RE: Do we forget about those who buy STEEM in the market? we want to kill small and large investors with the flag war spreading like a wind on Steemit now.
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I actually went through a few of your post to check whether you are getting flagged and I may have found none on those posts.
I also clicked on the highlighted post you included up there and read, sorry I haven't really checked on that, I guess I got conditioned that most of your posts are purposed to challenge the creativity of the community to create stories out of your images.
If you are getting flagged I'm sorry to hear that. It's good that you have asked those people who are flagging you (only the ones flagging you pls) why. They may or may not answer though.
Am not a fan of that flag, it kind'a have that "whip that slave" appeal. Unfortunately, everything is allowed here and it seems that the ones using the flags are either hitting what they call a "circle" or balancing the rewards. I wonder why the rewards need to be balanced? Is the reward pool almost empty? Do we have a standard of how much a reward one may have? If we do now, since when?
For as long as I remember, when I first came here I've been told by the person who invited me and the many others who were already here that it's up to people whether they would cast an up on your vote or not and since it's up to the voters how much of a %age of a vote they want to cast on your post, I thought it was alright to get as much as you can perhaps, many people are happy with you or your post or you so they decided to cast more on you. I don't think it's your fault that you earned as much up as you do. After all, you can only cast as much as you want for yourself, the only reason your post would earn much is because some casted their votes for you - perhaps not necessarily your post and most probably it's because you reciprocate while others act with some entitlement mentality - going around with attitudes that kind'a exude that "my post is so dern great I deserve to get to trending" (rolling eyes).
If we are to want to appeal to the masses then perhaps we should live and let live. Too much flagging is going to (surely) kill the system. It would even scare any newbie to join, nowadays. That flag has been there three years ago and was heavily used but it was used to combat abuse. It wasn't used to lower any author's rewards. This has a very negative appeal to it and a screaming negativity on its purpose alone, Odd that it has that function nowadays but I also question the amount of rewards an author may have. Are we allowed a certain amount per day now? I don't remember reading anything like that but I haven't been around much so I may have missed it. Since when did we have a standard of that?
I understand that it would pain an investor getting flagged whilst some like I did earned our SPs from curating and posting and it's alright (am being flagged, too but they seem to be weird accounts probably just tripping or so bored of their lives - idk) ..if those who did not even buy a single cent of Steem are allowed to earn that, why aren't the investors?
Just keep going, remember, this, too, shall pass ;).
Hang on in there! Sending you the warmest cyber hugs!
Hi @englishtchrivy
After all, you and I have seen previous downvote wars between users here that largely hurt themselves.
But after HF21 it is used by many users here, for Steem.Inc. has provided 2 free downvote per day. So now everyone has the right to decide for themselves whether to give a downvote even if the post is of good quality, but believes that the merit is too large so it can go back to the rewards pool.
If you get an upvote from a bidbot now that you haven't paid for yourself, others may vote your post down. The same thing can happen when others, me or, for example, slowwalker give you a good upvote on your post will actually all be penalized for being downvote
Yes, I get the downvote, the largest from a single person was over $ 7.
Today came this downvote
Your post "Somewhere Close to The German Alps"received many red flags / downvote. Fortunately, they didn't have enough power to tune you down to ruin your reward. But after all, there were 11 red flags that want to hurt you, it may be that I or others are giving you an upvote. For me, this is totally sick when there are 11 red flags on you on your post.
Imagine small accounts that get massive red flags from other small accounts.
This does not look good for our upcoming social platform
But those who give downvote and big downvoter now, don't seem to think that they give good upvotes to people they like and earn a lot on one post THIS IS DOUBLE MORAL
You have to differ between the small downvotes which aren't worth anything and just used for trolling, and the bigger ones used to balance rewards.
The former don't do anything except giving a small sting to the ego, and I see them as a part of normalizing them, so they're not even bad. There's dislikes on youtube, do those keep off content creators?
The big ones are used to stop people from different forms of self voting. Like bid bots, trading is a form of this too. If you upvote others just to get their vote, it's nothing but a covered up self vote. Slowwalker does this and nothing else, so people exchanging votes with him get targeted.
Hi @pharesim
Of course you want to defend what is happening because it has become part of your job now that you have worked hard to promote the downvote.
