look at the photos you post, I think it's roughly Montana, Wyoming. Utah, Colorado, Idaho, and New Mexico are as dry as the desert.
I always have a fun imagination in which city @roleerob, the king of America, lives in. Perhaps he is a high-ranking person.
I always imagine where the king of America lives.
Nope @silvergrifin007, not "governor," not "king," not "high ranking,"... Just "one of the masses" here in a country of ~ 360 million people ... 😉
@roleerob, i want to call you king of america. You are similar to the face of a kind king of Korea that Koreans want.
I want to make your nickname king of America. please. hahaha
I suppose you can call me anything you may wish @silvergrifin007 ... 🙃
Just be mindful, my forefathers fought a terrible war to be free of kings. Although we are currently well on our way to creating some new ones ... 😌
You are right. Americans fought against the kings of England, Germany and the Soviet Union. However, Lincoln declared the Confederate as a traitor when the Confederacy left Union.
The king of America is merciful, but he who rebels against the Union never forgives.
So, when I studied American history, I recognized Lincoln as the first American king.
The American king wants American freedom, but he never forgives the traitor.
So, I believe that the American Civil War created the present usa.
No, @silvergrifin007, with all due respect, if your use of English words is to be encouraged, the "first American king" was undoubtedly George Washington. Who literally was asked to be king, once the Revolutionary War was won.
Can you and I imagine what must have passed through his mind? Something like (@roleerob's paraphrase, using his imagination ...)
As for all that happened in the Civil War era, books have been written about what it represented. Text comments are not sufficient to the task of even starting into it ...
아니, @ silvergrifin007, 당신의 영어 단어의 사용을 권장한다면, "미국 최초의 왕"은 의심 할 여지없이 조지 워싱턴입니다. 혁명 전쟁이 승리하자 말 그대로 누가 왕이 되라는 요청을 받았습니다.
당신과 나는 그의 마음을 통해 무엇을 통과했는지 상상할 수 있습니까? (@roleerob의 말 그대로, 상상력을 사용하여) ...
남북 전쟁 시대에 일어난 모든 일에 관해서는 그 책의 내용에 관한 책이 쓰여졌습니다. 텍스트 주석은 그것으로 시작하는 작업에는 충분하지 않습니다 ...
@roleerob, your claim that George Washington is the first American king is right.
By the way, I think Lincoln built the current United States. Because Lincoln prevented the division of the United States, the United States emerged as an empire that surpassed Europe.
In particular, Lincoln declared the liberation of black slaves, thus completing the ideas of freedom, equality and liberation in modern America. George Washington did not liberate black slaves.
So, Koreans recognized Lincoln as the greatest American king.
George Washington was the king of a coalition of 13 states independent of Europe.
However, I thought the first king of the United States was Lincoln.
This is because Lincoln is the first king of the United States to complete the territory of the United States bordering the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
Always interesting to get your perspective, my Korean friend. You have obviously spent a considerable amount of time studying American history @silvergrifin007. 👍
While we don't fully agree, e.g. without Washington there would have been no Lincoln, that is fine. America was founded on Liberty. And one of its foundational rights for its citizens - our First Amendment right - is the right of free expression ... 🙂
한국 친구 여러분, 항상 당신의 관점을 이해하는 것이 흥미 롭습니다. 당신은 분명히 미국의 역사 @ silvergrifin007을 공부하는 데 상당한 시간을 보냈습니다. 👍
완전히 동의하지는 않지만 (예 : 워싱턴이 없다면 링컨은 없었을 것입니다. 미국은 리버티에 설립되었습니다. 그리고 시민에 대한 기본 권리 중 하나 인 우리의 *** 최초 *** 수정 권리는 자유 표현의 권리입니다 ... 🙂
@roleerob, King of the Rocky Mountains!
George Washington is the first king of the United States. He was the king of white Americans. By the way, Lincoln was the king of both white and black Americans.
So, I remember Lincoln as the greatest American king.
Food shortage is the next step. We have already seen headlines saying not to expect seeing much meat on the shelves in the following weeks. It will be the same for fruits and vegetables as the migrant workers from Mexico were not allow to come work. Therefore Canadians will soon see the effects of the lock down.
The current situation was described accurately in a movie made by Peter Joseph back in 2008, Zeitgeist Addendum. What seemed like a conspiracy theory them, starts looking more real now.
