Perhaps we need to speak as one?
I try to stay abreast of all things Steem, but at times - things simply go over my head. I need to see them in action and watch how the application affects me and others around me.
This is sometimes good, and sometimes bad. For HardFork 20, I think we all know that seeing things in action were pretty devastating for newbies. Necessary for the future? Yes, we've been told that now, our platform will be much more scalable for the future. But maybe, just maybe - the timing wasn't exactly right?
It seemed to me that we took an awfully big hit. As the founder of a community almost entirely filled with newbies - perhaps my perspective was a little skewed. However, I know that people like @shadowspub, @simplymike and myself (along with countless other unsung heroes) handed out delegations to newbies as fast and carefully as we could, in order to help them stay and keep our platform from losing people as quickly as we were signing them on. Were we successful? I don't know. I know that we lost a lot of good people who were enjoying the platform.
The reality of that makes me pause a bit on HF21, specifically on the content rewards proposal. HF21 will move the current rewards from 75 (author) 25 (curator) to 50/50.
I'm concerned that though this push for greater curation rewards is intending to put a greater emphasis on rewarding the recognition of quality content - that what will actually end up happening is a loss, once again, to the small accounts.
Small accounts already have small percentages of the curation rewards because their rewards are based on their vote (which... is small). However, large accounts will be taking an even larger chunk of the curation rewards, since now more is available to them.
Is this not the makings of "the rich keep getting richer, while the poor keep getting poorer"? Will this cause an even greater divide between the Steemit classes, making it MORE difficult for newbies to grow? At least with 75% author rewards, we are giving Steemians the chance to make their content attractive enough to lure curators. We ALREADY have a system in place that encourages quality content. Abuse will always happen and can never be truly eradicated from a system. Why are we making it that much harder on the people who are really trying to produce good content?
Especially when their small curation rewards won't make up for what they're losing in author rewards. Are we really considering taking from the poor and giving to the rich?
This proposed 50/50 change may or may not work to the end that it intends to implement. That's not the point of this post. The point of this post is this:
There are enough people who are worried about this change that I think it would be wise to table this change for now, and consider it for another Hard Fork.
There is enough going on in HF21 that will bring potential progress -WITHOUT adding in this curation rewards change. For the sake of the community, (that is mostly minnows with small votes, and therefore small percentages of the curation rewards) let's allow them to grow instead of the continued slaughter that seems to be focused mainly on them.
I know that there are a lot of people that feel this way - but are there enough voices to be heard? Instead of talking amongst ourselves, let's just see how many people agree that we should wait on the change from 75/25 to 50/50 rewards.
If you think we should wait on this change and take it out of HF21, please simply put your name as a comment below. If we have enough voices, perhaps our witnesses who represent our community will speak for us.
P.S. I had considered not writing this. I don't like drama, don't want to stir the pot, and quite frankly - feared that it might cause retribution! And then I reconsidered. If I can't speak my heart and mind on the platform that I love, out of fear of being silenced , then this isn't the platform that I thought it was. If I would rather stay silent than possibly effect change, then I am more concerned for myself than my community. And so - I spoke.
@dreemsteem
@enginewitty
it's good to see witnesses involved in the discussion.
Your voices are important on this.
@greencross
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I've been reading some of the arguments for and against the changes and I think that people on both sides care and have good points but we didn't get into this space to side on caution. I know there's resistance to change because we don't want to lose what we have and the smaller accounts etc but what we have isn't good enough. Sad to say but I'd rather lose small accounts along the way (which would happen in any case at a natural rate), if we can grow exponentially
There are far more people that don't know about us than do so the upside of gaining new users outweigh the keeping of the few, as cruel as it sounds. I do also think STEEM and steemit will only be a catchment area and the other dapps and scot communities will be where its at
It gives us options and if you don't like whats happening on steem find a tribe, maybe become a big PAL user, that's the beauty of it all. STEEM is the gateway drug but shouldnt be the only getaway or drug, with all thats happening theres no no signle point of failure and we wont feel HFs as hard as we used to.
Just my 2 cents and nothing but love for ya!
Love for you too! Not sure I agree with the fact that we would lose small accounts along the way - Welcome Wagon's retention rate was in the 75% range - where Steemit's was 9%. After HF 20 - ours dropped down to about 25%. The changes they made definitely pushed small accounts out. I fear its about to happen again. There is only so much winnowing that a platform can withstand before the foundation crumbles. I'm not saying we can't consider it later. I'm saying there's enough change in the proposal WITHOUT that - to still make us grow. Thanks for adding your 2 cents! But it's about to be 1 cent if we go through with the 50/50 hehehehe (kidding)
small accounts have equal opportunity to gain steem via 50/50 , I have not read but the big thing that affects the content for me is the way the rewards are calculated due to the curve so more votes and bigger give them a better payout or something ... This forces people to just do what sheep do and follow 200 other peoples vote for the sake of it. $1 with 100 votes vs $1 with a single vote is kinda what I have stuck, they don't seem like they will be equal. Anyhow. I got my spycam, popcorn, diapers and will wait and see.
Not really
I can explain why... But probably will in a post.
Too.much for a comment
There were a couple more complicating factors than the hard fork... The complete collapse of the crypto ecosystem probably also contributed!
I don't agree. All of the people who left here were not losing thousands on bitcoin (or any other coin) They left here because the ones who came to make money - were no longer able to make money.
The ones who were willing to make money LATER - and have fun meeting people NOW ... were willing to hold off on the "big payouts" that they might have been mistaken about. (clearly were mistaken lol) But the community kept them here. It was fun to read, post, comment, and slowly build this new family for them
When it became clear that they couldn't earn real money, and that now they ALSO couldn't afford (in RCs) to have fun with that community anymore without paying to play... they had no choice.
I really don't think the collapse of the crypto ecosystem had anything to do with the people like that - because most of them were not interested / had the ability to be cryptoinvestors.
Steem was different. they could enjoy themselves AND earn slowly.
then it got flipped on them.
(and its about to get flipped again)
Fair enough, I am mistaken there! You are right, the people joining at that time were already (should already..) have known that crypto was now diving.
Change, always scary, very true....
I know what you are saying, but there's this nagging thought in my head:
What happens when more and more content creators walk away?
Already, the HF21 is proposing to take out of the rewards pool for the SPS.
ON TOP OF THAT< there is this discussion to move even more Rewards out by cutting rewards for Content creators. We don't know what the Economic Impact of the platform will be the first change, in Funding the Worker Proposal System (SPS).
NOW, to add even more uncertainty, and drive away even more users, and content creators? It's too much at once.
As both a creator and curator, i see the good and bad.
BUT, after HF20, and the HUGE losses of users, I am not sure how many more users Steem can afford to lose.
I am with you @bluefinstudios and have left a loooong comment on this post. Thanks for calling me over.
@hazem91
It's in implements phase already I think there's nothing we can do about it, other than to hope it turns out well
it's only in it's beginning phase.
ONE of the biggest things we can do, is to discuss it, and let others know what potential impact might be. It's change, and sometimes that's good. BUT, not all change is. Remember Hard Fork 20?
There is ALWAYS time to change. Nothing has been implemented yet.
If they find an error in their test net - do you think they wont take the time to fix it?
Its the same for this discussion. If they find that enough people are concerned... don't you think they need to take the time to fix that?
I haven't been following it enough to know what to think.. Still too new to everything and completely ignoring the math about it..
But just for fun..
!dramatoken
Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!
To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.@audreybits
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@naltedtirt
@bluefinstudios
@saffisara
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@omra-sky
@brisby
@thekittygirl
YET... people tell me all the time that I write good posts, they appreciate the hours of research that goes into many of them, that they learn a lot from reading my writing, yet the payouts do not reflect much appreciation (although I sincerely appreciate every little upvote I get!!!). 😕
Without well-researched /well-thought, quality content, what will we have left...?!?!?
Of course you commented - I should have read properly. And that 2c is worth $200!
Yes, precisely. On all counts.
yes @thekittygirl
I'm working on a new post now... so that we can see the numbers
@dreemsteem ~ If you remove the "unity" or "steem" tag and replace it with #palnet, your post will be visible on the https://palnet.io front-end as well!
ok will do!
@dreemsteem
I agree. 100% and you have a full vote from me on this. It took me more than 18 months to reach my current status and with already minimal returns on my posts which are set to 50/50, I don't relish the idea of further shrinkage. I was plankton with HF20 and thanks to a delegation from @lynncoyle1 was able to build up a little again and return it when she needed it for someone else. The current structure already makes it difficult for newbies to get going - so much so if they have a great introductory post and respond/engage with comments as all "good" Steemians should, they run out of Mana so quickly and it takes days to replenish.
