Sad, but not yet defeated.

in #hardfork2 years ago (edited)

What happens now?

I'm not defeated, but I'm feeling pretty close. I've pulled all my delegations and when they are returned in 5 days, I will begin powering down for the first time EVER, since joining steemit in 2016.

This makes me incredibly sad. For those of you in my DM all night, yes, you're right. I've probably been one of the top pro-steem cheerleaders. But I don't believe in cheering blindly.

I've been taught to fight for what you believe in- and submit to authority you can trust to represent you, and I believe a lot of us are not being represented.

I am NOT a quitter, but there are times for compromise and there are times to cut ties. Which situation is this? It appears to be heading in the direction of the latter, and I'm preparing for that.

But there is always hope. Everyone keeps saying it's too late, but is it?

This is ultimately a human system, based on human decisions. It isn't too late until it's over.

From what I've heard, this hard fork was supposed to go forward WITHOUT this 50/50 proposal, and then it was added before it was too late. See? If it's not too late to add it at the last minute, it's not too late to take it back off.

Why the rush? Why so much?

@justineh has calculated that when all is said and done with this proposed hard fork, authors will lose 42% of their rewards: part in the new rewards dispersement (the 50/50 proposal) and part for supporting the SPS (worker proposal for the community).

I've already shown that the people voting on the 50/50 rewards system have the most to at least initially gain, and that is undeniable.

Undeniable.

It's pure math, folks. We can all say what we HOPE to happen in the future, but we KNOW that the beginning of this takes 33% of author rewards and puts it directly into curation rewards. While we are "waiting to see" what might happen.... the large accounts are getting larger.

The large accounts (orcas and whales) will have lost absolutely nothing. They will have actually GAINED SIGNIFICANTLY. It's a totally different story for the small and medium (plankton, minnows, and dolphins) accounts. At least initially, and once again, that is based on MATH, not HOPE.

Most content creators cannot afford to lose 33% of their author rewards, and the doubling of their curation rewards does not come close to making up for that huge loss. Think it doesn't affect you? You can figure it out yourself on steemworld.org/@username, or I can even do it for you if you want to see exactly what this means for you.

The small accounts will see their curation rewards double pennies, and the large accounts will see their rewards double from 4000 SP a month to 8000 SP a month and beyond!

This is a MASSIVE conflict of interest.

Something that financially benefits only the top accounts and top witnesses so greatly, and actually harms the small accounts should be tossed. How can the top witnesses not recognize this as a clear bias?

Honestly?

I have less of a problem with the drop in author rewards and more of a problem with WHERE the diverted money is going.

Do authors make too much money on their own work? Debatable.

But the solution proposed is...take it away and double the pay of the curators? What? Why?

If you want to cut the pay of authors, I could actually accept that proposal EASIER if the 33% cut went to funding the SPS (for the community).

Instead of 50/50,
50/25/25 makes more sense. At least there, authors could give up 33% of their salary to the community as a whole!

Arbitrarily doubling the salary of the curators needs a BIT more convincing than "well authors make too much."

Well... Why should curators make more? They are already making 25% on work that they did not create.

Curating (in the real world) is where we support things we enjoy. We go to the movies, we "curate" that movie by paying for a ticket. The payment back to us is the 2 hours of entertainment provided by the author. We don't get to stand outside and wait for our 25% of tickets sales.

We enjoy an author? We buy their book. We support their work because THEIR brain has entertained us. THAT is our payment. We don't get a check from the author after we've finished reading.

Here on Steemit, we reward curators with their enjoyment of our work AND a 25% payment out of authors' pay- as an ADDITIONAL thank you for supporting their work. Right, wrong, or indifferent, THAT is what we have all become accustomed to, and the way Steemit functions.

I love being a content creator. BUT I AM ALSO A CURATOR. I am speaking on behalf of BOTH. I currently curate TWICE as much as suggested, but I fully believe that the content creator is worth 75% of the rewards.

But Steemit thinks curators are due more? Ok. Why?

If this is a case of cutting the authors pay because authors make too much, then fine! Deal with that separately. Cut their pay and put it back into the community by funding the SPS!

But just because you want authors to make less, curators automatically get to make more??? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Not only that... But why such a drastic overhaul of a system?

You know there are a lot more numbers between 75/25 and 50/50.

70/30, anyone?

Why not TEST IT GENTLY before throwing the newbies to the wolves? Have we learned nothing from HF20? Yes, there were different things on the agenda for HF20, but you know what is the same?

Too much, too fast.

Winnowing out small accounts.

Preparing for a future that may never come because you're too busy fixing a hole in the wall while the house is burning down.

It's not too late.

Take the 50/50 part OUT of HF21 and make it a singular discussion instead of lumping it into an "all-or-nothing" deal where witnesses MUST vote Yes for all or No for all. I KNOW there are witnesses with reservations. But they are not getting the opportunity to reject PART of the hard fork. TAKE OUT 50/50 so they can speak their minds ON THIS ISSUE ALONE.

I have a feeling the money to be made for large accounts is too much of a temptation for the 50/50 to get tossed. After all, greed is part of the human condition.

But until the bitter end, there is always hope.