I'm worried you must also see everything that happens next to what you explain. There are users who have no idea why the red flags come from, do not help if it is from large or small accounts. It gets completely wrong when they have done nothing wrong.
They earn a little money on their post and are lucky that a bidbot has given them upvote without paying that bidbot. Later, there is a downvote due to the fact that they got a vote from bidbot and lost their reward. You can't believe I shouldn't be worried
You have to understand that red flags are also seen as punishments when they have done no wrong, so I want to highlight that someone has a different agenda than what is meant by downvote and flagging
Do people feel punished for dislikes on youtube, and stop creating videos because of them? Stop being overdramatic.
Hi again @pharesim
you for collecting it as you please
but you did not comment bidbot
I wrote a post going into details. People will get used to downvotes being as normal as upvotes. It's difficult to switch the mindset about them after being flags for so long, but that was a mistake that is being corrected. Takes time.
thanks @pharesim,
it was nice to hear that it will be fixed 👍
I understand where you're coming from. I agree that it woud indeed create much damage to smaller innocent account. I'm baffled that smooth flagged you a worth of $7 but he must have his reasons. You may ask him why, you know, he would probably give you a why if he sees your question - course, he won't if he wont but having the impression I have of smooth he'd probably do.
As for my flags, I can't tell whether those are haters' flags or they just don't like my post. I haven't bumped into them till that posts so they may just be dislikers and I don't mind that because I understand that my posts is not for everyone as I also have my own preferrences and reasons on casting ups plus would I only accept upvotes but I would probably also feel bad if I know that I put my heart out on my posts, polished it yada, yada, yada exerted much effort on it and then it got heavily flagged after all am human, too but what I can't control - I let go most of the time otherwise it would just consume me and make me react negatively on whoever flagged my post and as much as possible I don't really want to take things personally here because it's just the net. Though I really take kindness seriously - that is at least worth thinking it's real and really, some extend offline, this is just a friendly advice, pls watch out there are those who can be very manipulative and pretend to be kind, I have encountered a few and there are more authentic kindness I have bumped into here so I'd rather focus on that.
Once, I tried tracking a patron flagger who seem to stopped visiting me nowadays but in the end, I gave up on it because what's the point - the flagger is even anonymous and hiding in his account name - which I find very cowardly and backstabbing, I do appreciate those who flag and explain why on earth they did that but then only if they're not arrogant! I've seen a few arrogant newbies whom I find also very imposing, obstinate and self - righteous am not a fan of that. As for revenge flagging I find it a waste of energy and it would only encourage the continuing flag some also get tired of flagging you specially if you just give them a cold shoulder but then it's just me and my case is different from yours.
I understand and would also find it a double standard to downvote a certain post and cast a post one favors and earn much curation rewards on that - indeed, if I would look at it your way - it does look like that although I question whether the "possible curation rewards" really have manifested after the last fork! I did curate more often than not when I couldn't post before the autumn break and I wonder whether I did earn more than just posting.
I also think that if they consistently upvote the same authors they would eventually find themself sucked in what is called circle jerking - although unconsciously and not in a conniving way - or maybe even in a conniving way. It's hard to tell and judge.
I am not a fan of the flag and still am not but I find it important to also try to look at things the way others do because they may know something I don't. I just wish we could just find a different approach to combat the abuse - including circle jerking if it does harm the system and if we do - may it be positive and amiable after all people really tend to not forget how you make them feel, imho, it's very important to not hurt anyone's feelings and some could really be sensitive here. In my experience here, it's sad to loose a reader or a supporter more so - offend them. This is the net and yet, it has the same IRL social issues.
If there's one thing I learned after reading the comment thread on this - it's really hard to see and understand things the way others see and understand thems and in my opinion - it's like watching a double tipped pentelpen scream about the points they're trying to make, at each other, finding them both having a point and finding it hard to make those points meet elsewhere. For that same reason, I'd stick to live and let live and hope that somehow they find a way to listen to each other after all, there maybe something both of them and me included and the many others who read this comment thread, they could find as the really effective solution/s. As of now - it's hard to tell.
