Community Brainstorm

in Hive Improvement2 months ago

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Whilst there is some desire to go back to the old 'tag' system on HIVE, communities seem here to stay, and they do have their benefits. They're designed to gather people around a common interest, but also function to gather people together to support and help each other grow. They can give a sense of identity and solidarity, just like community groups do in real life. That's not to say that you should exclusively post in your community bubble - I love to join in on a few communities such as Have You Been Here, Stock Images or Ladies of Hive - and like it or not, people will try to flock to the community with the biggest upvotes (something @acidyo has tried to address with his community incubation project, to great success) - but for the most part, communities are kinda fun.

I like things to be kinda neat and organised, so they appeal to me on an aesthetic level too. I still search for things via 'old' tags when I'm curating eg #yoga #health #meditation and I still use those tags myself, mainly as new users still have to wrap their heads around the systems here and I don't want to miss them, and I don't expect everyone to post in a community, and nor should they feel obligated to. So a few of the 'problems' we may have with communities aren't actually huge problems at all - just things to navigate like you do with any system.

But anyway, I digress - here's the 3 ideas I thought I'd talk about in response to @guiltyparties call to brainstorm about communities.

Discussion Forums

I liked @steevc's idea that communities should be like Reddit, where people come together to talk over a particular topic. This can be what happens in Discord, but what's the point of that as it pulls away from the HIVE platform?

Say you want to ask about herbs to support immune function - but you don't want to write a whole post about it. don't like the idea of my blog feed being cluttered with single line questions or short posts that could be seen as 'shit posts' - I'd feel bad for those who autovote my usual work, which I try to make as quality as I can for sake of 'outside HIVE' impressions.

But in a community forum, you could separate 'blog posts' from 'discussion points', for example. You can still upvote discussion points if you like, but you needn't even see them unless you were looking for them in the community.

They wouldn't even be eligible for autovotes at all, so I could post a question anytime and not feel I have to make my post 'worthy' of upvotes. There was a dapp for this under the old Steem but it was separate from the main front ends - damn if I can't remember what it was called!

These 'discussion' posts should be viewable from the community page. For example:

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I could drop my question here (and in an ideal world, there would be a clever archiving system to search for previous threads) and perhaps there would be a notification to alert members a new question had been posed.

CO-SIGNATORIES FOR COMMUNITY FUNDS

I find HIVE folk for the most part trustworthy, and there has to be a degree of trust when you're dealing with community funds. I trust the community organisers have got the members best interests at heart, but I understand that one of the biggest fears is that community funds either are locked up and not used when the keys are lost or someone disappears, or that someone with the master keys powers down and hightails it with their fortune (oh please, HIVE, go to $10 so I can think about this option haha).

But I understand that not everyone feels that level of trust and it keeps them up at night. This could be solved with co-signatories like you might do for a dual bank account. I might power down, change the keys, delegate or other 'big' moves, but the action would only happen if say, three other community members who also had the keys approved that action.

Like with my internet banking, I'd receive an alert that the power down had begun, and I could then either block or approve the action with my own keys.

SOME 'EASE OF RUNNING' COMMUNITY FEATURES WHICH COULD BE COOL

Yeah, this is a way of getting more than my '3' ideas in but I can't choose, so here's a few. I'm saying 'could' - happy to be argued down on any of them but it's just a brainstorm on my part (because I just drank too much coffee before I wrote this post!)

  • More customisable - eg images, ads
  • If you are given the 'curator' role, you are automatically given a nominated beneficiary on any post you write from community account, minimum set by HIVE and max by admin.
  • Those who subscribe are automatically given a 'member' role rather than the admin having to do it manually on Peakd
  • Application for communities should be made, to avoid crossovers with interest groups, and approved by HIVE team. If applications are successful communities should automatically recieve a certain amount of delegation to help them grow their account to support their members. Communities could be reviewed yearly to make sure they are meeting particular commitments eg paying their curators, advertising HIVE via outside media such as Twitter, working on user engagement.
  • Search feature for communities should be easy - how would you know to search for 'natural medicine' if you were interested in 'meditation', which we support? If I search for 'meditation', it should throw up the communities that support this key theme. I know this one often gets raised.
  • No Discord - chatting within community only. This DOES NOT NEED TO BE REWARDED - not everything should be! - but damn our own DisHivecord would be amazing.
  • If you mute a user in the community they shouldn't be able to post in the community at all until unmuted

I've read quite a few of these and lots of people have great ideas, so I encourage you to join in.