The result:
Loss of momentum, disillusionment and another wasted account.
I, too, do not believe that the increase in curation rewards will result in better quality. Nor is it going to address the issue of buying votes. On the contrary, I think it will have the opposite effect: those who can afford to buy the votes, will. The same applies to the downvotes - they are not going to stop; nor is the spam. Let's be realistic, the Steemworld is simply a microcosm of the real world and full of folk who will, can, and do, find a way to buck the system. How this is dealt with is a governance matter over which my friend @quillfire has opined, some would say, ad nauseum, but give him more than his due: he’s thought about it, said it and it makes sense. More sense than what is proposed by HF21. And no, he didn’t tell me to come over here and sing his praises….
Another point: we support our mates - that's also human. We support posts that they enjoy and/or which resonates for us and them. That's also human. You can change the technology as much as you like, but in the end, it's designed by humans for humans and most of us have feet of clay. I know I do.
If I am offered the opportunity to get an upvote from a whale if I post a link on his twitter feed or on one of his posts, will I pass it up because it may or may not resonate for him? Hell, no. Why, because that single vote will double, triple or even quadruple a pay out. For someone who puts time and effort into long posts for a pay out that is sometimes less than $1, well, you catch my drift.
Lastly, on the issue of quality, there are so many different views on quality which is an entirely subjective matter, and even if one were to set criteria for quality, these are subject to interpretation. Let’s look at Demming’s definition of quality, viz., fit for purpose and it begs the questions: what purpose and whose?
From what I have read, and I admit that the tech stuff is entirely lost on me, so I deal in principles rather than technicalities, I have to agree that HF21 will benefit the benefactors and not the intended beneficiaries.
@fionasfavourites
PS I am calling over @nickyhavey, @blockurator, @cheese4ead, @bengy, @zekepickleman and @thekittygirl in the hopes that they will add their 2c worth.
Thanks for the tag, but I added my 2¢ a while ago! 🙂
well thought out!
Thanks, it's been brewing for a while! :D
I'm sitting here - nodding my head. exactly exactly exactly.
I'm working on another post with some numbers.. so people won't have to wonder what will happen - they can see exactly what WILL happen.
and then they can choose for themselves.
Thanks for your contribution to the conversation! and for tagging people you think might be concerned too! :)
It's good to know that I'm not entirely alone in my thinking. :D
I look forward to your next post - I hope you will tag me as I'd not like to miss it.
Thanks for going out to bat on this.
@zekepickleman
Precisely!
When it comes to hard forks, I kind of feel like the dog backing at the mailman. Not really understanding the function of the event, and having it happen no matter how much I bark.
I can definitely see the big established accounts getting even richer as they can often just switch the algorithm to vote more an earlier and reap the lions share of the increased curation. While intending to help the little folks, they will now get .0011 instead of .001 curation reward for their 100% tiny upvote. So, they will make .01$ more a day. This will not even be detected and will not encourage anyone to stay or feel more empowered.
We definitely do need more curation but not at the expense of author rewards. Dumb dumb dumb.
@zekepickleman
Precisely!
I don't think it's going to do what they want it to do. It could very well lead to more curation and shorter author posts. My two cents: Narrative!
Yes, Narrative. I am going to have to pay it more attention
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Well said @fionasfavourites, and I totally agree :) Plus you're sweet to continually mention me with the delegation! I was happy to help. @luzycypher did it for me when I first started out and I was so grateful for the boost; it's all part of the pay it forward attitude :)
And @quillfire loves a positive mention anytime haha He totally deserves it!
Thanks @lynncoyle1, but it's important that it's not just acknowledged, but what a difference it made - to keeping me on Steemit. As for @quillfire, he must be on holiday because he's been awfully silent during this. He's got some serious catching up to do!
Be well
@dreemsteem, @fionsfavourites, @lynncoyle1, @nickyhavey, @blockurator, @cheese4ead, @bengy, @zekepickleman & @thekittygirl
Fine points.
The intention of these modifications is to "elevate curation" ... an excellent, and an incredibly necessary, idea. But the proposed means to that end is, yet again, terrible.
Yet again, we have a solution that doesn't solve what's causing the underlying problems: cheating. Bidbots and other vote-manipulating mechanisms have diverted the overwhelming majority of SP away from curation as Whales and Orcas, who own 85% of SP, seek higher rates of Passive Income via delegation to bidbots, etc.
This triggers a cascade of downstream negative feedback loops and results in the utterly dysfunctional content curation/compensation system we now have. When Creating Quality Content becomes a Fool's Errand, any system based upon entertaining and engaging an audience is at the precipice.
The proposed fixes in HF21 don't ban bidbots. Indeed, they may well encourage bidbot usage, at least for larger SP holders.
Here's what needs to happen (I've written extensively about HOW to accomplish this elsewhere) ... the investor class needs to accept that profits can come from two, and only two, sources:
Capital Gains: An increase in the price of STEEM; and
Curation Awards: This is the ONLY source of Passive Income that does not fundamentally damage the system.
The evidence that this is so ought to be blatantly obvious by now. And yet, we still have Whales and Witnesses trying to jury-rig 'fixes' such that they are not prohibited from seeking higher levels of Passive Income via 'gaming-rigging mechanisms.'
Still trying to have their cake and eat it too.
I am just now returning from a substantial absence from the blockchain. Such absence was caused by ... disgust. Such disgust was caused by reading the proposals for HF21 a couple of months ago.
What keeps drawing me back in, though, are the people. So many good people working their asses off, honestly and honorably trying to create something larger than themselves.
The problem, though, is that these good people won't fight.
I get it ... they don't want to cause problems. They don't want their blogs to degenerate into verbal warfare. And, they don't want to become targets for retaliation.
Go back and read the postscript to this article.
Fear.
But if the blockchain has become such a cesspool that constructive criticism, even though tepid in its tone, is potential grounds for being driven off the blockchain by self-interested fat wallets seeking to enforce silence respecting their malfeasance, then is the blockchain even worth trying to save? And if you say, "yes," then I would ask what it would take before you finally say, "no."
Just prior to my taking a break from Steemit, numerous comments began to appear on my posts, comments and replies ... from friends. I was being too negative. People (me) just needed to focus on the positive. The problem was not the endemic cheating but rather people's unwillingness to just 'learn to live with it.'
After some serious self-reflection, I've concluded that, no ... the problem is not me.
The problem is the unwillingness of the Silent Majority to stop being Silent. The problem is an unwillingness of Men of Good Conscience to stand up and fight for what they know to be right ... but lack the courage to demand. There is a Culture of Cowardice on the blockchain that is enabling the cheats and my joining the ranks of the timid only adds to the problem.
I'll be honest: I believe STEEM/Steemit is beyond redemption. The differences in visions of what the blockchain ought to be, and the minimal standards that ought to govern behavior and comportment, are simply too far apart to expect the opposing parties to find compromise.
Indeed, I have spent much of the past month attempting to work out the details of a model for a 'Steemit clone' that would create a blockchain faithful to what was originally envisioned.
No SMT's. No trying to be a launchpad for a tsunami of shitcoins. No trying to be a venture capital funding mechanism for Developers. And ... NO CHEATING! Just a crypto-backed social media platform where content creators and curators get paid ... and where Compensation is Commensurate with Its Quality.
It's not easy if you're going to try to do it right. There are a lot of cogs that have to turn in unison. But what is the alternative? Does anyone really believe that STEEM/Steemit is going to reform, becoming a model for meritocracy? Or that absent such reform the blockchain will suddenly become a viable 'going concern' in spite of all the machinations?
Anyway, if I decide such an endeavor is plausible, I'll publish a series of posts. The endeavor would require a lot of effort and I would need to assemble an army.
Quill
I felt the same way.
but for me? It isn't a matter of being silent (as you can tell by my posts and comments hhahaa) it's a matter of the way the governance is set up.
It doesn't matter if everyone changed their votes to vote in witnesses that would actually represent our interests - the votes of the large shareholders outweigh ALL of our collective votes.
So if we no longer have a voice (did we ever? no. but we were unaware of the lack of representation), then what sense does it make to stay?
I also had the same thoughts of creating our own endeavor - and just bringing the masses with me ( you have no idea how many people have DM'd me to know where I'm going after leaving Steemit) ... but I'm not sure that is my passion.
I have three other projects that have now had an IMMENSE amount of time returned to them - since I'm not longer on steemit. hahaha (did you also find that you had an enormous amount of time that was being eaten up???)
the disgust that I have is similar to yours - but is not focused on the silent majority. Because - the silent majority wouldn't have any more power than they do now - if they spoke up. The witnesses have the votes, and they are voted in by large stakeholders.
