Finding Perspective on HF21 -- Actions Speak Louder Than Words

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(Edited)

Hardfork day is approach in August 27th. This one has been contentious. Unfortunately not among the vaunted group of Steemians who control the fate of this platform. The top 20 witnesses. If it was contentious, they sure have not shared that with the community.

In many ways, my thoughts here will mean very little. So, read on if you’re curious but know that they will not change what is coming. You might gain some perspective though.

As I thought about my third anniversary here on the platform, I also found myself thinking about the various phases and changes it has gone through.

When I first arrived here, the reward split was 50/50. There was a super linear curve on those upvotes. Everyone had 40 votes each day to share. Few people actually used those votes. Those who did needed a lot of SP to even give a one cent vote. It meant the larger stakeholders needed to find and upvote good content for small stakeholders and newbies to gain a foothold.

As the price of Steem drifted downward toward seven cents the complaining about rewards, or lack of them, rose ever higher. Then the trending page wasn’t about posts being bid-bot up, they were about posts getting autovotes from large stakeholders on a regular basis no matter what they wrote.

There were large stakeholders actually out looking for and upvoting posts of smaller accounts. Some curation guilds formed. Some were really good about finding and upvoting deserving posts. Others were about circle-jerking themselves. After the ability to delegate arrived, that circle-jerking got even worse.

Then the idea of changing the reward curve gained traction. There was considerable debate over how it should be changed. A group of whales decided they would impose a version of the curve on their own. If a post was upvote over a certain level of megavests, this group would counter it with downvotes. Once again, smaller accounts getting a shot at growing was getting knocked down.

Eventually, the decision was made to make the curve linear and change the reward split to 75/25.

Bid-bots entered the picture. Fewer and fewer large stake holders continued to actually find and upvote posts to reward good content. They make more off of delegating to bots and didn’t have to spend the time actually working on making the platform content better.

Self-voting and bid-bots became a point of contention. The wrath of stakeholders of all sizes was visited largely on the smaller to mid-size accounts who self-voted or used bid-bots. The larger accounts could fight back when anyone tried to punish them.

It was easier to hit at the smaller guys. The ones who didn’t have enough stake to actual impact the platform like those large stake holders could. There were legit targets among the smaller ones. The spammers and vote farmers who used self-voting and circle jerks to draw off the reward pool for crap content.

Those two issues aside, it was possible for smaller accounts and newbies to grow if they created decent content and worked to a build a network. That is and has been a constant. The speed of that growth was the main factor.

HF20 came along. The introduction of RCs. An effort to stop the influx of spammers and set the platform up for better scaling down the road. The immediate impact was on smaller accounts. They needed to be able to post and especially to be able to comment in order to grow on the platform.

They lacked enough RCs to to do either effectively. The community came to their aid. Smaller accounts showing promise received delegations from other members to get them up on their feet.

Once again the price was drifting downward. Once again the complaining and the finger pointing was rising. This time the prime target was the reward split. The push was to return to the 50/50 of before. Changing the reward curve and allowing free downvotes became part of the package. Since the authors were taking a hit, the witnesses decided they could take a second one part of their reward pool would fund the SPS.

The change to the reward curve is not going to be as super linear as the first one was. It will be superlinear and then move toward linear. While the previous one was totally in favour of the large stakeholders getting larger, this one has at least some effort to give the smaller accounts a chance. The question is, will it?

As we move toward HF21 there is a lot of hype around how everyone should be downvoting. How downvoting is the way to go in order to support Steem and make things work.

Get your eye off the wrong ball people.

Focusing on those downvotes, the small guys self-voting and using bid bots gets the attention of who really needs to be stepping up to the plate to do their part. Those large stakeholders with their stake delegated to bid-bots who should be removing those delegations and getting busy doing what they claimed was going to happen.

They claimed that making the curation rewards 50/50 would be incentive for them to manually curate and seek out good content. The silence about them actually stepping up to do that is deafening.

Large stakeholders?? Are you removing delegations so you can roll up your sleeves and get to work or aren’t you?

We’re waiting to hear from you. Actions speak louder than words and we’re not seeing either yet.



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32 comments
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Whatever happens the steem-rich do OK -

Marx is looking at Steem from his grave and feeling very smug.