All you need to do to participate is:

  • Write a post listing your top 3 improvement ideas for communities
  • Tag 3 friends in your post who you want to challenge + copy these rules into your post
  • Go to the original challenge post by @guiltyparties and link your post in the comments

Tagging @pavanjr, @justinparke and @drrune for your input!

With Love,

Are you on HIVE yet? Earn for writing! Referral link for FREE account here

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I think the idea of the discussion forum is great! You also propose other interesting contributions such as the administration of resources.

Regarding the search engine and the tags I think it would be good if each community had some "keywords" that would help the community to be monitored or found easily.

Blessings ✨

I totally agree with the keywords and search function - i think a lot of people want the same thing, so I guess we can hope for that one day! thanks for dropping by!

!ENGAGE 25

Hivesearcher.com is world class for searching all keyword driven hive content. It's my go to. Nothing to hope for... it's here. Keywords for searching are something we've one mutiple times since day dot no? Just need to pin them to the "About" part of the community and all sorted. If they had some relativity to popular keywords in the big wide world it would be super smart.

No, you misunderstand. This was about searching for communities. HIVESEARCHER is good though, agreed. Hivesearcher is indeed a go to.

Hivesearcher serves up community content for discoverability too.

I love Hivesearcher, but sadly, it seems to be having some issues. The newest posts it's showing me are from 14 days ago even though the tags I'm searching for are being used in new posts.

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I still count myself pretty much a Hive newbie, and communities/tags were probably th biggest thing to get my head round.

I think mainly because communities just felt like tags on steroids - they felt like a method of grouping posts, rather than a collection of people with a similar interest - if that makes sense.

But as I used Hive and got more used to its structure they felt like something cool, but waiting for something to make them pop and fizz.

I love the idea of a place for general discussion like disHivecord - I think a forum based system may work best but there's a bit of me thinks that's not a million miles away from what a normal post allows.

But an Article/Discussion/chat structure within a community feels like a good place to start discussion.

You're post has made me think about communities a little more than I was - I'll go away and do some any maybe pop my own 3 suggestions up later... 😀

Awesome, yes please write, and come back and tell me when you did so I don't miss it.

I guess as I was here already as the communities formed, it made sense for me and I didn't have to think about it too much, but I can't even imagine what it must be like for newbies!

The great thing about HIVE is that newbie or not, you can still speak up and get yourself heard with great ideas, and thus have a hand in building it really.

I do think the communities need work - let's hope they get there!

!ENGAGE 50

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I love the idea of the discussion forum. I think this is very much needed. Also, if we are a decentralized network, we should not continue to feed other centralized networks like Discord. I also like the order, the labels need to be collected in lists within the communities. Anyway I'm going to make a post exposing my ideas, you just provoked me hahaha... Let's see if I have time.

But I think you've already written most of the ideas... I thought of them first!!

Haha! Well a comment is enough, but I encourage you to get your thoughts out there... xx Tanks for replying. Totally agree about Discord! But until a better community organisation tool works here - including private and group messages - what choice do we have?

It's one thing to say EVERY conversation should earn HIVE but sometimes private conversations are really valuable and needed, so unless there's a built in messaging app what can we do?

!ENGAGE 25

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I really like this post, not sure I will have time to participate but there certainly is a lot to consider. I think brainstorms really help you think out loud and put pen to paper.

The element which gave me the most food for thought is where you mention shitposting. First of all I don't like that word, it's not really reappropriating the word shit in a way that hasn't been done before. And, yes, you are right, it would be nice to have a forum system that is no more rewarded than say, comments on a post so your autovote suite could be more effecient at promoting content. It's no secret that rewards give you exposure and so it makes sense to have billboard and places where the monetization is much smaller and less likely to even happen.