The only way that you could have a true change here - is if there was a redistribution of power. And that.... is highly unlikely at this point.
But I simply can't agree with your statement that its not easy if you're going to do it RIGHT. but - that is the heart of my other three projects - starting it off RIGHT.
Sad that you've come back to a situation that hasn't improved in your absence. I've not stopped fighting - I've just taken my fight elsewhere. (but still enjoy supporting the community and encouraging newbies when i can!)
Good luck with your army! hehehe Whatever you do - i hope you do it well and with integrity and with the heart that you displayed in your comments!
Dreem :)
This thread is the future of steem in the form of leaders becoming leaders.
This is why I am here for the long haul.
We won't win every battle but we will learn and adapt and cope and discuss and win in the longrun, more and more as we go.
So much awesome and powerful discussion.
Go for it @zekepickleman!!! The future will definitely need positive leaders like you 🤗
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Well my steem includes @dreemsteem. I am sure @shadowspub concurs.
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😄
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I do actually @zekepickleman ... but as her friend.... I also understand and support her reasons for not posting and powering down. She is however commenting and that is good
Cause I'd be lying if I didn't hope that at some point @dreemsteem will be able to see a way to give the place another try. Her posts are missed.
well some of my comments are as big as posts... does that count? LOLOLOL
Sure .... for now
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Oh I concur. It is purely self serving that I want her here and respect her decisions.
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I appreciate the admiration! Truly 😊
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And i just commented on this thread.... It's getting very interesting to see this post get new life in the comment section- a month after it was published!!!
I think if i tag you now it will show as an edited comment and not alert you... Hmmm I'll see if i can tag under it
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All good. I am all seeing! ;)
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Hahahahha! Nice :)
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@qullfire
Yes. And fighting what feels like a losing battle alone. Having just had a spate of downvotes because of a comment on a witness's post about a former witness, and where the power of those votes was substantial, and realising the accounts were probably bots run by aforesaid witness, I saw no point in commenting or retaliating.
I have, in the last while also become a little more active on Narrative. I'm still not sure how it all works and I'll be honest, I'm "recycling" some of what I consider to be my better posts from both Steemit and/or WordPress. I've been a bit more productive of late: a combination of inspiration and
having hadbeing able to make the time. So... Sigh....I'll happily be a foot-soldier or whatever role you might wish to assign...
Fiona
PS Glad to have you back...or whatever...thought you'd fallen off the planet...or worse....
I know what you mean too Fiona. And to be honest, some of the good people just see no reason to fight
They just think it's not worthwhile and they enjoy what steem is, as is, ans don't expect any more
It's not a bad thing at all. Just difference of opinion
I considered going somewhere else, and even wrote one post lol.
But honestly...I am really truly enjoying the extra time for my own projects.
I have SO much more time. I'm shocked that I allowed Steemit to take the lion's share of my free time for so long (and I didn't realize it!!!)
Now I just comment here and there and enjoy it sprinkled over my day :)
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Yip. I confess that's why I'm rethinking how I approach things. That includes recognising that my "non-Steem" website needs to be a base - it's more "Catholic" and if that content can be posted elsewhere and link back to that, I have less than nothing to lose.
That said, I do enjoy the engagement with the folk I've met here, and ironically, HF21 may allow me to do more engagement with fewer posts. It may also give me more time for posts that are less fluff and more of what I really want to write about and/or photograph....
Let's see how thing unfold.
Right! (Which is actually not what they're trying to make happen! Lol which is REALLY ironic!!
They're trying to make more engagement and more curation.
But as you said, and I have, and many others... Seems like it's actually going in a completely different direction.
But they are determined!
Determination is good. (I guess lol)
And really... I think we all wish the best for everyone. We just realize that steem is no longer the "good fit" it once was
But for others... It may be a better fit!
So yes... Unfolding is good ☺️
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I've recently been looking at some of the posts on Narrative as I've been an inactive member over there for some time. There are similiar complaints over there about reward distribution. And that is on a platform which was vocal about NOT being Steem.
You know, there will be power issues and disagreements for as long as we have human beings...
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@fionasfavourites,
Katie and I were talking about whether I ought to try to fire up interest in starting a new blockchain. I mentioned that I couldn't do it alone, that I'd need to first raise up an army.
She asked, "Who do you think would be the first to sign up?"
I responded, "Fiona."
South African gals have a grit in their souls that reminds me of Foreign Legionnaires.
I'm working on a proposal.
Quill
In my case it also has something to do with the principled Scottish stubbornness I inherited from my father....
You know where to find me.
@nickyhavey - you in?
I'm at a stage where I don't care about a platform itself or the company that runs it because every crypto site seems to have an innumerable amount of flaws, they either collapse, don't communicate to those that support them or do something(s) dodgy and all the time spent creating content goes with it.
This is why I never truly invested any money other than on my own website because I know that I will be able to keep that running myself as all these other sites have fallen by the way side.
Crypto is monopoly money for me, I have a job now that pays me money I can do stuff I want to with, any "bonus" I get from crypto from my music is just that, a bonus. It's not my main source of income and to be honest, $400 dollars for 1.5 years of work is not really helping me in the UK!
So, this platform that you're looking to develop will need to be so compelling for me to get involved with. It has to be easy to use, easy to sign up to, have a common set of rules based around meritocracy (you will get paid depending on the amount of effort you put in to a post rather - subjectivity towards a certain topic aside, you can create curation guild specialists or have niche curie-esque roles/accounts for that). And use the power to kick bullies off the platform or those who do not abide by community rules and guidelines. Oh and no bid bots.
Isn't this what whaleshares tried to do but there's no user base there? Isn't this what narrative tried to do but they went too far on the strictness of content creation? Isn't this what Trybe tried to do but their website was clunky and slow to load and they had upvote rings?
Building a Blockchain project is no small thing. It will be expensive but if there's one person I'd trust to make it work and enforce good practices it's @quillfire.
Edit: don't allow self voting either and KYC to limit to one account. Only community leaders can apply to have multiple accounts or if it's for a legitimate reason. We have all seen what happens with the bot upvote rings
BOOM! @nickyhavey
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Do I sound fed up yet? Haha
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You sound... Burned! Like we all have been hehehe
It's just reality, I guess. And I blame myself for believing in something that was too good to be true.
But like you and I have said in previous comments... Now we know better and so now we do better. Invest in what matters to us, toss the nonsense and keep the awesome people we've met along the way!
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I'm sure it could have worked if the good guys with the big stake stopped the other accounts building but we see anarchism doesn't work and decentralisation of people doesn't work either. You need people with an original idea to take that idea and lead it. Others will follow if they believe in your leadership right? I mean you have leaders and followers as personality traits in this world.
What being on steem has done is make me take a more serious approach to my blogs and website so I'm grateful for that and whenever I post from WordPress, it will go to steem. So in a way, I will not be doing that much differently. I still get more interaction on here than I do anywhere else at the moment but then, if I spent time on Facebook or Twitter then I could probably get the same engagement... Who knows?
Rejig, tweak, redefine... All part of the learning curve of a guy who likes putting the best he can in to his hobby 🙂
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100%!!
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🤐
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Exactly the reason why I stopped posting and started investing in my own project. Because at the end of the day- it's about making wise choices with your time and money, and banking on something that's worth it. (My project is not a crypto community.. it's a project for families - but I think it's valuable, fun, and worthwhile) and I'm amazed at how much time i have to invest now that I'm off steemit lol
And I feel the same way as you... It would take something AMAZING to pull my attention again
I'm.not interested in joining another platform thats only interested in taking.
I would rather use discord to stay in contact with the community, and invest my time in what matters over the long run.
If a site popped up on my radar that seemed like a cool opportunity, I'd consider it. But I think .... It's unlikely. (For all the reasons you stated) but if anyone does... Keep me updated! Lol
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It's why I stopped committing (or never fully committed) to one project because you never know and I listened to the little voice at the back of my mind that said I should focus on my own website first and foremost. Then look for ways to connect it to these crypto sites automatically... The music streaming ones have lost trust and so we're back to square one. But at least that square one is more elevated than before with the learning of how to be a better writer (I'd like to think).
I'm glad you have found solace in your new project. Detaching yourself emotionally from somewhere that was causing you grief is very freeing. I wrote a whole EP about it and then went travelling. The most freeing thing of them all!
I am "cryptoed out" as it were but with tribes happening on steem, it at least deflects the attention for me away from steemit.
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Yeah! Everything is a learning experience. And I would have never written my last book (and sequel, and third book 😂😂😂) if not for Steemit.
And I've also figured out what I DONT want to do on my own site.
Things that probably would have gone unchecked... I'm much more aware of how to avoid them from the beginning now.