I really would love to continue this discussion with everyone who has been a part of it so far. I think this is THAT important - and for that reason, I'm about to tag everyone who has expressed their opinion in DM or on the last 2 posts. I don't really apologize. I'm inviting you to make your voice be heard.

@fionasfavourites, @zekepickleman, @bluefinstudios, @thekittygirl, @blockurator, @omra-sky, @zanoni, @greencross, @naltedtirt, @audreybits, @enginewitty, @saffisara, @eveningart, @snook, @whatsup, @guiltyparties, @hazem91, @darrenfj, @brisby, @elsiekjay, @imealien, @nickyhavey, @nathanmars, @chekohler, @penderis, @bengy, @josediccus, @thehive, @improv, @shadowspub, @notconvinced, @bossel, @jaynie, @johneyreacko, @dswigle, @bigtakosensei, @rebeccabe, @arcange, @derekrichardson, @wonderwop, @distantsignal, @clixmoney, @fredkese, @mariannewest, @dfinney, @ange.nkuru, @dkkarolien, @thekitchenfairy, @crimsonclad, @tcpolymath, @eonwarped, @jackmiller, @vibesforlife, @owasco, @felt.buzz, @josephsavage, @victorholyo, @crescendoofpeace, @senstless, @gduran, @themanwithnoname, @abitcoinskeptic, @mosunomotunde, @deeanndmathews, @chireerocks, @chris-the-batman, @sgt-dan, @jayna, @scarletreaper, @juliamulcahy, @jamerussell, @mcfarhat, @dutybound, @eturnerx

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How will I get those curation rewards if I don't vote for posts? Who benefits when a post is voted for?

Anyone here with SP, stands a chance to earn more, by supporting others. What did you authors do with all the SP you earned? How are you not able to offset some of the post loss by curating others?

By powering down, you're already saying you're not going to be one of these people who's here to help.

This is 100% organic.

Screenshot (592).png

You had your SP delegated away, so that means you haven't been able to support authors to your full potential, like so many others here. I've been curating manually for nearly three years. I get a raise. I get a raise for helping authors. More people getting a raise for helping authors means more folks might want to get out there and vote, instead of delegating away their SP, or selling votes. They don't vote TODAY. Authors took a huge hit since most of the SP became unavailable to be used to vote for posts.

I can post and I can curate. I lose some on posts, I'll gain some for curating. I get NOTHING if I panic and leave. Everyone else who I try to support gets NOTHING if I panic and leave.

What's doing more harm now? The hardfork, or this reaction to something that hasn't even happened yet.

Do you really want it to remain more profitable for people to be paid to look away? What good is that to a content producer? That's what's been happening for years! People are paid to look away. Try to give them a reason to look, and vote again, and HOLY SHIT lets run for the hills!

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Fascinating exchange of thoughts folks.

I was initially vexed at these changes because of reading the headlines of author rewards getting slashed by up to 33% possibly more (in the short term). But then I thought "hang on a second, I can take my delegations back and carry on curating and get bigger rewards for it".

Personally, when faced with a challenge like this, the emotional response always takes first spot, we're humans, it's how it works. Then the logical system kicks in and I can see the intention of the changes to stop bots and bid bots taking over (although they kinda already have) and encourage engagement via curation.

If it means more people vote on your post (and fingers crossed it will) then potentially, it will make a big difference to authors.

It's all ifs and buts right now, we won't know for sure and this is all an experiment anyway. You'll always have bad actors in any platform so I don't think powering down and leaving is the right decision.

Emotions are high, understandable. I've invested a lot of time in to this platform, not money, and got to where I am now from changing my approach multiple times to see what resonates the most with people to give me a fighting chance to grow my account.

Let's face it, any new person coming to the platform expecting to make thousands in their first month is deluded, I don't want those type of people here anyway. It's a long term thing, we're talking about years, of making connections, building your account. This is a totally new model of earning from content, the likes we haven't seen before and the development on the steem blockchain is unrivalled against other blockchain social media platforms in the space.

After long discussions and much thought, I won't be going anywhere and want to stick around to see the platform succeed. I'm not going back to FB that's for sure!

Take some time out, I think emotions have been high on such a delicate subject and things become clear when you step out of the furnace.

Take it easy

Nicky

Posted using Partiko Android

I didn't look away. I looked right here and saw you voting on your own comment.

That's right. Does it look like I do that all the time? Is this that perfect opportunity for you to ignore anything good I may have done in my life so you can point out that one bad thing you saw today, with the hopes of what? Making me look like a bad guy? I'm pretty sure I got that covered, buddy.

I wonder how feasible it would be for witnesses to set reward split levels in their configurations. Then the actual division at payout could be a moving 7 day average of configs assigned to each block. That would allow for each witness to target specific levels, justify their targets, and adapt as the community adapts.

There are tons of other components that work this way (like the 3.5 day average feed price used to calculate the portion of payout going to SBD) so the technical hurdles can't be too difficult.

This sounds like a good middle ground compromise!

there are many! let's take the time to flesh this out and SEE who it hurts before just jumping into a decision that initially hurts so many small accounts (the current 50/50)

this is a discussion that DESERVES to be handled alone and handled right. NOT quick and risky!

