RE: The horrible morals of humanity
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I will start with my apology. The thing with Soya, you're absolutely right. Grown mainly for animal feed, human use is the by product. Perhaps you don't know why this came about but the rise in use in Soya came about after the BSE crisis. Governments decided that animals needed a VEGAN diet to stop them transmitting Mad Cow disease! I'm pissed because I lost the link to the report that discussed this but I am sure I'll find it again and send you the link.
This post is passionate, and whether I totally agree or not, my admiration to people with such staunch principles is unending.
The answer to the first comment on this post is that humans have consciousness and higher intellect than the rest of the living world which allows us to understand the difference between right and wrong and act accordingly. This would negate the 'animals kill other animals' argument.
BUT
This would also negate your argument that all creatures feel and have emotions in the same way as humans as you intimate in your post. I'm not convinced by that.
Personally, I don't eat a lot of meat and never eat fish or seafood, as I am torn with the abuses in the food industry, but I also don't really like the taste or texture. Dairy...I love milk, cheese and eggs and don't really feel guilt although I do know how things work, I was brought up on a farm. I will still maintain though, that away from the developed world, the majority of the world's population could not afford to eat a plant only diet. I feel there are as many profiteers and scoundrels in the plant-based food industry as there in the meat industry and I hate the food snobs who pay stupid money for organic and 'quality' plant-based products simply to be trendy. I also don't believe we have enough arable land to grow food for everyone, but this could be mitigated by using oceans to cultivate water-based plants, like seaweed.
When it comes to religion, I will despair of agnostics, but such is my hypocrisy, when it comes to vegetarianism and veganism, sorry, I am a terrible agnostic!
Thanks for giving us more (vegan) food for thought and I apologise to you once again.
Best wishes to you and hubby, enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thank you for your elaborate answer and big compliments for diving into the soya usage after my last post. We both just go by what we've learned so far and I'm definitely impressed by you getting to the bottom of that one. There's not many people on 'the internetz' who do this nowadays.
I don't have scientific data in my head (and forget mosts facts as soon as they pass through me), but on this subject, I go by what I see and what is logical. Animals are not the same as humans, just like dogs are not the same as cats, cows are not the same as chickens, fish are not the same as pigs, etc.. I know a few facts I've read about pigs being smarter than dogs, dolphins being very smart, cows can have best friends, etc. but ultimately, in one capacity or another, I do believe all animals have feelings. Just look at a couple of videos where animals try to escape their captors in slaughterhouses, try to jump out of moving trucks, cows trying to save their babies from being taken, etc.. How far their understanding goes and how much of it is instinct, doesn't actually matter to me, because they do behave this way for a reason and they do feel physical pain.
The industry does do their very best to keep away prying eyes, so we can all live in ignorance, paying them for murder. Apparently, in some places, it's illegal to share footage of slaughterhouses. So basically, they get away with murder and when they're taped, the one making the video is in trouble, not the ones commiting mass murder. No, they even get paid for it. And somehow, that's 'normal'. Isn't that crazy when you stop to think about it? Humans feel bad when someone tortures a dog, or even just kills one for food. In the developed world, there'd be an uprising. People shouting for the dog torturer's head. One dog. If that is unacceptable to humans, it should be unacceptable no matter what animal it is, especially billions of them.
I will agree with you here. Although away from the developed world, the animals will be treated very differently aswell (both bad and good). A family having to feed themselves off of their own land might have a cow or a couple of goats and chickens and will care well for them, because they depend on them. Once it's time for slaughter, I don't suspect they shove them into a truck filled up to capacity with animals, travelling for hours/days in the blazing sun, after being herded out, terrified, being led to their slaughter. I'd think they kill their own animals right on the spot. It's still a sad thing, but takes away a lot of suffering and it's a survival thing for them. The developed world has 'perfected' the production and with it, has introduced a lot more suffering and terror. The developed world also doesn't need it and should act better if they pretend to be 'good people'.
I wonder if we would have enough land to feed the entire world on a plant-based diet. There must have been studies done there. The need to grow crops for animal feed will fall away, freeing up a lot of land. Even if that weren't suitable for human food, we could regrow a shitload of trees/grass/nature there and maybe clear out a couple of areas better suited for human food. We need a lot more water and plants to get a piece of meat on our plate than we would for a plant-based meal. Sorry I don't have data to back me up right now, but logic dictates this and there is data out there, I'm pretty sure.
Hah, I had to google that! Agnostics... well I will say there is much more to learn and we don't know everything. I guess I just believe in whatever is properly backed by science and/or what seems logical to me. What I see with my own eyes (although illusions tell us not to trust them blindly).
Thanks for taking the time out to write this reply (and read the post!). I'll happily agree to disagree with you on a few things and am glad to have a civil conversation! Much better than the crap I get on Instagram, where, funnily enough, I usually clash with vegans who judge in black and whites only, not considering the world we live in today.
Best wishes to you aswell and I hope you had a good weekend!