  1. The ability to post to a single community of your choice from your blog without it being any different than posting directly to the community so that it can be on your blog directly as opposed to you having to reblog it to yourself.
  2. Removal of the ability to vote on your own posts for users with 500+ HP OR a reputation of 60+
  3. The ability to rate your post in 3 categories
    A) Full blog (full reward)
    B) Actifit, Appics etc. (partial reward)
    C) Forum and interactive community (minimal reward)

Of course in all 3 categories it would be nice to have some high payoffs but, in category C), it should be based solely on proof of brain, no autovotes.

Everyone has a different idea of how to add value to this platform. Being from the art world, I know that there is no meritocracy in fine arts and sometimes, the lazier artist is more succesful at what they do than hard working one. However, we should foster a culture of Proof of Brain as opposed to how we are actually thinking of Hive as a ROI. It works for the LEO community, bless their hearts but for those of us trying to focus on culture and entertainment, it can backfire to think of things that way. This is because the content needs all the help it can get to come off as elevated and therefore outsiders should see high payoffs on content they feel can be considered good. Sometimes it's not your cup of tea but you can see how someone may dig this particular makeup tutorial for example.

You can always argue that autovoting made Hive into what it is today and that is fair but I also feel like we can create value by holding the potential of this technology in high regard and perhaps find more ways to organically burn Hive with
different actions, keeping a close eye on the liquidity of course; crypto is still volatile.

To Hive's merit, it is already doing this fairly well and much better than in it's previous life under the old blockchain. The content feels much more elevated. I know a few users who I have been watching for years and who shitpost on a daily basis, in my opinion, it hasn't taken them all that far in terms of visibility but they make a hell of a use case for Hive. We all do in our own ways, spending some spare time on here.

Lastly, as far as the UI, I would love to search my own blog by month and year or know how to back the pictures up within their wordpress format.

Thank you @riverflows for you really cool post, I am always so admirative of how consistant you are in your style and participate so actively in the different trends.

I just realized that B) relates in no way shape or form with communities XD
No wrong ideas with a brainstorm XD

I love all your ideas - full upvote from me, though it's not worth much!

!ENGAGE 25

I love all your points and I agree that we are BETTER. Intelligent, thoughtful and relevant response!

Because we are just super cool ;)
You just gave me a much needed morale boost in this season of dwindling daylight!

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communities seem here to stay, and they do have their benefits. They're designed to gather people around a common interest, but also function to gather people together to support and help each other grow

And it's exactly the same thing with tags...

I still search for things via 'old' tags when I'm curating

Which means the tags are superior for using

More customisable - eg images, ads

How do you want to convince front ends to display communities ads instead of their own, especially when these frontends do have maintenance costs and may be depended on revenue from their ads

If you mute a user in the community they shouldn't be able to post in the community at all until unmuted

Welcome to reddit, the cancer of interwebs but on blockchain temporarily called hive. People get away from reddit for this kind behaviour only. It's against hive censorship proof idea

These are just free thoughts for community to consider

!ENGAGE 25

You should write a post about it! When I meant ads, I meant ads appropriate to that community. For example, ads about wellness for natural Medicine. I'm not entirely sure what you mean?

I don't believe in not censoring completely. If you're an asshole, a plagiarist, or generally being unkind, why SHOULD you have rights to post in a community and make people feel unsafe, rip people off or whatever? Same as in any real life community - be a twat and you're not going to be welcome, surely?

Nah, it's not enough for a post and it's too intertwined with your post.

About the ads, I'm sorry I didn't get your initial message. I think the ads that display at frontends that use ad services (rent out ad space) that are somehow profiled by (at least) site's content. I believe you can see unrelevant adds because there's still not too many of them - we get only few types of advertisers, up for now.
I don't want any of the frontends to start using google ad services or any other that tracks and profiles users data/metadata. If the hive grows, we'll get more diversity in ads topics thus better ad relevance.

