There is no HIVE community
This is something that I have been repeating over and over lately, and I wanted to take the chance to make a post about it and see where you all stand on this issue.
I want to start by showing you something that came to my attention, about how 'TOXIC' our community is.
I watched as much of this video as I could handle. Certainly I am not in disagreement that we have toxic users here - I get downvotes on all my posts from @anddumbcunts as well as a @gangstalking comment on every one of my posts.
I remember the legendary haejin flag wars, and I have chatted with BernieSanders in discord.
This technology is not designed for User Experience. It is however designed with freedom and ownership in mind, as @theycallmedan has been posting about.
My direct response for cryptofinally, this is not really a place to get upvotes. Its a place to own your own content and have it be immutable. Notice that when you are talking about your content and the comments, they are all there, on hive, they are not hard to find, even 6 months later, and they won't be hard to find after a year or two more.
There is no HIVE community.
There is just a bunch of random people doing their own things. Applications can build here and use HIVE in such a way that upvotes and downvotes don't matter (customjson). You can post here and that content is yours. No one else can edit it. They can leave comments, nice - mean - or in between - but they can never get you banned!
You can have your reputation lowered, or raised, and it may not be a reflection of how good of a person you really are.
But no one can stop someone with 'skin in the game' from using HIVE.
This is not a community, it is a technology stack with a lot of people around the world behind it.
There are some communities on HIVE
Within HIVE of course, some communities have developed. We have photography, we have science, we have devs, we have a lot of finance and crypto people, we have television and movies - All within their own little bubbles.
Anyone can create a community on hive and control which users can interact there. They can mute, blacklist or silence any users they choose - in their community, built on HIVE.
Toxic people are generally not apart of a community, they tend to be loaners, but that is not always the case as some groups can and do have toxic members. Surely internet users the world over exist on a spectrum that ranges from delightful to toxic, and its not always the case that these attributes are objective, many things (notoriously "quality") are subjective.
Hive is a Technology Stack
Sure we have built a number of interfaces like hive.blog and peakd.com and leofinance.io and neoxian.city and splintertalk.io and 1up.zone and cinetv.blog and others - HIVE is really a protocol. We can cast 'posts', 'customjsons', or 'wallet transactions' into a magical void and have other people recognize that stuff for what it is!
Different applications can be created to filter, select or direct the actions of accounts on HIVE. There are many possibilities and tons of potential ideas to build - we are a blockchain like others - but better than them!
Staked Hive gives RC which is a rechargeable pool of 'tx fees' so that's how we get away with free tx. (stake to be free). We do fast by having a community selected consortium of block producers (we call them witnesses) - so we are fast and free - and that's FREE SPEECH and FREE BEER.
We don't all agree, we don't all get along and we are definitely not a community. We are a bunch of skin in the game builders in charge of our own destinies - free from the control of centralized overlords.
We are definitely not just a place to 'get votes'. If 'your votes' are ever taken away, you can remember that they weren't 'your votes'. They are a consensus mechanism to distribute inflation to new OWNERS of this platform, and you are paid your due in 7 days - before that they certainly aren't yours.
Any one can cast their vote up or down at any time before the 7 day window closes, and give any post or comment a bit of inflation and future ownership into this platform, or subtract from the total.
Social media on layer 1 has its downsides. Layer 2(s) are constantly being built. Things have started to move fast recently, but buidlers gonna buidl!
Electronic-terrorism, voice to skull and neuro monitoring on Hive and Steem. You can ignore this, but your going to wish you didnt soon. This is happening whether you believe it or not. https://ecency.com/fyrstikken/@fairandbalanced/i-am-the-only-motherfucker-on-the-internet-pointing-to-a-direct-source-for-voice-to-skull-electronic-terrorism
I would tend to agree with your assessment of the community on Hive. The tech stack itself is neutral. I believe the community has taken on a very broad meaning in crypto as of late. My idea is you have a group of diehards that are tinkering away on the tech, improving it, jostling for positions in the DPOS ranks, forced to work together and make decisions on future upgrades. And then you have the broader niche communities, many built and mingling among one another yet remain independent. The "Hive community" is a blanket statement that can sue some confusion. I've never been the best at naming things; I'll just stick to layer zero.
I agree with your theories behind distribution, keep writing keep pushing dan! @ecosaint boost!
Thank you, @ecoinstant, for breaking it down and @theycallmedan for all the good work you do. If the good did not outweigh the bad, I would not keep coming back and sticking with Hive, through thick and thin, for over 4 years, now :)
View or trade
BEER.Hey @ecoinstant, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @pixresteemer for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.maybe you are expecting too much in the word "community".
Lol.. When you have to announce to everyone why you act out of emotion.
OR, there IS a Hive community, but it’s a somewhat dysfunctional community. 😄
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
@ecoinstant Do you know where/how the original beef developed between cryptofinally and the 2 accounts @innerhive & @xxxxxxxxxx?
I just thinks its really hilarious that people think the amount shown on their posts (before 7 days) is "THEIR" rewards..
I think @enforcer48 knows 😅
Lol nope.
It had something to do with the girl being less chaste than desired.
She had a reputation building and the unnamed one took exception with being represented by that type of reputation.
She wasn't the first to go down like that.
To be frank, she doesn’t need any “community”. She does pretty well for herself.
This further demonstrate how the general social aspects of layer 1 need to be on layer 2 to deter blanket statements and conflicts like this.
A shift away from the hive.blog interface, for one 👍
This is why we can't have nice things.
Okay I didn't watch her whole hour long rant, but I got to: she was getting downvoted by Bernie accounts.
Okay, does that suck? Yes. But that isn't "the whole community?" I'm really confused how Bernie being Bernie means that the whole community/ecosystem is toxic. There are literally thousands of people here just doing their thing.
Just do your thing!!!
For 99%+ of people, "doing their thing" includes looking away when someone is being beaten because that is how the reward system is designed (not saying it was done on purpose but that is what we have in Oct 2021). Speaking up for a stranger is rare enough on its own (because it paints target on your back even in a fair environment). Should someone be stubborn enough to do it on Hive, the "downvote countering" is a really expensive hobby due to the huge discrepancy in upvote and downvote treatment.