Yes @lymepoet. Any time the "Almighty State" decides to step in to the marketplace is a bad idea, from my perspective. The remarkable complexity and interrelations there are well beyond the reach of any bureaucracy to effectively and efficiently manage it.
Their attempts, to "charge ahead" anyway to fulfill their promises to "save us," always result in determining the "winners" and the "losers," as I briefly allude to in this post.
There is no historical evidence of which I am aware that proves otherwise. Failing to "learn from history" we are "condemned to repeat it." It is pathetic to me to witness the ongoing political "back and forth" going on, in an effort to pretend otherwise ...
Because the problem we face is political, the solution to our problem is political. Since 'the state' is causing currency to be devalued, undertake alternative to currency to store value. Since the state is causing food supplies to be disrupted, secure food supplies through alternative means. I would not count on victory gardens, as they are impossible to undertake covertly. It is lamentable but undeniable that we are provided plentiful examples of polities undertaken to deliberately prevent masses of civilians from growing, having stores of, and acquiring food from legally allowed, publicly overt means.
If having food become a crime, become a criminal. Prepare to do this in secret, is my best advice. If such secrecy is not necessary, good. If it is, not having secret sources of food will be fatal. It is also necessary to consider what will be done to folks that aren't starving if the state intends to starve us. Secret food supply mechanisms will be routed out, people will be prevented from going to tend guerrilla gardens, and worse.
As supply chains become disrupted, we need to cut our dependence on disruptable mechanisms for existential necessities, and if we intend to thrive, for more besides. Today 3D printing, aquaponics, CRISPR, and much more decentralization of means of production cut supply chains completely. In the past it has been more efficient due to economies of scale to depend on vast global networks of industry for products.
Modern technology makes individually producing our necessary goods and services more efficient in every field of industry today, and as these nascent mechanisms develop, this will become more true as time goes by. I believe this is teh actual impetus for the present imposition of global totalitarian tyranny, because this decentralization eliminates the parasitism that has funneled our production to a tiny minority of vampires that have done whatever it takes to seize control of industry and our life's blood.
The writing is on the wall. If technology continues to improve, individually owned means of production will continue to become more efficient, easier to use, and exponentially decrease the flow of wealth and power to the vampires that have instituted parasitic pipelines to flow our production to them.
Decentralization is literally freedom. Seize those means of production you find convenient today, and do not fail to do what is necessary to ensure existentially critical supplies remain available to you and yours no matter what policies are imposed, as becomes more obvious daily can become unimaginably different from what has been considered SOP just a month ago.
Up well before 🌄 (here) @valued-customer, first let me thank you for an "epic" (the "kids" today seem to love this word ...) comment. Deserves a post of its own, for your benefit, with a link to it in here on this post perhaps!
Second, I always value input, whether I agree with it or not, as long as it is civilly and respectfully (at least for the most part) stated. Yours certainly fits that description. Therefore, in my view, it adds value to this post, for the benefit of others who may read it. Someday ...
Beyond that, I suppose I could write my own post in response, but time does not permit that. We have points on which we largely agree and those on which we don't. Good communication is always beneficial, from my long life's experience, in at least reducing "the gap" on the latter, so maybe I'll just make a couple of brief points, each of which could be greatly expanded upon:
"... the problem we face is political ..." - From my system of belief, every problem we have is ultimately spiritual, as touched on briefly in the post I published last night. And it is all "down hill" from there, beginning with politics ...
"Decentralization is literally freedom." - Depending on how you define this, I would say not likely, as your input conveys support for the commonly used word "anarchy." Which, in turn, is contrary to what I believe to be "the natural order" of our world. Based upon hierarchies of authority. Which can be "good," but far too often are "bad" ...
The "natural order" ... In ancient times, we have the biblical record of the Hebrew people and details of their opportunity to live in a "decentralized" state of existence. They rejected it and clamored for a KING! So, they could be like everyone around them ...
In more recent history, based upon a proper appreciation for "the human condition," in their associated wisdom and integrity, our American Founding Fathers produced the greatest form of government seen. Described by the incomparable Benjamin Franklin, in response to a question about what had just been created by "consensus agreement" - "A Republic, if you can keep it ..." The greatest modern form of "decentralization" ... Which "we the people," much as people from ancient times, have demonstrated we will not do what is necessary "to keep it." We have progressively decimated all of the "checks and balances" established in 1787, to keep us free of the inevitable, tyrannical nature of centralized authority. As in ancient times, we clamor for the "Almighty State" to be our source of safety and security ...
