AskSteem: What do you think of the EIP so far?
How's everyone doing? I've been really busy lately and the little time I've had I've put into OCD and following active accounts from the whitelist manually with @anomadsoul and double-checking on some things. Feels like the HF happened just yesterday in a way but at the same time so much has happened.
From my perspective, we decided to first go after voting rings with @ocdb right off the gate with the HF and "free downvotes" (obviously the free part was a scam cause it had a lot of consequences with it :D), first one was a clean and accomplished mission, second one not so much as the whale in question started retaliating to any of the accounts associated with ocdb. Of course this was to be expected but I was hoping they wouldn't go as hard on the curators of @ocd and mainly target us casting the downvotes instead, but you know how creative people can get when they're out for blood and their reign of self-voting is coming to an end. Oh well after some time we stopped the downvotes there too as it seemed the account in question was starting to "curate".
Then we finally felt it was time to go fully manual with ocdb, this has always been one of our goals and we created ocdb with the mitigation of abuse and SP being in bid botters hands who were not planning on doing much good with it then or possibly in the future. With that decision we decided to help a few other Steemians out who had been fighting off bid vote countering as it goes against the EIP and undermines it. Of course this came with a lot of drama as well, bid bot owners crying cause more SP had risen against them now and they couldn't continue to make that easy and unfair profits and ROI so they retaliated as much as they could but overall it seems many of them are switching towards curation either cause they have to cause most customers aware of the changes stopped buying bids or because of the downvotes on their purchased votes cause that's the only way we can stop them from buying more in the future. If you're still not aware how buying votes from bid bots is unfair in all the levels to honest curation I can give you a brief explanation in the comments but don't wanna make this post too long, but feel free to ask away.
Overall I am liking the effects of the EIP. I understand many minnows and dolphins are not so happy to see their own vote lose value to the curve tax which is there mostly for spammy/farmy abuse on comments and posts all over the platform but I am hoping that the incentivized curation is making up for that. That's why we at ocd&b are trying our best to find as many authors as possible along with our whitelist to follow and curate on a regular basis, we understand the problems with big accounts maximizing their ROI by front-running popular authors, we understand the problems with many accounts losing out not just due to the 50/50 change and the SPS but also because of the curve and that's why we're trying our best to mainly curate accounts that don't get those circlejerk upvotes.
We are off to a great start I believe, even though the price does not reflect it, it's too dependent on BTC still as it's main trading pair and not so easy access to fiat for those new to the scene. I also understand that the curve has hurt comment rewarding and automatically brought down engagement due to it in some cases but I am hopeful that we will be able to figure out solutions to it in one way or another. I am still looking forward to communities and SMT's after it hopefully some time soon, until then all we can do is curate, distribute and onboard. Our chain and front-ends still have so much to offer that other centralized platforms don't. Getting the rewards and economics of it all right is not an easy task and not many are even close to perfecting it nor will they ever be able to.
I'm having a little bit of jet lag lately and I may fall asleep after writing this post but as always I'll get back to reading/replying to your comments the next time.
AskSteem: What do you think of #newsteem so far?
Remember that every downvote is an upvote to everyone else. ;)
It's been good so far, the free flags help and higher curation makes voting more worthwhile.
Hey, haven't seen you around in some time. I remember you were looking forward to the HF. I like the effects of higher CR too, people don't feel as pressured to post anymore due to it I think, many have even stopped self-voting or shitposting due to it and giving the EIP a try. :)
Yea, life got busy and this place was getting less pleasant so took some time out to see how the dust settled.
My main concern is the lack new blood and new energy. The monthly user numbers have continued to slowly decline.
I am hoping now that steemit Inc has got some of their costs under control we will see more of a push to develop the user experience and onboarding, but we shall see what they do next.
Either way, if will be fun to watch. Steem must be one of the best social experiments ever undertaken :)
Yeah would be nice with some marketing from the SPS soon but for onboarding I'm sure we can all play our part there too. OCD is at least putting a lot of focus onto that now so let's see how that goes, we surely have the accounts for it right now and the voting power to cover the newcomers. :)
Yeah it sure is and I still think this is just the beginning, time just feels like it moves really slow for us that use it constantly.
It's actually brought me back to Steem. With curation receiving a bigger reward I'm planning on buying a nice amount of Steem to power up.
It also limits the bot abuse which is nice. Overall, I think it's a step in the right direction. Manual curation should be encouraged as much as possible.
I'm hoping people will prefer it once the autovote front-running starts hitting those phases where more and more accounts keep front-running eachother making it less profitable, some will switch it up to other authors until the same thing happens there too so hopefully the edge will go to those curating manually and it's just 10 votes per day max, it can't be that hard to find that few good posts per day if you try a little. :)
Why is that vote front-running allowed? It never really made sense to me why max curation rewards increase toward the 30 min age mark. Was always curious why top curation rewards didn't go to the earliest to vote you know?