The current environment is toxic. It is not because of a few toxic people in it. That happens everywhere. It is because the Hive rulebook keeps them safe.
Is Hive a community? I do not care. The environment remains toxic whatever your POV on community existence is. Semantics cannot keep Titanic afloat.
I would love to contribute by proposing a fix to make upvotes and downvotes more equal in treatment. Should I post it at Medium? You know, it is easier to find cryptofinally's 2020 Hive posts than fresh posts of mine. You won't see them outside your Following feed. You won't be notified if I tag you. However, all that is just a marginal frontend techniciality because Hive is a true cheap speech solution (for those who read blocks rather than apps).
I would read that medium article! If there is a way to make a healthier environment in such a world where toxicity exists, I am interested (although not really 'in charge' of anything).
And it is probably cliche - you can set up your own front end to read your content or set your own blacklist (like not blacklisting negative rep users) - but such an app does not exist.
dang it I'm multi accounting....
@ecosaint
If I was her, rather than trying to be a martyr, she should have talked privately to people like @theycallmedan , @taskmaster4450 (and many others people who are MUCH LARGER stakeholders than this xxxx.. Bernie, InnerHive, horrible person.) and to appeal to them and see if they could help counteract the effects of the horrible person, which I would like to think that they would have taken corrective action, and been the cooler heads mediating this whole scenario.
Yea, I think that the actual whales who truly support hive, should look for sharks like this guy, and do what they can to downvote these type of peoples accounts into oblivion, just as they do to the folks who they attempt to scare away from our blockchain.
This scenario is one of those sad situations, where the person is acting within their rights (voting maliciously) yet they really should be put out of our misery.
Go take a look at all of that persons profile, and come back here and tell me what of value has he produced and put on this blockchain? and then compare/contrast that with the damage that he's done.
Quite damaging to marketing, but it is the reality of the technology stack as we have it!
I think you are right and more solutions are possible.
Having that fud video about HIVE.BLOG being toxic is a good thing because there is no such thing as bad publicity! There were also plenty of FUD videos about SHIBA, and cooincedentally they all pop up right before it moons usually. Haters gonna hate, I just laugh and take it with a grain of salt. And no I won't even watch that video, but I believe your review on it. haha
Whatever anyone says about any coin, you must know that coin. So that you do not lose by coming in someone's talk. A good trader always understands the root of everything and has technical knowledge with strategy, only then he takes profit. That's why we have to keep going in and out of any coin with complete information without coming into the talk of anyone.
Yeah I always analyze coins with TA. It is simple, draw a few limes here and there. I like to see where the coin has been, and where it's going. If it gets rejected it usually goes back to where it's been.
Here's Evergrow, not much history to go by, but we can plainly see the main levels to look out for.
And our favorite below, SHIBA!
As we can see, unless it continues straight up, it pumped so hard and fast that there are only a few distinct levels of interest here to! Pretty funny looking chart, looks like dog ear pattern, lol!
I agree. Publicity like that only encourages people to research more about the topics. The curiosity that FUD videos gives fuels the whole "Do Your Own Research" movement and before you know it, another one joins the hive lol
No lies about it .
You're right.
Interesting thoughts, I tend to disagree a lot and I believe she earned her downvotes fair and square.
Why, would, you, not used night mode? That text is too bright xE
I am trying out night mode now
Its easier on the eyes in the evening!
This is such a beautiful way to put it.
BTW I read somewhere about the potential to have a counter downvote that can only be used on posts that have been downvoted (and only act to counter the effect of the downvoted amount). I think it was presented by @theycallmedan I think it is a great idea.
!PIZZA !LUV
<><
@ecoinstant, you've been given LUV from @vimukthi.
Check the LUV in your H-E wallet. (1/1)
@freezepeach does this. They counter malicious downvotes.
Thank you! I have been doing it myself but some of the group thinkers being spoken of clearly dont like it so this is helpful.
PIZZA Holders sent $PIZZA tips in this post's comments:
@vimukthi(5/10) tipped @ecoinstant (x1)
Learn more at https://hive.pizza.
good critical point friend, certainly that is what it is about, even here we are free ...
I have logged in after many months. I get a clear update about Hive from this post. Thank you.
Cryptocurrency communities don't exist,there's just a passion for a change to our current financial system by it's users.
LeoFinance or Splintertalk can mute users or even prevent them from earning any rewards with a click of a button.
On the HIVE layer you can mute other users if you don't like them, but you can't stop them from posting.
I think this passion for change is powerful, and we must work to understand the technologies we are using - especially if we expect to change the world using them.
Dang thought this was happening right within the last week or so, I was getting hook lined and sinkered in there until I saw that the video was last year...
got me excited for another bout of watching a good fight.
Oh well, yeah it can get toxic here, in fact it can get toxic anywhere and everywhere.
But I think there are communities. Little hidey holes for groups congregating and hoping that we don't tread some big foot in the pond and get whacked down by the tail in retaliation.
There are many communities, and they are fluid, they are voluntary, and they can make their own rules.
So true. I tend to bounce around shaking the trunks here and there.
Hopefully not stirring a hornets nest and get bit in the arse. In fact I hope I don't step on a big toe by accident. Then again not sure if it will ever pass that I will belong to a community since I like the bounce.
Lots of good communities but not much of a Hive community as a whole mght be a better way to say it. So many amazing people on here, but a handful of people have all the power.
That's why Smts.
Gov = reward token will never work for everyone. But community token can work in their community.
I know we burn influencers on hive. There were already many there. Also TV channels. We burn them all :D
It is a bit funny. Look at hive as an alpha version. It can become something cool or not.
In general, it is impossible to make everyone happy on general blogging with a subjective reward mechanic.
It is nothing pay per click/view/purchase. It is some stakeholder like or not. It it will be never objective.
Perfect for trolls.
Perfect for haters.
Perfect for opinion attacks.
So Smts are needed. There must be so cheap "influencers and communities" can escape the general reward mechanic.
See it as distribution time. At some point we will not longer use hive for rewarding. It will maybe take some more years, but the time will come.