As for some who are proven to have abused the system, I won't necessarily have to no longer cast my upvote on them nor have a prejudice against those people and no one has the right to question whom I cast my upvotes - that part, I can control and it's up to me and I intend to use it wisely - according to my own definition of it and people will just have to respect that as I do so with the way they cast their ups and downs.
Chereo! Enjoy autumn!
thank you @englishtchrivy for sharing your thoughts with me on this
I understand what they say when they explain this to me,
but unfortunately there are also those who use downvote here now with a completely different agenda.
When I logged out I earlier, I was still wondering why you got heavily flagged, you don't strike me as a person who'd abuse the system, in fact, I've watched you helped and lifted the many here, even those whose posts looked like they didn't exert much effort on making. It made me wonder whether you earned more than 50 or 100 on that post that got heavily flagged. If that's the case and it just so happen that I looked at the trending earlier and that time I saw low quality posts and they don't seem to be heavily flagged. I understand that the flag seems necessary now since there are huge accounts that seem to be proving consistently greedy and hurting the system but I still think people are more important that just saving the system. What good would a system be if there'd be no longer a many for it to serve.
I think I can't blame the many for posting low quality posts after the .. hf20 or probably even before that, I don't remember which fork has encouraged the abuse of the system anymore but I remember posts got shorter that time and the many lost their appetite to write long and valuable ones having seen that pattern of abuse. I hope the flagging on your posts stops specially if it's very unreasonable and if it already did cheers to that! Imho, you don't deserve that specially if you aren't guilty of abusing the system. If it hasn't I just hope that whoever flags your post explains why they flagged your posts and why that heavy a flagging?
Take care and don't let this get into you - be kind to your heart. I can't express how much I feel sorry for you but I also don't think it would do much to console your heaving heart. I've had such a phase back then and I was no longer a newbie, I had no choice but to toughen up and stay open to what's going on, I've witness the system changed so many times, things eventually stopped in the end, not entirely but surely - like everything they'd come to pass. I send wishes to the universe to help you find the strenght to endure this and carry on.
Hi @englishtchrivy
Thank you for your warm and kind words about me.
After reading your comment I just had to look at the stars in the night sky and I felt that energy coming, thank you
I get downvote because they think I give too much upvote to some people like @slowwalker who get good upvote
If they had had dirty posts they would not have received my vote.
I've been following @slowwalker for a long time and like his posts. Just as I like your posts and give you upvote.
So it has become so now that they are trying to decide on who I give my upvotes to and the reason is that I get the upvotes back
I got an answer from @smooth here is the link
https://steemit.com/downvote/@xpilar/re-pz8x1i
here is the post where he gave me a powerful downvote
https://steemit.com/art/@xpilar/4tpzq5-the-image-is-made-of-own-imagination-and-thoughts
The reward pool is limited and shared between all users. When someone assigns a reward to himself or his friends, that part isn't available for others. There needs to be a balancing to be able to really reward the best content instead of the biggest wallets.
Downvotes have been a part of steem from the beginning mainly to achieve that balance, it's the reason that's given for them in the whitepaper. They have been mainly used for serious abuse like plagiarism or spamming because they cost something for the one giving them, so there were only a few people willing to do this in the most serious cases. That's why we got a free budget now - to have them be used for their original purpose, the balancing and to get closer to the goal of giving higher rewards to better content.
hi @pharesim, thanks for expanding on that, that clarifies it all. I did not know that the original purpose of flagging was actually to balance the reward.
I actually read your reply earlier but I sat on it to let it sink in and try to understand and see things this way for obviously - I must be missing something or not seeing things the way others do and clearly, for I don't really know many things. It's not an excuse it's purely ignorance (shys).
I understand the good intent you mentioned and I now understand more than before. Obviously, I've also been sucked in to that circle and since there were only a few of those, personally speaking, I thought I should be grateful specially to those who do not just cast their votes on my posts but read and leave comments on them. For that same reason, I felt obliged and that it is but righteous to return the ups I got (but of course, again this is my personal view on things plus I really am not a fan of making someone feel bad no matter how annoying they could be), unconscious of the fact that you just mentioned that I was actually also ensuring rewards for myself this way (yes, I took a peek on this comment thread haha!).