About the censorship part.
The hive was about the freedom of speech, freedom of being an asshole. It is very important for us, for me. At least it's what got me here. The world is filled with assholes and people who want to cut the corners. The hive/steem didn't overlooked that. It assessed the issue and provided the solution that did not revoke its stance about the freedom of speech and censorship disgust:

  • downvoting,
  • muting,
  • frontend muting,

If your community gets a asshole, it's members can downvote him and mute up to a point a frontend will mute him, he won't get neither rewards nor audience (incentive to bee an ashole significantly decreased).
I remember reddit communities it was cancer, it still is. I use reddit once a month or even less frequently. I remember one fine example of it when some r/israel or sth like that published an article defaming Poles during WW2 based only on few Jews opinion (what's important they were not witnesses of any wrongdoing). Every comment trying to point out the historic research based data was removed. So the community tried to publish articles about Jews selling out Jews in occupied Poland, Nazi collaboration among Jews (there were instances of collaboration among both Polish Jews and Poles, but they were individual ones not shared not supported by majority). These articles were removed on pretext that they do not represent the community topic which was Isreael, not Jews [sic!] While at the same time the article about Poles and Jews in occupied Poland did not violate community's rules. And it happens everywhere on reddit and is supported by biased moderation and reddit owners...

BTW there's one idea that occurred to me, concerning your post - how to implement discussion while not messing up your profile with short irrelevant posts that you don't want people to visit your profile find in the first place (I want people to notice my first-class posts, not d.buzz twitter-like posts).
So there's an app by @revo https://d-hiver.herokuapp.com It's pretty dead right now, but all it does is create a one-time seed post and your next discussions are actually responses/comments to your seed post.

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Community discussion via @dbuzz ? Now that's an enlightened idea. I seem to recall the NM community was VERY ANTI dbuzz when I suggested it many moons ago. I'm using it and think it's great - much smarter than using discord. You can carry on a short form twitter style chat that's transparent and earn up to 1 Hive x 8 per day. Displaying chat in the community would be as simple as choosing a specific hashtag and the community choose to display all buzz posts that use that tag. And yes, dbuzz is working on and about to release the auto-cross-post function from the onchain dbuzz to twitter. @chrisrice is doing great things in taking this forward.

Thanks for tagging me @artemislives, I replied to one other comment here and I also left a comment.

P.S. What is the "NM" community?

Its the Natural Medicine Community. We didn't know much about d.buzz to be honest and never had a particularly extended conversation about it nor did we all (the curators in discussion, and wider community) say we liked it one way or another, as none of us had used it or seen it in action. HIVE is always in flux and flow - one of the things we love about it. Really interested to see d.buzz in action more now. Very easy to miss things on HIVE - there's always a lot going on!

The old forum project that died out was ChainBB. I really liked it and wish it had continued. It would be great if someone picked up the mantle. It was a great example of how the blockchain content could be formatted in a variety of ways.

There was a dapp for this under the old Steem but it was separate from the main front ends - damn if I can't remember what it was called!

Exactly! ChainBB is the one you are referring to @riverflows. Bryan saved me a heap of time so I don't have to go hunting out there looking for the botch name. :)

I"m not sure that it was called that! I think there was something that started with 'M' - driving me nuts I can't think of it.

@nateonsteemit can you remember? @bozz I seemed to remember you were on it a bit but my memory might be wrong?

Are you talking about musing? That was a question and answer platform. Qello was picking up that mantle last I knew.

Ah, great.. Yes!!! I liked that and I remember seeing you there!!! Thanks

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Well, I'm almost sure it was indeed ChainBB the one that you remember. As for something that started with 'M' probably it was a name change made by @thecryptodrive and @cryptoctopus when they picked up the project baton from @jesta to develop the second iteration and last version of the platform. :)

Musing! It was Musing! Do you remember that? @p
@por500bolos

Ah yeah! I remember Musing. But that site was not like something similar to Quora or alike?

Yep! that's the one I remembered. I checked and seems like they are still online: https://musing.io

Not sure on which blockchain they are running these days. But maybe if you visit the website you could tell us which of their social features are the ones you'd like to have replicated here on Hive. :)

@tipu curate

Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 1116/1152) Liquid rewards.

Hmmm, I am just seeing this post as I wake up this morning. I will have to spend a day mulling this one over, and will certainly try to provide some input. I do use Reddit, and it's been an awesome place to land Khmer language students.