In both instances, "we the people" suffer the consequences of their decisions. We are still, in my judgment, in only the very early stages of finding out what that is going to be ...
P.S. Interesting to me "in here" that what is left of the blessings the American people have historically experienced draws such admiration from our Korean friend, @silvergrifin007 ...
It is reading your kind responses to @silvergrifing007 that gained my regard for your writing and knowledge.
As to anarchy, hierarchy has always been necessary to our species because war disrupted security. Modern security technology that is able to be manufactured by individuals - and technology far in excess of what is presently available will be soon - eliminates this necessity.
Given that for most members of a hierarchy, it is a 'necessary evil', I reckon most folks will extract themselves as able.
You rule yourself every day. Everybody does. Autarchy is a fact of life. While I am familiar with the Bible, I am not willing to discard my God-given reason to worship what is in all likelihood a man deified in the Roman manner prior to his followers being used to conquer the world.
That is not a use to which I intend to be put.
Jesus was a great guy, and taught men like us how to live. That is the victory over the globalist tyranny I foresee, like a prophet of ancient days. Good folks making what they need and helping each other, and the hierarchical structures that profit parasites be damned.
Thanks for the courtesy of your reply, and know that mine is intended to encourage, not radicalize.
Be well.
Well @valued-customer ...
... it is kind of you, in turn, to ascribe some kindness to my efforts, as I am not accustomed to "hearing" that. While far from perfect, I do make a conscious effort, so thank you.
I appreciate you investing some time into a response. Whether I agree with what you have to say, I know you write "from the heart" and are very earnest in what appear to be your strongly held beliefs.
This characterization of yourself underscores what I just wrote, from my perspective.
Beyond that, before deciding what (if any) more to say, I want to be crystal clear about what you intended to convey with these words:
They are confusing to me. Would you mind expanding on this sentence?
Insofar as we are what we are, in order to cement our mutual understanding of that fact, I refer to what we are as God given. We have not created ourselves, but are provided to our selves to do with as we will.
My capacity to comprehend the significance of evidence based on my experience is not some denigration of God, nor denial of faith, in any way. It is as God given as my fingers or any other aspect of my existence. Therefore I am obligated to the Creator of that gift to me to use that capability forthrightly to interpret evidence. That is the purpose of reason and understanding we are availed.
In Rome at the turn of the common era, it was the common practice of that culture to deify great men upon their demise. This was done to Jesus, as Christianity was imposed on Rome and twisted into a weapon of imperial conquest that produced the Holy Roman Empire and that antithesis of Jesus' simple teaching of communal love and treating others no less kindly than oneself.
From the 12th Century and the genocide of the Albigensians, the weaponization of Christianity developed by the Catholic Church became refined into one of the most egregious cultures of torture and elimination of human rights in history, producing the Inquisition. We can observe parallels to our American government today, as the rhetoric of revolution and individual freedoms is twisted into support for a police state surveillance imperial institution that features indefinite arbitrary detention, torture, and assassination even of an American child named Awlaki without any accusation whatsoever of wrongdoing by US President Obama.
This is the source and etymology of Christianity today. It is not derived from the teachings of the Albigensians, because they were eliminated by genocide. The Reformation was a rejection of this weaponization, but was a response to that utterly Antichristian institutionalization that produced merely reformed institutionalization of Christianity, and was not a restoration of the original teaching of Jesus, which was simply to act personally to love the others in your community.
It is this demonstration of a good person, Jesus, of his loving and kind actions in life to bless his neighbors and community that is significant to we today, as those were acts mere men such as we ourselves can undertake, not the acts of an omnipotent and omniscient God whose pretense at suffering on a cross being tortured to death has zero relevance and meaning to mortal men. It is this desecration of Christianity and it's replacement with polytheism that has driven world conquering Empire that I cannot accede to against that gift of reason I am bound to honor by fully using it to understand these facts.
I find your inquiry regarding this point revelatory of your own cognizance of that blessing of intellectual functionality we are delivered of God, and the import of this particular point. I will but offer to recommend you undertake to debunk the individual reasons underlying this understanding of Christianity should you find insuperable it's ultimate conclusion, to best enable you to bless me with insightful criticism should you find it necessary to your own faith to refute my understanding.