Until you take the DV seriously... until you take user experience seriously... your going to continue to have people rage quit like this.
It’s messy. Some of these people could be high value accounts where if trust had been compounded rather than eroded... they might have been small whales eventually.
We don’t know how deep the pockets on the blockchain are. We do know how deep the pockets are off the blockchain. We can’t entice these high value people with statements like, “Hive is a technology stack” that can’t retain its users and hasn’t evolved as a community because currently its this mindset that he or she who can tolerate toxicity longest wins...
I’m sorry but for every person leaving Hive you have a person selling the token that needs to be bought out above $1. Hives price will never go above one $1 until the “die hards” here realize that it’s not just about the “shiny tech” it’s also about HOW we human and how we keep and stay TOGETHER.
Layer 1 influences Layer 0 just like Layer 0 influences Layer 1. What we are seeing is that HOW we human matters AND each is a derivative of each aspect.
It is simple thinking to think that we have arrived and we have the cookie everyone wants! NO! We need to read the feedback and listen carefully to the user experience WHILE we innovate.
Every person leaving the blockchain is a voice out there detracting people away from our blockchain. Marketing will not get easier while Hive maintains unfriendly policies and practices backedUP by the base layer.
Healthy community can’t happen while larger accounts can own smaller ones financially with the DV. This isn’t freedom or ownership this is a recipe for centralization and group think.
No matter how you slice it... A toxic environment isn’t this mythical magical place that’s winning. Not being able to retain high value is a social environment that’s dying right before your very eyes and that isn’t a social environment that makes people want to invite their friends, family, or famous to.
HOW we human matters and there isn’t any shame in rethinking things from the groundUP!
Hive should be a top 10 coin... but until we can get our minds around the importance of scaling user-friendly solutions... we will continue to miss bull market after bull market deluding ourselves that all we got to do is BUIDL it and they will come.
What we are doing on Hive is a once in a lifetime opportunity to reimagine and innovate new and BETTER ways to human... and the sooner we realize this and start doing that as a community... the better!
[Rant Over]
Its not that I disagree, I want to go to the moon too. But trying to convince som people to 'act better' or 'be on their best behavior' hasn't worked very well either.
We need to invite people like this to layer two communities, where user experience can be worked on as a priority.
Everything that happens is a result of a derivative. Layer 0 influences what happens on Layer 1 and everything that happens on Layer 2 is directly a result of what happens on Layer 1.
This is about clearly understanding how value flows and where it is derived from. If we implement Layer 1 in ways that mishandle Layer 0... why in the world would we confidently think that BUIDLing out Layer 2 on top of Layer 1 is F&)@$?! going to solve the problems that Layer 1 caused in the first place.
Fundamentally that’s building on top of sand and most users (who can easily compare things to other social solutions current and future) will pound sand when they look the blockchain fully in the face.
This is all about scale and derivatives...
You can’t scale something that’s not working... and thinking you can “normalize” how things aren’t working and then suddenly think that they will work at Layer 2?
It’s deluded.
Right now we need to stop with the group think and get real.
Look at the problems for what they are and ACTUALLY innovate the solutions we need to scale healthy and user friendly community.
If we don’t do this...
We will miss yet another bull run.
If that happens I would say that this is a failure to launch because now you have a situation where people look at the Bitcoin they exchanged for hope in Hive and wonder what would have happened if they just held onto the Bitcoin.
It’s especially painful when these people realize that they traded away that Bitcoin for an abusive social experience and spent a year struggling with minds that weren’t forward thinking enough.
If we can’t retain High Value accounts... soon we won’t have enough bright brains to innovate in the first place.
Then it’s...
[Game Over]
I understand your concerns but I'm not sure how to I interpret them.
If we try to make a happy and friendly social experience on layer 1 - what would you recommend? How do you propose to convince people to stop being assholes?
Why don't we just kill the hive.blog dream and say HIVE is a place to build your own community (like leofinance.io)?
If the tech allows me to say anything, some percentage of people are going to say mean things. If we have consensus mechanisms like up and down voting, some amount of people are going to say mean things while they use these mechanisms.
Its not that I don't want a solution, I just don't see what it could be without limiting freedom.
I am fully aware that one or more assholes, major stake assholes, could be a type of attack against this tech becoming popular.
But whats the layer 1 solution? On layer one wars can be fought, layer 2 can wall their gardens up however they want.
If you would like to read more about what I think we could try/test in terms of a DV that doesn’t communicate abuse, trend Hive Think, and make it possible for larger accounts to “own” smaller accounts, here’s a link to my most recent post(s).
At the very bottom of the post you will find 2 links that will take you to a way that the DV could be implemented and how our mindsets need to shift and evolve along with the tech if we are to win. 👇
https://ecency.com/automaticwin/@adventureready/adventure-ready-milestone-marker-oct
These are huge roadblocks but with solving big problems comes the unlocking of big value. There is benefit in talking about this and working on potential solutions at Layer 1.
If we have to wall off each other from each other in walled gardens... that’s not a winning social environment where it’s safe to invite people to.
I think we can do better.
I think we absolutely MUST do better.
wil.metcalfe is 100% correct. These users you speak of need to realize Hive doesnt have any tech that cant be taken and built differently, and there will be and probably are projects being built right now. Splinterlands and other dapps dont need the social media experience to do well, but the social media/blogging aspect of Hive is a big reason why many people came and come here. It's also something people don't need Hive for, even to have it on a blockchain for ownership or to have a monetized upvote system. This group think is centralization.
See I got attacked for just replying to you @wil.metcalfe
Didn't do anything to these people. Hive Power is centralized.
That’s the thing… proof of group think and centralization. That’s the problem with the DV and it’s current unfriendly implementation. We need a DV but we need a constructive and intelligent DV. This isn’t an environment where freedom of thought can flourish so long as the DV is undeveloped. But hey… the way I see it. Social Capital, trust, and truth matter far far more than the Financial Capital these people are attempting to corner. It’s all good and I’m going to speak truth and continue to build trust. With every DV they target me with… they are taking their social capital and transferring it to me. My people… my audience will know what’s what. It’s funny that these people actually think they are doing good with this abusive and backwards behaviour… but hey! Whatever right! I think knowing is far more valuable than what they are attempting to strip away. But hey! That’s just me. Perhaps I think differently about this sort of thing… time will tell who was actually right about this… I’m confident in my stance. I’m the one on solid ground. The fact that they are reacting the way that they are… pretty much shows how weak and vulnerable their position actually is. 🤷♂️
In not inviting anyone to hive anymore as long as this is happening.