I think there are many ways to tackle this - but the point is... we can't adjust it if it just gets voted on lumped into a yes/no deal. This is TOO big of a discussion and there are SO many options that take us in a new direction WITHOUT burning the house down in one swift move. I love that your comment immediately brought in another suggestion. It's proof that if we put our minds together - there IS a compromise.

they need to take it off the hardfork so it can be a much more open and varied discusssion.

why not a slider or setting for content creators to set what they are offering curators?

the platform will find its balancewith the give and take between the two groups in order for each to grow. When a content creator sets their rate too high in relation to the quality of their work, the curators wont be upvoting and the creator will need to rethink their rate.

That's an order of magnitude more complex from a technical perspective.

It would also require supporting development from every front-end and voting service running on Steem.

You can already do this without too much trouble as long as the number is more than 25%. If you removed mandatory curation from the blockchain side I could spin up the back end of user-selected curation in a day or two. Somebody else would have to do the interface.

I volunteer you as tribute.

Hehhehee

Posted using Partiko Android

May the odds be ever in your favor.

ha! his odds... not mine. i volunteered him :)

it is.. not impossible though. It happens elsewhere .. Choon comes to mind.

If the likes of you who've been here for a longtime want to leave, then think it's no longer for me

Posted using Partiko Android

everyone must come to the realization of where that line is for them... I know that if they are unwilling to change this proposal, we have reached that line for me.
:(

Means we gonna loose a lot of people here

maybe not. maybe more people will stay. who can predict? I can only speak for myself. and i know what that means.

Is the only solution a complete abandonment of STEEM? Or will we see the need for new interactions rise from the transformation? This is a largely ignorant position, but I am of the mind, that despite modifications to the payout structure, individuals will still earn STEEM. However, such a drastic difference in the type of activity done to earn STEEM may level the playing field in a large scope. Couldn't it be argued that the previous reward scheme favored authors too greatly? That remains another topic for discussion, but I cannot help but feel that the impact of the change may not be as poignant as feared. If so, I can only recommend we adapt.

Couldn't it be argued that the previous reward scheme favored authors too greatly?

If this were true then presumably Steem would be swarming with high-quality authors who were creating content that was extremely appealing to the rest of the world.

Instead we have... well. It's pretty clear that Steem is not offering authors anything particularly valuable, and that the people in charge of it aren't interested in changing that.

So what do we have here? Why are there so many big accounts and so many little accounts? Who are the middle class, and where do they, if at all factor in? Since we're under the assumption, as you so aptly put, 'presumably Steem would be swarming with high-quality' -- but it's not, if I'm to understand you correctly. As a result, is this dystopia simply so rotten to a malevolent core that we should abandoned ship? Or is this rhetoric drawn out and overplayed that the STEEM engine is out of coal and fated to destruction so long as we keep going in 'this direction'?

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Absolutely agree with you!

Maybe the real background of HF21 is a try to keep the last investors and whales on board?

A try to rescue what's broken already?
I see very hard times coming for Steem.
HF21 and the start of Voice will have such an impact on Steem nobody can imagine.
It's simply like:

1+1=2

Have a nice day, I completely understand your thinking.
Tom

Posted using Partiko Android

I do believe you're right...

but wouldn't it be nice to be wrong? a lot of my friends here.. I dont' want anyone hurt. but everyone makes decisions for themselves based on their situation.

all we can do is be responsible for what we know.

you have a nice day too - and good luck to you! :)

Yes, I hope we are wrong...
But the facts speak another language
Sad...

Posted using Partiko Android

hmmmm facts do that.

very sad

I also started to power down recently for the first time during all my 2 years on steem. It sad to see new dolphins not being supported by whales. It seems just a business, but if most dolphins and minnows will start to power down, who will create content to be curated ? Will they just curate each other ? Anyway, the power is not in our hands, that's why we have only two options, or to accept everything and keep posting or to leave at all. But with posting for such rewards, the only way to feel our work is to power down. I'm also sad for a lot of veterans who are powering down, but it seems if someone has 5000 or 10000 sp is not that much. From 100k it's considered to invest it, but for me I will need 10 years to get to 100k and in my real life I don't have other money, so I will buy finally a good pc and a quality camera and help myself and my family. I have a little kid after all and I need to think about his future.

you're exactly right

So far - the only option is "take it or leave it."

There is no "let's wait and talk about this more." It is only we have the power, and you do not. We have the voice, and you do not.

If that's the case, "take it or leave it" is a simple decision for me

I know in the past we two had sometimes different opinions, but on that point I agree with you 100%!
Wish you and your family all the best.
Tom

Posted using Partiko Android

I have had responses from some of my current witnesses. I appreciate that as I am one of their constituents. The concerns you express are viable and I understand as well as empathize with your current state of mind concerning our STEEM World and the direction it is taking.

You, like myself and many others, are devoted and loyal to this platform. That may be why at times we are critical of its direction. Constructive criticism is not disloyalty, actually; it is a sign of great loyalty!