Thank you for investing your time into providing a response to my question @valued-customer. We can certainly agree on this:
From my belief of what follows, this statement extends beyond "we" to the world around us. As recorded for us in the first couple of chapters of the Bible and its description of the Garden of Eden. While making no claim to knowing much about them, this simple fact seems to have been opposed by the Albigensians. A people which you have referenced in your response ...
In "googling" more about these people, I found this statement in the Wikipedia post:
I don't know if you agree with this statement, but your response indicates to me that you do. Tied to the Catholic church, the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc. While historically an issue, no doubt, for anyone seeking to understand the Truth, I am not sure how you make the leap from referencing what happened to these people to "tying that around the neck" of all of Christianity today ...
For whatever it may be worth:
I raise these quick points to simply to say that I, like many, many others, have had my own experiences with legalistic, self righteous, hypocritical people. And very familiar with the "stumbling block" they represent to anyone seeking to know the Truth. That is certainly an important aspect of my own life's "story" ...
Perhaps it is so with you as well? Perhaps not ...
If our "conversation" holds any interest for you continuing, I would like to return the focus of it back to Jesus Christ. Who He was and what His "story" represents ...
In agreement with your own characterization of Him, it is quite common that He is referred to as a "good person." In whatever way that basic idea is conveyed. In His time here on earth, here is what He said of Himself:
Whatever these words mean to you, my next basic question, then, if you have ever heard of it in any form or fashion, is what the word "Gospel" means to you.
Of course, my desire is this be a "two-way street" conversation, so if you have any questions for me, please feel free to ask away ...
P.S. Please take the above as my response to you saying - "... to recommend you undertake to debunk the individual reasons underlying this understanding of Christianity ..." Upon reading it, if you think I have misunderstood / ignored / ?...? what you have written, please feel free to restate it. While I don't perceive this to be an issue, please set aside any concern of "offending" me, with whatever you feel led to say ...
I am happy to receive your reply. I am also quite glad you expect not to be offended by my opinions. As you might expect, not all folks this topic comes up with are so measured in their responses. I endeavor not to offend, as some seem to think that I seek to abuse them if I do not share their faith. Conversion by the sword seems too easily adopted by some.
I note Jesus spoke in Aramaic. Translation through several languages, which has necessarily been undertaken to create English Bibles, tends to subtly at best shade meanings. It is certain that the imperial church, through which your theology has been delivered, since it did not simply spring forth out of nothing, but must have been derived from prior theology, has undertaken to spin Christianity into a weapon of world conquest.
I believe the statement above is an example of how that was done. I note Jesus did not ever directly and forthrightly state he was God. Why? Because he was just a man, and this is why his acts have significance to mere men. If God can be perfect what is that to us? We are not God. We are men, and if a man can live as Jesus did, we can know we can also. This has meaning to us, as an example mortal men can follow.
When called good, Jesus said 'Why do you call me good? Only God is good.' He clearly differentiated between himself and God. Every sect of Christianity today has derived from the Catholic Church, including the Mormon faith. The temporal powermongers that used theology to turn churchgoers into armies that conquered the known world without doubt twisted Jesus' words to do so.
His acts demonstrate humility, compassion, and love for his community, not authority, lordship, or power over them. This is the example we should follow to be Christians IMHO. The Romans deified Jesus to create worship, which abnegates reason.
Jesus never sought worship.
He sought followers of his example.
More than this gospel I reckon confounding and destructive of what Jesus sought to do. Empowering Popes and Pastors to wield authority over their communities was not what he did in life, nor does that support his example of loving service to the community he lived in.
Institutions are Antichrist. They are undead, undying, inhuman and inhumane. People are who Jesus reached out to, and who matter. Whatsoever of our power and authority we deliver to institutions, we take from God and counter His purpose with. If we use our power and authority to help people, we undertake to do as Jesus did, and follow the way of God, who gives to us our existence and all the blessings in it without expectation or demand of return on His investment.
There is no god but God. Men, even good and incorruptible men, are not God. When all men do as Jesus did, they save one another from the harms that plague us, and themselves.
This is what Jesus meant when he said 'I am the way....', and the manipulators of mankind who weaponized his statements to wage war of conquest by crafting armies using them deliberately twisted what he said to cause them to abandon reason and lovingkindness until they could burn innocent people alive in the name of Christ.
To call Jesus God is desecration, polytheism, and turns his love of humanity into a weapon of brutal war. This is what I observe from history. This is what my reason supports from the dichotomy between how Jesus lived and what institutions twist that to achieve.