I don't think steem is the devil. Hahaha far from it. I think it had the potential to be a cool tool, and now ... We move on.
Hahaha
Onward and upward 😉
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@nickyhavey,
Hey Nicky.
Dead on.
Here's the thing though ... building a functional crypto-based social media platform is not rocket science. But, as we've seen repeatedly, ensuring fair and honest interactions between the parties is key. So, that begs the question: why does such a seemingly simple goal seem so elusive?
Let me suggest that what we've witnessed in all the aforementioned crypto-based social media platforms is not a failure to understand computer code, but rather a failure to understand code which is genetic. More specifically, it is a failure to recognize that while technology changes, people don't. There has always been Free Riders in the affairs of Man and there always will be. And, one of the central challenges of all organizations and societies throughout history has been how to eliminate, or at least diminish, their impact.
The central lunacy of Anarchism, the ideology that underlies the development of cryptocurrencies, is that people can be encouraged, through positive re-enforcements, to be "good people" and to just "get along." That negative sanctions are not required. This is nonsense. Sticks are as necessary as carrots (hence the aphorism) and the shenanigans endemic on Steemit are evidence of the assertion.
Creating a meritocracy is the key. But meritocracies don't just happen by accident and they don't evolve into existence. They happen because a group of people insist upon their creation and viciously defend against their demise. This inevitably means everyone sacrificing their ability to self-deal and manipulate the system in exchange for prohibitions against others doing the same.
I have argued all this for almost two years. Post after post and untold comments and replies. Any organization without an Honor Code will be short-lived. Cheating, in any form, destroys the ties that bind.
Having said all that, there are also pragmatic realities that must be addressed. An inferior "business model" will kill even the most virtuous endeavor. One of the things I have argued ad nauseum is that blockchain strategic decisions are highly skewed because those in charge are almost exclusively techies ... people who seem immune to the insights of those with backgrounds in finance, economics, marketing, advertising, etc. "Great code" is not the objective of social media blockchains. The objective is code that enables "great user experiences." The code is but a tool, a means to an end ... not the end itself.
While this strikes me as being a pretty mundane observation, STEEM/Steemit and so many other of these projects seem hampered (if not crippled) by techies with coding dementia ... people believing that the code itself is the thing of beauty. It's not. Most people, myself included, couldn't care less. The net effect is subtle but pervasive. The techies believe that "this is their world" and non-techies just have to "adapt." I argue that the opposite is true. They work for us ... we don't work for them.
Anyway, I'm creating a few posts detailing my proposal and we'll see what happens. There are a LOT of pissed off people all saying the same thing as you and I. That said:
10,000 men with swords.
An army.
If the disaffected can't be coalesced into a united group with a shared vision, and a burning desire to bring it into being, my proposal would be just another in a long line of lost causes. Hence, I'm going to throw a hook in the water and see if there are any bites.
Quill
Here's your 64million dollar question .... how are you going to generate that reward pool without large investors putting in stake? Once you have the investors the rest of the problems and expectations flow from there.
@shadowspub,
Good point. A crypto-based social media platform needs Whales ... as they play an important structural role in capital formation. This is the Achilles Heel in Narrative's structure.
Steemit's structure is actually brilliant ... in theory. In reality, Steemit does not operate as it was originally designed. Instead, it has become a cesspool of vote manipulation and self-dealing which has destroyed the very dynamics that are necessary to make it grow.
Astonishingly, the people who have the most to gain, and the most to lose ... Whales ... cannot bring themselves to balance the system in such a way that would make it functional. Short-term self-interest destroying long-term viability.
The fixes are not difficult. I'm working on a proposal to create a Steemit 2.0 that would function as originally envisioned. Stay tuned.
Quill
well I'll wish you luck with that. IF you manage to pull it off.. I'd take part ... but you do realize over the long haul odds are not in your favour as long as you have to deal with people?
It's always the people!!! Lololol
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@shadowspub,
It's very much exploratory at this point and I wouldn't embark on such an initiative unless I believed there was a high chance of success. I have a military, finance and advertising background and so I would be approaching such an initiative very differently than the typical "techie-approach."
And, if EOS' Voice launches anytime soon, who knows, that might provide the necessary alternative.
Respecting "dealing with people" ... 90% of the population is not the problem, it's the other 10%. This has been the case throughout recorded history. I have no allusions about "perfecting humanity." Such a blockchain would incorporate mechanisms that would prohibit the behaviors that are crippling STEEM/Steemit ... and they would be backed up by mechanisms for enforcement.
Freedom of Speech, yes. Freedom of Behavior, no. Order, requires laws.
Quill
Love this comment so much!
I would be VERY interested in watching you take this on!!!
Come to think of it... I'd love for you to consult on my current project 😂
Like @nickhavey said (and I'm beginning to see what he meant) if someone could do it.... at first impression, It seems like you'd be the one to back :)
(JUST by the comments I've read of course...I'd actually have to get to know you more to really give my.opinion!)
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@dreemsteem,
As of this writing, STEEM is trading at $0.18 and is ranked 85th amongst cryptocurrencies in terms of market capitalization ($62 million).
Below is STEEM's 30-Day Chart (illustrating a 44% loss):
We are, in effect, in a Death Spiral (the chart is skewed "positively" by the fact that Powering Down occurs over 13 weeks).
EVERYTHING I warned would happen, over a period of two years and starting five weeks after my joining Steemit (back when STEEM was still in the Top 20), has now happened. It was ALL so FORESEEABLE.
And yet, there are those who are still hyping STEEM!!! They still see no reason for the fundamental reforms that would elevate Merit and eliminate Manipulation. They still don't see anything wrong with a system that permits institutionalized cheating.
Quill
.
.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@quillfire/central-premise-and-proposals-a-series-about-fixing-steemit-part-4 (Hyperlinks to earlier blockchain governance posts included in this post.)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@quillfire/follow-up-central-premise-and-proposals-a-series-about-fixing-steemit-part-4
https://steemit.com/steemit/@quillfire/the-bane-of-bidbots-an-intelligent-and-civil-discourse
I know... It's all so very sad. So do you predict this is the absolute end? Or will it have any new life in the future?
(I know that no one can really KNOW... Just asking your predictions)
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@dreemsteem,
Absent a miracle (like a billionaire deciding to buy up 25% of the blockchain and FORCING reforms, I don't see how STEEM/Steemit can survive. Indeed, during STEEMFest 3, I predicted there would not be a STEEMFest 4. The damage is simply too severe ... and HardFork 21 will very likely make it worse.
Worse still, the Whales and Witnesses STILL show no inclination to restrain their malfeasance. And, they're still living in a fantasy land where Satoshi's Dream of "Sticking it to the Man" (government regulators) is the goal.
Here's a quote from a comment I left about the importance of Derivatives back when STEEM was struggling to stay in the Top 30: https://steemit.com/cryptogee-musings/@cryptogee/killing-bitcoin-with-a-million-sob-stories
All complex systems have a "critical mass" below which they simply cannot function. When STEEM dropped below $1.00, I recall having a conversation with someone about Steemit's Core of 50,000 Active Users. That person argued that as long as the Core continued to post and comment, STEEM/Steemit would bounce back ... and the Core was battle-hardened veterans who weren't going anywhere. The problems were just growing pains.
I disagreed. Human beings are human beings and, to maintain their enthusiasm, they must have "something to believe in" as one cannot "believe in nothingness." It's like multiplying by zero. Ignoring this reality of humanity, I argued, constituted a huge strategic error.
My concerns were poo-pooed.
Steemit now has 8,000 Active Users.
The blockchain is now experiencing potent negative feedback loops, each force-multiplying the others. Short of a Super-Whale buying in BIG and FORCING reform (I'll leave it to you to calculate the odds), I see no way to stop the inevitable.
We need to start over, but this time, grown-ups ... not Millennials ... need to run the show. Gray hair with gravitas.
Quill
P.S. You HAVE to read this one ... it's satire and laughter is the best medicine. Read the comments too. https://steemit.com/powerhousecreatives/@quillfire/steemfest-4-the-whales-vs-the-minnows-chess-takedown-100-000-or-1-steem-prize
Two hours ago, I read one of your other posts and I had 22% when I began.
At 1% ....I quickly tried to reply before losing the ability! Lolol
(I failed...)
It was fascinating. I sighed through so much of it. (Sadly)
I was disappointed mostly in the fact that the comments of other Steemians who came to speak were mostly rude and arrogant.
Even if people disagree, I think there is value in speaking in kindness (or leaving a post is always an option! Lol)
I have about 5500 steem in my account now, (currently powering down for the first time ever since 2016)
And in the last 6 weeks it has dropped in value from @ $2500 to... I think now it's worth $1100? Maybe lower?