Having written that and having seen the consistency that some of those who can be considered patrons(whom some of the people here tagged as members of a circle) to my posts which is seemingly sucked into that "circle jerking" and still some of them are really curating and even constantly helping newbies, too, Imho, it's also possible that they have this mentality but I do have the benefit of the doubt that some may be already committing abuse whether consciously or unconsciously. Whether they are indeed abusing the system or not, I think they're old enough to be responsible for themselves.
Understanding that the flag is used to balance rewards to ensure that others get them, too, more so - to enable great contents to get to trending I found myself asking a few questions and I hope you don't mind if I ask away.
1> Since some are already regulating the said "circle jerks" why don't we just put it out blatantly that circle jerking is not allowed? ( although this would sound so imposing) Perhaps, then it would be clear that it's not allowed otherwise - it is allowed and if it's allowed then it's inevitable for others to see and find that we're having a double standard on things when they're getting heavily flagged cause some flags seem to just show that they don't really like the post but other than that it has no effect on the rewards - that one is quite easy to accept.
2> If we want to balance the reward this way to get the great contents to trending, is it also possible to just cast an up to those "considerably great contents" than spend one's voting power on flagging? ... although, I admit that no matter how I think about it, I guess, it may sound that I still don't get this -
How can a flag give the reward it took from the post it flagged to a considerably great post? How does that work? Does the reward go back to the reward pool?
I really can't imagine because I really don't know how it works. I have to admit that I didn't read much on this (shy).
If it does go back to the reward pool, how is it then ensured that it would be given to a considerably great posts?
Is it really inevitable to use the flag to get to do this and would flagging really help make us attractive to the masses? Is it not possible to solve things purely positively - without using the flag. Can't we just cast our votes to those who really make great contents? After all, it's one of the goals behind it.
Imho that flag really has a negative appeal on it, the name alone, more so if it takes out rewards( therefore the drama and the vendetta plague). Haven't we used the flag a long time ago? Did it really work? Afaik, the circle jerks existed from the start, it's one cancer in the society even IRL and some people must have seen that and mimicked what they're doing. If it's not working would it ever? Is it really mending things or actually causing a bigger damage?
I just wonder if it so happens that the considerably great contents really get to trending then perhaps the circle jerks would then be more exposed/isolated, surely, conniving or not some of those also have morals and shame they would stop at least if they have a conscience and follow by example - curate and cast their votes on considerably great posts.
3> Lastly, what defines a considerably great post? Are we sticking to - "it gives value"?
If the very goal was to make the considerably great post get to trending from the start - why were bid bots allowed - specially those that don't cast ups like OCD does - so far I really like how OCD casts its vote.
If I may say this - what I saw worked till apparently it was said to have been abused was "the ned votes" back then there was a list of authors who got ned's up till it was said to have been abused. That time, I remember that it motivated the recipients to really fashion interesting and value filled posts. I also saw that it actually birthed to many more recipients and stopped when it was abused by idkwho. Imho that one really worked and had a positive approached unfortunately, I don't know exactly what went wrong whether it was misused by some people? Perhaps, the tendency to abuse things really should be watched so it won't spoil the good things still existing here.
Having mentioned it, I also think that if we all support only what seem to be great posts - specially that it seems that they should be perfectly written - grammar and spelling wise aside from having value - Imho, it would create another imbalance on the system - it would made it look like mediocre (if I may use that) posts could possibly just be ignored (plus I abhor the idea of boosting narcissism to some who can really pull off a great post but this one is just my personal taste).
It seemed that I already wrote you a book and am beginning to feel like am blabbing but if I don't ask I would never get a better understanding so thanks in advance!
Happy to have set off an extensive thinking process. I'll gladly try to answer those questions as good as I can.
who should say that? It is up to the community to enforce behaviour they want to see. If the majority doesn't care it will effectively be allowed. So we first have to work on creating the consciousness that it's bad for the growth of the platform.
yes, it goes back to the pool and is distributed between all other posts. The greatest content only comes up when all the miserable stuff is pushed down.
that's very subjective. Something that draws eyes from the outside, makes people feel like they want to come back and see more of that, and makes good creators feel like this is a platform for the likes of them.
I wrote a quite long post on the topic today, it you're interested in more food for your thoughts.
thank you !
hmmm.. that's all I could say for now hahah
I think I have to sit and think again hahaha
Will definitely take a look at it!