This is also why I am hesitant to discuss this with Christians, who seem sometimes to cast away the beneficence their faith in God blesses them with if the unquestioning belief in the deity of Jesus is challenged.
Very good @valued-customer ...
... then we are, at least on this point, "on the same page." And, on that basis, although you do not explicitly say so, I will assume the reverse to be true, i.e. that you have not and will not take offense to my replies.
While I can ask further questions to, in as positive and constructive a manner as I can manage, provide you with "food for thought," I would largely do so, as I have done above, based upon what I believe God's word clearly states vs. providing just my opinion.
Therefore, this statement creates a challenge for me, going forward ...
... since I have dealt with this before, primarily (which you may or may not have some experience with yourself) in my past conversations with the Mormons. At any point in talking with them, where there might be the challenge of dealing with the meaning of any portion of what God has to say to us, they simply dismiss it as "incorrectly translated" ...
Ohhh ...
Well, that quickly leads into a "bottomless pit" of trying to determine what then God actually did ever say about anything, what "proof" anyone would base their assertion of that claim on, and why that is correct, etc., etc ...
So ... When you say ...
... you have, in a manner of speaking (which is just fine with me ...), passed "judgment" on what I hold to be true, which is the word of God. How would you describe the source of whatever has led you to the conclusions you have shared with me? And upon what does your confidence rest that (whatever the answer may be) instead is True?
I have read a reverse translation from English to Greek, to Aramaic, which I don't particularly have great confidence in as producing an accurate reconstruction of Jesus' words, but that reveals just how significantly such translations affect meanings.
Further, my reason is my rock in my opinions. It may not be sufficient, but it is what I am availed, and as I undertake to abandon false understanding when apprised of it, do the best I reckon I can with it.
No one I know that gives much thought to Christianity maintains that Jesus was not a man. Christians practically universally also ascribe to him Godhood. I know a lot of men, none of whom are gods, and expect this is as universal as any physical law - by which I mean the rules that God established to order the functioning of the universe, as in physics.
Men are not gods, and it was in the roman transition to a Christian empire that Jesus was deified. There is little reasonable basis to understand Jesus as God and obvious and substantial evidence that he was deified for political purposes.
I should say there is no reasonable basis to understand Jesus or any man is the Creator of the universe. When considered just on reason, the idea is preposterous and absurd beyond doubt. That he was a holy man seems more than apparent, from the extensive interest in his acts, and the nature of reports of those acts. But holy men are not omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent beings.
The political application of his deification to create hordes of warriors willing to do every vile cruelty to those their prelates sent them after well explains the subtle twisting of his words.
Finally, it is the utter irrelevance of his torture and death if he was that immortal God that convinces me he was only a man, and that his deification is not only contrary, but contradictory to Jesus' message and example. Instead of inspiring humanity to emulate his example, it couches that transcendent love that encompassed his torturers even as they killed him as something only God can do.
Jesus did this as a man, and this means to men they can elevate their own selves to love transcendentally, which is what Jesus stated would save the world and allow the meek to inherit it.
God is no liar or trickster, to fool us into believing He suffered and died. It is a lie, and the utter refutation of a forthright loving God to claim God could die on a cross. Men can do what Jesus did. I have seen men die in agony, yet die well, and die for the love of their people.
Perhaps you have seen the photograph of the Buddhist monk who set himself afire to protest the Vietnam War.
I will not be offended by anything you ask or say regarding theology or religion. You seem to take exception to the sole possibility of where Christian theology derives. Is there some other route than through the Catholic Church through which it has been passed down?
Very well @valued-customer, you have clearly spent a lot of time investing in and reflecting upon what you believe to be true. I both appreciate and respect that, as that indicates a rare "depth" to you. That is a lot more than I can say about most of the people with whom I might have a similar conversation. At least in this day and age ...
Having no idea how often you might have been "tested" in the soundness of "my reason is my rock in my opinions", to be concise I'll just make some brief (as I can manage ...) points, each of which could be a post / book / ?...? on their own, if one was so inclined. And, as with you, they come from "my own story:"
Intelligence is not the same as wisdom. I would suggest to you reason and logic are more closely tied to the former. While God tells us properly understanding Him begins with the latter. In either case, however, we are told His is infinitely greater than ours.
The first point leads to our inability to simply rationally, logically, "reason out" the Truth. It is revealed to us by God. The pride of man is his eternal undoing, as he does not want to accept this, as very clearly stated here. God's Word is not a text book. We cannot simply pick up, read it, and pass some sort of the "comprehension" tests we became accustomed to in school, as children.