Really sad because I can't even take it out now until it's fully powered down.
And I suspect based on what you're saying it will be worth even less when that time comes.
I never expected to really make money here. So.it was a surprise for sure.
But now, seeing that I had something that will be worthless soon is disheartening.
Especially because now it could really be used to fund my Spunkee Monkee project.
But... It is life.
People were here and made money, and people were here and had fun, and people were here who created communities and people were here who destroyed. And on and on...
Lessons learned.
I know for myself I've actually taken some of these lessons to apply to what not to do for my own projects and how to begin with a strong foundation and with integrity and solid principles that I'm not afraid to.enforce.
It has made me narrow down what truly is important and what is nonsense. What should be kept, and what should be tossed.
I read your post and while I agree with your sentiments... I also partially agreed with one of your combatants hahahhaa
That some of the things that you were pushing for goes against what steemit was founded on.
And though I agree with you that it probably SHOULDN'T have been ....it was. And is why its failing now.
But.... That's where i would say.... Don't try to change steemit. There are too many people here who still want what it is, and will follow it down to the bitter end. What it is ... Is what they signed up for
I think for people like us (and so many others) a new site based on better principles is what we are looking for.
And then ....the people who want to join, know the rules from.the beginning and decide if that's what they want.
If they do, welcome aboard.
I wish you had the means to pull it off.
It would be so encouraging to have a better place to invite a LOT of the community.
Tuition.
Believe it or not, it was probably money well spent. You've gained a perspective you did not previously possess. And, the greater part of wisdom is not knowing what works, but knowing what doesn't.
As I tell my daughter, the trick in life is not learning lessons from experience ... it's not learning the wrong ones. Although it's important to learn that you cannot believe in all people, it is equally important to learn that you can believe in some. Differentiating one from the other, well ... that's why we've traditionally elevated the insights of those with gray hair.
We are all battle-fatigued. Our morale is lower than low. And, we exhibit signs of what might be called, "Steemit Induced Depression."
But ... humans are resilient.
We've all glimpsed the possibility of being part of something larger than ourselves and, although we'd struggle to explain why we care, we do. And so, with hearts that are broken and limbs that are weary ... we will stand, wipe the blood from our faces ... and begin again.
We will do this not because of some rational argument that we could articulate to some objective observer, but because of a belief we cannot now unbelieve simply because a few poisoned the well from which we all drank.
So, make a list of those who you do not wish to lose. I will do the same ... as will others. Together, we will rebuild from the rubble of what could have been.
Quill
You'll be on that list! Even though I've just met you! Lol
And yes, I have already begun again... But I had already begun asking "why scramble for scraps at someone else's table instead of planning a dinner party for my own friends!"
And that's what I've begun. Planning a dinner party for my friends and all the others that are value in what I'm doing.
It's not based in money (though it will need to be self-sufficient) but on creating passion in children for their futures. Not just for careers, but in health, their environment, their talents and being of service to others.
And empowering families to make it a fun journey!
That's my vision anyway :)
And it matters to.me a lot more than the things that have distracted me lately.
So... Wooooo!
Taking all those lessons with me! Applying them where they will really matter! 😊 (For me!)
I'll.check out your posts too!
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You know what I find intriguing?
This post is over a month old and it STILL has the most engaging comments/discussion happening here!
Just goes to show you that there are still lots of people who really would love to see a platform succeed. (and if it's not THIS platform.. they are ready for one that has the heart and mind to do it!)
@shadowspub
@bluefinstudios
@fionasfavourites
@jackmiller
@nickhavey
@enchantedspirit
@awakentolife
@eturnerx
@richarde
@simplymike
(I hope you all open this comment in partiko or you'll never find it since this comment alone has 50 responses on it hahahahhaa)
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Indeed! And opened and commented on @partiko..
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Hahahhaa yes...the only way when posts have these long (and awesome!) comment threads! Lol
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@dreamsteem
I have just read your conversation with @quillfire. As I said in an earlier comment, I would be a foot soldier and would like to see something happen to improve things. I, too, am keen to find something which "manages" the human foibles because it recognises them. I also appreciate that it's the 80:20 principle. Look forward to your proposals, Quill.
Only e's in my name hehehe
And i also look forward to his proposal!!!
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That's what happens when I respond to comments before getting out of bed on a Sunday morning. I shall not forget @dreamsteem.
PS I went back and changed the "e" for an "a" 🤦🏼♀️
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But then you said dreAmsteem again in this comment 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Oh my gosh! This is awesomeness lolol
That's what I get for spelling dreem with two E's
But... Two ee's are best lololol
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And one of your commenters is a wannabe purist...I can but dream...😀🤔
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No.... You can but drEEm
Lololol
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DreAm on... lol...
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Hahahhahahahahahhaa
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Double ee's are best. 😂😂😂😂😂
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...ee...you are so right 🤣
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We all invested a lot of our time building our blogs and providing good content to go with it. I just don't see how Steemit will move forward if there are no users. Where will the value come from? I hear about all these new great things coming up, but I still think without real people it is sadly just a matter of time until this becomes a bot platform. Some things should off been stopped at it's tracks but they did not do it because it surely benefited somebody from the top. I am no expert on the matter at all. I do hope things change for the better. In reality I write for myself. I never did for the money even though it is nice to be rewarded for your content. Even though things are not looking good for users on Steemit now, this is still best platform out there to share your content on. Maybe somebody in the future will make a platform learning from some of the mistakes Steemit made. Until then I will keep posting and connecting with the friends I made here. If I get rewarded for it it is a bonus. I do know DreemSteem has invested enormous amount of time helping new users on this platform and if anyone deserves to be rewarded for her efforts it is her. Will things get better? I don't know. By all of this I realized we have no control whatsoever over what direction Steemit is going to take. And, that is the reality of it. There is no point of debating things out of our control. I just want to wish you all a blessed day. 😀 @dreemsteem
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Hi you!!!! Hehehhee
Exactly... The friends we make and take go with us!
But keep your eye out for @quillfire hehehe
Maybe in time, he can make something unique 🤗
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Yep. I heard of many other platforms popping out. I hope @quillfire can make one for us. Someone who is familiar with all the issues here on Steemit. That would be awesome no doubt. 😀
Until then my amazing friend let just make the best out what we have. 😀
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Yes, I agree. I don't post but as you can see i still comment whenever I'm called hehehe
And.look for ways to support the community.
But most of.my.time now goes to writing and to developing Spunkee Monkee!
( And I'm having a blast! Hehehe)
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@zekepickleman this is the first..and then my comment under it hahahah
But you won't find it unless you have partiko lol
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That I do!!
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I don't know... I haven't completely been following this, but I do in principle agree with reward structure change (this might come back and bite me later!).
My biggest problem with Steem at the moment is the fact that there is no closing of the economic loop. What is the benefit in buying and holding Steem? At present, generally very little other than on chain prestige. This is not really a sustainable economy then, if the rational choice is to sell rather than buy.
Having a larger curation reward might encourage one to have a larger SP to collect more of the stake (and the sps will help develop dapps that encourage the purchase of Steem).
I know that it feels bad that authors will initially lose out, but at the moment, the rational choice is to collect Steem to sell... Not to hold and not to buy.
Perhaps someone can suggest to me otherwise!
Well, they hoped that with HF20 - with the limited resource credits - it would force people to pay to play, and we see how well that worked out.
I'm writing a post now to show you exactly how it will affect you. I think numbers are easy to understand when it's right in front of you. But... we'll see.
I also believe that the amount of steem that you'll need to buy and hold in order to make the curation rewards beneficial.... is negligible. If that's the motivation for you to hold steem, I think you're going to be disappointed in your return.
It's not just about authors initially losing out. If everyone was losing, and it was balanced over the whole community - then - we could all take the hit together.
But I think you're going to see that when the rewards are coming from authors - they are not getting dispersed equally over the community. HUGE portions are going into the pockets of curators who ALREADY have a large portion of the curation rewards at 75/25
I'll tag you in the next post. we'll see if we can get a discussion going.. and if I'm wrong - I'd love to be corrected ;)
No, I agree that even with these changes that curation rewards are going to be pitiful for an account my size. And I know full well that the amount of Steem that I would need to buy to make it worthwhile would be tremendous...
Hoeve, if this reward distribution was attached to a better way of distributing the curation part (levelling out the SP playing field) it could be interesting... On the other hand, that is also just ripe for abuse... On the other hand, perhaps that is what down vote pool is for...
On the last hand, I'm not really sure how it will be... It is quite different, but I don't think any side has any idea how it will play out in the long term. There are many convincing stories, but all of them have hefty assumptions.