They do, but people use bots like steemauto to cast votes for them as early as possible on popular authors so they'll get highest ROI, then someone notices account x has started voting 3 seconds before them so they put their timer another 3 sec before them, then before you know it they're voting so early that the curation penalty is wrecking their rewards no matter the votes being cast after theirs so they have to either find another author to try that on or it may also affect the other curators thinking "too many autovotes already, not gonna curate". It's kind of a self-regulating aspect but since curation was not incentivized for over 2 years not a lot of evolution happened to it, so let's see what happens now. I still think finding something from a fresh author that's great and voting first on it with a significant vote and then promoting that post to your followers through resteems or in other ways will get you the most CR in the future. Hoping to see that happen sometime soon, cause that'll mean we'll have content discovery fixed.
I see. I understand how the auto vote thing works. But, what I meant though was why isn't the max reward given early and then have it decrease? Rather than the reward increasing to max at the 30 min mark? Never made much sense to me. Early bird gets the worms ya know?
Cause then there would be 100 bot accounts voting on the first block when a post is posted. The penalty was shortened from 30mins to 5mins now, so at 2.5mins you face a 50% curation penalty but depending on the votes that follow voting at 2.5mins may give u bigger returns than if you wait for 4mins and only take a 20% penalty hit but many others front-run you instead thus lower your ROI. :D
Oh gotcha! I didn't know the penalty was shortened. Awesome!
The curation rewards penalty period is the most interesting part of the whole Steem economy! It is the only period that has two simple yet conflicting algos, it also has a dynamic maximal point and hence cannot be maximised for every post. I'd like to see the concept extended to the full 7 days :-)
Anyway, on a more immediate note, one factor that hasn't been considered is that different tribes have different parameters for this curation-penalty period, so some voters are voting specifically for a tribe using their staked tribe tokens, but obviously their votes still appear on the Steem blockchain. So there is now a plethora of different voting algos out there.
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Trending got a lot cleaner in short order. Voting rings and farmers are being tackled as we speak. There is a larger number of curators on the lookout for new material to upvote than ever. So far, it's looking mostly very good. The price doesn't reflect that but how could it after such a short period of time.
By the way, front running popular authors is no longer a very good maximization strategy. That's because so many accounts are doing. Getting good rewards that way is a difficult task. Going for the second tier of authors is a much better strategy because there is less competition. But isn't spreading stake further to good authors what we want?
I think a lot of people here unfortunately don't give a shit what "we" want or what is best for Steem as long as it maximizes their ROI, but yeah, as long as the EIP helps turn some more accounts and stake into honest curation whether it's due to laziness of not posting anymore for the little extra profit or just curating manually or following other accounts instead of having to switch the autovotes often to maximize returns, it's already having a great effect and I can't wait to see how SMT's will aid the whole ecosystem and incentives.
Sure but my point is that now the common interest is much better in line with how curation rewards are maximized than before.
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Liking it a lot other than the drop-off on comments which I don't think is just the direct rewards. With 50/50 curation, some are likely setting more autos and spending less time on Steem.
Yeah it's probably that too, they'll be back though, was hoping that the new "gold rush" of getting curators to your post would have upped the quality of those authors seeking it which would at the same time have gotten them more consumers actually enjoying reading the posts and interacting on them but I would also understand how yet another new bottom does kind of make you want to take a break from it all for a while.
Maybe we could use an SPS to fund a more linear comment reward curve. ;)
use SPS to buy steem on the market, lol
Genius, let's pump and dump Steem through the inner market to wreck traders on the main exchanges then use the profits to buy more Steem until we pass Bitcoin in marketcap.
:)
This has come up a lot in comments, the problem is though that it would be the new point of abuse at a mass scale.
Now I'm receiving nice curation rewards. I have improved my voting power and go through 'new' feed to find good authors to curate before some whale cast a vote on them. Overall the experience is great except for the price!
New steem seems good. A lot of curation but not that good curation as I want to.
The only thing that is bothering me is those circle jerkers who are still not gonna be penalised (totally) for their actions and they will walk out of this with full pockets as they walked out of Old Steem by circlejerking, autovoting themselves and bidboting everything...
Fuck that. We should be having moral hard forks, not blockchain hard forks because people will try to gain the system as long as they can walk away from it and say they will change.
We are still kids, but growing...
bullshit on the free downvote it sucks when you get one for no good reason.
sure does but it's a price we have to pay cause we can't go on with no downvotes ever cause that sure wasn't working and people were just leeching off any value they could like vultures.