Since I believe this post deserves mass distribution, I will be tagging a number of witnesses I currently and have in the past endorsed below.

actifit @actifitadsactly @adsactlyaggroed @aggroedats-witness @ats-witness
ausbitbank @ausbitbankc0ff33a @c0ff33aclayop @clayopdanielsaori @danielsaori
drakos @drakosenginewitty @enginewittyfollowbtcnews @followbtcnewsfyrst-witness @fyrst-witness
guiltyparties @guiltypartiesjackmiller @jackmillerjustyy @justyymahdiyari @mahdiyari
neoxian @neoxianpfunk @pfunkpharesim @pharesimpoetsunited @poetsunited
reggaemuffin @reggaemuffinroelandp @roelandpsteemgigs @steemgigssteemitboard @steemitboard
themarkymark @themarkymarktimcliff @timcliffura-soul @ura-soulyabapmatt @yabapmatt
yehey @yeheyquochuy @quochuy (NEW)

The above list is not current as I am reviewing my witness endorsements due to HF21 as well as other factors.

A good resource to see what witnesses are up to is provided by @thewitnesspage a compendium of current witness blogs and witness related matters managed by @jackmiller.

For a look at the technical performance of witnesses, one may visit https://steemian.info/witnesses managed by the witness @drakos.

Thanks for doing that sarge! don't know what becomes of anything anymore - but I do know - no one can say I didn't fight for what I believe in!

and... three posts with all organic upvotes and resteems and comments galore?

I think a lot of people find this topic worthy of discussing MUCH longer.

think we will be heard? hm.. i guess we will see.

Unlike those that were not happy about the election of my current President and threatened to leave the Country for places North of the border, I have chosen not to take that route.

It may be viewed by some to be a sinking ship but, I for one am here for the long haul. I guess I will stay and help bail out the water so to speak.

I am happy to see that there are people who feel convicted to stay! It broke my heart months ago to see certain people leave- but at the time, I also felt convicted to stay.

Now ... i can say I know how heartbroken they felt to make that decision.

I still hold out hope that in one miraculous moment - they decide to pull the 50/50 off this hard fork! it will bring such relief that only are they willing to discuss this longer and wait for better timing - but that our voices were heard???

it will have made this whole thing worthwhile.

until then - get your buckets ready Sarge ;) Bail that water out! :)

!SHADE 2



Hi dreemsteem the SHADE tokens are on the way.
Thanks for sharing SHADE
To view or Trade SHADE visit steem-engine.com

Cool to see your new one, like that guy, seems like a good soul.

Posted using Partiko Android

If and when you learn their positions on eip, I'd love to know. I will move my witness votes around to vote only for those who are opposed to EIP in hf21. I think all of us who oppose eip in hf21 should, but we need more information!

Posted using Partiko Android

You may wish to check out these two links to stay abreast of the situation as it unfolds as well as posts by witnesses and their position.

https://steemian.info/witnesses

https://www.steempeak.com/@thewitnesspage

I would also suggest visiting your witnesses blogs and following the tags #hardfork and #hf21. That is how I do it.

That's what I've been doing, but there's very little clarity from any of those opposing it. I mean, from some, but not clearly from 30 of them that I can make my votes for.

Weird that no one wants to go on record for something they believe in...

Posted using Partiko Android

It's nice out here.

Not long after HF20 - largely but not entirely because of the last round of this discussion - I made the decision to power down 80% or so of my stake, and I don't regret it for an instant. I've done much better financially with that money in that time than I could have by holding it as Steem Power, and also had a better time with it.

These days I hold SP primarily as a means of having RCs for projects outside of the blogging ecosystem, and powering up again just isn't remotely on my radar.

I understand your reasoning - but it absolutely breaks my heart. I hate to see what's happening here. This was my home for so long - and FAMILY was here. (is here!) I still hold out hope that they can stop the madness and slow down. That they can THINK about the future, but also THINK about the present!!!!

Without a healthy present - there IS NO healthy future!

Oof.

Posted using Partiko Android

I know 3 Steemians who rely on their author rewards to physically survive. They cash out to pay bills, rent and to buy food. A 30+% cut in earnings will destroy them, and the experiment that is Steem will have suffered its first major defeat - the destruction of the dreamer, and the squashing of ambition.

A sad day... there's a reason I came to steem and not tezos or neo, I want creators to be rewarded.. not stake holders.

Posted using Partiko Android

Unless you already are counting me - I am one of the people who lives off of steem money. I am worried, but also an optimist. I'm not planning to do anything until this goes through.

This post however, makes me understand what might be coming in a much stronger way than anyI have read before. All along I have been wondering what would make the bigger accounts vote for me and other small accounts when they never have before. Wouldn't they just vote for each other more?

Hoping and praying this is better than it seems.

I think we need more than hope and prayers! We need to vote for witnesses who will oppose eip! And continue making our voices heard!

Posted using Partiko Android

Well, where is that list of witnesses?

Still seeking. I think @drakos is the only one I'm sure of. It's hard to get answers, but we'll keep pushing!

@fitinfun and @improv - @shadowspub put up a poll asking specifically - ALL the top witnesses to weigh in on this.

The last I checked (which was yesterday... so this could have changed... only two had responded.)

Go check @shadowspub post to see if any more have answered!

Nice! Most of them are never heard from, so this is not a surprise.