Tag me, I'm curious. But I'll just put it out, I'm a fence sitter on this one... But my point about there needing to be a reason to hold Steem still bothers me, but perhaps this isn't the solution..
not just an account your size.... but its taking from accounts your size and GIVING to large accounts.
that's the biggest problem.
@bengy
I think that the value of Steem, the role of dapps and the quality of content are somewhat different things. I also think that the motivations for joining and staying and/or leaving bear thinking about. I saw a recent post from @aggroed (https://steemit.com/witness/@aggroed/is-hf21-a-trap) in which he argues the necessity for HF21 and at the same time extols the virtues of communities.
I suspect that those of us who have blogged for years for the love of it, as opposed to a monetary return, and who cannot invest in Steem, have a completely different perspective. I came in the hopes of using sweat equity to build up a head of Steem. I was a late adopter and it didn't work for me. Others, whose currencies have even less value than the ZAR, can, and do use sweat equity. However, where that is not possible, why do we stay?
Because of the community.
Because of the promise of monetisation. Ultimately.
HF21, after the damage of HF20, I have to view with jaundice. MHO.
Agreed, community is what keeps many around.. And that is an important part, but we can't expect everyone to have that be enough. There does need to be real economic value in Steem if only to pay for the servers that host the content and the computers and electricity of the witnesses to secure and validate the chain.
@bengy
There is an additional element: Steemit would not function if it were not for the people on the blockchain. There needs to be some return for them and if I were to view my engagement here from the perspective of ROI - and purely in economic terms - and I include sweat equity because in my line of business, time is money - I should have dumped it a long time ago.
Why do I stay, in addition to the community? Well some of that has to do with the dapps that I use and which make it seamless to post to the blockchain and which offer me a value-add. What I will add, which is as important is that I was blogging/microblogging from those platforms before Steemit, so its part of that which keeps me here.
One last point: If the propsect of realising returns for the sweat equity does not improve and I'm offered other opportunities that are commensurate with what it's worth, well, that, too is a no brainer. I'm gone. I'll get @jaynie's boot and probably end up off the platform.
Fiona
and now that these changes will decrease the economic value for most small-medium sized accounts.... lol
it really doesn't make sense.
If steem needed money to keep running and had to take a little from everyone in proportion to their size... go for it
but the money that is being taken from authors is not going back into the pool evenly distributed.
curation rewards are stake based.
for the large account that gives a huge upvote - and then gets curation back? they're getting back double.
for the small account that gives their "huge" upvote - (100% for them, but still only .01) their curation rewards are being doubled... from what? 0.001 to 0.002?
but the huge accounts - THEIR curation rewards are being doubled too. from $2.00 to $4.00??? or much more???
it doesn't seem very fair to me.
Yes, definitely in the short term the effect is to decrease the non-big accounts get. However, it does give some reason (albeit small at the moment) to use the author earnings to power up rather than to sell.
Anyway, I only know that economies are much more complex and non-linear systems than what many expect. I only know that there will be unexpected results, quite probably not the ones we expect... And that I just have no idea!
... Which does lead me to wonder why an economist or two isn't consulted about these economic changes? It appears that in the crypto space (not just Steem) we fall into the trap that there are easy and simplistic cause and effect...but that is off topic, just interesting (and not a comment on you, just digressing...).
take a look at the new post... im about to tag you in it.
;)
take a look at that chart @bengy.... i knew it would be skewed in favor of big accounts before we made it. but now? its pretty blatant. and i hope that this part of the proposal gets tossed in the garbage. fast.
I expect the usual to happen agreement about something and nothing comes of it.
The truth is this is a ploy t keep the major portion of the rewards to those with stake. It is nothing more than that, No matter what words are used to describe what the process involves or the result it is said to give, It wil give a higher reward to those with the power already,
It is a scheme to reward those who have more vested, plain and simple. New people who struggle to gain any kind of reward they can give to others. Will struggle even harder, reducing the retention of the user base unless the individual have a finance to invest.
Those who recieve a total vote of $1 lose 25% of that and get 0.75c. lets reduce that even more for your effort to you only getting 0.50c for your time and effort.
It seems it will take the person reading and being entertained by your content will put as much effort and time into reading it as you did.
The reason why you or us no body's are listened to is simply, We won't join together. We will do feck all to make a change and wait for someone else to do it. We have been through the process of forming a committee and doing elections to get something going. Why is that power of the people not speaking up for the people?
Oh wait Slipped my mind, Controlled by those who have a higher stake.
i partially agree with you @thehive.... but...at the same time - I just wrote another post. LOL
why? because maybe if people SEE what it means TO THEM and not just them.... but see the VISUAL representation of what it means for others - and why.... maybe - just maybe - we can halt this ridiculousness.
Hope you didn't read any of that as against anything you said,
Ultimately. I think we need to grow a strength to represent them. This is something I have voiced from day 1. Without it, you don't have a voice.
I also am against the so-called EIP.
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i would imagine that a lot of us in the RED column would not really see the benefit! LOL
@shadowspub
I found the responses to @cervantes poll of a month ago interesting but have noticed several witnesses mention they have reservations about aspects of HF21.
I have put a new poll up that more options for those reservations to be expressed.
https://steemit.com/dpoll/@shadowspub/poll-for-the-wtinesses-on-hf21
Anyone can participate but really want to see the top 20 respond which is response to the community.
I'd love to see only the top 20 respond - so we can keep it very clear! :)
although - i guess we can always write a post with ONLY their responses so it is just as clear!
@elsiekjay
I have shared the same concerns so many times but nobody seems to care when you don't have the power. Should it go through, Steem will be as good as dead. What is a platform without creators?
#no5050
@elsiekjay... How I wish that we were both wrong about this.
Well, at least we will all become AMAZING curators! lol Think of how much TIME we will have to read now! Maybe that's what we all need to do.... Go find a bunch of unknown newbies and give them all 100% upvotes.
Then - since we are the only ones upvoting - we will give half our upvote to them - and half will come back to us!
THE FOLLOWING PROPOSAL IS FACETIOUS, BUT I CAN TOTALLY SEE PEOPLE DOING THIS
Writing my Fireflies posts take me approximately 3 hours each ? and I usually make about $2 on them? sometimes $1.50 Don't forget to take away the new 50% curation rewards! So I keep 75 cents... divided by the 180 minutes it takes to write? You're looking at about 0.005 cents per minute.
My @fundition posts get a nice payout because @fundition is so faithful to support that project!!! Around $18 usually? so after the new 50% curation - thats down to $9 left. (its actually less - but lets just leave it there for the sake of the example! lol) The real life work I do for my project? oh... about 8 hours of work in a day. Add in 2 hours of videoing, another hour at least of editing. Writing the post is another hour... So that's 12 hours. $9. I think that's 1 cent an minute.
Now... I remove all my delegations from all the communities and newbies I'm supporting (why? well of course so I can have more value in my upvote!) And now - I have a 5000 SP upvote.
That's around 8 cents now? I read a nice little post from a newbie... takes me a minute. upvote them at 100%.
They get 4 cents, I get 4 cents. sounds perfect. lol I mean - most newbies barely make 2 cents on their posts. This sounds likes it is AMAZING for the whole community! My husband doesn't yell at me for spending all my time writing posts and making pennies... I get to support all these amazing new newbies... and now I have lots more time to go swimming!
well..... this WAS total sarcasm. Now I might be seeing this as brilliant plan!!!! LOL You know the old saying... can't beat 'em.... join 'em! LOL
In all seriousness, I'd rather give my Fireflies chapters away for free to interested subscribers, than have someone make more money off me for adding nothing more to the mix. I will most likely halt that story on Steemit, and just give it out directly via a mailing list for anyone interested. It's a matter of principle really. Curation is fantastic, and I'm happy for it. But writing one well-developed post takes significantly more time than curating that same one well-developed post. It should be rewarded heavier. That's my opinion.
Unfortunately, here's what they don't tell you about Steem... Opinions are stake-weighted ;)
@crimsonclad - i'm about to comment to you too - but i'll be referencing this comment LOLOL (so you can find it)
I never thought I'd say this, but Voice Might actually be the better option. After all eos has some value to it. I am actually very eager to see how it will span out when it's officially launched, it may as well be the steemit killer if they go ahead with this 50/50 system, or perhaps creators will go to another platform and add value to it. Who Knows, Nobody wants to spend such amount of time only to have their rewards significantly reduced. It's madness.
Personally I might stop creating content daily and just invest my time else where.
I will definitely spend less time creating content.
Maybe I'll spend my time curating and commenting on newbie posts. Or...maybe not?? Why give them a false sense of hope? Maybe it's actually prolonging the inevitable to support newbies?
I guess this just makes you really take a look at your time as very valuable and see where it is best spent.
Will be thinking about that for a few days for sure...