There you go. You have arrived at the same realization as I have… this coming from someone that was (before) top 5 for promoting Hive on Twitter for months and months… spent up to 5 hours per. day promoting Hive for free…
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1387823537809879042?s=21
but then I found out more about what I was attempting to talkUP and it bothered me so much I finally had to admit it to myself…
I used to say,
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1387928492776378370?s=21
I can no longer say,
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1389192889700290568?s=21
And I’m seriously wondering if this applies to Hive anymore…
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1422436722747482119?s=21
Hive has a loooong loooong way to go and the sooner this is realized and action taken… the sooner Hive’s Social Capital will improve and so to its price in the wider markets.
Until then… there’s nothing pointing to a solid foundation for investors and entrepreneurs. We can’t think we have arrived and stop up our ears and not listen anymore… I won’t accept this mentality until Hive is a Top 10 coin.
And if we get stuck here at the basics… we’ll that’s pretty pathetic!
So no… I’m no longer a buyer. I’m a seller. I never thought I would say that because this is what I have been saying for the last 4 years…
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1393550154486087683?s=21
If the UPvote is a super power… what is the Down vote when used abusively I wonder?
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1389330685236715520?s=21
So… somethings changed. Hive has always been the same… only I didn’t realize it. I’m waiting to see if the wonderful people of Hive are as wonderful as they say they are on Twitter.
I want to promote Hive… but I want to promote a Hive that is growing rather than contracting… so long as this DV nonsense continues… I (and many others on and off the blockchain) will/won’t have the confidence (built on trust) to continue to BUIDL on the Hive Blockchain.
Prove me wrong Hive…
It’s time to begin innovating again. We can’t ship or sell if we don’t rethink the basics… HOW the DV is implemented MATTERS.
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1393342485850517505?s=21
Maybe they should try to get these things fixed by actually building the tech the way they want and not build tech that allows people to upvote themselves. That's the only thing I can think of I did "wrong" after reading yours and other posts I've searched for. Not once did anyone actually try to speak to me but after seeing how they replied to you and your audience that dared had a question, I dont see that being any better. Classic tech world shit, some cliche thinks they got money so they think they're the Kings of the blockchain. That never helps the community.
You got it. If this is a taboo thing (self vote to rank a comment above the layers of bot comments on a post) then it’s a simple matter to program it into the base layer so that this isn’t a function. If new people come here and “accidentally” do said taboo thing… the humans patrolling the halls with their DV’s are going to pretty much blow them out immediately. We need a friendly Hive that grants true ownership to those poweringUP their Hive. What we have right now is disfunction spread by human hostility. Functional innovation happens with code at the base layer. This is a power play. If you don’t believe me… check out this self vote of a post… I Comment Rank (order comments based on value.) and that’s something completely different… but yeah! Why the double standard right? Makes you wonder… a lot of things! 👇
https://ecency.com/hive-104601/@livinguktaiwan/invitation-to-enter-the-hi-from-hive-contest
This isn’t forward thinking and this isn’t scalable… this also isn’t marketable.
This is human difuctation imposed on legitimate Hive Owners via an abusive subjective and not even reasonable or equal DV.
If this is something that absolutely NEEDS to be on the blockchain… do it at the base layer.
Anything else is extremely detrimental to freedom and ownership on this blockchain. It’s shortsighted and based on human subjectivity.
Until this stops… this isn’t a place I can invite anyone to.
And certainly not a place I can BUIDL a business or invest MY money.
These people are acting like they can tell other owners what they can and can’t do with their own account (and capital). How’s this going to scale?
It just isn’t. It’s time to stop with the excuses as to why distinction persists as it does… it’s time to innovate new and better ways to human.
If we don’t…
We are going to miss the next bull run.
Plain and simple.
Do I want that to happen?
Heck no!
I wouldn’t have invested my time and capital and brought my reputation and business’s to Hive (4 years and counting) if I didn’t believe in this blockchain or it’s people…
But, for me (and many others), what’s happening right now…
Well it’s the last straw.
I hope that Hive is listening… because I am watching carefully to see what happens next over the next 13 Weeks as I power down.
And I have a feeling that I’m not the only person (on and off the blockchain) that’s watching…
I've never had any of these people actually try to reach out. I've never done anything to them. From what I'm reading they dont actually talk to people about their feelings they just passive aggressively attack them with downvotes. This is one of the most unprofessional things I've ever seen. These are suppose to be witnesses? I even stopped upvoting myself and they still attack me. Even my posts that I never upvoted myself. I mainly just did it to my comments due to the downvote spam un the first place. Maybe fix that and so many people wouldnt in the first place.
You said it. But here’s what I’m seeing… disfunction leads to disfunction which leads to disfunction. This isn’t vision and innovation at all. This is small minds imposing themselves on other people. They don’t rule the blockchain no matter how much Hive they have powered UP… that would be like your neighbour building a mansion (powering up locally) on a corner lot and because he has more at stake he gets to tell you what to do with your mom and pop shop and your small but modest home next door. This logic is out to lunch.
These people need to respect the other owners living out their lives on the Hive Blockchain. No one knows how deep each other’s pockets are but let me tell you… continue to negatively compound trust like this… and pretty soon their won’t be any chance that those people will reach into their pockets to invest in Hive.
None of this makes rational sense…
And if that’s the actual real world case… you have got to ask why they would power trip like this…
I think they are profiting from manipulating the price of Hive UP and down…
How else can you explain the perpetuation of this amount of short sightedness?
If any of them pretend to support a "free market" or liberty or whatever, they clearly do not. Unless its calls for violence or someone trying to prey on people or worse kids, then this shit isn't abuse of the platform. Plagiarism? Yeah I can see that being a downvote. The on written 50/50 quoted and content rule I've seen is pretty ok. Those are things you cant really program out but you can change upvote values and things like that. So even if I stop doing what they dislike I still get attacked? And it seems to be that way for a lot of other people. This keeps coming up when I search the chain.