I really appreciate this and especially your numbers post, with the red and green, @dreemsteem. I will be sending that one to a few places tomorrow. I don't know if it will help, but maybe.

Hopefully, my good ability to sleep will not fail me now. It's almost 2 am in Malaysia and I feel like my head is about to explode now.

@cervantes had a poll with more responses. And since I oppose all of EIP, and think even EIP without 50/50 will be bad for everyone without whale power, that one asks the relevant question. Really, I think this new curve is the biggest problem. It's complicated mathematically, but do you know about it? Essentially, if your post makes less than about 10 steem, it will make EVEN LESS. And the posts that make more will get the benefit.

Posted using Partiko Android

Oh, and @yabapmatt is against EIP, but won't oppose the top twenty witness majority. So we need nine more in the top twenty to oppose it.

What about @curie? They would seem to be against killing off content.

Hahahaha!
Thé naïveté!

What do you think of them?

they were an unequivocal yes in the cervantes poll..

I agree - let's make a compromise that benefits the community! not just large accounts. how hard is that??

I guess it depends on if you're a large account holder

Posted using Partiko Android

bingo.

Yes!

Posted using Partiko Android

Obviously this is a complicated situation with many parameters in the equations which all have knock-on effects which are hard to predict the outcome of accurately. For every argument here I can see a counter argument and there are valid points to be made on both sides. I see flexibility being the solution here - which could mean having the payout split created dynamically from the settings of individual witnesses, as suggested here already by @josephsavage - or it could involve the introduction of Steem Communities as was basically promised way too long ago and which have not yet surfaced. Communities can support a variety of independent settings, such as a difference in split of curator/author rewards - so once those go live, in theory, the default split becomes less significant.

I can appreciate the concern that big stakeholders will be better rewarded through upvoting others, however, here's what I see as being the argument in support of that outcome:

Steem is not an attractive investment compared to many other tokens, primarily because it's value continually drops due to inflation. From that perspective, Steem is like a leaky sieve from the perspective of investment. It is only viable if you either expect it to explode and compete with Facebook et al - or if you intend to be active on the network and make many of your own posts. Since there is only so much time in the day and so many things to post about, long term investors are pretty much forced to either continually make pointless posts to not lose the value of their investment or just pull out. This means that we see lots of shoddy posts at the top of the lists and it is discouraging to most users - plus totally invalidates the entire proof of brain mechanism that underpins the entire Steem concept. So.. by giving more rewards to curators, long term investor's lives are made a bit easier. You can always say that these people can just leave and we will only then have people who are here for the content, which is fine, but plenty will not leave and if they do - in enough numbers - the price of Steem drops even more.

It's fine to say that Authors can't afford to make content when they don't get nice payouts - but huge numbers of people (including me) have been making content totally for free for over a decade... So while, as an author, I have empathy for that position, the reality is that something is better than nothing.

For me, the bots are a bigger problem than the whales as they totally depersonalise and invalidate the underlying mechanism of post valuation. They remove the competitive aspect that has people battling to be the 'best brain' .. And so, much of the excitement of Steem is gone as a result of their use. If increasing the curation payout has an effect of chilling support for bots then that is a very good thing - though it remains to be seen if they will.

Personally, I am open for experiments - so I'm open to seeing what effects a split change has, it can always be changed back again. I personally would have gone for 66.6%/33.3% (or similar) as a middle ground.

I have said almost since the beginning that Steem is not being evolved quickly enough and I imagine that it is quite likely that we will see another team take over from Steemit Inc. in the next year or so - maybe the Steem Engine team.

If increasing the curation payout has an effect of chilling support for bots then that is a very good thing - though it remains to be seen if they will

I believe that CLRC will make purchased votes even more popular, by making it 'essential' to bid up to 16 STEEM and shift your posts onto the mostly linear part of the curve. This could be partially offset by downvote pools, but there has never been wide-spread established consensus that bid-bot content should be downvoted, and there are social costs to downvoting against consensus, so I'm not optimistic here.

I have provided a couple of possible solutions to the bid bots before - including changes to front ends so that users can remove the effect of bots from their experience and also a possibility of having Steemit inc. use their vote power to create 'official' vote selling, where the cost of the vote goes into the reward pool or is burned. I think these are better alternatives than adjusting curation/author splits - but what happens in the real world is not always in line with expectations!

Love your brain. Me personally, I would have the author choose the curation applied to each post. A simple slider would be effective enough. Some people already decline rewards or hand them off to beneficiaries. 50/50 could be the default setting and people could alter it as they saw fit.

Posted using Partiko Android

Thanks! Yes, giving the option of a slider on each post could also be interesting - it would force authors to choose community or isolation to some extent. It's all an experiment!

I would consider that for sure.

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So our government (top20) is dependent upon the votes of whales to stay in government.

Pretty much the case, no matter how we present it!

The next time I read a post from an "anti-establishment" cheerleader somewhere on our Steem blockchain, I will remember the facts and figures I put out there the other day about dead voters, voters on dead witnesses and what some others have mentioned from time to time 'those that just don't vote'.

Responsibilities exist at all levels for everything in a voting system that depends on the people.

I don't see the need to "give up" or "withdraw", what I do see is the need to take a breath and clear ones mind and start thinking along the lines of:

"OK, this is reality, what do we do to change it?"