What does God reveal to us? He starts with Creation itself, as referred to here and proclaims we are without excuse, as a result. You clearly believe that there is a God, so you do well in coming to that realization. As we both know, there are many who do not.
As children, I believe our natural state is to be inquisitive and creative, much as our Creator. It is easy for a child to experience the world around them and believe that there is a God who created it. What happens as we age? The word used in the scriptural answer is we become "hardened" ... To what?
Distilling the essence of the answer down to the two most basic questions I know, we find the answer:
Over my long life, I have come to believe, in whatever "twists and turns" one takes to try and avoid facing it, the "hardening" of man's heart comes in his wrestling with his Creator's answers to these two questions. If he can manage his way past the answer to the first one - "bad!" - then he simply will not accept there is nothing he can do on his own to get to a better place.
Back to reason, rational thought, and logic, I have long held that what one thinks is based almost exclusively upon what one believes. This, in turn, has a direct effect on what we "see" ...
Only God is going to help you "see" the Truth of, for example, what the Cross represents. Against the understanding of which we all are challenged with these sobering thoughts:
" For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18
"And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake." 2 Corinthians 4:3-5
I'll close saying I will come back to Jesus, again, should you have an interest to continue. As I hope you will. I will do what I can to help you thoughtfully reconsider your statements about who He was.
If it helps any at all, you are not "arguing" with me. We seem to both at least be able to agree that there is a God. And presumably agree that He is greater than us. As the words above indicate, unfortunately there is another who is also greater than us. And against we are hopelessly and helplessly "over-matched" ...
Long ago, a man served as a "tool in God's hand" to help me understand these things. And eternally changed my "trajectory through life," as a result. During that time, I found great power in these words, that I believe are applicable to you now, as you reflect upon what I have written:
If He gives me the blessing of serving in any sort of similar way in this "conversation" with you, I will happily share whatever insights He gives me.
I find it too convenient to be let off the hook for my responsibility to be righteous by this argument.
I have appreciated too much, I think, our conversation here, as I dare not undertake it with most folks.
Be well.
Yes @valued-customer, in one way or another, this ...
... is where most want to "get off," as it is a stumbling block. Arguably the stumbling block ... It is a credit to you that at least you have a desire for righteousness.
Those similarly inclined most commonly use each other, as their reference for "how am I doing?" By what measure do you determine "how am I doing?" in your pursuit of righteousness?
You do not need to answer. I will pray that He helps you "see" that our standard of righteousness and His are very different. As He is the perfect and eternal embodiment of righteousness, He declares there is "none righteous". And, if it helps, we most certainly are not "let off the hook," but called upon to be Holy ...
Thank you for your time. I only am a part-time "engager" in here, but if you ever want to "talk" about anything in the future, give me a little time and I will look forward to it.
As far as I can tell, in this "virtual world," you seem quite sincere and honest. I appreciate that.
All the best to you and yours in getting through whatever is coming ...
P.S. "... whatever is coming ..." in my view has been ordained by God.
Up early 🌄 (here) @valued-customer, prompted to read through our exchange here, I first want to thank you for investing your time in it. As I have prayed about it, I feel led to emphasize my response to what I perceive to be central to yours - your pursuit of righteousness.
So, based on the liberty of this being my post, your encouragement that you will not take offense, and my wanting to ensure any other "eyes" on this exchange see this final emphasis, I will continue ...
The challenge before all of man is against whose standard of righteousness will we be judged? The unmistakably clear answer from God's Word (which far from letting you "off the hook" will place you on it):
"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:5 [emphasis added mine]
"... who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."
1 Timothy 6:16 [emphasis added mine]
"For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."
Isaiah 64:6 [emphasis added mine]
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin."
Romans 3:20 [emphasis added mine]
In a word, He is perfect. And we most assuredly are not. Not even close ... And there is no "yeah, well, okay, I'm not perfect, but I am pretty good, especially compared to that guy over there!" option available.
God has provided His answer to the problem. The ultimate answer. The historical figure you and I have both referenced by His given name - Jesus Christ. Both fully man and fully God, He paid the ultimate price for our salvation. As God, knowing that men would reject this Truth, as men always want their "works righteousness" to "pass the test." Their pride is their fatal undoing ...
He refers to this as a "stumbling block:"
"Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, ..."