Yup. It’s becoming very common… and it’s hurting our brandability. We are going to become know for our zero out culture and the abuse of downvote spam. People don’t remember good stuff nearly as much as they remember bad experiences… this is extremely bad for marketability of our blockchain and I’m not going to stand by and say nothing while it happens. I’m a Hive owner with the best of them.
Downvote Spam 👇
It almost seems as dumb to me as the account that used to downvote anyone who had their downvote power at 100%
https://steemkr.com/hive-175254/@crypto.piotr/enough-is-enough-let-s-all-step-back-and-figure-out-what-can-be-done-to-stop-losing-steem-users
Almost as dumb but that was just more annoying than harmful to the community. At least Hivewatchers and Spaminator (i think theyre the same person or people) will give you a notification, and they are actually looking for something that is actually an issue. They may give a bot alert, but its its still helpful.
I keep getting spam downvote attacked for I'm not even sure now. It has to be more than just self upvoting. Are these people racists and think I'm not white or a religion they dont like? Cos I'm super light skinned and not religious or anti religious lol. This isnt just attacking me. Its attacking my audience that upvotes me. It negates all their HP and thoughts as well. But we exist. I am used to people bullying me for existing Tbh. It's just sad and a disappointment about the hive community. I had bad respect for one of these people. Nothing I've seen would had made me think they're pro spam downvotes or not communicating a simple issue. At this point I dont even know what I've done wrong since they're just randomly attacking me and apparently many others.
It’s a DV feeding frenzy and none of it makes sense. It’s like a bad trip at a party… we might have to wait for sense to return to this social environment… but damn is the head ache and mess going to SUCK to cleanUP.
Don’t worry… it’s not like you took candy from a baby… you just “took it” from someone who owns the candy shop… or at least they think they do! 😆
In these situations a social environment of abuse is being perpetuated and it’s pretty hard not to take that personal when they short circuit your value relationship with your audience.
All of a sudden… who are you writing for? It’s as if these people are hovering over your shoulder watching your every move… these people aren’t your audience… and yet there they are… supported by systemic abuse inherent in the system.
No matter how you slice it… just like the UPvote communicates… so to does the DV.
No of this is right and it is only the writing on the metaphorical wall.
I’m sorry that you have had this sort of experience… but I hope that this informs you going forward…
If your anything like me… a freedom loving soul with a heart to help people win…
I think this has still been a very valuable experience… I only hope that it hasn’t hit you too hard and been too painful.
A social environment shouldn’t require this much thick skin or scare tissue to just be and do.
No matter what happens… know that I accept you and none of that is based on skin Color.
We all stand under the same rising Sun. ☀️
I ain't mad. Just disappointed. This will all end up being public if Hive ever goes mainstream. From searching for posts about it, its looks like theres more and more people speaking up. I can sell off my Hive and just leave enough to daily post then put it all into a community token. Eventually those womt be only backed by Hive. I'll be able to sell WeedCash for Eth straight up eventually. I can focus on Archon or Ash. Actifit is still strong in Steem and about to be on its own Tbh. I literally keep asking for a reason but nah. No one actually wants to communicate so I assume there just being spiteful and childish ans extremely unprofessional, which if you cant take your stake in an asset or business seriously then you shouldnt hodl it. These people would be removed from a board of directors for acting this way. People can't post NFT art anymore? People cant do dailies if their gameplay anymore? Not even sure anymore. These people just wanna troll I guess. I like that gangstalker guy bot spamming everyone more at this point. I didnt do anything to these people. It doesnt really seem like anyone they attack do. They havent said anything to me to have replied in some fashion they would dislike.
So it’s all nonsense and it will come to public light… this sort of energy has to leave before good things can happen… and if they don’t it condenses down into a mess that no one in their right mind would want to sell.
I’m glad that your being positive about this. Their are so many positive things happening here… if things become bad enough these projects can pick up and leave and many may eventually do that if it becomes blatantly clear. Maybe that’s why they are attempting to use fear tactics to shut people up? I think that could be one of the reasons… but the best way to promote anything to do with Hive is going to be the honest and true way. There are no shortcuts and you can’t do good business with bad players… people will eventually wiseUP to this… I’m just hoping we don’t have to skip another bull run for people to realize this…
Tbh the rises in Hive I think have been about Splinterlands and other Dapp growth. Not the basic social media aspect. Those dapps wont necessarily cause rises in Hive once Dapp assets can be traded directly for other crypto. Like I can do with Wax already. For some if the big ones it might be more profitable to leave Hive as their base chain / build their own. Theyd most likely still have assets in it like Splinterlands does on Steem. It's not like these people are reading this to actually see I'm ok with not self voting if that's such a huge deal to them or figure out what offends them so much they attack me. But I'm used that that irl. Online its nothing.
Lol. Is like no one allowed to speak to you?! Or someone they dont like? How dare anyone not agree with them yet still tries to do what they are enforcing.
It’s like highschool all over again. And if this isn’t group think and a bully clique… I don’t know what it is. 🙃
If I find out they're part of the Dapp teams I invest in, I'm selling those assets and warning others not to invest since these actions show me I can trust these people to act professional. I was just trying to get my friend on here who has been asking me where to invest, messaged him today to cancel his Hive bids.
This is happening everywhere… but in secret. Most people back away slowly and quietly in this sort of social environment. Not me… I’m an advocate for true freedom and I believed, UP until recently, that I was among a progressive crypto community that was actively looking for ways to innovate new and better ways to human… so I’m giving them a chance… but so far people keep on fumbling the ball and showing me their true values…
I’m disappointed but there’s still time… 13 weeks and 3 days to be precise.