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Your calculations forget one thing, @dreemsteem, which is that you can also strategically self-vote so that you receive some of those curation rewards. This is not gaming the system, it is using the system as it is designed for your benefit.
For all curators, this is the future; yes, curate manually but then add your favourite writers to an auto-voter and start to earn the long term rewards of your earlier efforts. This may not have been your original plan but it is a good plan - the best plan on this blockchain with these rules.
;-) Take care
You know that they want people to stop self-voting right? LOL and they are encouraging the use of the free downvotes so that people can remove the rewards from people who self-vote.
downvotes aren't even free yet - and people are doing this (one of the commenters on my posts this week is doing this TO earn more rewards and its getting punished)
i'm not saying that self-voting is good or bad. I think if its a good comment - then self-vote! but guess what - we all have the ability to self-vote bad comments too.
and that's where downvoting comes in. which WILL be abused and will NOT be used on whales out of fear of retribution.
see how this is not a good system? its set up to fear whales, and so they win.
whales are not bad!!!!
whales are awesome.
but bad whales are REALLY bad. LOL
you know what? let me restate that. greedy steemians are really bad. across all the classes.
so i did think of what you said - but i think there will be the downvote police who are busy looking in your wallets and seeing how to take what you have so they can justify "redistributing" the rewards. ....messy.
One other thing. lol. Curators do not automatically get 50% of their upvote, just as now there is no guarantee of 25% return. the curation algorithm itself is not being messed with, just that the curation pool will be double the size. Hence strategic voting will still count to get larger curation rewards.
not entirely correct... curation is stake based.
when a whale votes - they take the lions share of that curation pool on your post.
so when they upvote themselves - they get 75% and then the majority of that 25% curation too.
change it to 50/50 and its the exact same for whales. this does not halt bad behavior by whales - it gives the same result for them while punishing smaller accounts who cannot compete with the large stake based votes.
i can explain more if you like when i get home? we can continue the discussion :)
Exactly.
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@imealien I agree!!! 👍
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@notconvinced
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Thank you for writing this post
In any complex system there will be always be disagreements specially in the early days. Our STEEM is no different
Bitcoin had few different hard forks
ETH had one
Monera had many
I was spend almost 17 hours a day for 7 months building Dtube community until I got distracted 70% steemit inc layover where I offered ned to that I could happily work for them for free for 2 years.
I really don't want to get distracted by HF21 because my vision of $7.77 with STEEM with PushBook Startup needs all of me
Sorry I'm getting back to building STEEM PushBook
Thanks for visiting! And I'm glad you can keep your focus @nathanmars! I hope that all that you're doing is not for naught!!! Hope that we eventually have a platform where you can bring your amazing stamina to... and reap the rewards of your hard work !!
Posted using Partiko Android
You make your own luck if you stay at it long enough
True entrepreneurs don’t fail because they stay at it
True entrepreneurs never give up...but they know exactly when they are being given a raw deal.
I am not giving up in the least...it's not my style. But I'm not going to have 33% taken from my rewards and handed to whales and thank them for it.
It's wrong. Period. And everyone knows it.
And they should PULL it from the proposal. Because the people have spoken.
Posted using Partiko Android
True, @nathanmars and @dreemsteem, but the ability to articulate a problem is also part of finding a solution - which may be a personal one rather than a community one - and that means "staying at it" but perhaps on a different road than at the start.
Changes in the economy, whether cryptoeconomy or real life, may warrant a change in plans.
Like I hinted in other comments, and expanded in my articles (today and a few months ago (tho few ever listened)) there are ways to make more money and have fun doing it - just different methodology ;-)
it requires a discussion that they seem unwilling to have.
it's full speed ahead - take it or leave it.
i don't appreciate that mentality and find it disrespectful of all the people who poured their time, money, and energy here. not just the whales. we all did, across the classes.
I used to have fun here - and it had nothing to do with money.
still doesn't! LOL has to do with respect!!! :)
Yes, I think many commented at the time that the P in EIP should have been Plan rather than Proposal (as it wasn't a proposal under discussion.)
Thing is, the ideas in EIP have been promoted for months, maybe even a year or more - it hasn't improved but it knocked down the door - albeit a steem door.
@bossel
Thanks for the tag @fionasfavourites and great post @dreemsteem but I'm not going to mince my words here.
HF20 was dog shit for new users. Way to stop anyone with a new account being able to do ANYTHING without a delegation of at least 100SP to make it usable.
HF21 proposals - premium bull shit (yes, I upgraded the shit to the highest of the high). Content creators don't exactly get big rewards as it stands and now with SPS taking 10% away from the rewards pool, the curation rewards slashing another 25% away and this convergent linear gobbledegook will mean that anyone who doesn't get more than 12STEEM on their post payouts could be 33% worse off.
Remind me again why content creators should stay on this platform should HF21 go ahead and hope to make anything substantial?
Content creators may as well post their content elsewhere and just set up steem auto to follow the big curation trails and get maximum return for curation for absolutely no effort whatsoever.
I'd even be "happy" with 2/3 author 1/3 curator but 75/25 is actually pretty good. Whales would get their "money" back after 4 x 100% upvotes each day which is not an inconsiderate amount - and curation doesn't cost them anything, it's literally clicking the up button if you like the article!
We all know what the solution is.
Flick the switch and turn off bid bots.
If that can't be done then for sure, the next best solution is to give manual curation initiatives (e.g. curie, helpie, c-squared etc) the backing of these bid bot accounts (which take up >30% of the rewards pool) so that the trending feed is filled with varied content that can give people both inside and outside of steem something to look forward to rather than seeing the same people posting over again or steemcentric apps which mean nothing to anyone outside of steem.
That's my 2 cents (or is it 1 cent now that the curation is 50/50 :) )
@nickyhavey I knew I could count on you. Here is the follow up post from @dreemsteem which I shall read properly when I am at my desk in a few hours (it's 05:51...)
https://partiko.app/@dreemsteem/now-you-can-see-the-numbers
Posted using Partiko Android
Yes I just read the article but I've read a few that show the numbers and it all kinda paints the same picture.
Author rewards are getting wrecked, curators are getting doubled.
I can't say I disagree with your closing sentence to bengy either. We probably joined this platform a little too late as our accounts aren't worth too much hey.
Posted using Partiko Android
I joined early but grew mostly by sweat equity. So it took time.
I just recently became a dolphin and was super proud of the accomplishment.
Eh. Comme ci, comme ca.
I'm sure this won't be the last mistake that's made in a hard fork. I'm surprised we crawled past HF20, but we did. Barely.
Posted using Partiko Android
What is sweat equity? Not come across that term before.
Congratulations on the dolphin status, it's something I may get to if I stick around and don't get as hard fucked by the hard fork as I'm being initially lead to believe.
And the fact we barely made it past HF20 should sound alarm signals about these proposals for HF21 but I don't know what it will take for these "decision makers" to do the things I mentioned in my first comment seeing as that's the feedback of many authors I've spoken to.
Posted using Partiko Android
Oh sweat equity means the time you invested vs money you've invested
I think i probably have invested about $600 towards my dolphin status?
The rest was all through post payouts!!!!
I sure hope you're right too. It makes.me sad that people who have just come in the last year never got to see how AMAZING this place was at one time
They've just been hit harder and harder since HF20.
Too bad ...cuz I can tell you...before that!? There was nonsense, for sure!!! There ALWAYS will be drama lol. You can never get rid of people who like to ruin it for everyone...but at least you could just circle around your tribe and ignore the riff raff, and have a blast!
It's not the same anymore... Greed has a way of permeating everything.
Posted using Partiko Android
You're right about greed and you do really have to turn a blind eye to some shenanigans but it's made increasingly difficult with each change that occurs. Just stick with communities you have joined and take it from there.
Hf21 is confirmed to already be happening now so it looks like the preparations need to start happening for people like us. Firstly, pull back any delegations you have to keep your account SP as much as possible so you can get more curation rewards.
Second, get as many posts out now before HF21 so you maximise author payouts.
I haven't invested any money into steem, just transferred some earnings from other sites so I guess my sweat equity is 100% lol.
You're right about greed and you do really have to turn a blind eye to some shenanigans but it's made increasingly difficult with each change that occurs.
Hf21 is confirmed to already be happening now so it looks like the preparations
Posted using Partiko Android
Yup...so I am preparing on my side too. We all need preparations! :)
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Exactly..I was the founder of a community that was almost 75% newbies because we sought out and helped them, one at a time.
Before HF20, our retention rate was 75%? As compared to steemits of 9%... So we were doing something very right.
After HF20? The place slowly became a ghost town. It is slowly helping one Steemian at a time again, but I wonder if it will ever see those amazing retention rates again...