This is precisely what he said would happen when you have an entirely unfettered capitalist class pulling the strings.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I can't claim to having much knowledge of Marx so I'll take your word for it.

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There is always hard fork 22 to fix the problems if any of hf21. I think hf22 will be being requested pretty quickly, or a roll back will occur. I don't know if that has ever happened before, but no doubt, they will say hf21 can not be rolled back, all because of the SPS part of it. So we will wait on hf22, and hope it works better.

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When someone is going to drop a baby out the window, you stop them before they do it.

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I have only been on steem block chain for 2 years, and only gone through one HF, (HF20), it was not that good it has caused issues, it still has issues, but those issues only bother the non-important people like me. It all works fine for those that approved HF20 or there would have been some changes. I am sure HF21 is going to work fine for the important people, and once again the non-important people like me will just have to live with it, or move on.

The important people do not think they are sending the baby on a free-fall, the free fall was caused by the market, not by the decisions of the important people who decided HF20 was the cure all of cure all of spam problems, and other problems, of how it was going to make it so so easy for everyone to make steem available for all their friends for free and onboard them via the everyone can make free tokens to onboard friends and family members. This has obviously worked miracles for the onboarding of new people to steem. HF21 will work just fine for the people it is meant to work for, it is just not meant to work for people like me, or so it seems at this point, In six months I may be singing a different tune, i doubt it, but miracles can happen, just look at all the new onboarded people from HF20, and how many of those stuck around.

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It is not meant to work for anyone except large stakeholders. It's ridiculous. I thought HF20 was great in every way, honestly. The only problem was the lack of information to new users and small acccounts. RC restrictions could be easily bypassed. Ironically enough, not cmmunicating the important stuff has always been a major issue on this social platform.

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HF22 is already in the works for SMTs, Communities and whatever else. Rolling back as HF is out of the question so we've been told when the question came up during Witness Chats. Once the changes are made and blocks generated it's not as simple as installing the previous version again.

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I figured that it would be one of those we can not undo things once it is signed off. They just have too many sticks in the fire to make it easy to quench out. At least the witness know it is undoable with out another hardfork.

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(Edited)

The reward split was changed way before the Whale Experiment, and the Whale Experiment did not knock down the little guy, quite the opposite actually, it gave the little guy more than 10x the voting power. Linear was much demanded by the community way before the experiment and delegations as well, and the reason why the experiment happened was because linear was not included in HF17, as it was by far the most popular demand and everyone expected it to be included in that HF. The rest of your story also leaves much to be desired as for how things happened, but I'm not here to rewrite your entire spiel which seemingly is born out of a sense of entitlement to be heard/queried regarding these changes.

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(Edited)

Your recollection may differ from mine. The whale experiment most definitely did not give the little guy more.
It took away from any little guy who got a whale vote more than their arbitrarily set threshold. What did give the little guy a lot more .. possibly 10x was when the change to linear happened and that was only a brief period until the larger stakeholders realized they needed to adjust their voting levels to distribute their stake more ...

With many of them that lasted until they realized they could make passive return delegating to bid bots rather than actual curation.

As for your claim that I have written this post out of a sense of entitlement ... would that be the same sense of entitlement that brings you to my post behaving like a dick?

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Your recollection may differ from mine. The whale experiment most definitely did not give the little guy more.
It took away from any little guy who got a whale vote more than their arbitrarily set threshold. What did give the little guy a lot more .. possibly 10x was when the change to linear happened and that was only a brief period until the larger stakeholders realized they needed to adjust their voting levels to distribute their stake more ...

The Whale Experiment directly increased the little guys voting power by more than 10 times, this is easy to see if you go back and read the comments and if you look at how big the votes were before and after the Whale Experiment.

As for your claim that I have written this post out of a sense of entitlement ... would that be the same sense of entitlement that brings you to my post behaving like a dick?

What was exactly the dick behavior you accuse me of? Remarking that you seemingly are entitled to be heard/queried about these changes? Is so let me offer you a hug, it seems like you need a hug since I dared to point out that you ain't entitled to be listened to.

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I noticed my voting power explode as well. Very cool, plus have you seen the Steem Whales? Very few powering down compared to before. I am hoping for a moon shot for Steem in the next few weeks. The experiment should have been announced as many people are upset.