Passive agressive fascism I guess.... I dont spam, I dont plag. I stopped self upvoting since thats the only thing I can figure out I might be doing "wrong". Friends and strangers are telling me the same thing. You aren' the only Hive based project leaving because of it. Unless we pool millions together we are powerless. If any mainstream outlets actually start talking about Hive, this is going to come up to them Im sure. That will then also be talked about and bad publicity is not always good publicity. People aren't going to leave Twitter or Youtube where they can just not post hate or tits and make more money and get a way bigger audience instead of much less while trying not to upset a whale. At least Twitter and Youtube alert me if I made a mistake. I dont go around talking violence or showing my tits so they've never brought that up lol.
Like, you dont need Hive to utilize Actifit. Most big games will bridge over to Eth or Wax or something.
That’s just it. You hit the nail on the head. The longer the people here who CAN change this nonsense take to get serious… the longer they fumble the ball… the more eventual it becomes that there WILL be another blockchain solution that over takes us.
It’s only ignorance or arrogance (ego) or both (which is even worse!) that keeps us from learning from history. All one needs to do is look back (at any technological leap) to realize that there were MANY enterprises that attempted to crack/solve a problem… but when all was said and done… there were only a few that ever made it.
It’s foolish to throw away 1st mover advantage like this.
The work of innovation… it’s NOT done and the sooner people wakeUP and realize this the sooner they will listen to the users and actually make the changes that need to be made.
The longer this takes… the more unlikely we are to be the raving success we could be.
And what a crying shame that would be…
Oreos of blockchain social media will push the Hydrox (did I spell that right) out of the way.
See! This is a common story! Why do we have to repeat the recipe for failure like a bunch of ignoramus?! If it’s going to happen… then ok! But I’m going to speak my peace even if they don’t like to hear it. My heart is and always has been 100% here for Hive and it’s community… let’s hope they see that and start to take constructive action. Let’s see how many bright brains are actually listening and rolling up their sleeves. I’m very interested to see what happens next. And the way I see it… when you understand the fundamentals of why this matters… we don’t have anything to loose by #SpeakingUP. Isn’t that what freedom centric people naturally do?
Remember when a mass of people left steem due to perceived possible blockchain tyranny or centralization? Now it's happening here and people will care again and do. Apparently you don't have personal freedom of your Hive or HP anymore. Or ever did...
So this could very much be an incident of near history repeating itself all over again. It’s a shame to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again… and if that’s the case we only have one option… and that is to take a close look at the leadership and where they are leading us and why they are doing or allowing this.
John C. Maxwell says it best. 👇
I heard him do this presentation live. I’ll never forget that day. IMPACTFUL!
Damn those 13 week powerdowns too. One of the situations where I wanted it shortened to see you go.
Just because I’m powering down doesn’t mean I’m going anywhere. I’m putting my Hive to work where it will do some good.
Besides that… I have never (in 4 years) had a conversation with you until recently… why would I care so much about your thoughts on my coming or going all of a sudden?
Seems a little off if you ask me.
You don’t know me from a hole in the ground… why such a strong opinion about me?
Very odd… lol! 😆
Known you for short period of time and now I know I won't miss you. But good job taking notes on toning down those wall of texts. But if you do stick around, great, keep on #ryzing
At this point… I have to wonder what platform you are actually bringing value too. To be happy when an entrepreneur and investor powers down? Really? My decision to take MY business’s off the blockchain and my investment elsewhere is an example of Hive’s failure to stay relevant and innovative. I have a lot to say about that and if I want to I can speak out on and off the blockchain about this? Everyone is free to have a voice… this place is supposed to champion free speech… what does it say when someone like me makes the call and closes down a business on the blockchain? What does it say when closed minds try to hush someone? It says that things are fragile and that there might even be things under wraps that certain people don’t want light on.
What blockchain are you working for anyways? I’m working for Hive… and I want to give it a chance…
At this point this “text wall” isn’t for you… it’s for the truth seekers who will follow the breadcrumbs. Later will this be an archive of what we are proud of? Or will it be the shame and laughing stock of the wider crypto community?
Based on what you and your gang of bullies are doing… I have my sincere concerns.
This is why I do and say the things I do and say…
And ultimately… it’s not what’s said… it’s what isn’t said… and it’s about what isn’t done.
It's only a cry for free speech when you get downvoted caused by a loss of potential $. When you were talking to frugal, did you happen to see them downvoting livinguktaiwan first and then claim victim when it was their downvotes that poked the nest? I'm sure you'll buy any snake oil as long as it has a branding of bringing the human and positivity.
Shameless Plugging
I prefer purging fakes and other posers which gives more value to the chain that promoting content thieves to which I don't see in your priorities at all. You see downvotes as a mechanism to silence? I see it as a way to make the legit creator outside the platform feel at ease knowing their thieves get what's due.
Do you want these fakes to have a voice and earn from their theft?
I don’t care about a couple piddly dollars worth in abusive DV’ing. What I care about is that this behaviour undermines the very foundation we, as Hive Owners, are attempting to build upon.
It might surprise you… but not all of us think about financial capital as if it comes 1st.
Entrepreneurs like me are looking at sustainability that can stand the test of time. We are looking 20 years out…
And if the blockchain in its current structure can not retain its social capital… how on gods green earth do you think it’s going to retain business dev and investor confidence.
No sir.
You have me all wrong… expand you mindset.
Hives well-being and future prospects are are risk on right now…
Fixing the DV with further thought and development at the base layer is what will risk off for all of Hive’s owners… and after 4 years… we all deserve a Hive that is innovative and forward thinking.
This sort of mindset is short term and not nearly expansive enough.
All that investor mindset bullocks you spout doesn't mount to anything if people know their content which is the human part on the blockchain can't get some level of respect. Why the hell do you think Blurt isn't even near Hive when you complaining about downvotes, they removed that function and gave people all the voice they have to yell for and what happens to the place? Just a bunch of self voting pricks and cppy paste posts from the Internet.
You want to invest in that type of freedom? There's your answer. No downvotes there.
While you cry for social engagement as a sign of health, the blockchain still moves in $ knowing that value is being put in parts where people don't need to get paid to have an opinion. See Splinterlands.
You think getting paid to blog was a bright idea? It's all paid to have an opinion and hope someone tips you for a job well done or thanks for sharing an opinion. And upvote is an opinion that content should get rewarded and visibility, the same as a downvoted in reverse.