I'm a bit disillusioned with these changes "for the community" that only help the few.
Sickened really. But...I don't think anyone is listening to us 🙃
Posted using Partiko Android
75% is an amazing effort on retention, well done for that. Sorry you got hard fucked as well by HF20.
I'd say the place quickly became a ghost town after that as noone could post or saw the awful quality content on trending and thought "eff that, I'm leaving". Don't blame them. I'd do the same if my motivations were just about earning money but I wanted to improve my writing skills by joining this (initial) blogging platform and meet like minded people that I couldn't find on fb or Twitter so I'll be sticking around... But only if the communities do.
It seems like there are enough dapps around to keep me on here like travelfeed, dsound, powerhousecreatives, actifit.
The minute you get in the cross hairs of those that do listen, brace yourself for flags as that's what happened to me when I started being vocal about bid bots.
Decentralisation hey... Doesn't work with people. End of. You need a set of guidelines for the community to follow. Anarchy is not a good way to progress as we have seen on multiple occasions.
Posted using Partiko Android
75% retention is freaking amazing!!!! We were so proud!!!
And our community was EVERYWHERE because a huge principle for us was.. support, comment, enjoy!!!
It wasnt about the money .. until they made it about the money.
But look!!! Now we have a scalable chain!!!! Woo hoooo ....we just have to wait for the people to come rushing in now.
Still waiting...
Oops.
Posted using Partiko Android
Agreed 100%
Makes only rich richer and drives new users and middle class users away.
But they don't want to hear our voices.
But they will hear when the steem price goes down more and more..
But, then it's to late..
HF21 and downvote pool is not social, it's the opposite.
Steem is getting more and more a testing platform for dapps and tokens.
Have a nice day
Tom
@zanoni
Thanks for visiting Tom!!! I wish it were under different circumstances, to be sure.
I agree with you and after being here since Nov 2016... It really saddens me that so many of the higher ups can vote for this with a straight face
But...you're right.
We don't matter.
Sadly, it's proven in this vote.
Posted using Partiko Android
But my hope is Voice coming soon, it will be a game changer and maybe the biggest problem for Steem..
Who laughs at least, laughs best
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@jaynie
I really think this is going to make the whole bus go backwards if it gets implemented.
I think you and me and everyone here who is sickened by this..... Are 100% CORRECT.
but take a look at the people who will benefit ... And then notice how they are the ones all for it....and Voting on it.
our voices no longer matter. Hmmm did they ever?
Removing votes will not make a difference to them... But as soon as I know definitively who is voting for this, I will be giving my votes to those in opposition, on principle. I don't care if they "feel" the lack of my vote.
Representatives should be representing the people who voted for them and it seems like a LOT of people aren't feeling represented.
Posted using Partiko Android
Let's get our terminology right, this is a TAX ON CREATORS.
A decrease in creator rewards and an increase in curation rewards will destroy Steem's vision of being a chain that pays creators and will turn it into yet another ROI staking token.
I dont want this libertarian dream to turn into tezos2.0 just because stakeholders want greater ROI.
Also: the WPS has no cap, meaning ste can funnel into it indefinitely without stopping, meaning that in the event of a development drought or gridlock, funds will keep stacking up, effectively being inflation for inflation's sake.
Also, They propose BURNING EXCESS TAX MONEY, as a means of handling a bloated treasury. Burning tax dollars is chain suicide, who the hell would agree to burning their hard earned tax dollars?
The WPS needs 2 things to be successful
1 - a hard cap on size.
2 - a tax refund for creators who have contributed over a certain amount to the treasury.
Deal with excess funds by REFUNDING THEM, not burning them.
In its current state, I vote NO on HF20
Posted using Partiko Android
so much here - i've used your words in a few other comments!!! thanks for your interaction!!
I'm interested to know what will happen when all these content creators leave?
((She sighs))
I think we know exactly what will happen...and that's why I sigh along with you.
Posted using Partiko Android
@bigtakosensei
Posted using Partiko iOS
we'll see what happens.. just going for the ride.. really have no say... :)
well, if you'd like to know.
In the last 30 days, you made 2.62 SP on curation rewards.
In the last 30 days, you made 39.15 SP on author rewards.
What they are proposing is, changing the curation rewards to 50% instead of 25%
so.... if you continued what you are doing now, that would jump up to 5.24 SP for curation rewards.
and your author rewards would drop by 33%. which is 25.839.
They are hoping that this new proposal will get rid of the bad guys, and lift all the good guys.
That has really worked well in the past so I'm sure it will work well now! (sarcasm lol)
(by the way - where your author rewards are getting diverted to? large accounts who hold the majority of the stake. When they upvote - now they will double their curation rewards just like you. But yours is doubling from 2.6 to 5.2? Theirs is doubling from 3000 to 6000 -that is ONE example. but you can check the chart and see exactly what that looks like)
but happy days for all :)
I hope that you continue to enjoy the ride. I truly do. Some people aren't really aware of all this and they are happy! I hope that joy follows you Miss @rebeccabe! :)
well that's no good...lol..guess I will start self upvoting :)
Hope that gives a little back to ya!! 😊
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!SHADE 2
Thanks for sharing on Pimp Your Post Thursday
Congratulations @dreemsteem!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
@derekrichardson
@wonderwop
Posted using Partiko Android
Agreed. Let the 50/50 rewards system play out on Palnet for a while and see how it goes. Then, make the case for it being implemented here.
Posted using Partiko iOS
@clixmoney
@fredkese
I honestly believe the 50/50 split isn't necessary now or ever, but I doubt if my voice makes any difference
Your voice matters to me.
And to many others!!
It just doesn't matter to the majority making the decisions
🙃
Posted using Partiko Android
Lol, just as bad
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Hmmm yes. 🤔 Lol
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😑
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@mariannewest
Adding my name for the zero value it’s worth! Hugs to you and thank you for this post that really lays it out.
Oh I missed this!!!
I feel the same way... Why bother adding our voices to anything when it's clear they don't matter... Lol
But... We can always say we did what we felt was best and didn't remain silent.
That's something!
I've read countless hf21 related posts over the last few days trying to keep an open mind but nope, I don't see this hard fork(speciall having the "intended" results. I sure hope I'm wrong and that we'll laugh at this one day but as someone who's familiar with payouts right around the threshold, I'm highly doubtful and would be even more terrified if it wasn't for dapps such steemmonsters, actifit, busy etc that still dish out hope.
But the way, would such dapps benefit more post hf21? Well at least that would be a plus as they deserve it, though I assume they'd also lose some users who'd just be fed up with the system.
I get that changes need to be made and probably a lot of them. But making them all at the expense of mostly newbies and small accounts, and at the same time is just too drastic, potentially leading to a mass exodus. I've been told that the steem ecosystem is just like a reflection of the real World and really, what did I expect? The rich shall get richer, so was written in stone.
Anyways, @ange.nkuru
I completely agree. Why so much so fast? Why such a rush to burn the city down? It reminds me when a boss wants to fire you, but can't... So they make it REALLY hard for you to stay, so that you quit.
I'm not a quitter, but I'm also not a masochist.
If they want us to leave, they're making it very obvious that they're holding all the cards and can do whatever they want.... And we can take it or leave it.
Posted using Partiko Android
I completely agree. Why so much so fast? Why such a rush to burn the city down? It reminds me when a boss wants to fire you, but can't... So they make it REALLY hard for you to stay, so that you quit.
I'm not a quitter, but I'm also not a masochist.
If they want us to leave, they're making it very obvious that they're holding all the cards and can do whatever they want.... And we can take it or leave it.
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@dkkarolien
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@davedickeyyall
I had missed this post completely. Glad I see it in time, though, because I totally agree
I know exactly why we agree.... Because our hearts have always been the same regarding community, newbies and the poor decisions regarding their sustainability.
Sad to tell you that the next three posts of mine only get progressively sad to me.
It's been wonderful working alongside you (even though we didn't interact a lot!!!) But we were on the same mission to help steem from.the bottom up
I hope you have such good fortune in fighting the good fight, my friend!!!
Warmest wishes,
Dreemie
I completely agree. If this goes through at 75/25 we will lose. I understand they are trying to fix a few things, but this one will not help. If it foes through, not only will those who care about newbies find themselves scrambling to find delegation but they will be trying to come up with more ways to reward them so they will get a little more.
This however means that the new people will only see less of those rewards. This is a horrible shame to penalize those who we have been begging to come join. Those i have helped and encouraged to join in the past have almost all quit because it does not worth their time and efforts; now with HF21 they are all saying they will delete their accounts. It is a shame really that it is coming to this.
Thank you for speaking out @dreemsteem
Ren
@medro-martin