Yesterday is in the past, it is what I do today that matters.

& cheers for taking action on what you believe in, Steem has a future!

Thank you for the DM before I read this... LOL

Today IS what matters - and that's why I wrote this post INSTEAD of just walking away.

by the way - have you noticed my witness votes? lol I updated them - BECAUSE of your post.

Imagine! People reading and growing from valuable posts... huh! what a novel idea!!! LOL

I hope Steem does have a very long and bright future. I'm glad that there are people who feel that they need to stay to make that happen.

I think I would stay too - if my voice mattered. After HF20 and the destruction of everything we had built in Welcome Wagon (over a year!!) with ONE swift move... I stayed. I fought. I worked hard.

HF21 is an indication that we haven't learned, and that we don't care to learn. We just want everything now at the expense of so many people. I can't stand beside that.

If you can - I hope you can fight until the bitter end, Sir Jack.

No matter what - I love you dearly and can't wait to see you next year. hehehehe

Ooo, he made a witness moving around post? I'll go check it out!

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Personally I make around 30 cents a post unless I use bots. For the first 6 months I hardly made one cent on each post. Steemit doesn't reward good posts and I'm fed up with it. I've hung on all this time in the vain hope that it would pick up for me and know now that if I wasn't with PHC then I would only be making less then 10 cents a post, if that. So why bother? Unless a miracle happens I'm done with steemit. I'm only hanging on until the power down finishes in another 10 weeks and then I shall probably not bother any more. Why should I spend hours every day making anything from 300 to 4000 word posts for a few cents?

Agreed 💯

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I think you are being generous here, if only it was greed but it is pure stupidity. The way things are going, there will not be any revenue for anyone. Steem relies heavily on a use case that will melt away faster than a glacier in Greenland after this hard fork.

In a world where alts are bleeding to no end, community is Steem’s last prayer but community can’t thrive without new arrivals and new arrivals WILL NOT generally dump 7000 in SP.

I see this exactly as you see it!!! Do you ever just look around and think "we must be the insane ones... because this seems so obvious to me - and they are refusing to see/ acknowledge it"

we must be the insane ones! LOL

you nurture from the ground up. you build a strong foundation. but - if they will not - if they continue to pick at the base, then what chance does the top have?

what chance does anyone have?

It feels weird I agree, to think there would be such hubris and short sightedness at the higher levels is a shocker. It feels like the Atlantean dream is sinking fast... wait! I see a whale out my window!

Hehehhe a whale??? Ask him to upvote us! 😂

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I think the whole Economic Improvement Proposal should be put on hold, not just 50/50.

The SPS is good, but the idea of free downvote pools is ripe to be abused by the folks with enough power that they can ignore the social consequences of their downvotes. And the new curve is going to hurt little accounts even more than 50/50 will, which will only encourage MORE bidbots, not less. Much like @dustsweeper is necessary for a lot of folks now so they don't lose all the pennies they get on comments, larger sums will go to bidbots so people can get return on the small votes. This doesn't seem like the solution to the problem. I'm opposed to all of it, and at the very least, think we need to take these hardforks seriously and get a voice for the average user into the conversation before we go through with more than SPS.

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voice for the average user would be so nice.

but our representatives are supposed to be our voice.

if they are not - then as @jackmiller suggested - we should choose those who represent our voice.

It may not have any sway at all - since - again - as @jackmiller suggested whale votes really hold the power over who gets moved to the top 20 witnesses.

but we have votes - and we are supposed to use them accordingly.

We all have the responsibility to vote in a way that expresses our views. I - for one - will be updating my votes as this all plays out.

Will it matter?

It matters to me.

Yep. Examining all my options now. About to post.

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Why should curators make more? They are already making 25% on work that they did not create.

I don’t understand why this is such a contentious issue.

Authors currently receive 75% of the total post reward. That’s for one single person.

Curators receive a maximum of 25% of the total post reward. That’s divided between all of its curators, which often numbers in the hundreds - and in the future (potentially) could regularly be in the thousands.

Is it really so unfair for one user to receive 75% of rewards and hundreds or thousands of others to split the remaining 25%? Would it be so absurdly unfair for one person to receive 50% while the other hundreds or thousands split the other 50%?

Also - is it so ridiculously unfair to entice staking and reward stakeholders for the STEEM that they power up? To better incentivize and reward them for assuming additional risk? Is it so unfair to give authors a risk-free 50% split of any rewards they receive, thanks in large part to the people who have bought or held STEEM, powered it up, and upvoted the author’s content?

Where is this grotesque unfairness? And which group is actually being treated unfairly?

For the life of me, I can’t figure out why this is where so many people are making their stand. Do we not want to entice more people to assume risk by purchasing STEEM and powering it up - or to at least stop dumping so much of it? Are we content with the unsustainable reward giveaways to anyone who shows up and posts the kind of stuff that can be and is found anywhere else on social media?

When are authors going to recognize that people buying STEEM and/or powering up are the ones who actually make it possible for these authors to cash out their blogging profits in order to “make a living?” When will authors stop vilifying risk-taking stakeholders for seeking profits while those same authors complain about their own risk-free profit potential?