You missed the point. (Could that be because you are listening to respond rather than understand?) Did I ever say get rid of the DV? No. I. Did. Not. I said it needed to be re-thought and intelligently re-innovated. [period]
Suggest to reinnovate how to upvote while you're at it because it's more problematic to see stolen and spam content get rewarded. You want to regulate downvotes like how it should be used? Regulate upvotes too because those can equally be as toxic as downvotes.
I don't tell people what to do with their damn upvotes or downvotes, I'm fine seeing that choice be done freely by them on their accounts. And then take in whatever consequences that come with those actions.
I think your being a bit difficult here. We can’t win the game with defence alone… right now we can’t move past the problems the DV is causing… it’s becoming more and more clear by the day. We don’t want to wait until the music stops to finally sitUP and see the problems for what they are. Stake is stake. If it’s harmful use of stake innovate it at the base layer. Getting a bunch of people to walk the halls does little to actually address the real issues at the root. It, in effect, only makes them worse and also signals to the spammers, scammers, etc weakness. The way to solve a problem is to scale it in code on the blockchain… not throw fallible and limited humans at it. We innovate our way out of the problems we have. We come from a position of true strength. That’s the only way to win. Look… we are all here on the ground floor doing something that’s never been done before… thousands of years of human history have lead us select few to this pin point in time. We can’t think that innovating the future is going to be solved by repeating the mistakes of the archaic past. We are better than that. We have to be better than that! I want to win… don’t you?
Freedom to choose how one uses their downvotes or upvotes. Even gangstalking enjoys this freedom and ain't uncensored by it no matter how unanimous the community dislikes the guy. People can just move 2nd layer without the downvote visible and enjoy the lack of censorship if they built it that way. No need to bother with 1st layer frontends if they are so bothered with mean people taking away their reaards. They could just earn from their community coins if they find value in it.
Doing that is building on sand as I have already said. What happens on layer 1 is a direct result of what happens on Layer 0. We can’t think that by building on a faulty Layer 1 a Layer 2 solution is going to fix the problem. It’s only going to amplify it. Anyone with an understanding of systems could tell us this.
Raw exposure to DV has only spread unfriendliness and disfunction throughout the system… gangstalking is proof of this. Why scale something that isn’t working? How do you market something that’s broken? No amount of flossing over is going to work. Retention is proof and the proof is in the pudding.
By the way… Pomp spoke about what we are attempting to innovate here on Hive today… he talked about why it’s important… and he also talked about what decentralized platforms like Hive need to do to gain market share and why user friendliness from function to community matter. Check it out!
https://twitter.com/wilmetcalfe/status/1447976338548084743?s=21
The difference between this place and Youtube is no one can have the anxiety to get deplatformed by a whim. Have you seen strikes on channels where the AI decides or just people abusing the report button for trolling? people get their channels taken down temporarily for those false DMCA or AI takedowns, we don't get that to happen here. If one has strong political opinions and whackos here they still get a voice and have the damn privilege to point where the source of voice to skull is. They don't tolerate that shit on YT even if it's just expressing an opinion the content gets removed. Here people can get access even if it's "muted"
We are trading one anxiety (abuse) for another. We have got to do far far better than this for this project to have relevance to those considering other options than what’s presented with social2.0. We need to control for negative factors on the blockchain but we need to do it constructively and fairly with owners and freedom in mind. If we can’t do that we will not succeed. People will not invest. Users will not be retained. And ideas (business) can not flourish. After 4 years of being here heart and soul… I know what needs to change on this blockchain and I think that I’m not the only one realizing this. To stay the same is to not grow and become better. If we aren’t growing (at Layer 0 and Layer 1) nothing on Layer 2 will survive. It’s basic fundamentals.
Perhaps we are looking at the problem from two different view points… but I’m glad we had this conversation.
It’s been beneficial.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.
👍
@wil.metcalfe
There’s more than one way to look at a problem. That’s the value in valuing people with different ideas and opinions. If you have a culture that doesn’t accept differences you will have solutions that are to narrow and ultimately fail. The world is far to wide and big for this sort of thinking and anything that is derived from a foundation that is too narrow in scope will endUP deficient and marginalized. It’s not the time to regurgitate pre-conceived ideology… it’s the time to unplug from the Hive think and actually LISTEN to the community. A social blockchain like this one will grow if it is listening because it can then have the vision required to innovate the future. The future is far to dynamic for static fixed mindsets. We need real solutions and this isn’t the level of thinking that’s going to get us there. You can’t build castles on sand… you have to build them on well thought out bedrock. Blockchains founded on these fundamentals will stand the test of time and not perpetuate disfunction.
Great job building on those real solutions, by downvoting people you disagree on with your comet wanker, you effectively do the same thing the people you try to accuse being mean only taking a moral high ground. That's the height of hypocrisy. I don't downvote people for their opinions. It's the financial rewards I am taking why I downvote.
You on the other hand, disagree and downvote opinions you dislike. I would understand it if my comments got rewarded and you taking those reaards out is an expression of your opinion. But to downvote even when there is nothing to take from a zero payout comment? Bruh, that's pretty much how bigots work.
Say what you will… but celebrating being mean is so far out of any healthy mindset… being a bully is so far out of any healthy mindset… I’m going to take an opportunity to communicate those values. And bullying and being mean deliberately (in public hidden by a profile) is something that I dislike enough to DV immediately. Do I risk taking singular action? Yes. But so long as there is raw exposure to the DV I will use it to do good. Do I like it? No. I would rather take collective community action. That’s an intelligent response. I have showed you where we are currently… and I have shown you where I think we need to go. I have taken the time to logically discuss this with you. I have even explained why you got those DV’s from @Comet.Ranker in the 1st place. If that isn’t some form of respect I don’t know what is.
Take it or leave it. I hope you consider well what has been discussed here today.
I’m going to give you an full UP vote. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss things with me even if we might have conflicting view points. There’s value in that we connected in some form or fashion.
Have a good day!
I’m about to kick off another full day myself!
