RE: Sour Pressure - Inktober days 9 and 11
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In art, we might produce "feelings" and "emotions" that stir the viewer in a certain way to "listen" and "look" differently than merely warning someone or shocking them.
Yes absolutely! It's the "vegetables are good for you, eat them" statement. Command = bad, realizing on your own = good. There are people who never grow out of this. Opposing commands for the sake of opposing. Because someone else has given them straight facts or commands but not thinking about it further.
When art is published, put on walls, shows, represented, it is talked about, people seeing it perhaps think about why the art is made and realize things on their own and that usually has a better impact than someone just telling you how things are. Then again people can also just claim that they didn't understand the art or the art was ugly and that they didn't like it.
I think we are about to write a theory of communicative art if we go deeper into this!
😀 Indeed. It's easy to go really deep when you love the topic. Get carried away. I am so glad you are just as enthusiastic about this as I am! And I appreciate your long replies so much.
I can write a whole piece on just this statement. People do not think, in my opinion, enough anymore. There is so much focus on (i) replying and (ii) appearance, that thinking becomes laborious and people often want to avoid it at all costs. I think this goes back to our previous comments on people not wanting to feel discomfort etc. But I can go on about this for too long!
True, but I watched something again today on Barthe's essay The death of the author and how this symbolizes the birth of the reader. So not understanding something speaks more about the reader than the author. But meaning, even the absence of meaning, lies with the reader.
The pleasure is all mine! If we had more time on our hands, we could go even deeper. Also, if I had more time to read up on all the theories in art, my own understanding of things would have been even better. But time is valuable and so finite.
I absolutely agree. Too much focus on answering, not listening and thinking. Although some people do expect people to say at least something, which is also in some cases a bit weird. But in a face to face conversation it's vital to know when to listen quietly, when to listen actively (I call saying um, oh, yes, no -words when someone is talking, active listening, although doing that too much is really annoying), when a comment is needed and does that comment need to have any solution to a problem or not. It's tricky but, as you said, if only people would listen more not thinking about what they are going to answer. And face to face conversation is also when an artist is talking with their art. Art / spectator conversation. "Panic! What am I going to say about this art?!"
But when talking about talking in the internet, it also may be that at this informative age, as we now know what someone on the other side of the earth, an some old schoolmate or previous neighbor, and hundreds of other people, say out loud, people who we never meet, only read their comments somewhere, it gives a wider understanding of all the people and about their opinions, and as they are not the people we have chosen to be in our precious bubble, their opinion, (or in this case their way of not thinking about things enough) comes right to our face and we are appalled about the fact and think that people do not think.
At least I am, almost every other day, I read something for instance from Twitter and I think to myself: "Wow, what is wrong with people, if they would just think about this, even a little bit, they would realize stuff and how stupid that sounds / is." And then I crawl back to my bubble that I've made comfy and cozy for me.
Fortunately there are (lots and lots, I believe and hope) like minded people with whom I can have interesting conversations with. Like here, in Hive. Now. :)
Yeah. I know. Me too it seems.
That is absolutely true! Art is so much more than just the painting in the wall, just the performance on the street or an dance show in the TV. It is given to the spectator and the spectator has a huge role in the conversation with the art. So not understanding it may mean that the spectator just doesn't even think. About anything. Because there's no wrong way to comprehend art. Art just is, the artist may or may not have something to say, lets go of the art at some point and from there on, it's the readers or spectators turn.
Oh no, I'm starting to feel like I haven't prepared for our conversation at all, I've just answered how I feel and what I remember reading. See, I felt a pressure to answer correctly so that my answer makes me more important than the fact that I could just listen and think. Oh no. :) We've come to a full circle.
So true, and as you brilliantly linked this to the speech between "art" and "artist" I think you have hit on something interesting here. When should the artist and viewer of an artwork "listen" to said artwork and when should they "reply"? Albeit that we place the artwork on a pedestal, I think that art has something to say beyond that of what the artist intended, but now I wonder how much and when we should respond to that artwork and when we should merely listen.
This will be the hallmark of our society. And who can blame us? I think back to something about the Ancient Greek schooling system I read. I am not 100% if (i) the information is accurate, and (ii) if I remember correctly, so do not quote me on this: the ancient's spent their formation years studying rhetoric and logic as the way in which you (i) present yourself/your argument and (ii) how you argued for said argument was more important than understanding mathematics. Or, understanding math and physics were important only after you mastered dialectics and the art of talking, presenting yourself or your argument. What I am leading to: we as the modern scientific society in some sense turned this around. We emphasize physics and math and neglect how we present these things. This obviously leads to schools also neglecting dialectics and how we use language and present arguments. And with everyone being able to voice an opinion on social media platforms today, emphasis is again on what you say rather than how you say it. Or something like that. Maybe I am making no sense at all!
And here we are again talking about the art and the role of the spectator. I think it fits perfectly in this reply. I will "synthesize" my first and second paragraphs into this third paragraph to respond to this line you presented. Maybe we as a society have neglected our vocabulary to respond to art or to play that role essential role in the conversation. I have ranted in a post on this idea, and I always talk to others about this, but the schools (in South Africa, as this is where I am located) focus so much on "parroting" work rather than understanding work that we are producing people who can remember facts detached from understanding. Or simply put, people are mindless fact machines rather than people characterized by conscious thinking, understanding, and wisdom. I know that this is hovering on wishful thinking, but I see it in my field (philosophy at university). People are struggling to think for themselves and to think period. Linking this back to art: I think people do not have the necessary vocab to engage with art as there is an essential piece of the puzzle missing.
No, please no preparation! It is all about feeling and responding to those feelings. I just like reading and my "to read" list is so long. There are various books on art and how we perceive the world that I want to read. So it was more a declaration from my side than a prescription haha. Sorry for taking so long to reply, I was not in the right headspace the weekend.
I've read this several times and every time I've been trying to answer to this but have been feeling little under the weather lately and can't seem to keep my thoughts together. Fall flu and sore throat. Nothing major though and getting better now.
Perhaps I'll come back to this some day when my brain isn't so foggy.
But I stumbled upon a tweet and I think that sums up part of our conversation really well so I just have to share it here.
https://twitter.com/illustravi_/status/1457532438574354432
Oh, no, I am so sorry to hear. Yes, when you feel under the weather it is not nice to concentrate. Please take your time, and if we never return to it then it is an offering to the gods of art!
And that tweet is really interesting and though provoking. I agree! Thank you so much for sharing.