There are other battles to fight and other more consequential protocol changes and actions/behavior that have affected both authors and curators here. Why don’t we address those issues instead of always arguing about how “bad” authors have it?

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I'm powering down as well. I've been slowly investing for 2.5 years. I was about to rant but it's just sad. Like you said it is still run by humans. And some humans have God complexes.

I'm so sorry. I feel the same sadness.

and I see that you just upvoted your own comment. A lot of people don't like this behavior - but.... that is EXACTLY what people are going to be forced to do more of.... upvote their own comments because they can earn it all back instead of giving it away to whales in curation rewards.

That's the smart money move. and a lot of people are going to figure that out, and then they'll have to make MORE adjustments and figure out MORE ways to stop people from earning.

It's ironic because I have to upvote my own comments now. In 2 to 3 days a bot will down vote it and become invisible. I tried to appeal the bot gods and they just booted me from the discord. So the bot lords are having the opposite effect than what they where going for. Me and some other investors are leaving because of @mack-bot.

This is as good a place as any to discuss and share opinions/strategies with the folks who have a great grasp of the numbers. Looks like you have them worked out fairly well and are part of the crowd communicating with each other to exchange bot fact and speculation.

I think now it falls to deciding strategy. Powering down is one of them but I can tell you are there only as a last resort. Witness voting should be what we are focusing upon like you as it is those witnesses who will make or break the vote. Is there a collection of those witnesses (I hear the vast majority) who are in favour of the change in split? If all the active engaged steemians pull their vote for the ones supporting the change in payouts, would that make a difference?

Aside from those 2, those of us staying should be talking about how to maintain our stake and grow it with different tactics if it goes through.

Will the barking dogs be heard or will the mailman just deliver the package (hf) anyhow?

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I did a post a week ago about which witnesses had declared for or against the fork:

https://steemit.com/busy/@candy49/which-witnesses-are-in-favour-of-hf21-and-which-are-against

People need to vote for those who will stop the fork and unvote those who would put it through.

Oh wonderful! Let me check that out. Thanks!

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honestly - most likely not. the witness votes that we have are stake-based.

so yep - once again, the power to put people in the top 20 is not really in our hands. its in the hands of people who hold all the money, power, voice.

i would so love to say that the barking dogs might be heard. that's kinda what this post was. a last appeal? a call to say - can we take this off the proposal and at least talk about it some more??

there is always hope. right?

If it is to be, it is up to me (us.). Alternatively, Hope is not much of a strategy.

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hope.... that they change their minds ;)

can't really force them. and they know that.

Do you remember our conversation last year in May (way before HF20) where I explained why I was leaving? I saw this type of thing coming and assure you that I take no pleasure in being correct, but this is just another example that shows I'm pretty good at reading between the lines.

My main point last year was that Steem is actually a Centralized Oligarchy modelled after the failed, nonrepresentative American Political System and would not be sustainable calling itself Decentralized.

Ned has pretty much retained full control over it's progress and as @crimsonclad mentioned in your last post on the topic that she may vote yes in HF21 to retain some of her big votes...

How is that Decentralized?

Well, Crimi has to date been active in lots of communities, mostly in one, but definitely "everywhere she can jump in and be of some assistance" (quoting myself there from a conversation about her and Jeff)

She is somewhat blunt at times, but has a heart of gold when it comes to communicating with people and she has never to date from what I know, in any way done anything to harm anyone.

So yeah, Crimi said it as it is. Nothing wrong with that. I fully support it, no matter how anyone wants to read it.

PS. While Crimi and Jeff were investing their hard earned fiat into Steem, they were nowhere near the top20 and since they have made it up there, I don't recall anything being done without her trying to do her best to communicate about it. Likewise, all I see is them putting in even more time and money, probably some from the earnings made as a top20, but definitely more than that most of the time. What they do for PAL and for Steemchat along with all the other things they support and pitch into IS NOT CHEAP!

Her and I may not necessarily agree on "everything" but hell, I swear, when I see anything about that team, Crimi and Jef, I usually walk away from the computer, because if I don't, then this type of comment is written and it gets read the wrong way as everyone is way toooo emotional about BS out there.

NHF man, just had to say my piece on this.

Cheers.

 2 years ago 

I completely love that you took the time to make this comment, because you didn't have to and the time and the appreciation is love. I saw the mention above and didn't even bother responding to it because my words are in publicly searchable discords and on the blockchain and the statement is absurdist. However, you too took it at face value, so on that front I agree that I'll have to continue communicating to make sure people speaking louder than me don't result in speaking for me. You can follow the full discussion from here.

So what you said was 'misinterpreted'.

Easy for anyone to do when temperatures are hotter than hell.

I responded as soon as I read it and no matter how anyone reads what you say, you say it as you see it and you can only be responsible for what you say not what others understand.

PS. Just came back to the computer, had to step away after that comment.

Cheers.

 2 years ago 

It's fair. He has the belief that I feel a certain way, and I have agreed below that through that lens my words earlier weren't clear enough. I've marked a small edit simply because everyone is heated (please be careful not to suggest he is emotional, though!) but still am happily convinced that the things I say publicly are the "source" and anyone can get out there and research them. I'm having a bit of a day myself, lol.