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I am also very bullish! My voting power went up from 1 cent to 3 cents because of this experiment. That's amazing.

The whale experiment most definitely did not give the little guy more.

Sure as shit you couldn't be more mistaken about it. You thought about what else you're mistaken about, besides what I pointed out in my initial comment? I would, seems that your memory is shit and your narrative of "whales are greedy" doesn't hold any water, wonder what else is myth.

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Hi, @shadowspub!

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Hi @shadowspub!

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I'm not sure they've undelegated, and I'm not sure they are doing that anytime soon

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I have no doubt about them not having undelegated or hopes that they actually will. The claims were smoke and mirrors to try to get people to just accept their self-serving changes.

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I am glad that @artemisnorth shared this during PYPT because it is an excellent piece of writing! I always learn so much from you, especially about how things were prior to my coming to the platform! I do hope those large stakeholders step up to the plate! 🤞
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sadly I'm not holding my breath. Would be glad to be shown to be wrong on this but I have a suspicion I wont be.

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They claimed that making the curation rewards 50/50 would be incentive for them to manually curate and seek out good content... Large stakeholders?? Are you removing delegations so you can roll up your sleeves and get to work or aren’t you?

This would actually be an interesting question to raise at the Witness Chat today... 🤔

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Thanks for engaging with posts presented on PYPT

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After three years here I think the problem that hit Steem was delegations, all of a sudden I saw curation trails, bid bots, guys who were delegated Steem self voting. If delegation didn't happen people would have to vote for their rewards, bid bots would disappear, but this isn't going to happen because it will hurt a lot of people and some of these are big guys. In fact it would hurt me because I make a few cents per post mostly from two places that rely on delegations, Actifit and Busy. but frankly if delegations weren't possible I think it would have the better content receiving more rewards, that of course would leave me screwed with only my 0.003 cent self vote which isn't even dust.

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yeah delegation has provided a lot of good on the platform. I have several delegations out helping smaller accounts have enough RCs to function and supporting some projects I like.

BUT

you have a point on how delegation can be used to support some of the negative problems. Was recently pointed toward an account with a substantial amount of delegation who does something like 90% of his voting is himself. That is an abuse and others have been known to do similar.

Sort of one of the got to take the good with the bad situations.


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Hi @shadowspub, this is an important message regarding your delegation-mining of MAPX tokens. We have reached our target of 9,000 tokens sold and are therefore stopping the delegation-mining. I therefore request that you undelegate from the @map10k account at your earliest convenience. You will be sent MAPX tokens for the days delegated since your last earnt token-transfer.

Many thanks for supporting MAPX. There is now delegation-mining of the MAPXV token; it works in the same way but please read that article link as the earning rate is different because the token price is higher.

Please let me know in a reply to this comment once you have undelegated and I will then confirm when your MAPX tokens are sent to you.

Thanks again!

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thanks for letting me know. I have undelegated the 200SP from map10k and delegated 300 to mapxv

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Looking at my records, you were last sent 1 MAPX token on the 10th August, so am sending you 0.2 MAPX for the extra 2 days.

Thanks very much, and will update my MAPXV records too!

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Just to add, great article. I have written numerous times on these issues, sometimes on my personal blog, but few listen or care, but also in funds such as MAPX and MAPXV where I need to at least estimate the impact post-HF21.

The EIP will achieve none of the aims it claims to set itself. One of the "deafening silence" you mention is that Vandeberg still has not published his third deep dive on that 50% curation rewards - that's only 3 months after the first two and I expect will never be posted. Maybe he actually did the mathematics. Maybe someone did it for him. Perhaps he is now unwilling to share that with others.

Whatever... the whole EIP package will hit the small accounts again. What's the point of on-boarding then? Look at that reward curve carefully and see how low value posts get hammered down even more. This means that a post reward that looks like 50 cents could go down to about 11 cents to the author.

I could go on...

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the biggest outcry will happen after the impact is seen I expect. By then it is too late. Has been pretty much too late from the point when the community actually heard the EIP was being added to HF21. There are some who claim the vote hasn't happened until the witnesses start running the HF, what a crock. The decision was made when Steemit Inc was advised to code it in.

The top 20 own the decision on these changes, not that the smaller stakeholders can do much about that.


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