It could still be done better. Or a way to flag a miss used flag and if that person gets enough reports they lose their ability to flag because its freakin dumb and honestly if it gets bad enough ill take my money elsewhere.
I admit we need better ways to counter abusive use of downvotes such as obvious retaliation.
Yep your information totally correct. If you Didn't Analysis about steemit and bot bid system you cant gain any upvote from it. When you bid at any upvote bot must see bot policy last round invesment, last round roi, minimum ROI, max ROI etc🙂
The non-linear change annoyed me. However, I discovered a solution that doesn't involve a hardfork or manipulation.
I just bought 33% more Steem or so and now my vote is the same or more than before.
Even though we have 50/50 split, I can see more and more people following high paid author and upvoting at around 4-5 minutes to maximize the curation rewards. In the future, it would be better if we can remove this restriction (I am not sure if it is feasible).
It isn't actually the best maximization technique, because usually big names attract lots of auto votes on that 4-5, thus actually undermining each other's curation rewards. The best strategy is to find quality content from yet to be established authors, because there is a real chance now that a quality post will get a large vote now that lots of stake is doing curation.
This of course is excellent news for new users.
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I'm enjoying steem.way more these days, since EIP, I mean. It just feels like a better place - Sure, there's issues still, but generally it's a better experience. I think curating for curangel is helping with this feel for me as I'm really enjoying that.
Anyway, thanks for all you do, the effort you put in and the way you put the community above personal gain.
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Im pretty happy so far.
The frustrations i had in oldsteem over abuse, dishonest voting and distrust in the community action are mostly being dealt with.
When you see the platform achieve something positive how can you not be satisfied.
Financially the EIP has been good to me. Double the curation, double the author rewards and with folks jumping finally on the abuse fighting wagon it gave me something to do and provided a venue where i can actually affect change. Not a lot, but much more then before.
You mentioned circlejerks and retaliatory voting.
If we can collectively manage those things i think that the loss in author rewards can be mitigated.
It all depends on how willing we are to act.
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It's great for the inner circle, and by that I mean all Steemains who don't have their head under a brick (some still do), but the perception of other bloggers (Reddit, Medium) needs to change.
We need to get the message out to get people to come back + invest. The big picture is the token price needs to increase. That's what we all want.
I am getting used to it and the reality is that my focus continues to be accumulating Steem Power so it is working with the changes. My only dissapointment is not being able to reward comments on my posts anymore given the uncertainties of our upvote value on a standalone basis. However, I think that can change in the future as more ways to incentivize engagement appear.
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The new steem seems to be working well as far as I am concerned.
Using bidbots does seem unfair to the newer Steemians. It’s good to see posts paid within reason of the content and not an inflated amount because of bidbots.
You are a little late for the meetup.
I was there but everyone was speaking finnish so I left early without saying anything. :(
Hähää, we actually spoke English because of Taraz! 😝
so proud of our aussiefinn!
He understands too much Finnish, can't talk shit about him when he is present.
Yeah, he just pretends he doesn't know to spy on everyone 👀
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That's a bit disappointing that some might see engagement as only worthwhile if it's being rewarded. How genuine is it if that's your only reason for it? Some of my best conversations on here have earnt me nothing. Engagement still rewards you in that it brings eyes to your work. It's networking.
This reminds me, there's someone I haven't talked to for a while who never fails to entertain.
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Yeah of course it's not the only reason but I'm sure it has some impact even maybe subconsciously. :P
so far I enjoy newsteem. I do not follow trending or any big drama. But my posts are being noticed by some curation groups so I believe that for small accounts growing will be easier in newsteem. I would still like to get more comments but maybe I will get them in the future.
TLDR
Nice lake picture.
I'm glad you got me back to Steem. The 50/50 is a great incentive to reward more content creators. The challenge within that change is perhaps adapting to it, but that's all about mindset. Shouldn't be a problem to most, it takes time.
I haven't checked Trending out that much (or at all), but @celestal pointed out it was going in the right direction. I take his words on that.
The changes are a great way to empower the solid initiatives as things should be going less about 100% focussed ROI. It might be that people are still in that mindset, but I give it a few months until that changes. On the other hand, while there is a lot of great content out there, it will be harder for the content creators to get a steady flow of rewards for their work. Which should mean they need to create original and high-quality content. I hope curators will take that into account as well.
I think it sucks. I think one free downvote a day would have been plenty.
Like I said before I think this is helping to destroy the platform.
https://www.steemleo.com/leo/@mysearchisover/15023-17698-0-17898-sold-out-smart-trading-strength-no-losses-investment-steemit-death-s-s-rhsc-20-635
Overall this seems like a pretty good post that I would normally upvote 100% but I might end up downvoting if I am ever able since you want to bully me with unfair downvotes. :(