Romans 9:32 [emphasis added mine]
"For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
1 Corinthians 1:22-24 [emphasis added mine]
"But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished."
Galatians 5:11 [emphasis added mine]
Note: "Circumcision" referenced here was the universally accepted word for "calling out" the Hebrews understanding of what I have called "works righteousness" ...
So ... I appeal to you to reconsider your position. You stated above you have taken the extraordinary measure of going back to the original Aramaic to try and understand what God has to say to you. My appeal is that you do this again. With whichever of these scriptural references above you feel led to do so. I am fully confident that He will lead you (any of us) to the Truth, based on His promise to you (any of us), if you (any of us) earnestly seek it ...
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
Hebrews 11:6 [emphasis added mine]
"Seek the Lord while He may be found;
Call upon Him while He is near."
Isaiah 55:6 [emphasis added mine]
"for He says, “At the acceptable time I listened to you,
And on the day of salvation I helped you.”
Behold, now is “the acceptable time,” behold, now is “the day of salvation”
2 Corinthians 6:2 [emphasis added mine]
In closing, I want to take pains to say I am no different than you. And certainly no better. I have now completed doing what I hope you would do for me, if our roles were reversed. Sharing the liberating Truth shared with me long ago ...
For whatever our future holds, I wish you well, my friend, in your pursuit of righteousness.
As should be apparent from my discussion of reason, what standard I have of righteousness is God given. I know it is not some perfect understanding, as none such should be expected of an ambulatory bag of obscene glop. So, I am left with certainty that my standard must evolve as incessant failures instruct me what to avoid.
Granted the knowledge of my imperfection that precludes expectation of impeccability, and Jesus' own admonition to forgive as we would be forgiven and to thereafter 'go and sin no more', I am certain that my proper course is to learn from my mistakes and undertake as best I am able to not repeat them, and to do so unimpressed by anxiety. I have long sought regret and shame, along with criticism, as those are marvelous impetus to avoid repeating damnable mistakes.
As to faith in God, I find it immaterial to my journey, though some may enjoy it. Since I cannot know the perfect way, I do not bother to think I do, not even to claim to be granted it from the maunderings of holy men long dusty bones in mausoleums. I expect the human condition: bractice makes berfect.
So far, I am not disappointed in my expectations.
Let God know God. I am only called to learn of me, and that is more than I expect to perfect before I join the dead in providing the basis for my posterity to live on.
It is vast overreach to grasp at empire, and I will be content, in the end, with the grave.
I find the proclamations of prelates comparable to the claims of sorcerers, in the boastful ambit of their intent. In 'A Yaqui Way of Knowledge'(or one of the books in that series) Carlos Castaneda wrote that the sorcerer Don Juan told him 'a Man of Knowledge chooses his folly.'
In other words, that knowing we are imperfect requires us to accept imperfection, but the sorcerer claimed to be able to select what shortcomings he would feature. The masters of Persian rug-making also have fallen into this conceit, by deliberately incorporating one tiny flaw into their products, the 'Persian Flaw', so as to avoid perfection in that work and thereby offending Allah, which for some reason they believe to intend the universe to never feature His own nature.
I find these beliefs comparable to the magic of God's grace to erase our sins. Rather than offend my reason by believing in my ability to only sin as I choose, or that such error as I undertake magically being eliminated from history by grace, I simply trudge on from error to error, and seek to only make new mistakes as I go.
It seems to me the best I can expect of me. More than this I do not aspire to, nor expect of God. In the world to come, which I foresee not from spiritual enlightenment, which I do not claim, but from simply projecting forwards from the technological development ongoing and the nature of humanity, I shall be happy to be availed of that perfection in body and spirit that I am confident remains availed only through the perfection of purpose Jesus showed came from the knowledge that all life is one immortal creature.
From the least microbe beneath the sea, to our neighbors and their vapid interests, every living thing today is the endpoint of a chain of living cells reaching uninterrupted back to that primordial living thing, whose life we continue. We are all one, and it is only reasonable then to love each other as our selves.
We are all one life. When mankind goes forth into the heaven, as holy men have long prophesied, and today we develop the means to do, we will allow our terrestrial life to claim that barren starfield through our agency. Someday, when the tech has nominally developed and the time is right, we will rejoin that society, resurrected by means we might only understand today as magic, but potential in the laws of physics the author of the universe laid down as the foundation of creation.
Then, perhaps, such conceits as prelates, sorcerers, and craftsmen proclaim might apply.