Yes, please, HIVE! Take us all to $10 hahahaha! I don't have much to comment on the co-signatories or the curation, I don't manage things at that level.

My main focuses here are the on-platform search engine and discussion forum. The PeakD search engine isn't very useful, it needs to be deeply revised so that it shows posts by interest, relevance and date of publication, in an orderly fashion. I used Hivesearcher until last week because it has those features, but it's no longer working, not sure why.

The discussion forum is necessary. I think a lot of people don't engage in Discord because they don't see the value of spending time in a secondary platform that isn't even tied to Hive in any way. I didn't know anything about @dbuzz, which was mentioned below, but I think this idea goes beyond a Twitter facsimile. I avoid Twitter as much as possible and although I can recognize this dapp's advantages, it shares Twitter's limitations because of the format and character restriction, and I feel it promotes echo-chambers, which is something I actively get away from. What we need is a forum where people can post their contributions as comments in open threads, something that's been around in the WWW for decades.

I'm all for big customization, particularly with regards to images. I don't know if this should go here as we're not discussing posts, but I think it's an important topic to brush: At posting level, I think one of the greatest limitations of Hive is that it requires coding, however simple, for the posts to be customized and look nice. I've learned to love that, but most users aren't thrilled by having to write even a single line of code. However, if the codes could be automatically generated (and identified by color) with a click in the formatting menu, I'm sure that'd boost user interest.

Hi @drrune,

Thanks for commenting about @dbuzz and I love your suggestion about switching the markup for built-in buttons for formatting.

I am not sure if Twitter is more of an echo chamber because of it's 280 character limit or because of it's AI recommendation algorithms + censorship.

Having said that, I think it's more up to the individual as to whether or not they are closed minded, or open minded and searching for additional perspectives.

I'd also like to point out that #MicroBlogging is part of the social media eco-system, and even if You don't like it, other people do and I believe #Hive should have ALL the popular social media formats in the form of #Dapps and even more than that.

Thanks again for commenting and if you want to check us out, you can login with your #PostingKey or #HiveKeychain 😎✌️

~ @chrisrice

I like the idea of micro blogging and appreciate d.buzz for sure, but I don't necessarily want it in my blog list. So it seems to me just the organisation of where it appears.

Yeah, the organization of NON-DBuzz frontends.

  • If we start a blogging platform we will make it easy to navigate between shortform and longform content.

It will happen eventually 😊✌️

Posted via D.Buzz

Oh that's brilliant, very good to hear! That's exactly what is needed. Now you're exciting me Chris... !!!

If anything is changed in relation to #Communities or #Hashtags, it should be on the frontend level, not the blockchain level IMO @guiltyparties.

Especialky since Dapps like @dbuzz already setup their Community and are building around it.

Nothing is stopping @peakd or @hiveblog from making their frontend more #hashtag centered 👍🙂

Fab. I will check it out more thoroughly when I get a chance... thanks for stopping by.

Thanks too and enjoy your #Day + #Night 😊✌️

Holy crap! I think this post only lacks the upvote of @haejin, @therealwolf and @smartsteem babe. Let me correct that! Hahahaha

Thankyou!!! That's a bit kind! xxxx

Haha my pleasure babe. The only problem is that my voice is too low frequency to be heard by some fishes. :)

Been too darn busy lately, but just had a quick read, and I support all your points. I created the ASEAN Hive Community quite a long time ago, hoping it would grow organically, and to my surprise it has blossomed to over 100 subscribers, but even though the community is for Southeast Asian content, it is considered too general, and will never get whale support.

I've wanted to give up this project, as it's truly a labor of love. I did curation posts for a while, but only made 3 cents per post, so I did have stop that. My upvote power is only 3 cents when fully charged, but yet people continue posting within. I hate to give up on the community, but it will never have powerful upvotes, so I'm sad to see I can't offer anything to the people posting within.

Anyways, I digress, but the best point I see is blocking autovotes from upvoting community discussions. This would avoid a potential issue like the shortform Dapps have brought forward, like Appics and Dapplr, who some think shouldn't be allowed on the main Hive feeds.

Hmm....I'll keep mulling it over and see if I have anything else to add.