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Please don't make false statements. Where did crimosnclad say she would vote yes to retain large votes? I guarantee you she has never said that as she is the exact opposite and works very hard to represent every single person on this blockchain big or small

Right here," I can't tell you what you want to hear to try to play all sides and sway the voice of the people as a Robin Hood figure- which is that without a doubt I will vote no. _I can't tell you that I will without a doubt vote yes, to try to "keep some big votes"* because the entity that many believe is slipping dollar bills in my pocket quite frankly knows nothing about my existence other than that I and my partner are great witnesses and heavily contribute to the security of the Steem blockchain (and maybe not even that ¯(ツ)/¯ "

You might want to follow your own advice. She doesnt assure us either way...and may do so? She didn't say that wouldn't be the case.

It's the 9th paragraph on her first reply on this post- https://steemit.com/hardfork/@dreemsteem/now-you-can-see-the-numbers#@crimsonclad/pttfbj

 2 years ago 

I actually agree with you on this one simply by dint of the fact that you've been hoping to find a quote that illustrates what you believe I think versus what I do. Rereading where I present why I will not vote no OR yes to satisfy ANYONE by juxtaposing two opposing statements, I can see where someone who believes that I am "Pro EIP" could read this in the way you have. Since I've clearly stated I am not and the context of the comment and all other stances I've ever taken support that, I'll happily edit this statement to be a little bit more clear so that those who are having trouble following are more readily able to understand.

I can't tell you what you want to hear to try to play all sides and sway the voice of the people as a Robin Hood figure- which is that without a doubt I will vote no. I can't tell you that I will without a doubt vote yes, even [<-edit] to try to "keep some big votes"...[<-edit] because the entity that many believe is slipping dollar bills in my pocket quite frankly knows nothing about my existence other than that I and my partner are great witnesses and heavily contribute to the security of the Steem blockchain (and maybe not even that ¯(ツ)/¯ )

I don't promise to vote either way to make anyone happy, and frankly this is more an acknowledgement that no matter what I do for my own beliefs people will be pissed. 😂 I then go on to say that that's all moot because the testnet has been broken for a week and if I can't run this code prior then it's a default no anyways.

You've been clear by saying you " are for it, but not now..."

As for trying to understand your point, other than above, you have gone back and forth so often in your comments, it's impossible to hold you down to a specific.

The problem is that your lengthy comments are filled with more filler than substance, which opens you up to misunderstandings, because of the fluff AND the higher likelyhood of ill wording or type-o's.

In the end, I'm not huge Steemit supporter and really don't care, but do like to be informed and call out inconsistencies where I see them.

There has been no shortage of inconsistencies on this topic across the board, including from you.

Except in @dreemsteem's message, which is backed up better than anyone's statement for these upgrades.

I think it's time to listen to the little guy, because the 'fixes' from the big guys from the last 18 month's have not worked and it's pretty clear to me, just using common sense, this won't either.

I was coming back to Steemit after leaving for 14 month's, but that probably won't happen now. Now multiply my choice by an exponential factor. Redfish are the majority and the bottom line is, this won't benefit us at all...Hurt the majority and your platform will only be left with the minority.

That math doesn't equal success.

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I know what you said. LOL but i still have hope. call me idealistic, but damnit!!! LOL i don't want my home to burn.

since you've left -ned is no longer at the helm.

Lol, I think it's time for you to check out a few vacation Villa's...

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it would be so nice to not have to.

And THATS exactly how I feel 😊 this is my home and you guys make my days. I belive in hope and I know that together we can change things... With heart.. Not power.
First step to MAKE a change is to BE The change!
Do things differently... Opposite of what we know doesnt work ❤️

I hope that they will change. I fear that money is the thing that speaks the loudest :(

Its enogh of that in The world and if this place becomes like that... Then I still have a home... @thealliace and you guys that has become my family and changed my life. Look at how much we have grown together and are a tight community.... Without you guys I might loose hope but you give hope.
That is a force that cant be broken if we Stay United. 🤗❤️🤗

I really hope this turn out for the best for us all and that one voice is worth listning to and can make a difference❤️

I love You Leah soo much 😘 you are one of The most amazing warm hearted persons I ever known, and brings so much smiles and joy to sooo many People.... ME INCLUDED!
You make my life so much richer in more ways than you realize 🤗😘😍💞

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hehehehe you know how much i love these images!!!

we are beyond steemit :) we are true friends outside the chain

for that - i'll always be grateful!

i love you Sara

YES WE ARE ❤️
True friends and nothing can break us apart.
We are forever connected and Im blessed having you in my life. I looove that. 💞

I like you have The same spirit, always belived in good and never loose The hope... Optimist and seing a Light in all darkness. I still have hope but it breaks my heart to se The People I love hurtig and loose hope... I wish I could HUG YOU guys and ease things.
Just know... You NEVER ALONE! ❤️

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never alone <3

not with my Sass right here! hehehehehe

True dat 😉❤️ I am right behind you always my sweet Leah 😘 and beside you and wherever you want me to be... Lol

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I've been busy powering up. Sadly I'm now making the decision to go the other way. Power down time. Ho hum.

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