@wil.metcalfe
Dunno, some of us have political ideologies unpopular in our local areas that we have to take our privacies seriously. Have you ever received a death threat for speaking out against your local government? then find live ammos sent to your mailbox over the course of months? When you can't trust your own government to protect you. I live in difficult places. You take your freedom of speech for granted. That's why I never understood people crying for downvotes as a means of censorship here. It's just a bunch of grown ass adults who never lived with mortal threats to their being.
I don't think campaigning against downvotes are solved by adding more downvotes. It's just muscling in your belief system on others to conform or get more downvotes. Ironically using the same method the bullies you campaign against. So if your bullies listen to you by using your own force but having a moral high ground, it makes you more right?
Now we are getting on the same page and speaking constructively.
What your describing… the things that aren’t working in your country… (And yes… my heart breaks to hear these sorts of things and I understand why many feel they must hide their identity.) These are the very reasons why we need to continually be developing, innovating, working together to make things better.
We don’t need another reflection of how the world currently is. We need digital freedom so that it can be democratized to every living human on the planet. THIS is why we all need to be open to finding new and better ways to human.
My investment mentor taught me years ago that all investments should be carefully examined (That’s what I have been actively doing on Hive for the last 4 years.) and then those investments need to be inverted.
Both sides of the coin need to be examined for an intelligent decision to be made… and the answer is usually on the edge (innovation) because the world isn’t black and white, right and wrong. (some things are absolutes but most things just aren’t… and those are the things people waste energy and time on fighting about.) Most things are complex and relative. They change with time, place, person, and situation.
The answer is in all of us realizing that Hive is a tool. It is a technology and therefore needs to be evaluated continually on the results it is producing.
We don’t want to scale the worlds problems here in blockchain form… we want to scale real world solutions rapidly and online.
That’s why blockchain exists in the first place.
I’m actively surrounding myself with these sorts of people… and I’m looking for people who want to make the world better.
That’s what I invest my time in. That’s what I invest my expertise in. That’s what I invest my passion in. That’s what I invest my capital in. And I invest in people who want to do this…
When I came to Hive 4 years ago… that’s what I invested in.
Has the story changed?
Well…
I’m currently inverting the story so I can see for myself.
You experienced a little of this…
It doesn’t feel good to have a DV… and really the DV is only their for the untouchables to use.
It is clearly a mechanism to own smaller accounts and perpetuate group think.
I tried it out.
I tried to use it for a good purpose…
Did that work?
I don’t know… but what I do know is that it lead to us talking at depth. (Is this a form of respect? Sure… even if the words used weren’t always respectful I think we have come to understand each other a little better.)
I made up for your downvote with an UPvote to show you that I ment no harm… and only wanted to signal a message to you.
Did it get your attention?
Yes.
But did it get your attention in the right way?
Perhaps not…
But with all the hostility happening on the blockchain…
It was worth a shot.
I’ll give it a 50/50 grade.
I don't harbor any specific personal drama talking to you. If you're talking about the recent downvote made on your comment, I follow a trail and it's inconvenient to unsubscribe for me. I personally don't find any sense downvoting something that has no potential payout (other than it being an automated spam) because it's a waste of dv mana compared to other things that it could be used for.
I think putting your efforts into a productive and positive direction is something worth respecting. But I still stay firm that if you're going to downvote mean comments (that have no payout and just for the sake of disagreeing) it's not really changing people's stand at all. It's just muscling staked power and no different from what the bullies you identified against.
I don't see downvotes as a means of censorship. I've seen people get muted and have a low rep but conversing with them seems fine. Like the tag doesn't even make sense but ok I suppose some are bothered with the label but not me. It's a just a matter of putting the extra effort to click "display comment" that makes what they have to say visible.
Harmful content should be down voted. Spam (as agreed upon by the community) should be down voted. Plagiarism should be down voted. But before it’s blindside downvoted… it should, obviously, be brought in a structure and methodical well laid out and transparent way for the COMMUNITY to decide. Any other ways trades one abuse for another.
I have seriously given this plenty of thought… accusations of this nature from people who don’t know me, hide behind anonymous accounts, jumping to assumptions, levying labels, and spreading lies… does little to encourage any sort of trust and mass adoption from high value accounts.
A coded DV structure that’s not fully thought through and developed only detracts away and spreads disfunction where it doesn’t need to be. Instead of BUIDLing we are busy fighting ourselves.
That’s energy miss-spent.
I have told you clearly my point of view and why it is that I am of this mind.
My people will respect my honesty…
I don’t care what anyone else thinks about me… so long as I continue to speak truth and compound trust… that’s what matters to me.
Social Capital always proceeds Financial Capital.
That’s my value set.
And those who know me and have been my audience for the past 4 years… those people know what I’m talking about and why I’m talking about it.
Conform to a consensus on how downvotes should be used? Sounds like centralized opinions on how things should be done. The same demons you try to purge.
What it does is it bring every owner that cares about Hive and it’s future together. Rather than a few in a closed group deciding what constitutes the required DV it brings everyone together and scales the solution at the base layer. You can’t scale a centralize solution. If you attempt to it only ends up excentuating human failings. If we bring everyone together we send a clear message against spammers, plagiarists, and people creating harmful content… that we as a community are willing to collectively (our strongest position) defend our freedoms. We are all responsible for this and the more people we can get to pare their ownership freedom with the responsibility required to adequately protect AND market the blockchain the sooner we can all stop fighting ourselves and continue building better ways to human TOGETHER!
Do you see the vision?
I just see this voting activity done by comet wanker. Do your delegators even know youre using the account to vote on your own comments?
Go check. I explained why those DV’s happened. Have a good day and I hope that calm and clarity are a part of your day. 🙏
!PIZZA
the douche bot hits in 3,2,1....
@frugalgamer, sorry! You need more $PIZZA to use this command.
The minimum requirement is 20.0 PIZZA liquid, and 0.0 PIZZA staked.
More $PIZZA is available from Hive-Engine or Tribaldex
oops wrong token. I was hungry i guess.
!BEER
View or trade
BEER.Hey @ecoinstant, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @frugalgamer for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.For some Downvotes ,The Whole Hive community should not be abandoned .Downvotes can be fixed on the base of inteligence .in example ,communucate with downvoters and try to conclude the problem with finding solution.